Addressing Marital Issues After an Affair

[Act Two]

To continue a discussion from a previous thread, I would love to hear input, especially from BS.

 

If you tried to reconcile your marriage after discovering an affair, what was your approach to working on other issues in the marriage? Did you find that it was too much to stomach to work on any issues in the marriage that the WS felt were problematic? Was that seen as blameshifting? Does enough time need to pass and true remorse need to be shown before these can be addressed?

 

This might not be applicable to those with relatively happy marriages with no real deal breakers in the relationship prior to the affair. I'm curious to hear all sides though.

 

I really feel that if a WS had problems with the marriage, but never tried to address them except with an affair, well then IMO it's just plain cowardly. I know I didn't do this in my marriage, BUT in still having an affair rather than divorcing or trying something else I still took the cowardly way out. The affair was, as Betrayed H says, dropping a nuke on the relationship. I think where I'm a little stuck right now is that while I'm working on my own issues, I still see the same deal breakers that make me not want to reconcile and confirm a mutual decision to divorce. I'm stuck because I have a lot of guilt about that and divorcing with children is VERY hard.

 

I'm wondering if because I can't get past the original issues, whether I have true remorse?

 

Thoughts and your experience appreciated.

[waterwoman]

Did you find that it was too much to stomach to work on any issues in the marriage that the WS felt were problematic? Was that seen as blameshifting? Does enough time need to pass and true remorse need to be shown before these can be addressed?

 

No. I was aware of the issues, on both sides, and was more than willing to address them. Regardless of time and remorse from WS.

 

... I still see the same deal breakers that make me not want to reconcile and confirm a mutual decision to divorce. I'm stuck because I have a lot of guilt about that and divorcing with children is VERY hard.

 

I'm wondering if because I can't get past the original issues, whether I have true remorse?

 

 

If you still won't be happy and he isn't fixing anything why would you want to stay with him? What does he say when you point this out?

[underwater2010]

The simple truth is that he had to admit what he did and truly feel sorry. I listened carefully to his excuses at first. Some of them had merit. He also learned some stuff that I was not forth coming about. As a BS I have addressed the issues the best I can at the moment. Money withstanding, things are much better. But it takes both spouses willing to do the work to have a true reconciliation.

 

I think the biggest shocker for him was the sex part. We had sex plenty during his affair, but I never initiated it. When he asked why, I compared it to having blue balls and trying to sleep after. In otherwords, I wasn't getting my needs met either.

 

How far out from DDay are you? Who cheated? And what are the things that are not being addressed?

[Spark1111]

Any good counselor realizes that you first have to deal with the infidelity before other issues can be addressed.

 

The house is on fire, so let's see if we can put the fire out before we deal with the sparks that preceded it.

 

If the infidelity is not dealt with, there may not be a marriage to save.

 

This can be very heated and painful, but it has to happen in that order.

 

And no matter what sparks preceded the blaze, the WS cannot blame those sparks, not in the beginning, for the choice to have an affair.

 

The WS has to own that they threw gasoline on those sparks, otherwise the BS may walk out of the session. I know I did.

 

The counselor can see who is owning their stuff, who is communicating well, and who is diflecting, blameshifting, and needing to "be right," and avoiding eye contact, reactive, defensive, etc.

 

But I will say this: There is NO perfect marriage, no marriage that cannot be improved, so the marriage is the client and both spouses may take a turn in the hotseat.

 

How we DO relationships is part and parcel of who we are and how we were raised.

 

I highly reccommend IC in addition to MC. The stronger YOU are personally, the stronger any relationship you choose to participate in will be.

 

I hope

[BetrayedH]

What resonated with me about your post was about how difficult it can be to work on restoring the marriage (the things that initially made you resentful) when you're trying to clean up from the nuke that was dropped via the affair. "Working on the marriage" was very hard for me as a BS because it felt like I was enabling blameshifting. I acknowledged that I had contributed to the marital problems and was working on them but it really was a day late and a dollar short for my wife. (Forgive the gender typing here), I think women are many times emotionally checked-out of a marriage before the affair begins. Then you add the fantasy affair and it really crystallizes resentment towards the BS. I can tell you that my WW and I did our best to multi-task (address both the affair and marital issues) but it's damn tough. My wife needed to see changes on my part but that's a tall order when I'm in the middle of being devastated and really not too interested in hearing anything that sounds like blameshifting. I think most BSs are willing to acknowledge their part but want it on the back burner as compared to the affair. But that leaves you in your situation where you needed the marital problems addressed so that you could emotionally reconnect.

 

Of course, in hindsight the best thing is for both parties to have the courage to discuss issues BEFORE they become resentful (especially before moving on to someone else). When there's an affair, one or both parties are conflict-avoidant and hindsight doesn't help. I just know that I wish my WW had found the courage to have the difficult conversations (even threaten separation/divorce if necessary) before she became irreversably resentful because when I found out about it, I made serious efforts to change every issue she raised (tried to quit smoking, lost weight, took a greater leadership role in the household). When she saw the changes I made to salvage our marriage, she said she felt stupid (her word) for not talking to me more directly. The affair never needed to happen. Sadly, it did happen and the result was that I was in too broken of a state to be as effective as she needed and she threw in the towel.

 

Just copy/pasting from the other thread.

[BetrayedH]

What BH said above^^^really sums it up.

 

Reconciliation is like walking through a landmine. It really is.

 

There are so many issues at play. For the BS it is the wrenching betrayal and the affair. For the WS, it might be guilt and shame for having an affair mixed with all the resentment that occurred pre-affair.

 

How does a couple handle the needs of both partners? It is really tough to do and why so many reconciliations fail because it is so tricky. How do you address the needs of the WS, because face it, blame-shifting seems so obvious here? But yet, the WS still has needs and concerns about the state of the marriage that need to be addressed. I think in the rush? to reconcile, the focus is put on the BS and their needs but where does that leave the WS?

 

It has to take both spouses really wanting to reconcile in order for it to have a chance and even then, the odds are still against reconciliation.

 

It is a tough spot to be in, that is for sure. Act2, thank you for sharing your thoughts from the wayward side.

 

Doing the same for Snow's response.

[Snowflower]

Assuming that the spouse who cheated was harboring a lot of resentment toward their spouse for things done/not done, said/not said, during the marriage...well, adding an affair into the mix just amps the resentment factor in the marriage about 100%!

 

Resentment kills intimacy and feelings of love (affair or no). Now instead of the WS-to-be resentment that needs to be dealt with, after mixing in an affair, the new BS has a ton of resentment to deal with. Gasoline was just poured on an already burning fire!

 

Again, it is tricky to tackle. I think the needs of the WS need to be heard as well though.

[Decorative]

My spouse cheated in a happy marriage. So it was not born out of a blameshift or resentment. Those came along later in his head as he rewrote marital history to justify his affair.

 

However- after the final DDay- he never blamed anyone but himself. At first in an overly dramatic fashion, then in a calm measured way.

 

That being said - it was six months of IC for him before I would even step in the MC room with him.

 

And we did discuss unhealthy dynamics in our marriage- mostly my attempts to handle everything and be the rock in everyone's life. And him being overbenefitted as a result.

 

But in all honesty- until he had a clear head and had begun a process of IC- MC would have failed.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Sorry...got carried away Maybe I should bold the real answer to your question below:

 

Originally she said it had nothing to do with me, and I was fine. I worked my tail off trying to figure drag the "why" out of her in counseling and when it came down to a lot of things I had done, I began implement changes in myself. That was a pretty difficult process. Unfortunately right about the time I had my self-improvement plan figured out and started rolling...I found out she had been lying for 3 months in counseling about what really happened (4 month affair instead of 1 night)..and I finally put my foot down about total NC(no contact) with OM. My ex's point of view is that I did almost nothing to change myself and selfishly put my issues first in the counseling process. My POV is she never began to address her own issues because she never told the truth...and she certainly didn't give me a chance to deal with the shock of finding out all these things that she thought were wrong with me. It took me reading "His Needs, Her Needs" for me to even be able to accept some of her complaints, much less act on them. Then to find out things were so much worse than I thought...

 

She wanted me to fix things from 7 years prior, which we had gone to counseling for in the past, and supposedly resolved. She claimed she tried to get me to go to counseling, when actually what happened is she started going to IC secretly and months later decided I should go to IC too... I would have gone to MC, but I had no idea what to talk about in IC so I didn't.

 

That brings me to one of my conversations with Steve Harley. He basically said I had a deep knife wound that was bleeding from her infidelity just now. My wife had to be the healer. We could not begin to work on scarred over issues if she was instead reopening the knife wound by A) lying B) continuing to go to MA class with the OM. I totally agree, my buying into her older issues without her telling the truth first was almost a total waste of time. How am I supposed to be motivated to work on marital issues with that kind of heinous thing going on? I tried, but it doesn't work that way. You don't get to lie to me and disrespect me in that way and expect me to pour my heart out asking for forgiveness for things 7 years in the past that we've supposedly already resolved... On top of me learning new communication styles, complimenting her all the time to build her ego back up, etc...bah...total cognitive dissonance.

In short, staunch the bleeding wound first. Make sure not to reopen it. You think you have no motivation to reconcile? Think about your BS' motivation.

 

For us it pretty much ended when I found out about my wife's lies. She finally had to face real consequences for what she had done, and she was already worn out from 3 months of "counseling". She threw in the towel, really didn't go to counseling again except to tell me "the real story" (which still wasn't) and that we were over on 2 different occasions. Actually she threw in the towel much earlier, I view her counseling efforts as pretty bogus given she never told the truth in the first place, and sat back waiting for me to fix it all. Even my counselor said that in front of her face. "You are not misreading this NH, she is stuck, waiting." So yeah, similar POV, she felt unmotivated because of pre-existing issues and killed my motivation even more with her betrayal. Did she drop a nuke on the marriage and not take responsibility for it? Hell yes, she set it ablaze and sat back and watched saying, "Oh well, nothing I can do now. You only live once and I'm not going to spend the rest of my life cleaning up this mess."

 

I don't mind working on myself, that's a good thing. I just can't do it while being knifed in the back constantly and with a wife who thinks she is doing the marriage a favor doing normal things like....wearing her wedding ring, showing affection, etc. Wow good job ex, you really tried hard =P

Edited January 23, 2013 by Ninja'sHusband

[BetrayedH]

I'm wondering if because I can't get past the original issues, whether I have true remorse?

 

Hmm. You know, I tend to think that these are two different issues. I don't know your story well enough to say it definitively, but it sounds like you have something at least akin to true remorse. You don't seem to be justifying your affair to me (just kinda my gut telling me that).

 

But owning your choice to have an affair doesn't mean that you didn't/don't have marital dealbreakers to deal with. My wife's complaints were things that could have been fixed. There was no emotional or physical abuse, no substance abuse, no abandonment, no infidelity. I tend to say that we had "normal" marital problems. My wife didn't have the courage to say that I needed to quit smoking, lose weight, and take more of a leadership role. She would also say that I wasn't ready to hear it (I disagree).

 

But if you have real dealbreaker issues that aren't being addressed, your question isn't so much if it justifies an affair as much as it is about justifying a divorce. And yes, that's a hell of a thing when you have children involved.

 

I think hearing your H's POV would also be helpful. If I have read you correctly, he's onboard with a mutual decision to divorce. I also gather that he hasn't worked on his issues (that caused your resentment) to your satisfaction. So then, is he refusing to work on his issues because:

 

(1) it's a waste of time considering that you've already decided to divorce (perhaps he just considers your infidelity a dealbreaker) or

(2) he fails to acknowledge the issues altogether?

 

If he's willing to work on his side of things, I think you'll have a hard time justifying breaking up the family. If there are legitimate dealbreakers that he refuses to address, I can understand divorcing (and I think your "true remorse" question is a different subject entirely).

[BetrayedH]

My failed reconciliation story is much like NH's (with a few notable exceptions). My WW continued to lie, blameshift, rugsweep, break NC, lie some more. Ultimately it was the continued lies that did us in. And it's damn near impossible to focus on what my wife needed when I knew 2+2 did not equal 5 and was being asked to accept it.

 

I believe my wife also eventually decided that she wasn't spending her life cleaning up this mess. Instead, a divorce officially and legally permitted to run away from the problems instead of fixing them.

[Snowflower]

 

I believe my wife also eventually decided that she wasn't spending her life cleaning up this mess. Instead, a divorce officially and legally permitted to run away from the problems instead of fixing them.

 

I think a lot of WS get to this point...even if they are remorseful. My H said much the same thing in that "it (meaning his affair) was never going to go away) for me, for us.

 

It has left us in kind of a bad place in our reconciliation with neither of us knowing what to do next.

 

The longer I have been around here on LS or done what little reading I have (remember, I'm not a self-help book type of person), counseling, etc, the more I think that if possible, divorce or at least separation should occur after an affair. Reconciliation has too many pitfalls...but then again it is my own cynicism showing, I'm sure!

[Ninja'sHusband]

Hmm. You know, I tend to think that these are two different issues. I don't know your story well enough to say it definitively, but it sounds like you have something at least akin to true remorse. You don't seem to be justifying your affair to me (just kinda my gut telling me that).

 

But owning your choice to have an affair doesn't mean that you didn't/don't have marital dealbreakers to deal with. My wife's complaints were things that could have been fixed. There was no emotional or physical abuse, no substance abuse, no abandonment, no infidelity. I tend to say that we had "normal" marital problems. My wife didn't have the courage to say that I needed to quit smoking, lose weight, and take more of a leadership role. She would also say that I wasn't ready to hear it (I disagree).

 

But if you have real dealbreaker issues that aren't being addressed, your question isn't so much if it justifies an affair as much as it is about justifying a divorce. And yes, that's a hell of a thing when you have children involved.

 

I think hearing your H's POV would also be helpful. If I have read you correctly, he's onboard with a mutual decision to divorce. I also gather that he hasn't worked on his issues (that caused your resentment) to your satisfaction. So then, is he refusing to work on his issues because:

 

(1) it's a waste of time considering that you've already decided to divorce (perhaps he just considers your infidelity a dealbreaker) or

(2) he fails to acknowledge the issues altogether?

 

If he's willing to work on his side of things, I think you'll have a hard time justifying breaking up the family. If there are legitimate dealbreakers that he refuses to address, I can understand divorcing (and I think your "true remorse" question is a different subject entirely).

Exactly, most of these problems are fixable and I was totally willing. The bit I bolded was a HUGE problem for us, even the last day I went to counseling with her. She was constantly deciding what I was and was not ready to hear. That in itself is a MASSIVE problem because she was a horrible judge of that. Some things she thought were a big deal, she'd hold back and then present like it was some major thing..and I'd be like, "Oh that bothers you? OK I'll stop". Other times she'd volunteer things all of a sudden that would send me crashing and burning, and she'd think I already knew these things and her reasoning behind them. The last day in counseling she said I wasn't ready to hear the real reason why she wouldn't reconcile and quit her class. I told her that WAS the problem, she can't decide what I am and am not ready to hear and this is exactly why we were divorcing. She said she'd leave a message with our MC to tell me later, I said, "You think I'm coming back here?? and do you think I care now? ....." There's more I said about the "why" but, as usual, I get carried way. Basically she put her MA over the family, she proved that clearly 3 different times in my mind.

 

The whole affair thing is total proof that they have no idea what you are ready to hear or not hear. When she told me she had an affair I was forgiving, when she expected death, divorce, everything bad under the sun. When I found out she lied... Don't tell me what truth I can and cannot hear. No relationship can last with that going on, and affairs are a likely outcome I think.

[Decorative]

I think a lot of WS get to this point...even if they are remorseful. My H said much the same thing in that "it (meaning his affair) was never going to go away) for me, for us.

 

It has left us in kind of a bad place in our reconciliation with neither of us knowing what to do next.

 

The longer I have been around here on LS or done what little reading I have (remember, I'm not a self-help book type of person), counseling, etc, the more I think that if possible, divorce or at least separation should occur after an affair. Reconciliation has too many pitfalls...but then again it is my own cynicism showing, I'm sure!

 

I think the only reason I was able to reconcile, personally, was because we were separated. I had to have time to regroup.

 

I know that's not conventional wisdom, but it was what we did.

[Spark1111]

Exactly, most of these problems are fixable and I was totally willing. The bit I bolded was a HUGE problem for us, even the last day I went to counseling with her. She was constantly deciding what I was and was not ready to hear. That in itself is a MASSIVE problem because she was a horrible judge of that. Some things she thought were a big deal, she'd hold back and then present like it was some major thing..and I'd be like, "Oh that bothers you? OK I'll stop". Other times she'd volunteer things all of a sudden that would send me crashing and burning, and she'd think I already knew these things and her reasoning behind them. The last day in counseling she said I wasn't ready to hear the real reason why she wouldn't reconcile and quit her class. I told her that WAS the problem, she can't decide what I am and am not ready to hear and this is exactly why we were divorcing. She said she'd leave a message with our MC to tell me later, I said, "You think I'm coming back here?? and do you think I care now? ....." There's more I said about the "why" but, as usual, I get carried way. Basically she put her MA over the family, she proved that clearly 3 different times in my mind.

 

The whole affair thing is total proof that they have no idea what you are ready to hear or not hear. When she told me she had an affair I was forgiving, when she expected death, divorce, everything bad under the sun. When I found out she lied... Don't tell me what truth I can and cannot hear. No relationship can last with that going on, and affairs are a likely outcome I think.

 

My H was like this too, initially!

 

he had an entire litany of what I would or wouldn't do, most of it so negative and unyielding.

 

I sat there dumbfounded and lookin around the room to make sure it was me he was talking about because, for the life of me, I felt it was the very first time I was hearing it.

 

Did he complain? sure, and so did I. But not ONCE did he say, this is a deal breaker for me. Not once.

 

he never came up with a solution or compromise or suggestion on how to fix it. he was just vague, and complaining, and oh so needed to be right that many of our communications became arguments because I felt unfairly attacked, but with no solution offered by him.

 

And yes, he ran away and left many a time when the heat got too hot. I did not think we would make it because he couldn't communicate clearly in a compassionate manner without growing defensive.

 

A lifelong habit of avoiding conflict doesn't change overnight. many a WS will NOT have the courage to own their actions and persevere through the mess.

 

just like the affair, they throw in the towel or run away and very fatalistically predict it cannot be fixed without ever really trying too hard to begin with.

 

those meager reconciliation success rates include all those WS, who when the heat and hard work became too much, ran out of the kitchen and filed.

[Furious]

I think where I'm a little stuck right now is that while I'm working on my own issues, I still see the same deal breakers that make me not want to reconcile and confirm a mutual decision to divorce. I'm stuck because I have a lot of guilt about that and divorcing with children is VERY hard.

 

I'm wondering if because I can't get past the original issues, whether I have true remorse?

 

Thoughts and your experience appreciated.

 

 

I think you're confused about what true remorse actually is.

 

I think you can have true remorse about having chosen to have an affair and deeply hurting your spouse instead of facing the issues in your marriage to either fix them or to divorce as amicably as possible.

 

True remorse does not mean that the grievances or original issues must be disregarded and that the WS has no right to those grievances because they cheated and are not entitled to express those grievances.

 

A truly remorseful person will take a closer and more introspective look at those grievances before they had the affair. Were those grievances petty, or were they based on significant problems, were those grievances expressed and was there reciprocation from their spouse and effort to address the problem.

 

A truly remorseful spouse also looks at how much of those grievances were actually communicated, were those grievances expressed only in anger, were they internal or was there a passive aggressive slant on them.

 

I think that true remorse is essential in reconciling a marriage, but I also think true remorse coupled with the decision to divorce is also possible if the marriage must end.

 

Many betrayed spouses who end up divorced suffer greatly, and have a more difficult time moving forward in their lives. It's hard enough to divorce but to divorce someone you've once loved and who is un-remorseful for the cheating is doubly cruel.

[ComingInHot]

Act two;

 

ouch. This hits a tender spot with me but I am glad you brought it up.

 

When I was informed that my H cheated, it had been a while since he had ended it. About a year to a year and a half later is when I found out.

 

Somehow he had reconciled (all on his own) that the A was "wrong" and even though it had ended, it had ended "well" in his eyes because A. he didn't get caught & B. they were still "friends" even though they didn't communicate.

 

Yep, nothing but fond memories of a poor choice but time to move on. BLAH!

 

So, he was NOT remorseful about having an A and our relationship didn't change at all and he remained the dominant, verbally & emotionally abusive manipulator he had always been. And Sadly, I took it having been convinced that it (whatever "it" was at any given time) was my fault.

 

That all changed once his "not so happy about being friends w/zero communications" exOW outed the A to me*

 

EVERYTHING that I had "choked" down for years, having been convinced he was "perfect" and everything was my fault, came out like an infection from an excised wound.

 

After the A crap had been "dealt" with to some extent (and three yrs later) it was time to deal with the issues in our marriage.

 

There may be a difference here as you are stating there are things that are deal-breakers that your spouse does, for my cheating H, there was pretty much just one. I DID THINGS BEHIND HIS BACK AND WOULDN'T TELL HIM. It was wrong. I know it was wrong. I did this. It doesn't matter that I learned to do this because I was Afraid of his raging on me. I should Not have done it.

 

I'm Not talking about cheating on my part, it was like buying a bottle of wine or staying longer at a girlfriend's house with the kids then not getting something done at home etc. When he would ask, Then I would tell him... I at least felt I had done what I wanted and take his anger later otherwise I'd have No life or a glass of wine or anything. (ergo he told the exOW I was an alcoholic*) cause I would buy a bottle every once in a while...

 

Anyway, I DON'T hide ANYTHING from him anymore only now, I am able to talk to him about, hear what he has to say BUT then decide whether or not I am going to do whatever it is and TELL him straight.

 

He is has worked and is working HARD on the marital issues from his end as well. He still has outburst But not as often and they are met by a much different person than I was.

 

Reconciliation begins with WANTING to for WHATEVER reason! But you have to Want to. Both of you do.

 

My Initial reason for wanting to reconcile when he asked was for probably one of the most Selfish reasons Ever but here we are happy. pretty cool*

[Act Two]

 

But if you have real dealbreaker issues that aren't being addressed, your question isn't so much if it justifies an affair as much as it is about justifying a divorce. And yes, that's a hell of a thing when you have children involved.

 

I think hearing your H's POV would also be helpful. If I have read you correctly, he's onboard with a mutual decision to divorce. I also gather that he hasn't worked on his issues (that caused your resentment) to your satisfaction. So then, is he refusing to work on his issues because:

 

(1) it's a waste of time considering that you've already decided to divorce (perhaps he just considers your infidelity a dealbreaker) or

(2) he fails to acknowledge the issues altogether?

 

If he's willing to work on his side of things, I think you'll have a hard time justifying breaking up the family. If there are legitimate dealbreakers that he refuses to address, I can understand divorcing (and I think your "true remorse" question is a different subject entirely).

 

So many posts to respond to, and I appreciate them all so much!! Thank you. Again, I know this probably does hit a very sore point with many BS so I'm sorry for that.

 

I think in my case, we didn't have little things to work on, like quitting smoking or losing weight, which also seem small to me. The deal breaker for me is that I have never really been able to trust my husband because he habitually lies to me. In the beginning they were big lies like quitting a job to say he got a job he never really had, or that he finished college, and since then they've been a thousand little lies that have made always wonder what reality is or make me think I'm going crazy.

 

A recent small example is this summer our cat was really sick so he said he would take the cat to the vet. I had this feeling that he didn't though, so I called the vet to confirm the visit, and sure enough, he hadn't. So now I'm mad because either 1. I can't trust him to take care of it 2. he lied to me and why would he do that? 3. the cat is still sick and has to go to the vet!

 

Anyway, that seems like a petty example but it's par for the course. Most of the lies are about money. Lest it sounds like he's a rotten human being, he's not- he's an amazing father and very hard worker. It just drives me nuts though.

 

After I ended the affair, I went to IC (March). The counselor saw me individually, and then saw us together. At that point we weren't really sure if we would reconcile or not, but he was pretty sure no. He did not think he could get over what I did. The counselor then advised that we needed to be seen separately, and work on our issues individually before anything else would work. Since then I've been in therapy, and he has not gone once. Not to one IC session. So that sends me a big confirmation that nothing will ever change. There is a possibility that he just won't go because he's given up and/or he's waiting to see that I spend enough time working on myself, but that's not what he's told me.He's told me he wants to fix himself but that he can't schedule anything with the IC (who works in the same practice as my IC). Hmmm.

 

This summer he said that he really didn't feel that he could overcome the damage or trust me again. He said that he didn't understand how I would be able to trust him either. He feels that we are mismatched; different ambitions and priorities in life from work/careers, views of money, and recreation.

 

We then started mediation to work towards an amicable divorce, and actually completed all of the mediation paperwork while living under the same roof. It's been low conflict (for the most part), with us pretty much living as Bert and Ernie (I'm Ernie:laugh:). Not really satisfying for anyone to say the least, but at least we have constant contact with the kids. On top of everything our youngest (9) daughter has a chronic illness but we've dealt with that pretty well together. We have co-parenting down at least.

 

In summary,from what I'm reading of the posts here, again it really hits home how destructive cheating is, even beyond the betrayal. It makes it SO hard to overcome just that damage alone, let alone start with any possible pre-existing issues.

 

I also get that it's pretty rich for me to complain about dishonesty when I threw my own integrity out the window and then became a person who used to be honest to someone with a double life, lying my face off.

 

One thing I will say to those of you who were betrayed and tried a reconciliation: at least you have your integrity intact. You have the piece of mind to say that you tried and gave it your best but it didn't work. I will never have that.

[Act Two]

I think you're confused about what true remorse actually is.

 

I think you can have true remorse about having chosen to have an affair and deeply hurting your spouse instead of facing the issues in your marriage to either fix them or to divorce as amicably as possible.

 

Thank you so much for this post. I think you are right- I've conflated remorse with reconciliation because it seems like one more selfish thing to do. It's like, I've crapped on you and taken so much away from you, and you know what, now I don't even know if I want to make this work.

 

You are right- there is a decision to divorce or reconcile which is all messily tied in with the affair, but not necessarily the same thing.

[turnera]

It sounds to me like you would have divorced him if you hadn't found the OM. What stops you now?

[underwater2010]

In the end....You will be able to say that you did whatever it took. He will not. You will be able walk away (albiet the cheating) with your head held high. Reconciliation is NOT for everyone. It is NOT for the faint of heart or the unwilling. You have to do what is right and if divorce is the answer. I am sorry that your marriage is ending.

[Decorative]

It appears infidelity was a deal breaker for him.

 

I cannot fault him for that, not would I be ready to criticize him for not trying everything.

 

Some people know in their gut, and reach a moment of clarity, and they know, one way or the other.

 

It would appear he knows he doesn't want to do the work with you.

 

And I don't say that to be cold, I just say it from experience. My best friend my entire life - when her spouse cheated? She knew. She was done. She was razor clear. No more.

 

I was done when I found out- but my spouse's Herculean efforts ( and a nice long separation at my request) helped clear my head.

 

But that would have done nada to move my best friend's heart.

[Act Two]

It sounds to me like you would have divorced him if you hadn't found the OM. What stops you now?

 

The short answer? Fear. But really, now, there is not much stopping us now- all of the mediation paperwork is done and we've figured out the living arrangements, etc.

 

We just have to talk to the kids about this. Gulp.

[Act Two]

It appears infidelity was a deal breaker for him.

 

I cannot fault him for that, not would I be ready to criticize him for not trying everything.

 

 

Fair enough- I think you are right.

[aed]

I never agree on cheating. And mostly I believe that it is the bs how is the source of most issues in the relationship and put's in the least effort, even tho they feel different at the time. Second of all they failed to communicate their problems (this is also losing their lust for the os). Most of them don't even have an clear reason why. Or subjective things like: he or she wasn't there for my anymore. What an clear example of how to say something but in fact you say absolutely nothing, I if you think about it.

 

You have pointed out a very clear reason why you cheated (and for one moment I thought understandable reason). But then I thought why would anyone stay with an partner like that. Did you find out late in the marriage etc? But still I can''t think of the possibility and truely hope by God that I never ever stay in an marraige where I found out my partner lied over really big things!