kaylan Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) Studies? Sociologist? See...this is where you lose me. Be a man. Let a woman be a woman. It's that simple. See...when you do and say the things you are saying, you are coming off like you are trying to be the white knight and save women because they can't save themselves. A REAL woman is gonna look at you and think "Who the **** does this guy think he is?". Be a man. Let a woman be a woman. And again...how people think men and women should look varies by society. Which is the big point of what Ive been constantly saying. This pigeonholding idea of "women should look like women and should be feminine" is simply lazy and doesnt take into account how subjective all that is. People can look how they like...but my main point was simply that double standards are lame and stifle peoples individuality and free will at times.I think that while there are people who want to draw attention to the double standard, most people don't care and are quite happy to adhere to it. Me personally, like I said I'm indifferent. If my SO wants to wear makeup, I'm not gonna dissuade her. I still get to see what she looks like in the morning . Thats the thing. Im an analytical guy, and I like to know why I and others think the way we do, or feel the way we do. Some people are content to exist as cogs in the machine. Im all about people being able to be there own cog, outside of the machine. But again, I realize many folks just exist in the world, and never wonder why they feel or do the things they do. /myinvolvementinthisthread Edited January 23, 2013 by kaylan
ascendotum Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 So... you're cool with a woman who doesn't work out and 'bust a gut in the gym' so long as she wears makeup? It all depends on the woman. Like many topics on here, people throw in extreme examples to discredit others opinions. If you are thinking that I would be happy with the female contestants in the Biggest Loser' show, if they just used a bit of foundation,eye liner & lipstick...No! Most of my gfs did not work out in the gym or were fashionistas, and its the same for practically all of my mate's gf/wives. The few who do it waited until that got FAT. If a woman is not over weight, then I don't care if she doesn't want to work out in the gym, but I don't want her to have a sendentary lifestyle (and go kayaking, rock climbing, swimming, etc with me). I am not looking for a glamour girl, but like the OP I would appreciate it if my gf makes a bit of an effort with makeup every now & again when we went out. (as per Vegegirl's post...and not the 1hr makeover rundown of others) Lots of women on here make a fuss about tall men because of their need to wear 4+" high heals. To me stilettos are in the same realm as the nature of this discussion. imo women care about them more than guys do, as it is with makeup, but many guys do appreciate the difference.
KungFuJoe Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 kaylan, I'm sure you mean well and I apologize for giving you a hard time. You ARE an analytical guy...overly so. I am too. I think EVERYONE on LS are over thinkers, to be honest. You think your friends are out discussing the ramifications of socialistic differences in primping standards? I'm saying women should dress and preen and primp HOWEVER THEY WANT, even if that means not at all. I would never EVER tell my woman she needs to dress up or wear make up. Because I don't have to. That's why she's my wife. 1
charlietheginger Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Im upset boo hoo hoo My girl dont wear make up... I want sexy with a sexy women... I expected my girlfriend to spend a hour Shave her legs under the arms and poosie. moisturize her body, blow her hair out,put On make and a thong wear these heels Dance on the coffee table . Then perform Taint tingling fellatio on me. What do i do to get ready for sex? I take off my pants. I just dont think i can date her anymore 1
veggirl Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 omg. I want a man who looks good, so in return I will make sure I look good. I think most men and women who will agree with that will also agree that they are A-OKAY with the different regiments involved. If people are cool with partners who look messy/unkempt then COOL, you're good for each other! I mean end of story yeah? OP.............cause there was an OP you guys ........guess you needa figure out what you want as far as physical appearance and don't be afraid to own that. I have no problem letting anyone know that I want a man I am attracted to, and that is a man who looks good and clean and kept up!:bunny: 1
KungFuJoe Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Im upset boo hoo hoo My girl dont wear make up... I want sexy with a sexy women... I expected my girlfriend to spend a hour Shave her legs under the arms and poosie. moisturize her body, blow her hair out,put On make and a thong wear these heels Dance on the coffee table . Then perform Taint tingling fellatio on me. What do i do to get ready for sex? I take off my pants. I just dont think i can date her anymore Charlie...don't take this the wrong way...I think you're a cool guy...but seriously you are the LAST person who should be talking about how a woman should look. You still haven't figured out how a man should look.
Keenly Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Women are expected to prep much differently and WAY more effectively than men. So yes, double standard. Some people write with their left hand instead of their right.
CptObvious Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 make a deal with her she starts wearing makeup all the time and you start bodybuilding. win win.
charlietheginger Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Charlie...don't take this the wrong way...I think you're a cool guy...but seriously you are the LAST person who should be talking about how a woman should look. You still haven't figured out how a man should look. Guess im not into makeup. My women of choice is A lady in sweats and a sports bra. Yoga pants and a Tanktop. I like um as natural as can be.
charlietheginger Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I also dont like perfume or smelly hair products Or fragrance deodorant. Most of it makes me sneeze
Els Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I think the whole tangent that threw this thread of was caused by the exact similar rift that characterizes all the 'who pays?!?!?' threads - expectation of one's partner to change to one's liking vs appreciation of someone who chooses to do it of their own accord. There are women who LOVE wearing makeup and jewelry. Great! There are women who don't. This thread is about a woman who presumably doesn't, or at least not often enough for her bf's liking. All the "I love makeup!!" proclamations in the world from other women aren't going to change that. Nobody's wrong and nobody's right here. Just different. I think kaylan's view on makeup is very apt considering his expectations in relationships in general. He wants a completely egalitarian relationship where the cost of dates are always split, the girls ask the guys out too and initiate half of everything, there is no expectation of traditional masculine/feminine roles. In such a situation, it would actually be hypocritical of him to expect his gf to spend 45 minutes on a beauty regimen with all the feminine extras while he spends 15. I actually find it admirable that he's truly giving what he expects - pure egalitarianism. This may not suit all of us (not me either, tbh), but at least he is being fair, and from what I've read he hasn't had any lack of girls interested in him. Which brings me back to advice for the OP. If you want her to dress in a certain way for you, the best way to encourage that would be to treat her that way. If you want her in makeup, a Little Black Dress, jewelry, etc, treat her to a place where everyone dresses that way and pull out all the gentlemanly stops. Be a gentleman so that she can be a lady. Drive her there, open the door for her, etc. 5
sweetjasmine Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 You can't assume that a woman who doesn't wear make up is a woman who no longer puts effort into looking nice. I put effort into having clear, healthy skin, and a strong, lean body. That's how I choose to use my extra time each week: exercising and cooking healthy meals, rather than putting on make up and styling my hair Yep. I hardly use make-up, but do take good care of my skin. I never dye my hair, use product other than shampoo/deep conditioner, or blow dry, but I do take good care of my hair. And the money I save on not buying hair and make-up products goes towards better uses. It's just different priorities. So some of ya seem to think that we should all just let ourselves look like s.hit and our partner should be cool with it? And some of you seem to think that everyone who doesn't wear make-up must automatically look like s.hit, sloppy, and messy. The last girl I was seeing had acne, and really wanted to get rid of it. She used Proactive and washed her face religiously. However she still put makeup on anytime she got any acne, or any blemish. And I told her itd make it worse and only clog her pores with crap she didnt need on her skin. Of course she didnt listen and the makeup defeated her acne fighting regimen. Thanks for the reminder. Some types of foundation make my face break out, which is why even when I tried wearing this stuff daily for work, I couldn't keep doing it. Still managed to look sharp, presentable, and professional without it, somehow, judging from the compliments some coworkers gave me. Imagine that. 4
silvermercy Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 (edited) This thread is enormous! LOL To chime in, let's clarify that as I female, I like makeup but I don't wear it often. I avoid it. Reasons are this: - I feel FAKE when I wear it. I just don't want to present a false image. - I don't want to get stressed out and worry about my partner seeing me without makeup or run to the bathroom every morning before he wakes up to apply some (there are women who actually DO that. I find that sad). - it's very time consuming depending on the level of makeup you do. I just have other more important things to do - or go to the gym and stay healthy. - also it breaks me the hell out. - Eye makeup makes my eyes water a lot of times. - it's also expensive (especially if you want to avoid the above allergic reactions. You need to stay clear of cheapo makeup). - I feel my skin can't breathe in general or that I can't move my facial muscles as I'd like to. (Many women avoid facial expressions so as not to ruin their makeup. God forbid if they cry! lol) - it's full of chemicals (I work in the biomedical field and, trust me, if you see the same cosmetics chemicals that you use in cancer cell culture you be become a tad paranoid...) - I also analyse the societal structures and standards of beauty, masculinity vs femininity in various time periods and regions just like kaylan did. Generally I'm okay with women wearing it. But I'm also OK with MEN! Look at this article: Should Men Wear Makeup? A Short History in Defense of Male Cosmetics Ancient Egypt and male makeup. Cosmetics were an important part of the lives of both men and women in Egypt as early as 10,000 BC. Continuing throughout Egyptian history, cosmetics were intertwined with everyday health and hygiene for Egyptian men. Daily, men would use cosmetic oils and creams to protect their skin from hot desert sun and winds. Both men and women commonly used red ochre and henna to dye lips, cheeks and fingernails; men also applied heavy eyeliner, which helped reduce the sun’s glare and was believed to have improved eyesight. These cosmetics were part of everyday life for the most “rugged” and masculine men in Egyptian society. Medieval European castrati. Castrati were a special kind of male opera singer who gained enormous popularity in Europe from the 16th century all through the early 20th century. Castrati, who usually sang soprano, would often play women’s roles in operas and were known to dress lavishly both on stage and off. While we might view castrati as effeminate by today’s standards, they were in fact symbols of masculinity in their societies. They lived like rock stars, men envied them and women adored them. What could be more masculine than that? Men in 18th century Europe. We’ve all seen period films in which men appear at parties in what can only be described in modern terms as drag. The long, curled, powdered wig, white makeup, rogue, silk stockings – the whole bit – were all key to maintaining a powerful appearance in aristocratic circles in 18th century England and France. These elaborate fashions were worn by kings, dukes and nobles – the most powerful men in society. Even after the long, white wigs began to fall out of style, many older men continued to wear them to retain a powerful, masculine image. How’s that for being a manly-man? Edited January 23, 2013 by silvermercy 2
pbjbear Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 This post is SO SO shallow I love how women have to change themselves for a man, put all this effort into looking so damn good everyday or else he loses interest and then guys here say men arent as shallow as we think they are I have yet to meet a guy who puts in the same effort in order to "keep my interest" because of what I LIKE that he doesnt consistently do yet. With ALL of the men I dated, there were certain things they stopped doing after a month of dating and if I posted about it here everyone would tell me I am unrealistic (though what I want isnt) Another example of how in today's society, a woman is supposed to cater a man and when a man doesnt cater to her, the response is "boys will be boys" If I was dating you Id walk away 1
pbjbear Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Yeah...that would be a total deal breaker for me. That's a sign she took you for granted. This is funny, considering how much men take women for granted. Tell me you two, everything you did in the first 2 months of dating your partner...were you doing a year later? I highly doubt it Get over yourselves 1
Author paperboy48 Posted January 23, 2013 Author Posted January 23, 2013 So, just out of curiosity....is there any way to delete this thread
Els Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Aw, c',mon. You actually had some genuine advice in there. At the very least have the decency to read and reply to it.
pbjbear Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 I also like how this OP bolded the part saying shes a sweet fabulous woman. If she was really as fabulous as you describe, or you actually meant that statement, you wouldnt give as much crap about her not wearing makeup anymore Guess what? The last few guys I dated that I really really liked, stopped putting in as much effort after a few months but I didnt make posts here saying "oh this guy is SUPER fabulous but he doesnt pay for me anymore, initiate most of the dates, compliment me all the time like he used to..." and if I did, all the men woud flip out at me and say get over it The fact you even started a post over this shows men place a much higher value on LOOKS than women do...yet ironically this is prob the one woman who would treat you well for a longer period of time Hate double standards with a passion and us women often enable them
serial muse Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 OP, this whole thread I've been wondering something. You say that she doesn't wear lipstick, earrings, etc. anymore. But it's an established fact that most men don't have a clue about the "natural look" when it comes to makeup - in other words, lots of women wear some small amount of makeup without looking "made up". I know hardly anybody who wears nothing at all - no foundation, no lip gloss, no whatever. Even women who - like myself - aren't fond of makeup will still wear some, because as Kaylan quite rightly says, it's the standard these days, and to NOT wear it makes everyone look exhausted by comparison. My point is, I'm not at all convinced that your lady wears absolutely nothing and puts no effort in. Perhaps she's not as dolled up as you like. But those on this thread arguing that she could put in the bare minimum, a little foundation and lip gloss - I'm not convinced she doesn't already do that, and that he just thinks it's nothing, because it's not as obvious as fire-engine red lipstick and big hoop earrings. In other words, people are assuming an awful lot here, and maybe we just don't have all the info. The OP wants, perhaps, a more made-up look - that's his prerogative, but it could also be a major source of incompatibility if that's not what his lady wants to do. Let's NOT assume that she's just given up, though. She may be doing what she thinks is right, and there are plenty of men - on LS, I might add - who go on and on about how they like the natural look, only they very likely haven't seen it. (I don't include Kaylan in this; I believe that he's actually quite egalitarian, and kudos to him for that.) So OP. Back to you. What's really going on here? Like every thread on LS, this one has devolved into people's own issues, imprinted on yours. Bring us back to your story. 3
TheGuard13 Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]This post is SO SO shallow I love how women have to change themselves for a man, put all this effort intolooking so damn good everyday or else he loses interest and then guys here saymen arent as shallow as we think they are I really don’t see how its any more shallow than a woman/women wanting a man to have a decent job, a certain level of confidence, or to be attractive or in shape, etc, etc, etc. Just because some men like women to look good doesn't mean that's all they like. If it's all they liked, maybe they'd be shallow. I don't think that's the case here. There’s a sense of competition to the whole thing. Women tend to compete with other women, from what I've seen, just as men tend to compete with other men. Ifyou aren’t doing what you can to stand out and highlight your attributes, and others are, guess whowill get noticed/celebrated? Others. I have yet to meet a guy who puts in the same effort in order to "keep myinterest" because of what I LIKE that he doesnt consistently do yet. WithALL of the men I dated, there were certain things they stopped doing after amonth of dating and if I posted about it here everyone would tell me I amunrealistic (though what I want isnt) Another example of how in today's society, a woman is supposed to cater a manand when a man doesnt cater to her, the response is "boys will beboys" [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]I don’t think anyone has said that you'd be unrealistic for expecting men to do things to keep your interest. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] If someone’s not meeting their partner’sneeds/wants, depending on the circumstances, that can be a real issue,regardless of whether they’re male or female. I don't think you can really call a societal double standard unless it's actually there. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]
pbjbear Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] I really don’t see how its any more shallow than a woman/women wanting a man to have a decent job, a certain level of confidence, or to be attractive or in shape, etc, etc, etc. Just because some men like women to look good doesn't mean that's all they like. If it's all they liked, maybe they'd be shallow. I don't think that's the case here. There’s a sense of competition to the whole thing. Women tend to compete with other women, from what I've seen, just as men tend to compete with other men. Ifyou aren’t doing what you can to stand out and highlight your attributes, and others are, guess whowill get noticed/celebrated? Others. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT]I don’t think anyone has said that you'd be unrealistic for expecting men to do things to keep your interest. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] If someone’s not meeting their partner’sneeds/wants, depending on the circumstances, that can be a real issue,regardless of whether they’re male or female. I don't think you can really call a societal double standard unless it's actually there. [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman][sIZE=3][/sIZE][/FONT] Hah, if a woman posted here "my boyfriend had a really good job and then got demoted..." you wouldnt believe the responses youd get from men Men dont keep up their looks in relationships either Im sure if the OP's girl told him to add some more muscles, hed get very offended
clia Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 If it's shallow to want your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse to look good, then sign me up for the shallow team. If the OP's girlfriend wore make-up and got dolled up in the early days of their relationship and doesn't do it now, that is a form of false advertising. He thought he was getting one thing -- a woman who wore make-up and got dolled up for him -- when that obviously wasn't the real her. There is nothing wrong with not wearing make-up if that is your prerogative. The problem is if you are wearing make-up to attract a man and then think you can revert back to your natural state once you reel him in. I think that is just wrong. It's essentially pretending to be someone you are not. Personally, I can't imagine not wearing make-up and getting fixed up when I go out with my boyfriend. He likes it, I like it, it's a win/win. 2
pbjbear Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Alright, well when my future boyfriend puts on 10 lbs I will make a post here saying he misled me by being thinner the first few years we dated...we will see how well that goes over 1
serial muse Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 If it's shallow to want your boyfriend/girlfriend/spouse to look good, then sign me up for the shallow team. If the OP's girlfriend wore make-up and got dolled up in the early days of their relationship and doesn't do it now, that is a form of false advertising. He thought he was getting one thing -- a woman who wore make-up and got dolled up for him -- when that obviously wasn't the real her. There is nothing wrong with not wearing make-up if that is your prerogative. The problem is if you are wearing make-up to attract a man and then think you can revert back to your natural state once you reel him in. I think that is just wrong. It's essentially pretending to be someone you are not. Personally, I can't imagine not wearing make-up and getting fixed up when I go out with my boyfriend. He likes it, I like it, it's a win/win. OK, this is a little dramatic, to me. Yes, I understand the whole "false advertising" thing, but the reality is that over time people behave differently, and I am 100% sure that includes the OP, me, you, the people in my next-door apartment, Brad & Angie, and Barack & Michelle. Even those who are great about keeping the passion alive, like KungFuJoe and his lady, are in all likelihood not behaving just exactly the same as they once did. So let's not go overboard with this. People relax, people let their guard down, their hair down, whatever metaphor you like. That's generally a good thing. Is that false advertising, too, that you start to let someone in a bit more, that you're not palpitating on edge waiting for the phone to ring, that you're willing to share fears and insecurities that you once kept hidden? I'm all for putting in effort to keep the magic alive, but this whole "false advertising" thing is a bit much. 1
TheGuard13 Posted January 23, 2013 Posted January 23, 2013 Alright, well when my future boyfriend puts on 10 lbs I will make a post here saying he misled me by being thinner the first few years we dated...we will see how well that goes over If that's really what drew you to him, and one of the things you really liked about him, that would be a valid concern. That seems to be the situation with the OP. If he didn't REALLY like that she did it, he probably wouldn't have an issue with it. I would think most spouses would be able to lose 10 lbs for someone, or would at least try.
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