Turning a hookup into a relationship

[SilverLining]

Hello all! I could really use some advice. I have been sleeping with this guy for a few months now. He is 35 and I am 31. He is a stereotypical computer nerd, shy, a bit awkward, socially conscious, and a man of few words. While he isn't completely unattractive, he is slightly lower than average. In contrast, I'm bubbly, social, witty, affectionate, and above average attractiveness. I'm not trying to insult him, only trying to give a general idea of the two of us. We are both Americans living in Japan.

 

We had been on several dates and I let him know that while I truly enjoyed his company I just wasn't feeling sparks. He agreed that he also just wasn't feeling anything special but that he had no qualms about friendship. Later, I found out he was a virgin, and I suggested that we come to some arrangement. At first he would just come over and we would have sex. We had a few situations - he gets too excited and we had trouble actually having sex sometimes, I get affectionate afterward and he would worry I was developing feelings for him. Eventually things seemed to even out.

 

We started going out to eat once a week and then coming back to my place. I have realized that I am starting to fall for him. He's a complete puzzle to me and unlike a lot of other guys, I haven't been able to wrap him around my finger. But I can't determine if he does like me or not. He seemed so adamant about my not developing feelings for him, and on one occasion I asked him why he didn't have feelings for me and he said that it was just one of those things and he didn't know. However, the last few times we have been out, he seemed a bit different. He started gazing at me a bit across the table, laughing at more of my jokes, started taking his glasses off while he was talking to me (which another has done, when he wanted to seem more attractive). He has seemed to enjoy pleasuring me more, he tries new things and sex has become really amazing. This last time, he agreed to stay the night which he never does, because he has trouble sleeping at my place. He never compliments me really, but this last time he told me that he thought I was very good-looking and that he notices that a lot of guys stare at me while we are out. And finally, he has started to cuddle with me a little after sex, but this time, after we had sex the second time, I went to spoon him which I've never done. After a little while I said I was probably disturbing him as he was trying to sleep, so I turned around to give him a little space. After a moment, he turned and spooned me. I was so shocked. And we spent most of the rest of the night that way. If I left the bed, he held me when I came back.

 

I don't know if he is developing feelings for me, getting a bit closer to me because we are having sex, or if he is trying to make me happy so I will keep having sex with him. He asked me about this other guy that I mentioned was moving to Japan, and if I had met up with him. I am not sure if he was making conversation, or if he was trying to assess my interest in said guy. I tease him about paying for my dinner when we go out, he says, well it isn't a date. But then when he held me last night, he heart was beating quickly and when I said it was probably because he was so close to me, he didn't say anything in response (he would normally deny such a comment). When we go out he usually says he should go to bed early, but when I ask him to come over, he smiles a bit and he comes. I don't know if he is not that interested in me emotionally, or if he is just completely clueless when it comes to dating. Either way, I do not know what to do. I am afraid to bring it up directly, because if he really does not like me, it might make him uncomfortable and scare him away.

 

Any advice for me?

[superb]

I think you should be up front and ask him how he is feeling. The more you speculate the more romantic the thoughts you have are going to be about the mystery relationship and you'll probably be upset if he doesn't feel how you do when you guys finally do have the conversation. Honesty is the best policy, I think. Good luck!

[PogoStick]

It's surprising to hear a woman attracted to a man like this, although you admit it took time to warm up. If you were in the US with more options would you be with someone else? How long will you be staying in Japan?

 

There's no way for us to know what he's thinking. The situation doesn't sound good. My best guess is he's afraid of being hurt. If you started pulling away or flat out leave he'll probably chase you.

 

I'm curious why you don't want more from a man? Someone who is emotionally available and competent. Don't you want a man who is secure and confident? Someone to make you feel like a woman?

 

And I'm guessing you don't find Japanese men attractive, right?

[candie13]

why would you ask him anything? If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

 

the question is what do you want? from him or with him? you seem to have the upper hand or be used to have the upper hand and this guy won't play by your rules. hence, you are intrigued. don't mistake this for love and most importantly, try not to play with him and his feelings, only because you can...

[MsSmurf]

OP, I get the impression that this guy is enjoying all of the new experiences with you. He was a virgin so not only is the sex new, but all of the intimacy that comes with it. He may just be trying it out to see how it feels since you're willing to offer it. If he told you that then you might stop being so forthcoming with him and it will all end so it's smarter for him to keep his mouth shut.

[SilverLining]

Wow, thank you for all the responses.

 

First of all, yes yes YES I would much rather be in a relationship. However, it is difficult to find someone compatible in Japan. I am uninterested in Japanese men and many of the foreign men come here and want to date Japanese girls. Now, these relationships ultimately are pretty difficult to maintain, and most guys either get married very quickly or they get very frustrated and move back home. I basically only have Western men who are open to any race, who have not left yet, or who do not find Japanese girls stimulating enough to date. Pretty small.

 

I am used to having the upper hand, I admit. I do enjoy being able to call the shots as long as I am dating someone who can also put his foot down. This guy can do that, and he is intelligent and interesting as well. Yes, he is not the type of guy that I would be dating if I were back in the states, but that doesn't really mean that much to me - I am here now. And many people end up dating guys they never thought that they would. It is worth mentioning that I am used to guys such as his 'type' falling for me. It sort of intrigues me more that he hasn't.

 

I agree that he may just be trying things out to see how it feels - including the intimacy. What makes me confused about it is that he is the kind of guy who has a LOT of self-control. He isn't easily excitable, he isn't the kind to go by his emotions. He is the kind of guy who would be capable of stopping a woman if he wasn't into it.

 

I think about this because I do date other guys here, though I am not sleeping with anyone else. And in each case I keep coming back to thinking about him - maybe it's the chase, maybe something else. And although he isn't really my 'type', which is to say, a muscle-bound handsome prepster, he does have other things to offer that I find interesting as well. And finally, even though he isn't that attractive, has a ton of hair EVERYWHERE, old smudged glasses, and a lack of fashion sense...I still find him sexy and I think about him after he leaves.

Edited January 28, 2013 by SilverLining

[SilverLining]

I am not exactly sure what I want. I would consider dating him exclusively, if I knew that he would be interested in that.

[Eternal Sunshine]

I am not exactly sure what I want. I would consider dating him exclusively, if I knew that he would be interested in that.

 

You need to be direct and tell him that.

[SilverLining]

I can't really be direct. He's kind of an...ITNJ guy. He's very in his head and he makes up rules for himself and he follows them. Basically he has some idea of the girl he wants to end up with. So, he is a computer nerd who wants to end up with a girl who he can talk about science with and ...I don't know...talk about computers with? And he isn't really interested in dating a former cheerleader with a bubbly personality. I know he thinks I'm attractive and I think he enjoys the fact that people look at me when we are out, but that is short term. Long term... I'm pretty sure he is sticking to his guns. Although I did tell him recently that I was getting attached to him and he smiled at that.

 

I think that he does have some feeling for me. He lets me put my arm through his, he lets me hold his hand, he is amused when I tease him. However, he gets exhausted with being social and apparently needs a lot of time to relax and be in his head. I just don't think he is going to recognize or be willing to have anything more with me.

[SilverLining]

Anyway, I can't be direct because if I lay everything out on the table, he will probably feel that he can't give me what I want and he will distance himself. But I do think that in the future something might happen if I don't push now and just let things occur. He seems to be ok with me making the first moves with a lot of things, though sexually he does make the first move now. And the last time we were together, after we fooled around he went right into cuddling me and doing things like stroking my arm and playing with my nightgown. So, maybe...

[TaraMaiden]

...So... basically, this just turned into a FWB....?

[Maneater]

Since you are opposed to bringing up the issue to him then you are just going to have to sit there and wait. A 35 yr old virgin is very very odd. I'm not so sure about this guy and I feel like you are just settling for him because there aren't many options for you in Japan.

 

Best of luck to you though.

[SilverLining]

It was always a FWB situation. But I would like it to be more.

 

It may be possible that I'm 'settling'. I don't know. I don't have many options here, but back home I had a lot of young guys who were not interested in dating either, just hooking up. Most guys my own age seem to be dating or married at this time.

 

I know a lot of guys here think that it's so easy for an attractive woman to get a guy. It isn't. It is easy to get laid, it's easy to get a date. But to get a guy that is interested in more than that, and to find someone that you are also attracted to and treats you well, is a lot harder. And I don't go for the most attractive guys, really. This guy in particular is sort of unattractive and he isn't someone that is so charming and witty...but he is confident, capable, smart, and a challenge. And so I have become interested. I dated someone similar who was more attractive and smart, but not confident, not as capable, and not a challenge. It's like night and day, really.

[Ninjainpajamas]

So you're basically some whining about some nerd that isn't quite falling for you because you've got so much to offer and used to being such a hot package that it's insulting, disturbing that this guy who's not even on your level isn't falling head over heals for you like the other idiots.

 

Therefore you see no reason to continue seeing him and attempting to find ways of injecting a more "serious emotional connection" by taking baby-steps instead of being too rash in order to prevent him from running away...therefore making you feel invalidated you couldn't get this big hairy nerd with ugly glasses and no fashion to fall for you?

 

Bravo...bravo ::claps for you::

 

So because you've got such a limited selection of men...this is apparently what you had to resort to?

 

Oh of course not!...I mean after all you do have some feelings for him and some emotional attachment....after all you don't just spoon ANYONE. Things are obviously getting very serious (sarcasm) and you're wondering if you're getting any closer to solve the little jigsaw puzzle out and crack the code so you can move on after he bores you?

 

CAN SOMEBODY ACTUALLY GIVE ME SOMETHING HARD AND DIFFERENT ON LS...I AM GETTING VERY BORED HERE!

 

Seriously...this relationship is stupid. You don't even like this guy. Because you're having sex and spending time with him you're developing "emotions" for him...woopdee doo, someone call the love police, this is breaking news!

 

This guy is such an introvert he probably doesn't know how to communicate or express his feelings, probably has some socially f@cked up issues since he was still a virgin at 35 and yet it "disturbs" you that you haven't won this genius over and turned his world inside out so you can tap into his emotions, you NEED to know you are tapping into him and making him feel a certain way...after all I'm betting that if you did it would have been easy to overlook him in the first place, but this obviously seems like uncharted and new waters for you to splash into the time being.

 

If you're wondering why I'm being so "mean"...I'm not being mean, I'm calling you out...because I think this has nothing to do with him and all this other nonsense. This is about you and your insecurity being in another country...not being a hot product anymore...and bitter over the fact you can't play the strings of this virgin nerd who therefore should obviously be in love with you. You're loving that he doesn't give you what you want...it's such a big challenge for you...so much that you obsess over the fine details and build yourself up to having these exaggerated emotions that you clearly do not...but I'm sure you have ways of justifying those too!

 

I call total BS and selfishness on your part...you've likely got some serious issues and the only reason you're in this is likely because you love chasing the carrot on a stick...whether you can admit that or not to yourself...commitment issues here.

 

You're playing the same damn "keep them at an arms distance" game with each other...this is only fun and interesting when it's like this, once you get to know, and see the real people you really are...you're going to realize you have nothing in common and are completely incompatible.

[SilverLining]

Hmm. Well thank you for your point of view. To respond. It isn't that I don't think this guy is on my 'level'. I think he is quite different from what I am used to. I think he has things to offer. And, it isn't that I am insulted he doesn't like me. It is that I like him, and I am not sure how to go about this situation, because I do not know how to reach someone like him. I've had FWB situations before and I have always been able to keep some distance.

 

I don't know where you get the idea that I don't want to continue seeing him and that I don't want to do some 'baby steps'. This is why I don't want to be so direct. I think that he needs baby steps to handle something like this. I am not so clueless as to think he doesn't KNOW I like him. But by being direct, I will force him to make a decision that I don't think he feels comfortable making at this time. I DO want to continue seeing him. I want to spend all my time with him. I don't ever want him to leave! And I think about him constantly until the time that I DO see him again.

 

Ninja, I can very well understand why you are coming at me from the angle that you are. I have seen some women and men do this very thing. I do not think this is a situation where I would 'tire' of the guy. I genuinely like him. I have talked with him about what would make him more comfortable and I have been completely putting aside my own preferences because I understand that this is completely new to him.

 

Am I selfish? Sure, I'm sure on some level I am. Is part of the reason I am attracted to him the 'challenge'? Sure. I wouldn't dispute that. But I have never been a girl who prefers the challenge and the thrill of the new. I want to get to know him, I want to know everything about him. The fact that I have less options, well that has made me take someone more seriously, that I might not otherwise. And what is wrong with that? That doesn't negate the fact that he is a worthwhile person.

 

And yes, we may be completely incompatible. That doesn't mean I wouldn't want to try.

 

So thank you Ninja, I really do appreciate that you took the time to comment. I think you make a very valid point and it is something to think about. I don't want to hurt someone because I want to play a 'game'. I really don't think that this is the case, but I can very well see how it might seem this way, and I think it is worth saying that I should consider carefully my intentions.

[SilverLining]

And to clarify one other point. I do not have commitment issues. I mainly have longterm relationships, and my last one a few years ago, was an engagement to a guy I dated for 6 years. He fell out of love, but still respects me as a person and thought I was a good girlfriend - obviously since we were together for so long.

 

I'm not perfect, but I'm not this person you think I am, either.

[Emilia]

At first he would just come over and we would have sex. We had a few situations - he gets too excited and we had trouble actually having sex sometimes, I get affectionate afterward and he would worry I was developing feelings for him. Eventually things seemed to even out.

 

[...]

 

I tease him about paying for my dinner when we go out, he says, well it isn't a date. But then when he held me last night, he heart was beating quickly and when I said it was probably because he was so close to me, he didn't say anything in response (he would normally deny such a comment). When we go out he usually says he should go to bed early, but when I ask him to come over, he smiles a bit and he comes. I don't know if he is not that interested in me emotionally, or if he is just completely clueless when it comes to dating. Either way, I do not know what to do. I am afraid to bring it up directly, because if he really does not like me, it might make him uncomfortable and scare him away.

 

Any advice for me?

 

Christ, why on earth do you bother. Clearly the guy is some kind of a whack job. I agree with Ninja. would you bother if you were in a country with more options? I'm guessing you don't like Japanese guys, that's the trouble living somewhere when you don't like the local population much, you have to rely on slim pickings from the ex pats.

 

Probably leaving Japan would be my advice.

[FitChick]

I think you should tell him exactly what you told us. Do you really want a man who is afraid of having a real girlfriend instead of a blow up doll? If he runs off, your problem is solved. I actually think he likes you but is clueless as to how to proceed and fears getting hurt. Your being his first makes him more attached to you.

 

However, I worry that once you two go back to the US you might dump him because you will have better options.

[Talak7]

He probably likes you but thinks that being mean or not liking you is supposed to make you like him more? I dunno - He sounds just ignorant/naive, not crazy.

 

You might have to just be blunt on how you feel and then just take it or leave it.

 

日本語分る？

[Eternal Sunshine]

Ninja is being super mean. It's hot

 

OP, I think that you come across as not genuine because:

 

1) you keep going on about how unattractive he is and how attractive you are.

 

2) you claim that one of the main things of why you want him is because he is a challenge. What happens once you got him?

 

3) you admit to having few dating options where you currently are.

 

4) you claim that he is very confident, yet he was a 35 yo virgin. It doesn't compute. In today's society, staying a virgin until you are 35 (for non-religious reasons) suggests a serious problem. Often severe shyness and social anxiety.

 

Don't lead him on if you don't mean it.