Why are there no whiny women?

[JuneJulySeptember]

What would be good is if you could wrap your mind around the REALITY that "male attention" is not really that valued by most women.

 

Almost all of us, fat, thin, ugly, pretty, have experienced sexual attention from males. Many times, completely inappropriate and hurtful. Like when you are about 12 and your babysitter's husband gives you a kiss - using his tongue. Men old enough to be your dad pulling over in their cars to offer you a ride home when you're walking home from the school bus stop. Your friend's boyfriend putting his hand on your ass while you are out at a show with them. Maybe you think that this all must feel very great and affirming, but it does NOT. It gives a girl a very mixed up perception of her own sexuality AND of male sexuality. it makes some girls believe (as quite a few regular a**holes - sorry, I meant regular posters - around here love to reiterate) that their only value is "what's between her legs."

 

That doesn't feel any better to a girl / woman than it would feel to you to believe that your ONLY value is how much money you have in your wallet, or what level of prestige you have at your job.

 

Honest.

 

If you've ONLY gotten that kind of attention in your life, then come out and say it.

 

No decent, but unattractive guys have hit on you?

 

No attractive guys that you had a crush on had a crush on you too?

 

We're talking about affirmation of self attraction. If you don't have it, it's not an easy thing to deal with.

[somedude81]

I don't know many men who would see past the desperation in that type of approach. I also don't want to feel that someone had to lower their standards in order to date me.

You're not seeing things from the struggling man point of view.

 

I'd be ecstatic if a girl lowered her standards to date me. Hell I wouldn't even care if she told me "Hey somedude, I normally only go for the tall, good looking guys. But you're sweet and funny so I'll give you a shot."

 

That would be amazing.

[Anela]

You're not seeing things from the struggling man point of view.

 

I'd be ecstatic if a girl lowered her standards to date me. Hell I wouldn't even care if she told me "Hey somedude, I normally only go for the tall, good looking guys. But you're sweet and funny so I'll give you a shot."

 

That would be amazing.

 

No, I'm seeing it from a struggling woman's point of view.

 

If someone was actually attracted to me, that's one thing, but if they thought they had to lower their standards, what does that make me? I'm not going to beg someone to go out with me, and I know that when I've given off that vibe, it's turned men off - it would turn me off, coming from a man.

[somedude81]

No, I'm seeing it from a struggling woman's point of view.

 

If someone was actually attracted to me, that's one thing, but if they thought they had to lower their standards, what does that make me?

It means that they were not initially physically attracted to you.

 

So what?

 

It seems to be a common theme among women that they want their man to consider them the most beautiful women in the world.

 

I wouldn't care if my GF thought a million other guys were better looking than me. As long as she respected me and doesn't cheat, I'll be happy.

 

I know I'm only average in looks so I'm not going to ask for the impossible. By all means, lower your standards to date me.

 

I'm not going to beg someone to go out with me, and I know that when I've given off that vibe, it's turned men off - it would turn me off, coming from a man.

I'm not really talking about begging somebody. Hopefully the other person would see my other qualities and care less about not being physically attracted to me.

[tuxedo cat]

I'm not sure what it is but I've noticed men tend to be whinier in general, perhaps because they tend to externalize blame while women internalize more often. I've been shocked by some of the trivial things my boyfriends have whined about. Men are especially bad when they get sick; they can't seem to tolerate any sort of physical discomfort.

[Anela]

It means that they were not initially physically attracted to you.

 

So what?

 

It seems to be a common theme among women that they want their man to consider them the most beautiful women in the world.

 

I wouldn't care if my GF thought a million other guys were better looking than me. As long as she respected me and doesn't cheat, I'll be happy.

 

I know I'm only average in looks so I'm not going to ask for the impossible. By all means, lower your standards to date me.

 

I'm not really talking about begging somebody. Hopefully the other person would see my other qualities and care less about not being physically attracted to me.

 

I only understand standards in terms of cleanliness, politeness, etc. Not in terms of looks. I don't believe that someone who is considered gorgeous, is automatically better in all ways than the average person beside me. If I went out with someone, it would be because I liked something about them, so it wouldn't occur to me to even think that I'd lowered my standards, even if they weren't my usual "type".

[somedude81]

I only understand standards in terms of cleanliness, politeness, etc. Not in terms of looks. I don't believe that someone who is considered gorgeous, is automatically better in all ways than the average person beside me. If I went out with someone, it would be because I liked something about them, so it wouldn't occur to me to even think that I'd lowered my standards, even if they weren't my usual "type".

Then I believe you are different from most girls.

 

They would turn down guys based on looks alone, even if the guy met all their minimum criteria.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Yup, girls experience nothing but inappropriate sexual attraction from creeps. Good, decent guys never show interest, heaven forbid.

 

Why would you misconstrue what I wrote to translate to that? I certainly did not say, and do not believe, that most girls / women don't get sexual attention from good guys. What I said was that sexual attention is not necessarily highly valued because we experience it from all different places including inappropriate ones from a very young age.

 

Most of us know of a girl, or more than one, in high school or even middle school who was unattractive, socially outcast or both who would give blowjobs or whatever to guys. The guys would dis her mercilessly and publicly - the very guys who were availing themselves of her sexual favors. I'm sure everyone has seen this happen. It does not give any girl an idea that receiving sexual attention means a great deal.

 

On a much less dramatic note, most of us have been on the receiving end of sexual attention from a guy we really liked, only to find out that his only interest in us was sexual. So, there again, the great value you place on how "easy" it is for us to get sexual attention is really off base.

 

Of course most of us love to have sexual attention from men. It's just not super valuable, because it doesn't necessarily mean anything personal about us.

[somedude81]

Why would you misconstrue what I wrote to translate to that?

Because you only listed the negatives of getting attention as if you were trying to prove how bad it is to be a woman and that nothing good ever happens.

[tbf]

Ain't that the truth.

 

If it was possible, I would have had a few girlfriends by now.

Listening is also a virtue....

[Mme. Chaucer]

Because you only listed the negatives of getting attention as if you were trying to prove how bad it is to be a woman and that nothing good ever happens.

 

If you're not being deliberately obtuse, which I think you are, but anyway - you would know that ALL I was trying to do was illustrate why sexual attention does not carry such a high premium, is often suspect, and does not necessarily mean that things are "easy" if you are a woman instead of a man.

[somedude81]

Listening is also a virtue....

I'm actually a great listener.

If you're not being deliberately obtuse, which I think you are, but anyway - you would know that ALL I was trying to do was illustrate why sexual attention does not carry such a high premium, is often suspect, and does not necessarily mean that things are "easy" if you are a woman instead of a man.

From reading you posts, it seemed to me that you were just pointing out the bad things.

 

Anybody with half a brain would understand that with a lot of attention, there will be good and bad mixed in.

 

That good attention is what makes things easier.

 

Yes, as a man I don't have to deal with creepos hitting on me but I don't get positive attention either.

[Lonely Ronin]

 

Yes, as a man I don't have to deal with creepos hitting on me but I don't get positive attention either.

 

So you assume the good out weighs the bad?

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm actually a great listener.

 

No, you're not. You are completely stuffed with preconceived notions, to the point where you seem to not take in anything that does not confirm them.

 

That good attention is what makes things easier.

 

You have NO idea what is "easier" about being a woman than it is to be YOU, and your insistence that you DO know, and unwillingness to listen to anything different, illustrates one of the reasons why you do not get anywhere with women IRL.

 

Yes, as a man I don't have to deal with creepos hitting on me but I don't get positive attention either.

 

One more time - I'm not talking about "creepos hitting on me." I'm talking about being conditioned all our lives to not place a great deal of value on men wanting to have sex with us. We are not experiencing our side of sex as any easier than you guys are, no matter how much you, the OP and the rest of you want to insist that we are.

 

I know you're just going to argue. Clearly, your vast experience and understanding of women gives you a lot of authority about us.

[somedude81]

So you assume the good out weighs the bad?

Most definitley.

 

Even more so if the girl has had good relationships because a man approached her and did all the work.

 

Do note that I said relationships and not sex.

[fortyninethousand322]

I don't think women have it easier than men on the whole, both genders have their little crosses to carry. But, I do think it's pretty obvious that the average woman has it easier than some men do. Namely, people like SD and others who post here about their dating woes. At the same time, I'd say the average man has it easier than these guys do too.

[somedude81]

I don't think women have it easier than men on the whole, both genders have their little crosses to carry. But, I do think it's pretty obvious that the average woman has it easier than some men do. Namely, people like SD and others who post here about their dating woes. At the same time, I'd say the average man has it easier than these guys do too.

On the terms of difficulty level I see it like this

 

Very smooth men / celebrities

Hot girls

Average girls

Average men

Obese or ugly women

Somedudes

[Lonely Ronin]

Most definitley.

 

Even more so if the girl has had good relationships because a man approached her and did all the work.

 

Do note that I said relationships and not sex.

 

 

And this is the flaw in your logic, because a lot of women will disagree with you I think.

[somedude81]

And this is the flaw in your logic, because a lot of women will disagree with you I think.

I welcome any woman to do so

[JuneJulySeptember]

One more time - I'm not talking about "creepos hitting on me." I'm talking about being conditioned all our lives to not place a great deal of value on men wanting to have sex with us. We are not experiencing our side of sex as any easier than you guys are, no matter how much you, the OP and the rest of you want to insist that we are.

 

I know you're just going to argue. Clearly, your vast experience and understanding of women gives you a lot of authority about us.

 

I understand that. I also understand that men have genuinely found you attractive and wanted to be with you. And you've chosen some of those men and passed over others.

 

YOUR lack of understanding of men who have NEVER been made to feel attractive is just puzzling.

[Eternal Sunshine]

On the terms of difficulty level I see it like this

 

Very smooth men / celebrities

Hot girls

Average girls

Average men

Obese or ugly women

Somedudes

 

Didn't you say that you rejected obese/ugly women?

 

Therefore they should be below you on that list.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Most definitley.

 

Even more so if the girl has had good relationships because a man approached her and did all the work.

 

 

Haha. I guess since you have never been in a relationship you might get a pass for making such a ludicrous statement.

 

Approaching a person is a tiny, tiny drop in the giant bucket of give and take that is a relationship. Sure, it took an approach to get it started, but once that brief moment is passed is when the real "work" comes in.

 

Approaching someone is not necessarily easy, but it hardly qualifies as "work."

[somedude81]

Didn't you say that you rejected obese/ugly women?

 

Therefore they should be below you on that list.

I've rejected one ugly/obese woman. She's had more relationships than I have.

 

The average obese/ugly women has been a couple of relationships, while I've been in zero.

 

Once again, I'm talking about relationships and not sex.

[somedude81]

Haha. I guess since you have never been in a relationship you might get a pass for making such a ludicrous statement.

 

Approaching a person is a tiny, tiny drop in the giant bucket of give and take that is a relationship. Sure, it took an approach to get it started, but once that brief moment is passed is when the real "work" comes in.

 

Approaching someone is not necessarily easy, but it hardly qualifies as "work."

Said the woman who has never had to hunt.

 

You have no idea how difficult it is for some men.

[ThaWholigan]

Haha. I guess since you have never been in a relationship you might get a pass for making such a ludicrous statement.

 

Approaching a person is a tiny, tiny drop in the giant bucket of give and take that is a relationship. Sure, it took an approach to get it started, but once that brief moment is passed is when the real "work" comes in.

 

Approaching someone is not necessarily easy, but it hardly qualifies as "work."

And the fact that it is seen and perceived as "work" is a giant piece of the problem itself.