TarHeel23 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Here goes Been dating this girl for over a year now and she is really wonderful. I am 23 and she is 24 and our relationship has been really great except for our beginning. When we first started hanging out, we hooked up a few times and I knew I wanted to be serious with her, but had not told her that. I knew I wanted to date her long before we hooked up. One night we had a bunch of people over at mine and my friends house and she invited some friends she knew from college over to our party. I had no idea, but one of the guys that came over was someone she had a very recent history with and had been hooking up for him for a few months prior. At one point in the night, I noticed I didn't see her around and went outside to look for her and heard her talking with the guy below the house. I was confused so I waited outside for a little while then saw them leave and go into a cab together. I really wanted to call her and figure out what the hell just happened, but my friends talked me out of it. The next morning she tried calling me but I ignored it. I was so hurt. A week passed and my friends came home after drinking at a bar and she came with them. She came back drunk and starting crying and telling me how she screwed up so bad. We talked for a long time and I realized that she didn't know I had feelings for her, and like it or not, I was still crazy about her even though I really did not want to be. So another few days passed and we were talking (again after drinking) and I told her that I think I was getting the wrong idea from what we were doing and she said, "Why do you think I don't like you?" I said, "gee, maybe because you had sex with someone else last week?" She then proceeded to tell me over, and over, and over again that they did not have sex. (not that sex changed that much, just lessened the sting) That I assumed something for no reason. I couldn't believe it, so I told her, so many times, "Look, I can take it if you had sex with him, but you have to tell me right now if we are going to date, I need you to be honest." She promised me and that night we started dating. About two weeks later it came up again, and she claimed she had no recollection of ever telling me that they didn't have sex. She admitted to it right then and there, and I was so lost. I told myself I could get over it, but lately (the past two months) all I can do is think about it. I know it's irrational. I know it's my problem. I know I have jealousy issues. But this **** hurts so bad I can't even tell you, to think of them together. To think that that night, she chose someone else over me. There are days where from the second I wake up, to the second I go to bed, this is what I think about. Feeling like I am her second choice. She is great and I love her to death. But every time someone asks us how me met, I can't even talk about it. There are some days, recently more often than not, where I am absolutely miserable thinking about this. I talk to her about it and let her know that this is my problem, that I know she she didn't have any obligation to me, but seeing her leave my house with another guy is an image im not sure i can erase. I really want to make this work but i am running out of options. This has been a huge problem to get over as far as trust and I don't know that I completely trust her right now. She tells me that she had a crush on me before we dated, and I just don't see how that's possible given what happened I don't want to keep beating her up about this and I'm starting to think the only answer is to end it sorry for the long post Link to post Share on other sites
Author TarHeel23 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Share Posted January 23, 2013 Damn really did not think it was that long... Link to post Share on other sites
GSB81 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Alright man, I'm gonna try to help you out. I am a "jealous" guy, and by jealous I mean I expect a girl I'm involved with to make me and my feelings a priority. What nerve I must have, right? Anyway, you really have no reason to be all that upset about this. She banged a guy before you even told her you liked her. Emphasis on BEFORE! At most this girl is guilty of a drunken lie. If you absolutely cannot let this go, let her go. Bitching on her isn't going to change the events of a night BEFORE you got together. It will push her away though. Do not trust her blindly, and you might want to tag along when she's drinking. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Also, the fact that she called you the next morning meant she felt guilt which means she probably knew you two were more serious than just "hookups." It's clear she felt guilty because she had feelings for you, OP. And lying wasn't a good thing to do, the alcohol in the mix didnt help but is no excuse. I am sure she was afraid of scaring you away with the truth. It was wrong of her to lie and theres no question about it. The question is if she's made a mistake or if she's a habitual liar? I'd caution against dating someone that has a lying problem, it will end with heartbreak, a good relationship requires honesty. If it was a mistake, I don't see it in and of itself as a reason to break up, the question is if you are able to forgive her for it. Link to post Share on other sites
todreaminblue Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I agree with dazed and confused.....she is with you now and how she treats you now is the issue.......however if you dont feel you can trust her then really have a serious talk to her as that is th eonly true way you will work things out not reading arguments on this site....talk to your gf...i wish you the best....deb Link to post Share on other sites
GSB81 Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 This is all funny how you guys take the dating today days... it looks like everything needs to be written like a contract... you didn't tell her you like her so she can bang another guy and then come next week to you and tell you she loves you? How fked up is that? So she's supposed to be faithful to a guy she's not in a relationship with? A guy who, from the sound of it, hadn't made it known he was looking for something more than a fwb thing? Sounds like she had similar arraignment with the other dude. If that's the case, doesn't that make the OP the other man? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 I'm reposting my initial reply since half of this thread was taken down: Listen, i really relate to this -- my bf and I started out casual too, and he was having a lot of casual sex back then. From day 1 we saw each other almost every night and spoke constantly, and after 3 weeks together he asked me to be exclusive with him. I found out later that in those 3 weeks, he slept with another woman, one of his casual f*buddies. It hurts to know that so much. I try not to think about it and it creeps up sometimes, and it hurts me more knowing it's someone unattractive and icky and it was just because he wanted sex, even though we were having so much amazing sex. BUT, and this is a big but, it happened when we weren't exclusive. I chose not to sleep with someone else but I very well could have. I also know him well enough to know that he probably needed confirmation that he wanted to be with me, and this gave him that. After all of the casual sex, he had to be sure he wanted to jump into a relationship. What matters is how she's treated you from the minute you became exclusive. How she makes you feel. Does she make you feel like you're better than any other guy in the world? If so, you need to find a way to put this behind you. If she makes you feel like she prefers another guy, like you aren't good enough, talks about the guy she slept with a lot, then you should take a long hard look at this relationship and if maybe you feel like this because there's a fundamental problem. It doesnt sound like that though, it sounds like this woman makes you happy when you're not thinking about this past event, and finding someone who can make you happy is very, very rare. I know this is easier said than done, i really related to your post and also posted recently about issues with jealousy and insecurity. Still, in order to let yourself be happy in the relationship you need to do it. And it's absolutely ok to ask her for help in this, because as my bf always tells me, he knows he contributed, it's a problem for you as a couple. Make sure she knows that you love and appreciate her and want to solve the problem -- that you're on the same team and you're in this together. Link to post Share on other sites
loversquarrel Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Consider this - even if you two weren't exclusive at this point in time, she lied about something she didn't have a need to lie about. That's a huge red flag. She was also banging the both of you and had no problem having you guys meet then go home with him from your house......You may want to consider that this girl has some character flaws. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Darren Steez Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 It's funny how guys can get slapped in the face and still take it 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pbjbear Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I know it hurts, but she had sex with a guy BEFORE she was committed to you (or knew you liked her...men often lead women on with sex and perhaps she thought thats what you were doing) and shes not wrong for it (although the lying did not help) When guys do this stuff, guys AND girls tell women to just get over it and since Im more sensitive, I wont say it quite like that to you, but you get my gist. If you cant get over it, thats fine, but you should walk away because she did nothing wrong... Link to post Share on other sites
pbjbear Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Consider this - even if you two weren't exclusive at this point in time, she lied about something she didn't have a need to lie about. That's a huge red flag. She was also banging the both of you and had no problem having you guys meet then go home with him from your house......You may want to consider that this girl has some character flaws. Men do this all the time and us women are told its no big deal and to accept it. I had a guy do this to me and when I didnt like it everyone said GET OVER IT and STOP BEING JUDGMENTAL and its JUST SEX Guess what? women can have "just sex" too Maybe that thought scares you...but its the truth. There are women who dont mix sex and emotions like the typical female I hate double standards 1 Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I think you are looking at this too much in the view of men vs women. Both sexes do this because there are people of low morals on both sides. Just because a few guys act poorly does not mean women get a free pass. Both sexes have their fair share of people who are cheaters, liars, and worse. Flat out there is more to this story than what is posted here. It seems like she knew the two of them were on track to date but a guy came along that she was more attracted to who most likely only wanted her for the night and she took it. It sounds like the OP's girl wants to have her cake and eat too Um the OP said they were having casual sex and the girl didn't know he wanted more, so where exactly do you draw the last sentence from? This sounds like blatant slut shaming to me. I'm going to have to assume that the OP doesn't believe that casual sex is wrong or indicative of "low morals״ seeing he started this relationship as casual sex. Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 My experiences have taught me that if I have casual sex with a man, I should see it as just that and treat it as entirely casual. This changes if a man explicitly states that he wants a relationship and then I make a choice based on that. A lot of women think like this to protect themselves -- men are more capable of separating sex from emotions, and women tend to mistake sex for emotions (for physiological reasons, btw). So, a woman who goes into casual sex expecting a relationship will get hurt a lot. My bf and I started as casual too and until we both made a mutual decision to not be casual, we could *both* do what we pleased. Commitment is something that is a choice based on mutual desires. It hurt me knowing that my bf slept with someone else in our first week of dating, but he wasn't sure he wanted a relationship. He felt bad about it after and realized he wanted to only be with me and it led to our entering a committed relationship. It's yucky to think about, it hurts to think about, but who knows -- under different circumstances I could have done the same thing. I think it's very possible to have feelings for and/or be very attracted to 2 people and act on it. It's possible to feel rejected by one person and end up consoling yourself with sex with another. It's not fair to judge this woman without knowing what was going on in her head. As far as the lying goes, it was wrong, but she did come clean. She may have done it to spare the OP's feelings and not just to protect herself -- even if she didn't feel that what she did was wrong, she may have done this because quite simply she cares about him. She may have done it out of shame because she went off with this other guy after feeling rejected or insecure. Or shame because it's not a good feeling having your bf know about a specific sexual encounter with someone else. She might also be a compulsive liar in which case this lie is indicative of a bigger problem -- the question is why she lied and if she learned a lesson or has continued to do it. I don't see what the OPs house has to do with this, the principle would be the same if they were both at the same bar in a big group. Unless this was an intimate gathering I personally don't see the relevance. It's easy to judge people as an outsider but it's much harder when you're the one dealing with a situation -- we don't always act in the optimal way, we don't always have the emotional maturity to know how our actions might be harmful down the line even if they aren't necessarily "wrong" in an absolute way. Cheating is wrong. Having sex with 2 booty buddies isn't, not in my book anyway, even if it's not something I would do at this stage in my life. In my early 20s I saw no issue with this. I know people, male and female, in their 30's who still see no problem with it, unless they're in a relationship they have the freedom to make their sexual choices. Someone who disagrees may not enter a relationship with them as a result, but that person is deeply incompatible with them anyway. Anyway, to each their own, but the decision comes down to this: *Is your problem with the sex itself, or with knowing about it? *Is the sex and lying indicative of this woman's moral character or was it a foolish mistake? *Do you think you both learned and grew from this and similar situations won't arise? *Can you live with this reminder of your gf's sexual past? Only the OP has these answers, none of us can really tell him what to do. All we can do is give advice about how to make that decision. I would be really cautious about judging this girl so harshly, though. Fact is that she didn't cheat. If a good friend told me that she cheated on her boyfriend, I would be really disappointed in her. If she told me that she was casually seeing someone and developing feelings for him, but didn't think it was reciprocated, and ended up sleeping with someone else in a moment of insecurity and bad judgement, i would think it was foolish and immature, not something that puts her moral character in question. *That's* what I meant by slut shaming -- making an argument that this woman is morally decrepit for making a sexual choice outside of a committed relationship. Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 ^^^For me, it helps to hear about people who understand me and have been through something similar, if you don't like it that's fine but I think sharing experiences is much more helpful than getting on a soapbox about something you don't have experience with. And you went on to talk about going through something similar, which is apparently acceptable when you do it. You seem to have a personal issue with me, please behave with civility. OP, again, this is your choice. Maybe this is a dealbreaker, maybe not. In my case I made the decision to come here for advice about my hangups because my relationship is worth getting through this, other than this one issue I am very very happy, and if I am able to overcome it I will have a happy life with my partner. For me, someone "letting me with a stupid face" wouldn't be a reason to end an otherwise great relationship, my happiness is more important than my insecurities about how others will see it or my ego. But again, that's me. I just think having been given similar feedback here that was honestly just really extreme given my situation, take it with a grain of salt -- you come from a place of insecurity, and having people tell you that youre stupid to be with your girlfriend and your honor is tainted is going to feed into that. You don't know us and we dont know you (or your girl). Talk to people who really care about you and want you to be happy, and have seen both of you together and know your girl. They're the best people to talk to. This place is good because it helps you feel like you're not alone -- there are other people with the same problems and same dilemmas that you have, and knowing how they made decisions *may* help you figure out how to make your own. Plus it's nice to have anonymity to get this off your chest. Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) My bf and I started as casual too and until we both made a mutual decision to not be casual, we could *both* do what we pleased. Commitment is something that is a choice based on mutual desires. It hurt me knowing that my bf slept with someone else in our first week of dating, I don't see what the OPs house has to do with this, the principle would be the same if they were both at the same bar in a big group. Unless this was an intimate gathering I personally don't see the relevance. You made this agreement before you started doing the deed. You made an agreement that you did not like. Hence the hurt. The OP did not mention the making of any such agreement. There is no need to sleep with a different partner every week. Patience, better known as maturity, would give some one the the ability to see if a new love interest is going to go some where for one month. Then they can make the decision to tell their BF/GF the lets be exclusive or the I think of you as a friend speech before they start banging someone else. This would eliminate a lot of heart break. As to the house deal. Starting a relationship, sex, not sure enough if you will want to go exclusive is one thing. Though bringing another guy to your sort of "new" guy's house and be all over the other guy in front of your "new" guy while there. Then leave to go bang the your other guy. Is not a nice girl. The OP should see this as this girl failing the job interview for marriage and that she needs to be terminated. Edited January 24, 2013 by road 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 ^^^ i could be wrong but these 2 are kids, i don't think anyone is being interviewed for marriage or doing the interviewing. They had casual sex and developed feelings for each other and decided to check it out. I also can see doing something really insecure and immature at age 23 or 24 and doing a lot of maturing during a relationship. I still don't understand why this is an automatic dealbreaker, BUT, and it's a big but, this girl needs to show some serious emotional maturity to be worth investing time and effort in. She needs to have undergone visible changes and clear changes in priorities. the OP needs to be able to feel confident that she's not going to lie like this again, not going to jump to some other guy for validation, not play juvenile games. That's of course assuming that the OP wants something with future potential. When you start a relationship from a place of wanting something casual, the standards of entering the relationship may be lower. Because of the casual nature of things, you may get to know someone that you wouldn't have given a chance to if you were looking for your future spouse. A lot of people are talking about the decision to enter this relationship to begin with, which the OP has already made and seems to be happy with the person he's with, other than this past event. So, this isn't about whether what happened before the relationship became a committed one is a reason to terminate the relationship now. I don't see this as black or white, I see it as completely dependent on who this woman is now. Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 I don't think this has anything to do with the post but for your own mental peace I am a 36 yo married man! the OP and the girl in question are 23 and 24, i think you must have misread this bc I don't see how your age is relevant? I can guarantee you that your outlook and standards were different at their age, though. At 36, you'd have to be a fool to date a woman your own age that acted like this. At 23, most of us are insecure, unsure of ourselves, don't know how to enter a relationship or how to look for a spouse. So this could have been a stupid, insecure, immature mistake on the girl's part, or it could be a sign of bad moral character. There's nothing that i see in the OP's post that was conclusive one way or the other, but it was clear that other than this thing he sees her as a good person and is happy with her. Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 ^as you said, everything isnt about you:p my post had nothing to do with your age. Maybe due to your age your definition of dating is different though, having casual sex isnt dating, it's being fwb's. major distnction. Dating means expectations of a future, fwbs doesnt. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
road Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 When you date the goal should be marriage. Not that the proposal has to be made by the second date. Hitched by the first month. 23, 24 they should not be entering relationships just to have a steady piece to bang. A relationship based on sex is based on nothing. Yes there must be the chemistry for a connection. Yes when people date when they are 16 it should be that they think this one can be the one, or has the potential to be the one. Then take the time to build a relationship. Not everyone marries their first GF/BF from when they are 16 is because people grow in different ways as the grow up. Changes happen. Though changes happen people need to act with integrity when in relationships regardless of their age. Not every teenager cheats. This shows that using the excuse oh they were young or I was or he, she was young is nothing more then an exercise in making invalid statements. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 When you date the goal should be marriage. Not that the proposal has to be made by the second date. Hitched by the first month. 23, 24 they should not be entering relationships just to have a steady piece to bang. A relationship based on sex is based on nothing. Yes there must be the chemistry for a connection. Yes when people date when they are 16 it should be that they think this one can be the one, or has the potential to be the one. Then take the time to build a relationship. Not everyone marries their first GF/BF from when they are 16 is because people grow in different ways as the grow up. Changes happen. Though changes happen people need to act with integrity when in relationships regardless of their age. Not every teenager cheats. This shows that using the excuse oh they were young or I was or he, she was young is nothing more then an exercise in making invalid statements. Please tell me this was satirical... Link to post Share on other sites
Author TarHeel23 Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share Posted January 24, 2013 Damn, i did not think there would be such a wide range of opinions, I really appreciate everyone's advice so far, can't thank you enough. maybe some more details will help She has told me that what they had was casual, but when they (my gf and the other guy) talked underneath my house, he talked about still having feelings for her and it shook her up. She says that they were supposed to be over but he came back and starting saying these things to her. She doesn't know, but I saw him walk away angrily to the cab, and she asked him to wait and eventually went to the cab. I know that she had another f*k buddy while she was hooking up with this guy too. Not sure if that matters. This is new to me cause I really never did the casual sex thing. Our relationship has been really good though, the only drama we have is the drama created when I tell her I'm upset about this. But she doesn't even get mad at me for talking about it, she asks over and over how she can help. We really don't even fight, we have all the same interests and she really is a sweet sweet girl, I do think that this was just a mistake on her part. She says she understands that it's going to take a long time and if we break up it will be on my terms because she will be here as long as it takes. With that being said, I can't help but feel like this was, like Darren said, a massive slap to the face....like why, even if we're not exclusive, would you invite him to my house? Just seems so stupid. It would have been one thing to have done this at a bar, or done this when we were at another location, that I think I could handle, but to do this at my house is something I really don't know if I can swallow. I feel like I wasn't even given the chance to tell her how I felt, I wanted to ask her out on a date but I thought it was too soon. Her past is much more colorful than mine, being with about twice as many people, and I think a decent amount of those were casual sex. We have a long distance relationship, I'm going to see her this weekend and I still have no idea what I'm going to do. Link to post Share on other sites
DazedConfusedEtc Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 The LDR thing would really concern me after behavior like this. Has she explained what she did? I think you should tell her you saw her follow him to the cab. Do you feel like she's trustworthy? I don't really get a LDR at your age unless you think it's the love of your life. Get out there and live 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Drseussgrrl Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 This is the kind of crap we deal with after creating a society for young folks where courtship has pretty much been eliminated. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
loversquarrel Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Men do this all the time and us women are told its no big deal and to accept it. I had a guy do this to me and when I didnt like it everyone said GET OVER IT and STOP BEING JUDGMENTAL and its JUST SEX Guess what? women can have "just sex" too Maybe that thought scares you...but its the truth. There are women who dont mix sex and emotions like the typical female I hate double standards I suggest you read some of my other posts before you make a snap judgement. If I had read your post and it was similar to this I would have made the same statement. I don't agree with double standards, male or female. Also - Men don't always do that. You're statement is generalistic and unfair, just as it is unfair that people told you to just get over it with your situation. Link to post Share on other sites
loversquarrel Posted January 24, 2013 Share Posted January 24, 2013 Yes... this girl is usually posting without even reading the whole thread and gathering conclusions without having the whole information... Ignorance is bliss.... Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts