Who's naive?

January 25, 2013

Maybe this just hits home to me because it ruined the home I grew up in. As a 20 year old kid I was able to see it. So maybe I am bitter. Maybe I feel that if a 20 year old WATCHED it and PREDICTED it happening, how the heck could me mother and step father in their 40's and 50's not see it.

You can claim "life got in the way, kids got in the way, etc." But that's all excuses and like not going to the gym, not finishing a degree, not being reliable at work or to a sports team, excuses don't amount to anything if the job isn't getting done.

My parents were wrong to neglect each other and if a 20 year old kid could see the direction it was headed and they couldn't, I believe that to be Naive of them both. And I love them both dearly. And they are both HIGHLY intelligent people otherwise.

January 25, 2013

But BetrayedH - You've seen a TON of people on here in HEALTHY marriage with NO problems get cheated on...So if you are in a TROUBLED/CRAPPY marriage, wouldn't that put you on notice even MORE so than a good marriage? And if Not, then what the HECK DOES put you on notice to possible infidelity???

January 25, 2013

I don't think you guys know who you are talking to....Lol...look at some of my posts hahah I just responded to a post a day or so ago that grinding in a club is cheating!!! Ok!!! Lol. I am VERY thoughtful and VERY respective of my partner.

Even in my original response, you can see Bentnotbroken who didn't agree with me UNDERSTOOD a lot of my points and said I wasn't wrong..And they weren't even offended at all. Because I took the time to explain the situation.

My mother AND my wife for example...BOTH have rose colored glasses to the world. They both always say "I try to look for the good in people." THAT CONCEPT is inherently naive. And maybe because I am trained in critical thinking. But the way you SHOULD view the world is, that it IS what it IS.

I don't look at a chair and hope to see an airplane. I look at the chair and it's the chair. So people like my Mom and wife have been naive because of their "looking for the good in people." Just look...don't look for good OR for bad.

Edited January 25, 2013 by chucksagent

January 25, 2013

nofool4u - obviously the OP is wrong in this situation. She has no right to try and justify her behavior. It was immoral and reprehensible. I HATE HATE HATE when someone KNOWS another person is married or even committed and knowingly engages in even FLIRTING with the person, much less SEX! Read any of my other posts on here...Lol. I'm old school conservative! I can't STAND adulterers.

My simple point was, for me anyway, if I was having marital problems...No date nights, no sex, no intimacy, I would be worried about possible ramifications. Among them would be infidelity...I was just being honest.

It doesn't mean I would be right or wrong. I just think given the facts in that situation, it would be naive of me to think it not possible even if we made a commitment to each other. I would EXPECT her to fear the same thing (even though I KNOW I wouldn't stray).

Chuckie...you don't always see it coming. And if you question it, you are told "nothing is wrong."

And you still have date nights...and you still have sex...and you're still parenting your children and hosting family holidays, but in your gut you sense something is....slightly off..but you can't quite put your finger on it.

You ask again, and are told everything is fine, or, just tired from work, or blah, blah, blah...

The easiest person to lie to is the one who trusts you the most to tell them the truth, and it's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been in my shoes.

I feel you are looking for guarantees that infidelity would never happen to you because you would see the signs and get it fixed first.

I can't give you that reassurance. No one can.

January 25, 2013

But BetrayedH - You've seen a TON of people on here in HEALTHY marriage with NO problems get cheated on...So if you are in a TROUBLED/CRAPPY marriage, wouldn't that put you on notice even MORE so than a good marriage? And if Not, then what the HECK DOES put you on notice to possible infidelity???

Nothing. There is no magic wand or crystal ball that will protect you or prevent it from happening to you if your spouse so chooses the infidelity path.

January 25, 2013

It's a red flag for marital problems and a need for IC, MC, etc.. I didn't see infidelity coming and the inference that I should have (and therefore taken steps to prevent it) is putting some blame on the BS.

OMG!!! I AM SO GLAD YOU POSTED THIS...I want to say how sorry I am. Sometimes, for being a lawyer, I am a crappy communicator...OMG.

I didn't even think this was how I was coming across... This all makes sense now. Wow. I feel like a jerk. I AM SOOOO SORRY.

I didn't mean for it to come out like that. You are probably a VERY good person who just trusted as good people should do. I didn't mean to put ANY onus on you....Even if you HAD seen it coming, you can't stop someone from cheating...that will only make them want to do it more.

NOTHING was your fault..whether you saw it coming or not...NOTHING. You can't take steps to prevent infidelity. The steps need to be taken LONG before it gets to that.

So the fact that anyone on here may have thought I meant this the way BetrayedH thought I did, I am VERY VERY Sorry.

Please accept my sincere appology. Now I feel like such a heel on a Friday. Thanks a lot guys...

January 25, 2013

Maybe this just hits home to me because it ruined the home I grew up in. As a 20 year old kid I was able to see it. So maybe I am bitter. Maybe I feel that if a 20 year old WATCHED it and PREDICTED it happening, how the heck could me mother and step father in their 40's and 50's not see it.

You can claim "life got in the way, kids got in the way, etc." But that's all excuses and like not going to the gym, not finishing a degree, not being reliable at work or to a sports team, excuses don't amount to anything if the job isn't getting done.

My parents were wrong to neglect each other and if a 20 year old kid could see the direction it was headed and they couldn't, I believe that to be Naive of them both. And I love them both dearly. And they are both HIGHLY intelligent people otherwise.

I know how you feel. I get this. My parents turned into the WAR of the ROSEs.

I thought if I did everything right, and that IS my straight A student mentality, that this could, would never happen to me.

It did. No guarantees.

January 25, 2013

Chuckie...you don't always see it coming. And if you question it, you are told "nothing is wrong."

And you still have date nights...and you still have sex...and you're still parenting your children and hosting family holidays, but in your gut you sense something is....slightly off..but you can't quite put your finger on it.
You ask again, and are told everything is fine, or, just tired from work, or blah, blah, blah...

The easiest person to lie to is the one who trusts you the most to tell them the truth, and it's hard to explain to anyone who hasn't been in my shoes.

I feel you are looking for guarantees that infidelity would never happen to you because you would see the signs and get it fixed first.

I can't give you that reassurance. No one can.

Well said Spark....Thank you for that. I think you're right. I've had friends tell me I try to predict things too much and worry too much. I won't lie, I do. Lol.

I really didn't mean to infer any of you BS's did anything wrong. I could seriously cry. Because I've had that stuff happen to people close to me and I would NEVER mean that.

January 25, 2013

Well that's just crazy talk, I thought happiness was always found in someone's else's pant's.:D:D:D

I get it now....if you want to be happy you stay married, lie and cheat.
Divorce and honesty are not an option.

I wanna add a caveat.

MC Hammer's pants make me laugh.

So maybe happiness is found in those pants, but THAT'S IT!

LOL

January 25, 2013

But BetrayedH - You've seen a TON of people on here in HEALTHY marriage with NO problems get cheated on...So if you are in a TROUBLED/CRAPPY marriage, wouldn't that put you on notice even MORE so than a good marriage? And if Not, then what the HECK DOES put you on notice to possible infidelity???

This is an honest answer. I don't think I have a cheater's mentality. I went a long time in a relatively sexless marriage and never considered going outside my marriage. Maybe I just never had as much opportunity. I know I had some decent boundaries. I still don't get what kind of solution cheating is to anything. I never expected my wife to be so damn stupid, let alone that deceitful and depraved.

The only thing that made me think about her cheating was when she told me out of the blue that she wanted to separate and that it might be too late. She didn't mention anything about an affair, of course. It made no sense to me. We didn't even argue but maybe twice a year and we were over it by morning. An affair slowly became the only thing that made sense. In hindsight, there were other "signs" (longer hours at work and such) but I didn't have the mentality pre-infidelity to see them.

Based on your experience, I can see why a troubled marriage would be more of a red flag for you. I didn't have that experience. I just figured it was a dumb thing to do. You either fix your marriage or you throw in the towel. Why would I expect someone to cheat? It's just dumb.

January 25, 2013

I admire you BetrayedH....

My first REAL serious girlfriend cheated on me...Broke my heart...I couldn't handle it, I SPAZZED out...Lost my mind.

I think it might be part of the reason I have trust issues and am cynical to this day. I wish I wasn't. I wish I was able to just look for the good in people and trust unconditonally 100%.

But you just see sooooooooo many bad/selfish/stupid/terrible people out there. Scares the crap out of me.

January 25, 2013

OMG!!! I AM SO GLAD YOU POSTED THIS...I want to say how sorry I am. Sometimes, for being a lawyer, I am a crappy communicator...OMG.

I didn't even think this was how I was coming across... This all makes sense now. Wow. I feel like a jerk. I AM SOOOO SORRY.

I didn't mean for it to come out like that. You are probably a VERY good person who just trusted as good people should do. I didn't mean to put ANY onus on you....Even if you HAD seen it coming, you can't stop someone from cheating...that will only make them want to do it more.

NOTHING was your fault..whether you saw it coming or not...NOTHING. You can't take steps to prevent infidelity. The steps need to be taken LONG before it gets to that.

So the fact that anyone on here may have thought I meant this the way BetrayedH thought I did, I am VERY VERY Sorry.

Please accept my sincere appology. Now I feel like such a heel on a Friday. Thanks a lot guys...

No need to feel like a heel. You've definitely made an effort to make your point in an innoccuous (sp?) way. I didn't fare as well. "Naive" is a term I find particularly bothersome and one I usually see used by WSs and OPs to essentially say that we BSs were too stupid to keep our spouse. It's just an insult. To me it's like claiming "finders keepers." Juvenile. To have it come from another avenue seemed like cognitive dissonance but it's hard not to get offended.

Anyway, I appreciate the apology and don't hold a grudge. I probably owe one or two myself. Just ask Decorative. You wouldn't believe how she and I got into it over "What the Children Should Be Told." Good lord.

Anyway, don't let it ruin your weekend or your Friday. I enjoy a spirited debate. Hopefully none of us will get an involuntary vacation from LS for ours.

January 25, 2013

I admire you BetrayedH....

My first REAL serious girlfriend cheated on me...Broke my heart...I couldn't handle it, I SPAZZED out...Lost my mind.

I think it might be part of the reason I have trust issues and am cynical to this day. I wish I wasn't. I wish I was able to just look for the good in people and trust unconditonally 100%.

But you just see sooooooooo many bad/selfish/stupid/terrible people out there. Scares the crap out of me.

Well, while I don't envy what happened to you, I kinda wish I had had a little bit better radar. I went thru breakups but no serious betrayal. I think most of us would have happily done something to prevent it.

I'm trying to NOT let myself get too jaded (or bitter - inside joke there) but I think that 100% unconditional blind trust thing is long gone. Perhaps you just learned the lesson earlier.

January 25, 2013

Yeah, it really stunk. And then as I got older, I found out that my grandfather (who I ALWAYS thought was a saint) cheated on my grandmother early in their marriage...They are married 55 years this year and have 6 kids (my mom being one of them)...He cheated on her when they had 4 kids and she was alone at home taking care of everything while he worked. Really did a number on my pschye (what you THINK you know about people.) And then sooooooo many crazy strories about friends, family, aquantinces...it's just insane what people do and how cruel they can be.

January 25, 2013

Yeah, it really stunk. And then as I got older, I found out that my grandfather (who I ALWAYS thought was a saint) cheated on my grandmother early in their marriage...They are married 55 years this year and have 6 kids (my mom being one of them)...He cheated on her when they had 4 kids and she was alone at home taking care of everything while he worked. Really did a number on my pschye (what you THINK you know about people.) And then sooooooo many crazy strories about friends, family, aquantinces...it's just insane what people do and how cruel they can be.

I certainly see it everywhere now. I can't even see a couple without wondering which one cheated (or both). Just went out with a couple the other night, been together since they were 16 and they're 62 now. They're coming up on 47 years or something. My mind immediately goes to wondering if they've got one or two infidelity stories in there to tell. I never used to be that way. I just would have thought it was a wonderful thing, asked their secret and looked forward to those days for my wife and I. And it could have come to fruition had my wife just opened her mouth instead of her legs.

January 25, 2013

I wanna add a caveat.

MC Hammer's pants make me laugh.

So maybe happiness is found in those pants, but THAT'S IT!

LOL

What a goofball.

January 25, 2013

I certainly see it everywhere now. I can't even see a couple without wondering which one cheated (or both). Just went out with a couple the other night, been together since they were 16 and they're 62 now. They're coming up on 47 years or something. My mind immediately goes to wondering if they've got one or two infidelity stories in there to tell. I never used to be that way. I just would have thought it was a wonderful thing, asked their secret and looked forward to those days for my wife and I. And it could have come to fruition had my wife just opened her mouth instead of her legs.

I hate this effect most of all. I knew I was skeptical before, but now I'm downright suspicious of everything. It's too easy now for me to suspect the worst of people right off the bat, and I have to spend an inordinate amount of energy trusting people that shouldn't even be second guessed.

I never thought something could happen to me that would make me like this.

January 26, 2013

And if they do indeed have a problem with their sex life, there's nothing like filing for divorce to put that spark back in the marriage.

That's when the MM usually eventually run back home. Even after they have apartments set up.

Seen it here too many times to count.
I wouldn't get too comfortable if I were you.

BTW, the fact that he showed you those private emails, shows me he's a manchild who's mad at his "wife/mommy." Those are the ones who usually go running back once mommy pays attention to them again.

Ok mommy, ahem Alice.

January 26, 2013

It is funny how conveniently things happen for you... when we talk about your MM going back everyday to his wife ... suddenly he was divorcing!

When we say your MM lies about not having sex at home... suddenly he has emails as proof!!!

Who in hell send emails about the lack of sex in your relationship??? You speak about it at home but you don't send emails about that...

What is the next thing that are you going to make in the run to fit your arguments? That the BS children were actually yours but she stole them when you didn't notice?

Come on woman stop the Bull$hit!

Whatever. It's all the truth.

January 26, 2013

You said it in your title of this thread. Granted you put it in the form of a question, but we are not stupid.

And you knew this and knew what you were doing by posting this in the Infidelity section.

As far as your response to someone's question, do you really think people who have been hurt at the hands of people such as yourself really care to hear how wonderful your affair turned out to be and the victory over your respective BS's?

You were hurt at the hands of your spouse. I don't consider any part of this to be a victory. I only mentioned my update because Alice spouted off about future faking, etc. All the buzzwords used on these boards to put everything into a safe, little box where husbands come home, curl up in little balls, and beg for forgiveness. My MM won't be doing that. Regardless of me, way too much history in his marriage for him to want to go back to that.

January 26, 2013

I did. I didn't cheat.

Good for you. Feel better?

January 26, 2013

So are you saying all married men are having sex with their wives? That's absolutely false. Speaking for myself, I stopped having sex with my STBX years ago. I wouldn't have been surprised if he had gotten a girlfriend. It wasn't my reason for stopping the sexual part of our marriage but I actually hoped he'd find someone else. No such luck.

You still didn't answer my original question Alice. As with the lack of surprise tone of my question, I'm not surprised you took the opportunity to slam me instead. Bravo!!!

So your mad because some of us women are respectful to are men and love them? You are sick and twisted to not break up but just stop stop being sexual ?for years!

Have fun with your life being the other women

January 26, 2013

So your mad because some of us women are respectful to are men and love them? You are sick and twisted to not break up but just stop stop being sexual ?for years!

Have fun with your life being the other women

Sick and twisted? I had no intimacy in my marriage yet you expected me to have sex with him? I don't think so.

Thanks for the best wishes. I feel the love.

January 26, 2013

Good for you. Feel better?

Yes I do!

Look, I really hope you ARE one of the 3 out of 100 where you both divorce your spouses and sail happily into the sunset together.

But in th event you are not, please do not discount all the stories, opinions , pain, anger and advice you have heard here.

You may really need it one day.

January 26, 2013

Good for you. Feel better?

Isn't this a bit obvious? Clearly, a person who values honesty would feel better not cheating and dealing with any problems and issues in a way which was consistent with their values.

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