Issue

[egalew]

Part of the issue with my ex-MM is that he was highly integrated in all aspects of my and my daughter's life. Thus, my daughter, age 7, absolutely adored him and he her.

 

In October the wife gave him the boot and they were proceeding toward divorce, which he was happy about. However, when the reality of being a single, middle-aged man hit home, I got dumped. It was the week before X-mas, in fact. Since then I suspect -- thought not sure -- he patched it up with the wife.

 

Other than a break up e-mail from him, which read like a form letter from an HR department, and a subsequent one thanking me for a X-mas gift for his grandson, I haven't heard a beep. And, I thankfully have been radio silent and strong in my NC. I didn't even respond to the two e-mails.

 

My issue is my daughter asks about him a lot, wondering when we'll see him. They had the sort of relationship where he would call and they'd talk on the phone, or text. Thus far I have casually dismissed her questions with, "Oh, he's still out of town, etc....."

 

Yesterday, going through my calls I noted she tried to call him several times, hanging up when she got his VM. This man, because of his work, is glued to his cell, so obviously ignored the calls.

 

Thankfully, my daughter's father is close by and very involved and she sees/talks to him constantly. Still, I feel bad for my daughter, though there is nothing one can really do about this.

 

Just venting ladies. Thanks.

[egalew]

Yes. I should have stated this. Been an issue with her making calls / texts on my phone, which does have a lock. I have talked to her about this and did so yesterday.

 

And have considered discussing the issue directly with her; however, am dealing with my own pain and still feeling raw.

[Summer Breeze]

It sounds like you're doing all the right things for yourself. I'm so sorry you're going through this and even more sorry your D is. I think I'd probably tell her you'd broken up. I'm assuming she doesn't know the truth so you could tell her that he can't talk to her anymore because he's moved back with his kids and the woman he was M to. It gives the sense of finality and I imagine in kid fashion it might help her understand why he can't call her.

 

It's never easy with kids and maybe my idea isn't the one that will work but it might give you something to start with.

 

It sounds like you're doing the right things. Keep with it and stay strong.

[egalew]

Actually, Juice, I don't want to get into, given I'm sorting through my own feelings.

 

But, this was a man who heavily pursued me for many months and it started out as a friendship. He also was the one who took the initiative with my child, not me, given I am very guarded.

 

This is not about judgment. This about healing and moving forward, despite past circumstances.

[Summer Breeze]

Well those are situations where adults put children into by only thinking about their selfs.

And at the end its the children that suffers.

Its weird how you just bring a men that you know wasnt yours

in your home around your kid like its normal.

 

And , why would you even keep his phone number in your phone.

It doesnt have a value. its up to you to guide your kid true this.

and to learn a good lesson once and for all.

not to mess with other peoples men and dont bring men around your kid if its not a men that will marry you. and that you already know for a long while.

 

I think the lesson for a 7 year old should be more along the lines of -- don't use Mommy's phone without permisison, and that sometimes people go out of our lives for good and help her to deal with it. I agree this is a time for lessons to be learned but I don't think fidelity is something that needs a big discussion with a 7 year old.

 

As far as having him around the house. He had moved out of his home and they were proceeding to divorce. I probably wouldn't have had him get that attached that quickly but I can see it's within the realm of possibility. I do agree and think that's something that lots of people do far too quickly though and I'm talking in normal dating situations.

[Summer Breeze]

Well im happy you start seeing the light a little.

But still a lot to come.

 

dont agree with you about the 7 years old part.

shore she hae to know not to touch moms phone.

 

but i doesnt sound like something she normally do.

so thats not the real issue.

and the kid dont know, but the adult did know what she was doing.

 

so its not weird for me to say something about it to the topic starter.

 

i cant say much to the kid, cause she did not start it , or open a topic,

or get her mom and her self involved in this.

 

so the issue is not the kid calling really. cause why is the kid calling him?

cause someone introduced him into her life.

and now he is gone and the kid miss him.

its a kid behavior. its a human reaction towards lost relationships.

so you cant blame her about the phone...

you need to look at yourself first and take care and responsabilty for your actions first. cause the kid is innocent.

her acts is innocent 2!

 

You can tell her about not touching your phone.

like thats the real issue?!!!

i think the real issue she needs to take care of is to

let her kid know in a right way what the situation was and

how to deal with.

cause she brought her(kid) into it.

 

just by telling her dont touch my phone doenst take the kids hurt away.

the phone is not the most important thing in this.

but the whole action that leaded the kid to the action.

beside, whatt is his number still doing in moms phone?!

 

 

A child is hurt when any R is broken up. They make a connection with someone and if they're suddenly out of their lives it often hurts. The child doesn't have to know any of the adult dealings of the R. It hurts and they should only be told what they can understand. That is what I responded to. You want to make it into a thread to flog the OP -- have at it if you want.

 

Good luck eaglew!

[todreaminblue]

Its hard with kids involved, I also think you are doing what you can, be there for your dauighter and be good to yrouself you will get over it and your daughter will too....she has you..i am a single mother....i have three daughters i WAS the betrayed spouse in my relationship and I will not introduce another man to my children unles it is a man who has some substance to him....for their benefit and for mine i wont introduce someone unless i know i am serious...i wish you all the best...give your daughter huge hugs it will make you feel better too....hugs from me to you....good luck.....deb

[Summer Breeze]

Its hard with kids involved, I also think you are doing what you can, be there for your dauighter and be good to yrouself you will get over it and your daughter will too....she has you..i am a single mother....i have three daughters i WAS the betrayed spouse in my relationship and I will not introduce another man to my children unles it is a man who has some substance to him....for their benefit and for mine i wont introduce someone unless i know i am serious...i wish you all the best...give your daughter huge hugs it will make you feel better too....hugs from me to you....good luck.....deb

 

I did this too tdib. I jumped the gun when my D was a little one and introduced her too quickly and it broke her heart. I was much more careful after that and I actually had someone question my seriousness with him because it took me so darned long!

 

Good post and great advice.

[Summer Breeze]

Looking at yourself and your own faults will only

help you grow. Its all about you. He is probably happy laughing in bed with his wife right now.

 

I know a lot of men are pigs. but like i said before ,they cant cheat by themselves

So they need a female pig to get dirty with.

 

If you dont look at yourself and take responsibility, tomorrow there will

be another MM knocking at your door, next day another one, and so on.

What would you do? Take them all and say they pursued you?

 

And this has to do with her 7 year old daughter how?

[ComingInHot]

Egalew;

I'm actually happy for you that you received a letter of closure from you now exMM.

 

If you read another hot thread by foold2manyX's, you read her pain of getting Nothing. The last words spent after a kiss was, "we'll be together". Then nothing!

[egalew]

Coming in Hot - Agree. He at least did that.

 

I have known many cases where the guy vanishes into the night, leaving the woman hanging. This happened to a dear friend and it was quite painful for her.

 

Some would say, "Well, she was the OW. She gets what she deserves." However, as many of us know, in the heat of the relationships, feelings are intent, the man says / does things that suggest he is true to his word, when not.

 

In the aftermath of my affair, I have read countless books on the subject, as well as personality disorders. I was naive, vulnerable and unaware of the personality I was dealing with. If I knew then what I know now, I would have nerve allowed myself to enter in such a situation. Moving forward, never ever again.

 

Coming in Hot, I have followed your post and I feel your pain. Stay strong and be gentle on yourself.

[egalew]

Juice - Perhaps, it's not what you're saying, but the way you're saying it.

 

Perhaps, you mean well, but your posts come off very sanctimonious, with the undertow of someone trying to stir the pot. Yet, I don't know you're story, so hard to say. I did, however, briefly glanced at your other posts and noted that you're posting in several boards.

 

With that, I wonder what you're on the board.

[Summer Breeze]

You would be surprised to find out that at this age the infidelity memes are been passed from one generation to the next. The kid is a blank slate and is absorbing behaviors from her mom. The kid already knows how to make intimate relationships with men that are not her dad.

 

Passing memes is something that takes time and isn't heaped upon a kid all in one go. I disagree. I don't think at 7 a kid needs to hear about infidelity any more than they need to hear the adult details of many things in the world. At this point she needs to know the contact is off and that he won't be in their life. If eaglew is worried about infidelity memes that's something she can work on after the fact.

 

As far as the intimate relationships. When I was a toddler I had intimate Rs with my minister, my next door neighbor, and all the uncles in the family. Unless you're accusing eaglew of allowing her child to be involved in an amorously familiar act with xMM then I can't see the problem. An intimate R for that age (unless you're accusing of it being sexually inappropriate) would be one that's loving, close, and or familiar. It's not unusual for kids to have that and if eaglew was certain xMM was going to be a fixture then she would have fostered it. Maybe she misjudged and there's a lesson to be learned for her, and others.

[Summer Breeze]

The kid is absorbing like a sponge and her future personality is developing as we speak.

 

 

 

 

We all know about the uncles, neighbors, ministers, and priests that sexually abused kids.

 

No big deal for a child to have adult relationships, but a good mother guards her kids and does not put the child in a situation where sexual abuse could happen.

 

This is basic Parenting 101

 

Man Prof how many classes are you gonna teach? First it's Infidelity 101 and now Parenting 101. Hope you're getting paid well! JK Pierre!

 

Yes we do know about all of the ones who have abused and we know of many more that have not. So do we not allow kids to be close to anyone at all? Eaglew made a judgement call and I don't think we have enough information to make it seem as dire as this. That the 7 year old is up enough on infidelity cause Mom did it that she should be told the truth in it's entirety. I also don't see anything remotely indicating the xMM was a sexual predator to that child. Would I have done things differently, probably. But I don't know the particulars and I won't take it to the point you have without them.

 

The last thing I have to say is that sexual abuse can happen anywhere and anytime. If we were going to protect them to the point you're alluding to they'd never leave our sides and we wouldn't trust anyone on the face of the earth but ourselves.

 

I agree we need to protect kids but I'm sensing a knee jerk to drive home a point.

[jwi71]

You would be surprised to find out that at this age the infidelity memes are been passed from one generation to the next. The kid is a blank slate and is absorbing behaviors from her mom. The kid already knows how to make intimate relationships with men that are not her dad.

 

I do not agree.

 

For infidelity memes to be passed the 7 year old would have to know what infidelity IS. That is a foreign concept to such a young child.

 

What the 7 year old sees and learns is how to make, from the 7 year old viewpoint, healthy bonds with others. The problem, as has been pointed out, is the R was immature at the point of introduction and the pursuit of this bond - not that it was an A.

 

However, with support, the child can also now experience loss and healthy ways to grieve such.

 

It's not a huge issue. It can potentially come such with repeated iterations of this - the proverbial parade of strangers coming and going. But I haven't read that here. Not have I read that OP intends on such an endeavor.

 

OP - no harm no foul here. Ideal? No. But you haven't destroyed the child's future either.

[Summer Breeze]

How about Common Sense 101?:D

 

 

 

Famous last words Summer. The predators look as innocent as Mother Theresa.

 

Good one and one very much needed! I'll be your first student!

 

And sometimes the ones who look like Mother Theresa are indeed Mother Theresa. I'm not fighting what you're saying but I can't bring myself to jump to that with so little information from the OP. I respect what you're driving at though.

[jwi71]

Most kids at that age long to have mom and dad together in an intact family. When mom is bringing in another man into the home she is hurting the child who probably has the illusion of a mom and dad. That is why she was so clingy to MOM.

 

I think it means the child formed a bond with a man who wasn't her father.

Could have been a family friend or priest or doctor or uncle or grandfather or neighbor or best friend's father. Or anyone.

 

You are saying that because he was the OM the bond was damaging and passing along infedlity memes. Which cannot be true. The child would have to know the man was the OM and all the intricacies that cone with A's. A 7 year old doesnt begin to grasp that The child simply formed a bond with another. It's perfectly normal and natural. This is simply your prejudice on display.

 

It's your prejudice because if we substitute OM for grandpa I bet the bond is acceptable.

[Summer Breeze]

Most kids at that age long to have mom and dad together in an intact family. When mom is bringing in another man into the home she is hurting the child who probably has the illusion of a mom and dad. That is why she was so clingy to MOM.

 

If the kid truly had a very strong bond to her real bio dad the MOM would be insignificant.

 

FOO memes are powerful. We tend to be like our parents. And the memes are passed form day one.

 

I've known an awful lot of kids who have had step parents brought into the house and they were never hurt by it. I also disagree that having a strong bond with bio parent makes a step parent insignificant. That's a matter of opinion formed by our own experiences and by those around us so I can see we'll never agree on that.

 

We are like our parents but figuring this little girl is ready for the topic of infidelity cause her mother did it is like saying a little boy is ready for a talk about sexual positions because Dad has sex. As jwi said the concept is foreign.

[veryhappy]

The most important issue you need to address from my point of view is making sure your daughter doesn't feel that she's guity for this guy not talking to her. I'm thinking he must be believeing it's you who's calling and that's why he's not picking up. If I were you I'd leave him a voice mail explaining the daughter is looking for him and ask him to talk to her a few times she calls to let her down gently. At that age it's okay to give kids a general explanation. By no means should infidelity be part of the explanation. Just because your A ended abruptly doesn't mean your daughter has to suffer and he should understand that if they got along so well.

 

I'm sorry for you going through such a cliché of an A. They always run back when the W decides to want them or beg to go back at the first vibe of loneliness.

[ThatJustHappened]

I am not faulting or attacking the OP. She sounds like a very good woman. But, I suspect she is a bit naive and innocent and hopefully this was a learning experience.

 

When I was a kid my dad was my hero (he is still my hero). I was very close to my dad and in my eyes he was Superman.

 

As a kid I could never imagine having a close relationship like that with any other man.

 

Have you heard about the syndrome of women that grow up without a father and have daddy issues? These women grow up to like men that are much older.

 

When I read about this kid clinging so much to MOM I got the impression the kid is missing something.

 

I am living proof that this is true. I've never met my father and I didn't have a solid male figure in my life growing up, and (high school boyfriends aside), I've never dated anyone less than 7 years older than me. Oldest I've gone was 15 years older.

[ThatJustHappened]

I am living proof that this is true. I've never met my father and I didn't have a solid male figure in my life growing up, and (high school boyfriends aside), I've never dated anyone less than 7 years older than me. Oldest I've gone was 15 years older.

 

To clarify..I'm not condoning allowing a child to bond with an affair partner. I was just chiming in. I actually think letting a kid bond with a married guy his or her mom is sleeping with is quite disgusting.

[egalew]

There have been a surprising number of responses to this post, with a lot of things needed to be clarified.

 

- My daughter has an amazing, tight relationship with her father. He lives close by. She is with him 2-4 days a week and they talk at least 2x a day on the phone.

- The exOM never slept at my house. We were very aware of the situation. In front of her, we were very formal.

-My daughter viewed him as the "family friend," and naturally curious where he is now and doesn't come around.

- For the record, I have another very male good friend -- almost 30 years -- that is strictly platonic and pops over here and there.

 

What more can I say? It happened. Lesson learned. I am pushing forward

[egalew]

Cute - Thanks for the advice and I'm considering following it. The truly sad part for me is that we always talked about what should happen if we part. He always emphasized my daughter meant to much, he would never do x, y, z, etc......

[jwi71]

The memes come from the mother. At some level the child knows the mother is seeing a man that is not her dad. At that age I could not imagine my mother sleeping with another man. It would have been very hurtful to me.

 

Exactly. You're making my point for me. At that age you could not imagine your mom having an A. So how is it THIS child CAN?

 

It has NOTHING to do with infidelity as a 7 year old doesn't comprehend it.

 

It is simply a bond formed to another. Which makes perfect sense given the access the OM had. Why wouldn't a bond form? And it's not inherently damaging.

 

The rest is psyco-babble to justify how this bond, unimaginable (your word) to a 7 year old, makes it bad.

 

Children form bonds to those around them.

It is a normal and natural process. It is not inherently bad.

The child formed a bond with OM. It was not bad simply because it was an OM - the child doesn't think so given the repeated contact attempts TO him.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[Summer Breeze]

There have been a surprising number of responses to this post, with a lot of things needed to be clarified.

 

- My daughter has an amazing, tight relationship with her father. He lives close by. She is with him 2-4 days a week and they talk at least 2x a day on the phone.

- The exOM never slept at my house. We were very aware of the situation. In front of her, we were very formal.

-My daughter viewed him as the "family friend," and naturally curious where he is now and doesn't come around.

- For the record, I have another very male good friend -- almost 30 years -- that is strictly platonic and pops over here and there.

 

What more can I say? It happened. Lesson learned. I am pushing forward

 

I'm glad you posted eaglew. It was getting a little silly with some of the speculation going on. You'll do fine and it sounds like you've done a great job ensuring she's close to Dad.