My MM is like a phantom limb.

[sami]

What did you read before ? All I'm telling you is: YOu are not getting anywhere in this relationship. You cannot share anything other than those few stolen moments. That is it.

[tokyo]

I made a post yesterday and it made me feel a bit guilty, because I later discovered this is the forum for OW/OM and it didn´t seem to be appropiate. I tried to delete it, didn´t work out, now I only have "m" written on it.

 

I´ve changed my mind now. I personally don´t understand people who are willing to put themselves in such a helpless position to run after a married man or a married woman. It´s an illusion to believe that they will leave their spouses, and if they did - would you really like to feel responsible to have messed up a matrimony? That their kids will miss one parent, because of you? That you hurt someone else´s feelings, because you *feel* you´ve found the love of your life? These are people who made vows, you don´t go and marry for fun, so Ladies and Gentlemen, what do you expect? Do you expect those people to give up their homes, wifes, little kids for you? Risk their reputation? Risk to get criticized by their family and friends for having abandoned their family? Those people you adore are lying to someone who trusts them and cares for them. Do you really think they are such lovable people? They love you, but go home to their wifes and husbands. Are they such responsible people who care so much about their loved ones and who feel truly bound to their vows and that´s why they can´t leave them for you? Did those vows say:"Even though I´ll stay with you in good times and bad times, I´m allowed to cheat on you? I´m allowed to hurt you?" Wake up and don´t lose your time with this crap. They don´t want to leave. Acutally, I don´t even think it´s the vows that prevent them from leaving, they just don´t want to. Why make a decision if you can keep the cake and eat it? Why sleeping with one woman if you can have two? Why give up security AND excitement? You should love yourself more and have more common sense.

 

KissMyTiara, get out of this relationship and find someone real and not a phantom.

 

Sinner, I loved what you said.

[sinner]

No way in hell I'm going back to get an LLM

 

That's why I suggested speed dating!

 

 

Sinner, I loved what you said.

 

 

Thank-you, kooky. Your points are well made. What strikes me about affairs , and the people who engage in them, is that all these powerfully compelling arguments are most often unavailing. I suspect that very, very few people are ever talked out of having, or continuing, an affair.

 

And all kinds of people have affairs: smart, successful, well-adjusted, rational people. I blame love, which is the most subversive, mind splattering and will shattering state of being. If affairs were only about sex, they would be much less devastating and long lasting. When love enters the affair narrative, the affair goes on steroids. Then the uber-affair lasts longer, is felt much more intensely and collapses with much greater devastating impact.

 

Affairs become magnum when love hits.

[tokyo]

We all would love to be the exception that defies the rule and defeats the odds - We will make it and our love will shine like the stars. Isn´t that what everybody wants?

 

Love touches your inner fears and hopes that´s why it´s not possible to stay completely rational and control your feelings, but I think you can to look for signs and be honest with yourself. That woman in Sinner´s story did not only have problems with making up the decision to leave, but she probably also has a very low self-esteem, the need for someone to lead her, lack of meaning in her life or whatever. If love becomes obsessive and desperate, it´s not only love involved, but one has projected a part of oneself in it and this makes it so hard to leave.

 

This is coming from someone who is pretty nuts for a guy and of course, it´s probably absolutely useless.

 

-- Sinner, is this your real foto?

[sinner]

Sinner, is this your real foto?

 

Unfortunately, yes. It was taken in March of this year upon my return from vacation.

[tokyo]

I was just curious.

[KissMyTiara]

He f-ing made me a CD on his home computer - a "serenade" of music that reminds him of me...the lyrics are all creepily right on point. I could almost cite to them as if they were caselaw.

 

What on earth? Is this just another "trick" up a MM's sleeve?

[sinner]

Is this just another "trick" up a MM's sleeve?

 

Your MM will do whatever it takes to maintain your sexual/emotional/romantic attraction for him--except leave his wife and family.

 

The MM gives his OW all that he can--sexually, emotionally, materially--except that which the OW wants most of all: His undivided, exclusive commitment to her.

 

That's why these asymmetric MM/OW affairs are so frustrating to the OW: The MM wines, dines and gifts her; romantically serenades her; makes wild, passionate love to her in exotic locales and settings (no boring marital bed, here); and tells her repeatedly that she is the greatest love of his life. What a high!

 

We all know what happens to highs--they become lows. The MM eventually leaves to go home to his wife and kids, and the OW is left in her sad, lonely apartment, sleeping alone. With just the memories, and the yearning. An affair is a bi-polar relationship.

 

Eventually, as time wears on, memories, and even love, are not enough. By then the affair is spent and the MM is either temporarily re-monogamous or involved in another affair.

 

And so it goes...

[tokyo]

The MM gives his OW all that he can--sexually, emotionally, materially--except that which the OW wants most of all: His undivided, exclusive commitment to her.

 

If he truly gave her all his emotions he would be dependent on her and I don´t think that´s the case with MM.

I don´t really think they are emotionally dependent.

[sinner]

I don´t really think they are emotionally dependent.

 

Married men in affairs are human: I suspect that many straying married men do become emotionally dependent on their OW. Not all, but many.

 

I suspect in kmt's case that her MM is very emotionally involved with her.

 

Again, I could be wrong.

[tokyo]

I suspect that many straying married men do become emotionally dependent on their OW.

And probably also dependent on their wives.... poor husbands

[tokyo]

Torn between two loves, must be terrible... I bet that causes him sleepless nights (if it´s not his wife or his lover

that keep him awake, ha, ha, ha...)

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by sinner

 

I suspect in kmt's case that her MM is very emotionally involved with her.

 

 

What makes you think so, Sinner? And what exactly do you mean by "emotional involvement"? Are we talking love-like feelings, or just the emotion of being who he's always wanted to be (which is what he is when we are together).

 

Another interesting note - In the past he has made comments about his W's complaints about how he never does enough, isn't enough, etc., that he is never able to rack up any "credits" with her, that's he's always in the negative. Despite this, he has also made a comment a few times to me about not needing any positive reinforcement from me, that he's used to negative reinforcement...that is, he thinks he's doing ok as long as he's not getting yelled at. But I can't not thank him, compliment him, etc. for the good things he does and is, because those things make me happy, ya know? When he takes a big risk for an evening together, or makes a special trip to see me when I'm in a different part of the state, I HAVE to thank him for that, acknowledge it, etc.

 

The reason I mention this is because I reeeeallllllyyyyy try NOT to talk about his W - I just don't want him thinking of her when we are together. BUT, little things like this makes me think there are more serious problems in his marriage than boredom and lack of sex. Do you agree?

 

BTW, he called my work voicemail at 4:10 a.m. this morning from the airport "just to say hi, good morning, and that I was thinking about you." He called my work phone instead of my cell because he didn't want to disturb me.

[Mr Spock]

Searching for validation in any form of a relationship is completely human, kissmytiara-I said in your other post, and I say it here, that you are moping. You are at the point where this relationship is agony-a weight around your heart.

 

If he truly loved you more than her, he would leave her.

 

You are sitting in front of the computer pouring out every little bit of contact, every detail of your times with MM because you are somehow hoping to see something in what you've written that recognizes that the relationship is going somewhere.

 

I don't think you're going to find it. I know, because I've been there.

 

 

You'll know it's time to move on when the idea of ending, although painful, and being free of this crap outweighs what you're getting from your MM. Which is tidbits, compared to his family. Because you are now in the situation you're in, I would say it's time to end it. If it didn't hurt you so much I'd say you could get away with continuing as things were, but you can't.

[sinner]

Some people who have affairs actually fall in love with their affair partner. Even the conniving, craven, and cold hearted MM sometimes falls in love with his OW. I simply assumed that your MM had powerful feelings for you, and you for him. It's rarely only about sex--especially when the affair continues for months and years.

 

Love, though, is very complicating. Love raises the stakes and makes the affair much stickier. I wouldn't be surprised if you both were falling in love with one another. I just hope you're wearing your parachute: the free-fall is a long one.

[KissMyTiara]

He asked whether or not he needed to "make an executive decision" so that my feelings wouldn't get hurt (i.e., stop seeing me). I LIED and said no, that I was fine, that I would make that decision on my own if I sensed myself getting into a position where my heart was beyond my control. Argh. I'm so stupid.

[KissMyTiara]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

Searching for validation in any form of a relationship is completely human, kissmytiara-I said in your other post, and I say it here, that you are moping. You are at the point where this relationship is agony-a weight around your heart.

 

 

You'll know it's time to move on when the idea of ending, although painful, and being free of this crap outweighs what you're getting from your MM. Which is tidbits, compared to his family. Because you are now in the situation you're in, I would say it's time to end it. If it didn't hurt you so much I'd say you could get away with continuing as things were, but you can't.

 

 

I am in what I am going to call the "numb phase." I am calling it a phase, because I am praying that is exactly what it is, and that it will pass, and this whole thing will be behind me. Perhaps it's the thrill of the chase wearing off, perhaps it's the realization that he is someone that will never really "be" with me and only me, perhaps it is the above comment that he made (just shoving it in my face that he does not really want me, for me's sake), or perhaps its all the single guys out there that I meet and see on a daily basis...but whatever it is, I feel numb towards the status of my relationship with my MM. I care about him a great deal, perhaps it is love, I don't know, but the tears have stopped flowing.

 

Ok, so as I sit here, I think I labeled my current state incorrectly. Perhaps it's not "numb" so much as just acceptance. I am happy with the way things are in my life. I have a great career, great friends and family, an active social life, I'm ridiculously healthy, etc...and all of this is separate and apart from the fantastically orgasmic sex that I get with my MM.

 

That said, I am still attached. I ache when the weekends arrive, because I don't get to talk to or see him on Sat and Sun. As of right now, I'm still ok, still accepting. But if I stay home alone, nothing to do but watch sappy movies, I'll be living on this site for the entire weekend.

[sinner]

Janis J. said it best: "Love is like a ball and chain." And honey, you got that ball and chain wrapped around your pretty body so tightly that you can hardly breathe, let alone move.

 

You have your illusions of balance and freedom--"great career, great friends and family, an active social life, I'm ridiculously healthy, etc."--but they're only illusions of self-mastery. The thing is--your life already out of whack along with your brain chemistry, which has been altered as you achieve orgasm after orgasm in this, the lust/ attachment stages of your love affair.

 

Whether it's hormones, acculturation, atavistic impulses, etc., you want your man all to yourself right now. But that you can't have. Nine times out of ten one only borrows another person's spouse.

 

The MM or MW is like a library book--eventually you have to return him or her because the fines (emotional costs) exceed the benefits (somebody to love who loves you in return).

 

Your heart is not ready to return this book:it's too early in the game. That will come later when the glow has faded ever so slightly, the excitement has levelled-off and the affair has grown increasingly inconvenient to you and/or your MM. By then, though, you'll be in real deep.

 

Most likely, kiss, there will be no happy endings for you: Just one long, lonely hallelujah at relationship's end. Disentangling from a burned-out long term love affair is no picnic. I just hope the sex is fantastic.

[KissMyTiara]

Sinner ~ I enjoyed your library metaphor. My book's not past due yet, but I can see the deadline approaching. Do librarians grant extensions the same way I do everyday?

 

And, Jesus, yes, the sex is fantastic!! I cannot even put into words how amazing it is with him - pushes all the right buttons. I feel sorry for the next guy who comes into my life, bc there's going to be some huge comparison there! I know I'll find it again though - just as I did after a law school boyfriend who was only good for the exact same thing (he too, was FANTASTIC!, and... single....perhaps I shoulda stuck with him instead ).

 

That said, other than my sex/romantic life, why do you think my life is all out of whack?

[sinner]

kiss, affair sex is to marital sex as perfectly chilled White Star champagne is to a warm Diet Coke. There just isn't any comparison. In fact, post-affair lovers (and that includes the betrayed spouse) always pale in contrast to the white heat memories of all those wild trysts in exotic, semi-public settings.

 

Your affair, long after its end, will maintain a steady grip on your sexual imagination. Everything comes with a cost.

[KissMyTiara]

Sinner -

 

Yes, we have had sex in some exotic, semi-public places...but the majority of the time, it's in a "normal" place, at a "normal" time, under seemingly "normal" circumstances, etc. (meaning, if he weren't married, our sex life would be just like that of any other dating couple). And remember, I was involved with MM before I even knew he was married, and even then, when it was "normal" it was FANTASTIC - that much hasn't changed. Objectively speaking, our bodies are perfect for each other. Our hearts, minds, and lives - well, of course, that's another story.

[sinner]

Our bodies often betray us. What can I say: Bad people can have great sex.

 

Biology is destiny:the road to Hell is paved with great sex.

 

I hope your weekend is going well (or at least not badly).

[KissMyTiara]

Sinner - I LOVE your quote, but you left off the best line - "You're like my favorite damn disease." Interestingly, I put that song on a CD that I made for my MM (after he made me that one, remember?), but I followed it by "Too Damn Good." (Hotel reference, flying me to see him, etc...seemed too apropos).

 

And are you implying that I am a bad person, or just him?

 

Weekend is going well. It's like 2:00 in the morning for me here, can't sleep...I didn't really allow myself to get used to the time difference (been out and about, taking the tube all about, etc.). I'm thinking about a quick jaunt over to Italy, but I'm worried I'll spiral into depression once I sence the romance . Thoughts?

[sinner]

If you're lucky you have, at some point in your life, a relationship where you and your lover are both struck dumb by desire, intoxicated by passion and crazed with lust. The Nickelback tune, "Figured You Out," brilliantly captures that all-Id time in a relationship where insane lust, aching physical need and untrammeled desire govern. It ain't nice, it ain't pretty and it ain't Hallmark card, but it's real in all passion's messiness and obsessive focus.

 

Isn't love grand?

 

I hope your enjoying yourself, kiss, in Italy while I prepare for a "fun" Federal Court of Appeals argument tomorrow. Some people have all the fun; others have to work.

[kiababy]

Sinner, how bizarre that you mentioned 'Figured You Out' - MM loves that song because it reminds him of us.....when he first played it for me chills went down my spine because it's true, right down to and including the line "....I like my hands around your neck.....".