Who's naive?

[BetrayedH]

I think we are not naive... we just don't even think about the possibility that that person we have loved for years, that is the foundation of our daily life and who is supposed to be the last person in the world who would hurt us will end up destroying our world...

Honestly... when I looked to my ex to her face at dday... I just realized I didn't know her.. I had been living with a total different person I thought she was... My life turned to be a lie...

Was I naive? No hell, I trusted my wife because it is the foundation of any marriage... and she misused that trust ... I was not naive... she was just a deceiving bitch!

 

Agreed. Hope it's understood that my previous post was sarcastic. I don't think I was naive at all. I was just plain lied to by someone that was supposed to have my back more than anyone else on Earth. I was certainly cautious and skeptical of everyone else in life but, my wife? Nope. And I refuse to accept any version of naive, stupid, or should've/could've/must've known. My wife just chose to lie to the one person in life that trusted her the most. That's on her.

[chucksagent]

Betrayed & Meandmyself:

 

So sorry to hear what you guys went through. My Mom and step-dad had the SAME exact thing happen. They were married 15 years....there is a large gap in age between my half brother and I (we lived together though like real brothers).

 

I agree with you guys and have your back. Cheating is ALWAYS wrong, no excuses...ever. I HATE how the OP like glorifies it like so many people do as though they are roman heroes "We were both in loveless marriages and we found each other." Oh, poor you, because you had NOTHING to do with being in a loveless marriage. Lol, god, the crap people tell themselves to sleep at night is AMAZING.

 

Merriam-Webster defines Naive as "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment." I don't think that means STUPID as it were...And while I agree with you guys on EVERYTHING you said, I DO however think Naive is a good way to describe what happened to both of you AND my own parents.

 

I was only a 20 year old kid and I would PLEAD with my parents, "Make Friday night your date night, I will watch (my younger brother), or Gram, or Aunt X, Uncle Y, etc. They all love (my younger brother) and so do I, it's not a big deal. And they both ALWAYS found excuses not to go. And sorry guys, I know the whole "Soccer, diapers, etc." Makes you sound like a martyr, but that's BS too...and I think you both realize that NOW. But nothing should be more important than your significant other and romance...it's the fire that keeps you close.

 

Alas, we are told things by people we deem wise and after you repeat it a few 100 times you stop asking yourself if it's true. "They love me they will never cheat on me." But be practical about it...if you're dying of thirst and I show you water will you not drink? If you are starving and I hand you bread will you not eat? Its simple cause and effect. AGAIN, I DO NOT CONDONE CHEATING. I personally would NEVER do it even if Was sex starved, BUT, I would never be in that position because I wouldn't allow it to happen.

 

If you love someone, you have to constantly show them that you care. People in marriages often get lazy and then are surprised when stuff goes wrong. If you get lazy in life you get fat...if you get lazy in sport you get bested...this stuff shouldn't be SHOCKING and that's why the OP used the word "Naive" because there really isn't any other word for it.

 

SURE you are good people, hard working, responsible, loyal, and those are all to be rewarded and valued...but in that case, you were also naive. I am still bitter that my "all knowing" parents couldn't take advice from a "20 year old" because heaven forbid common sense ringing from a young persons ears was impossible. But sometimes in life, it REALLY is that easy. Why should soccer practice or working late or cleaning the house take priority to pleasuring your wife? Or pleasuring your husband? I fail to see how ANY of those can be even remotely more important.

 

Another thing I hate (statement people say a lot so its true lol) "My kids are the most important thing in the world to me." Well, if that's true, you are a moron who will probably get divorced. EVERY SINGLE COUPLE I know who has been together for 25, 30, 50 years...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, always tell me, they LOVED their kids, but their significant other was NUMBER ONE importance to them.

 

That is a FACT. EVERY....SINGLE...One of them...Now, the divorced people I know? "My kids are #1 to me." Well, child worship is what's killing the educational system in this country why not kill the wedding bonds as well.

 

My point is, people can keep patting themselves on the back for loving their kids and being responsible good parents, but if your marriage is falling apart in the back drop, what does it really matter? It's like focusing on painting the bedroom of a 10 room house when the foundation is collapsing below you. Pointless act...Naive act.

[bentnotbroken]

Betrayed & Meandmyself:

 

So sorry to hear what you guys went through. My Mom and step-dad had the SAME exact thing happen. They were married 15 years....there is a large gap in age between my half brother and I (we lived together though like real brothers).

 

I agree with you guys and have your back. Cheating is ALWAYS wrong, no excuses...ever. I HATE how the OP like glorifies it like so many people do as though they are roman heroes "We were both in loveless marriages and we found each other." Oh, poor you, because you had NOTHING to do with being in a loveless marriage. Lol, god, the crap people tell themselves to sleep at night is AMAZING.

 

Merriam-Webster defines Naive as "deficient in worldly wisdom or informed judgment." I don't think that means STUPID as it were...And while I agree with you guys on EVERYTHING you said, I DO however think Naive is a good way to describe what happened to both of you AND my own parents.

 

I was only a 20 year old kid and I would PLEAD with my parents, "Make Friday night your date night, I will watch (my younger brother), or Gram, or Aunt X, Uncle Y, etc. They all love (my younger brother) and so do I, it's not a big deal. And they both ALWAYS found excuses not to go. And sorry guys, I know the whole "Soccer, diapers, etc." Makes you sound like a martyr, but that's BS too...and I think you both realize that NOW. But nothing should be more important than your significant other and romance...it's the fire that keeps you close.

 

Alas, we are told things by people we deem wise and after you repeat it a few 100 times you stop asking yourself if it's true. "They love me they will never cheat on me." But be practical about it...if you're dying of thirst and I show you water will you not drink? If you are starving and I hand you bread will you not eat? Its simple cause and effect. AGAIN, I DO NOT CONDONE CHEATING. I personally would NEVER do it even if Was sex starved, BUT, I would never be in that position because I wouldn't allow it to happen.

 

If you love someone, you have to constantly show them that you care. People in marriages often get lazy and then are surprised when stuff goes wrong. If you get lazy in life you get fat...if you get lazy in sport you get bested...this stuff shouldn't be SHOCKING and that's why the OP used the word "Naive" because there really isn't any other word for it.

 

SURE you are good people, hard working, responsible, loyal, and those are all to be rewarded and valued...but in that case, you were also naive. I am still bitter that my "all knowing" parents couldn't take advice from a "20 year old" because heaven forbid common sense ringing from a young persons ears was impossible. But sometimes in life, it REALLY is that easy. Why should soccer practice or working late or cleaning the house take priority to pleasuring your wife? Or pleasuring your husband? I fail to see how ANY of those can be even remotely more important.

 

Another thing I hate (statement people say a lot so its true lol) "My kids are the most important thing in the world to me." Well, if that's true, you are a moron who will probably get divorced. EVERY SINGLE COUPLE I know who has been together for 25, 30, 50 years...EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM, always tell me, they LOVED their kids, but their significant other was NUMBER ONE importance to them.

 

That is a FACT. EVERY....SINGLE...One of them...Now, the divorced people I know? "My kids are #1 to me." Well, child worship is what's killing the educational system in this country why not kill the wedding bonds as well.

 

My point is, people can keep patting themselves on the back for loving their kids and being responsible good parents, but if your marriage is falling apart in the back drop, what does it really matter? It's like focusing on painting the bedroom of a 10 room house when the foundation is collapsing below you. Pointless act...Naive act.

 

 

Wonderful post. I only disagree in the fact our experiences are different. Everyone I know who has been married 20+ years put God first, valued and practiced honesty and respect. Put their family and the protection of that family above all things and still make mistakes. They communicate and work through issues, sometimes with outside help. While I agree that the spouses and the marriage are the initial relationship...it does become an extended relationship that effects everyone. Date night is a great idea. Along with telling your partner you feel like cheating. Both offer the partner the opportunity to have input which equals respect of the others role in the relationship.

[chucksagent]

Meandmyself - Please don't confuse my post - cheating is NEVER ok..EVER...EVER...NEVER EVER...My point was like, if your kid tells you he is getting A's but always forgets to bring the test home to show you, something smells, smells bad, smells real bad. THE KID ISNT RIGHT...BUT THE KID IS LYING. Lol. That was my only point. It's EXPECTED but not ACCEPTABLE.

 

Bentnotbroken - I just got the chills....My Uncle and I recently had a talk about the world today...problems in schools, problems in societies, these mass shootings, the way people treat each other in general, etc.

 

And you know what our conclusion was? Morals are GONE.

 

Neither of us are religious people either. AT ALL. But it's like George Carlin said, heck, can't the 10 commandments really be boiled down to 1 or 2?!?

 

Treat people the way you would want to be treated! Aka, don't CHEAT, kill, steal, rape, break into their house, assault, etc.

 

And even MOST religions have common BASE principles. Love each other. Love your God (regardless of who it is). We live in a world of sin...bottom line...It's a SAD thing too at how fast it's evaporating. In the 1960's, you had to have the husband and wife in TWO DIFFERENT BEDS on teleivison...now they can be having sex half naked in the same bed...That happens in 40 years?!?! Lol. TERRIBLE. That is FAST erosion hahah thank god the sea doesnt erode that fast!!!

 

Bentnotbroken - I think if we could fix PEOPLE, we could fix ALL of our problems. We wouldn't need to ban guns, we wouldn't need to ban drugs, we wouldn't need any welfare reform because people wouldn't abuse it and would work hard...people wouldn't be stupid and do drugs...You hit the nail on the head!

[BetrayedH]

Chuckagent,

 

I will respectfully have to agree to disagree with you. My marriage was a "normal" marriage. I have always believed that the marital relationship comes before the children. Don't want a babysitter tonight? Too bad kids, your Mom and I have a date. I was also plenty gracious with affection and more than happy to pleasure my wife. I think you just haven't become convinced that in some cases, it's not the BS that wasn't giving enough. Decorative can point you to some great stuff that indicates that many times, the WS was the overbenefitted partner. The fact is that I was a good husband and a good father. You can't convince me otherwise; I'm a smart guy that's willing to be introspective, has done so, was there and rejected that concept as N/A is my sitch. Could I have done more? Sure. But the relevant fact is that for some people, nothing is ever enough. I challenge you to earn your BS card and then come back and tell us how it was your fault your spouse cheated (or that you should have seen it coming). I was in the same marriage, an involuntarily sexless one, and didn't cheat. How strange. Why the discrepancy? I'll give you a clue...look in the direction of my exwife.

Edited January 22, 2013 by BetrayedH

[OtherWoman1971]

He got married...Years later had an A with you...Now he's divorcing and showed up at your doorstep a week ago.

 

With that said, he's now not been alone to handle the end of his divorce, deal with the ex, his soon to be ex inlaws, house and financial issues..And, like it or not this WILL hit him - He will grieve the loss of his marriage and the life he onced shared with his wife. Instead he's rushed to your side without having alone time to adjust and just to BE on his own. You two have been having an A, which means getting out of the A dynamic is going to be difficult since it's been hidden and taboo for so long.. This IS why it's good to let that dynamic change and die before charging forward into a new relationship with him. Like slow it down and DATE in a proper way.

 

Everything is just so rushed and because of that it makes for a possible unhealthy relationship. He has bad communication skills and obviously has been quite good at lying, manipulating and cheating. Gas lighting his wife and I'm sure along the way he's hurt you too.

 

Trust IS going to be an issue you just can't see that yet. Good luck and just take things SLOWLY. No need to rush into living together and starting a new life so quickly.

 

Thank you for your thoughts. We aren't living together. Both of us are now going through divorces so he is renting a place. I already had my own place. When our divorces are final, we will take the relationship out in the open, introduce each other to our children, etc.

 

We still have a long road but it's progressing. He doesn't seem to grieving but it's early. He seems relieved.

[chucksagent]

BetrayedH

 

Please understand what I am saying. I feel for you and could TOTALLY see that happening to anyone. You could do EVERYTHING right and still get burned. My point is, think of it like poker...Give yourself the MOST "outs" (or in this case "ins") as you can. If you aren't having sex, that is a PROBLEM. A big PROBLEM.

 

Again, I am with you guys...if my Wife and I weren't having sex, I wouldn't cheat EITHER. And I would HOPE she wouldn't either. But if she did, I wouldn't be like "Holy crap, can you believe this?!? One of the most natural human urges wasn't being satisfied for my wife in our bed so she went to another bed to get it."

 

Once again...WRONG...But doesn't surprise me. NOT JUSTIFIED, but not surprised.

 

Another example: Your boss LOVES for you to stay until 7 oclock at night. Even though you get your work done by 5 and you make more sales than anyone else, you KNOW he expects you to stay until 7. One day you get a pink slip. You are shocked because you were tops in sales...but would you be TOTALLY shocked knowing you weren't' satisfying one of his most basic demands??? And I agree even with this hypo - STUPID - you are top salesman, why fire you?!?! CRAZY?!?! Why cheat?!?! CRAZY!!? But neither surprise me.

[nofool4u]

I'm really not trying to create a firestorm here but I have to ask....

 

I've read a lot here and the OW/OM board about naive APs. While I realize cheating is a betrayal, for those BS's who quit being intimate with your spouse, what did you expect to happen? Seriously, if you decided you don't need sex, or rarely want it, how can you be surprised when your spouse looks for sex, and quite frankly, intimacy on other levels, elsewhere?

 

Because too many times, LESS sex is seen as a justification for cheating by the cheaters.

 

You know, after the honeymoon is over, and there are kids involved, things tend to calm down. Raising a family takes a toll.

 

Libidos can be reduced. This is when its time to talk about it. And if they talk about it, and nothing is done, then the potential WS can start thinking of divorce.

 

 

Again, I'm not trying to stir the pot

 

Ya, whatever:rolleyes:

[nofool4u]

I'm not saying you could have prevented it. Again, I asked if any of the BSs on the board made a conscious decision to stop having sex and then were surprised when their spouse cheated.

 

Did it ever occur to you that the reason there might not be sex, aside from family life taking its toll, is that the spouse didn't want to have sex with someone for reasons other than just not wanting sex?

 

Could it be that there was no sex because the other spouse treated them like dirt?

 

In my past situation, I wanted sex all the time. But you didn't see me going off and sticking my member in other women. I was rejected all the time. So what happened? I got used to not having sex.

 

Ah, but then all of a sudden she wasn't getting sex, even though she was the one originally rejecting me. And she used that as her excuse.

 

So yes, it did surprise me. Funny how it was ok for her to deny me, but later was surprised that I had gotten use to her rejections.

Edited January 23, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
removed inappropriate comment

[BetrayedH]

Another example: Your boss LOVES for you to stay until 7 oclock at night. Even though you get your work done by 5 and you make more sales than anyone else, you KNOW he expects you to stay until 7. One day you get a pink slip. You are shocked because you were tops in sales...but would you be TOTALLY shocked knowing you weren't' satisfying one of his most basic demands??? And I agree even with this hypo - STUPID - you are top salesman, why fire you?!?! CRAZY?!?! Why cheat?!?! CRAZY!!? But neither surprise me.

 

The only problem with this example is that the boss pushed me out the door everyday at 430.

 

Trust me, I get what you're saying. If there wasn't regular sex, it shouldn't have been a shocker.

 

From actual experience however, I can tell you that it's unexpected. Try spending nearly 20 years with someone, have them convince you that they have a lower libido than you do, that they are happy with sex about once a month, don't like to feel pressured to do it more often, watch an almost instant transition from wife to mother after the first child is born, look at all of the anecdotal and scientific examples of women having lower libidos, grow to accept the variance in libidos (for the sake of the marriage), and then find out after all that that she suddenly started cheating after about 6 years into selling this story. It was surprising and I wasn't naive. For your sake, I hope it doesn't happen to you.

[Bittersweetie]

watch an almost instant transition from wife to mother after the first child is born

 

BH, if I may ask...could you quickly expand on the above quote on how you think it affected your marriage? I'm working through that right now. Thank you.

[BetrayedH]

BH, if I may ask...could you quickly expand on the above quote on how you think it affected your marriage? I'm working through that right now. Thank you.

 

Well, I can try. My wife and I had perfectly satisfying and frequent sex through 6 1/2 years of our dating and engagement and our first two years of marriage (including her first pregnancy). But once our son was born, it's like I said, something in her flipped like a switch and she transitioned from a wife into a mother. I think it may have started via breastfeeding ("those aren't for you anymore"). We just never recovered from it. The sex died off. I tried taking the initiative; I tried backing off. She claimed she was tired and needed more help around the house to I stepped up. Didn't help. She claimed a low libido. I read about it and figured it was hormonal. It went on for years and it always seemed the target was moving. I asked her to go to counseling. The sense of rejection that I suffered was awful. But it was pretty much the only point of contention in the marriage and so I marched on. At one point I got her some trial meds (Avlimil, I think). No change. It stayed this way until, unbeknownst to me, she started her affair. During our reconciliation (when I discovered she had been having sex with both of us like twice a week), I asked about the libido business. She said that it wasn't that she didn't want to have sex for those 6-7 years; she just didn't want to have sex with me. She didn't have the courage to ever say anything. I had put on a few pounds over the years (5'10" and 200 lbs) but few people would have called me fat. She also said the OM was more dominant in bed and better knew where that line was than I. So in the end, I'm not sure that there ever really was anything to the wife>mother theory or the low libido. There were just several large, bitter pills for me to swallow.

[Furious]

Well, I can try. My wife and I had perfectly satisfying and frequent sex through 6 1/2 years of our dating and engagement and our first two years of marriage (including her first pregnancy). But once our son was born, it's like I said, something in her flipped like a switch and she transitioned from a wife into a mother. I think it may have started via breastfeeding ("those aren't for you anymore"). We just never recovered from it. The sex died off. I tried taking the initiative; I tried backing off. She claimed she was tired and needed more help around the house to I stepped up. Didn't help. She claimed a low libido. I read about it and figured it was hormonal. It went on for years and it always seemed the target was moving. I asked her to go to counseling. The sense of rejection that I suffered was awful. But it was pretty much the only point of contention in the marriage and so I marched on. At one point I got her some trial meds (Avlimil, I think). No change. It stayed this way until, unbeknownst to me, she started her affair. During our reconciliation (when I discovered she had been having sex with

both of us like twice a week), I asked about the libido business. She said that it wasn't that she didn't want to have sex for those 6-7 years; she just didn't want to have sex with me. She didn't have the courage to ever say anything. I had put on a few pounds over the years (5'10" and 200 lbs) but few people would have called me fat. She also said the OM was more dominant in bed and better knew where that line was than I. So in the end, I'm not sure that there ever really was anything to the wife>mother theory or the low libido. There were just several large, bitter pills for me to swallow.

 

 

 

BH

 

I don't buy what your wife said to you.....I think that's how she justified the cheating....I think she has a Madonna-Whore complex, it had nothing to do with you...she's just cruel and malicious to have made you the scapegoat for her own issues.

 

Was she always this mean?

[Bittersweetie]

Well, I can try. My wife and I had perfectly satisfying and frequent sex through 6 1/2 years of our dating and engagement and our first two years of marriage (including her first pregnancy). But once our son was born, it's like I said, something in her flipped like a switch and she transitioned from a wife into a mother. I think it may have started via breastfeeding ("those aren't for you anymore"). We just never recovered from it. The sex died off. I tried taking the initiative; I tried backing off. She claimed she was tired and needed more help around the house to I stepped up. Didn't help. She claimed a low libido. I read about it and figured it was hormonal. It went on for years and it always seemed the target was moving. I asked her to go to counseling. The sense of rejection that I suffered was awful. But it was pretty much the only point of contention in the marriage and so I marched on. At one point I got her some trial meds (Avlimil, I think). No change. It stayed this way until, unbeknownst to me, she started her affair. During our reconciliation (when I discovered she had been having sex with both of us like twice a week), I asked about the libido business. She said that it wasn't that she didn't want to have sex for those 6-7 years; she just didn't want to have sex with me. She didn't have the courage to ever say anything. I had put on a few pounds over the years (5'10" and 200 lbs) but few people would have called me fat. She also said the OM was more dominant in bed and better knew where that line was than I. So in the end, I'm not sure that there ever really was anything to the wife>mother theory or the low libido. There were just several large, bitter pills for me to swallow.

 

I've just read other posters talk about a woman becoming a mother instead of a wife and the effects of that. Since I'm a new mom and we've put a lot of work into our relationship I wanted to learn more about this aspect...maybe I'll start a thread in the Marriage forum. Thanks BH!

[BetrayedH]

BH

 

I don't buy what your wife said to you.....I think that's how she justified the cheating....I think she has a Madonna-Whore complex, it had nothing to do with you...she's just cruel and malicious to have made you the scapegoat for her own issues.

 

Was she always this mean?

 

Sadly, I think these things she said were actually the first bit of real honesty out of her mouth. She was hardly able to talk about the OM or the affair for fear of hurting me (and self-shame/protection). It was said in the heat of a difficult conversation and I would call it more of a slip. I pressured her for honesty and got it.

 

As for her background, she comes from a very entitled family. She likes very nice things, wants to eat at the latest trendy restaraunts and so forth. I didn't identify with it (never wanted much for myself) but if we could afford it, I had no objections. For only having an associates degree, I did fairly well at work (we always made about the same income ~$60k each) but I think she got a taste of what it would be like to have an executive's life and I don't fit the bill. Once she got that lifestyle in mind, I think I became the epitomy of what was stopping her from having it. I don't think I ever would have called her mean although she never was the empathetic type. I saw her as a bit emotionally immature but again, never saw it as a threat and assumed I was probably just more introspective and empathetic than most. I underestimated her sense of entitlement and when that's combined with a lack of empathy, well, you can see what happened. She went off to take care of herself and eventually went so far in the rabbit hole that she got busted. She didn't count on that and couldn't handle facing it (or facing me).

[BetrayedH]

I've just read other posters talk about a woman becoming a mother instead of a wife and the effects of that. Since I'm a new mom and we've put a lot of work into our relationship I wanted to learn more about this aspect...maybe I'll start a thread in the Marriage forum. Thanks BH!

 

It was a tough post to write but you're welcome. If it helps you in your relationship, it will have been worth it.

[Act Two]

I've just read other posters talk about a woman becoming a mother instead of a wife and the effects of that. Since I'm a new mom and we've put a lot of work into our relationship I wanted to learn more about this aspect...maybe I'll start a thread in the Marriage forum. Thanks BH!

 

I'm going to pipe in with some advice on this one as I continue my own marital autopsy.

 

Please do NOT put your marriage after the kids. Take a lot of time for each other even if you have to pay a lot for babysitting and don't feel guilty about that. Don't put their sports, activities or anything else in front of your primary relationship.

[Furious]

Sadly, I think these things she said were actually the first bit of real honesty out of her mouth. She was hardly able to talk about the OM or the affair for fear of hurting me (and self-shame/protection). It was said in the heat of a difficult conversation and I would call it more of a slip. I pressured her for honesty and got it.

 

As for her background, she comes from a very entitled family. She likes very nice things, wants to eat at the latest trendy restaraunts and so forth. I didn't identify with it (never wanted much for myself) but if we could afford it, I had no objections. For only having an associates degree, I did fairly well at work (we always made about the same income ~$60k each) but I think she got a taste of what it would be like to have an executive's

life and I don't fit the bill. Once she got that lifestyle in mind, I think I became the epitomy of what was stopping her from having it. I don't think I ever would have called her mean

although she never was the empathetic type. I saw her as a bit emotionally

immature but again, never saw it as a threat and assumed I was probably just more introspective and empathetic than most. I underestimated her sense of entitlement and when that's combined with a lack of empathy, well, you can see what happened. She went off to take care of herself and

eventually went so far in the rabbit hole that she got busted. She didn't count on that and couldn't handle facing it (or facing me).

 

 

I remember you saying that in the early months, which unknown to you was a false reconciliation, your wife turned toward her religion and attended weekly mass, while bringing her affair underground and still lying to you.

 

I just think BH your wife's cheating seems two dimensional, the good girl and the bad girl, that there seems more of a Madonna-Whore conflict that gave her a rush. I really think your wife unjustly and cruelly cast your role as the antagonist of the good girl and refused to see it any other way.

 

I hope you put to rest that you weren't rough enough or dominant enough. You were a part of the good girl persona, she compartmentalized your role in her duality. I hope you realize that the blow to your self esteem was unjustified.

 

I don't know if this makes sense, it's just how I see it.

Edited January 24, 2013 by Furious

[BetrayedH]

I remember you saying that in the early months, which unknown to you was a false reconciliation, your wife turned toward her religion and attended weekly mass, while bringing her affair underground and still lying to you.

 

I just think BH your wife's cheating seems two dimensional, the good girl and the bad girl, that there seems more of a Madonna-Whore conflict that gave her a rush. I really think your wife unjustly and cruelly cast your role as the antagonist of the good girl and refused to see it any other way.

 

I hope you put to rest that you weren't rough enough or dominant enough. You were a part of the good girl persona, she compartmentalized your role in her duality. I hope you realize that the blow to your self esteem was unjustified.

 

I don't know if this makes sense, it's just how I see it.

 

Well, you nailed the whore part. And I suppose the church bit lends toward the Madonna piece. I'm sure you're right about this complex being part of the equation (and one I don't often analyze). To be honest, I'm kinda done trying to figure her out and that's a good thing.

 

I think it might have been you that said (in another thread) that being cheated on and subsequently divorced by the cheater is a special/double betrayal. I can tell you that it's very true. The utter rejection of me by someone that knew me so well was very difficult to accept and having the rejection connected to my physical appearance and sexual ability (or lack thereof) sure as hell didn't help. Severely bruised my ego and damaged my self-esteem, to be sure.

 

But again, I've reached a point of acceptance with all of this that I'm not willing to trade back. In general, I've accepted that my wife was pretty whacked, it's not really my fault, and that I'm probably never going to comprehend it all. I feel like Taramaiden should step in with something like, "Closure comes from within." It sure isn't going to come from my wife. I got there on my own and other than the normal peaks and valleys of life, I'm good with it.

 

I guess what I would say is two things:

 

(1) Don't worry too much about my ego/self-esteem. I may not be classically handsome like Brad Pitt but I'm a pretty decent looking guy and I've got my niche. And when it comes to sex, I know she won't find a man who is more generous in bed (or as skilled at, um, certain things). In short, good luck to her finding a better man. I may have had some flaws but I was the total package. My ego is intact.

 

(2) I'll give the Madonna/Whore thing a looksee. I have tended to think that this had more to do with men and how they viewed their wives (as Madonna, not a whore) so they went and found a whore on the side. But there is some real truth to her presenting one thing and secretly being something else. I'd like to comprehend that a little better. In general, I do know that it's more about her than it is me.

 

Mostly I just want you to know I'm grateful for what you're doing. I appreciate the personal support and I know I have a lot of it here. It's remarkable, really, and restores some of my faith in people. Fortunately, while my wife threw a lot of shi t at me, not much of it stuck. By the way, there's a "thank you" in there somewhere in case it's not obvious.

[beenburned]

BH,

 

Our FOO can really effect how we view things as an adult. I think this is what happened to your wife.I've seen it over and over again in real life with lots of people.

 

If you grew up poor or middle class, you never knew how different life could be as a child in a rich family. These children grow up and marry, and constantly strive to obtain all that their parents provided them.

 

When they never reach this level of wealth, they begin to get frustrated missing all they grew up with. They are naturally draw to men of wealth and power, as a way to obtain their goals in life.

 

I don't think it is rejection as you" the person", but a longing/missing their old lifestyle.

[BetrayedH]

BH,

 

Our FOO can really effect how we view things as an adult. I think this is what happened to your wife.I've seen it over and over again in real life with lots of people.

 

If you grew up poor or middle class, you never knew how different life could be as a child in a rich family. These children grow up and marry, and constantly strive to obtain all that their parents provided them.

 

When they never reach this level of wealth, they begin to get frustrated missing all they grew up with. They are naturally draw to men of wealth and power, as a way to obtain their goals in life.

 

I don't think it is rejection as you" the person", but a longing/missing their old lifestyle.

 

Oh, I agree. This whole thing with her is one big FOO issue. My parents were poor when I was young and middle class by the time I finished HS. In comparison, my wife's family takes two international vacations each year (St Maarten and Italy). I thought we did ok. We had taken an 8-day vacation to Maui (no kids) about a year prior to her starting her affair. We probably averaged two decent vacations a year, had our own home that we had built, had two new cars. But I guess for some, it's just never going to be enough. Oh well, it's her damn problem now. Not to worry, her parents will take care of it all.

[nofool4u]

Thank you for your thoughts. We aren't living together. Both of us are now going through divorces so he is renting a place. I already had my own place. When our divorces are final, we will take the relationship out in the open, introduce each other to our children, etc.

 

We still have a long road but it's progressing. He doesn't seem to grieving but it's early. He seems relieved.

 

And you are telling this to a group of BS's, or x-BS's, who you called naive, for what purpose exactly?

[Decorative]

And you are telling this to a group of BS's, or x-BS's, who you called naive, for what purpose exactly?

 

To try and get a reaction. So that she can feel better about a relationship built on quicksand. The defense of it will give her a temporary boost.

[nofool4u]

To try and get a reaction. So that she can feel better about a relationship built on quicksand. The defense of it will give her a temporary boost.

 

Well the disclaimer that she wasn't posting this to stir up the pot I don't believe has fooled anyone.

[chucksagent]

I think you guys are being unfair to OtherWoman1971. I honestly do.

 

The point of these boards is for candid honesty. Some of you are acting like middle schooler's responding to name calling. Being naive doesn't have to be a permanent state of mind! Lol

 

We have ALL been naive during our lives. Granted, some people are naive in general, but some of us can miss the forest for the tree's for many different reasons.

 

I once dated a CRAZY/HORRIBLE woman. But she had LARGE fake breasts, an amazing butt, and a super thing waist. She was like a genetic freak (with the help from the fake breasts) and my god did she know her way around the bedroom.

 

I passed the bar exam first try without studying. I am a litigation attorney. I am not stupid and I am not naive. I stayed with this girl because she was open and honest with me about her childhood and self esteem issues which caused some of her craziness/cruelty. My brain told me to walk away...But my heart made me naive in hoping she could change since she identified her problems and claimed to be working on them. (Her mother would verbally abuse her in ways that haunt me to this day - and we haven't been together in a LONG time). Maybe my heart had some help from you know where (not my brain) because she was so darn sexy...but nonetheless...

 

I was NAIVE to think someone in their mid 30's could change just because I wanted them to. Such deep seeded abuse that had already taken hold of her soul and MADE her the very person she is today. That isn't something you can just wipe clean. Not to mention, just because I felt bad and HOPE she could be redeemed, that isn't MY PROBLEM that her mother screwed her up. I should have RUN away when I figured out why she could be 100% nice one minute then FLIP the next minute. We weren't married or engaged, we were just dating...NAIVE MOVE on my behalf.

 

You are naive when the writing is on the wall and you choose to ignore it.

 

I mean, for crying out loud, if you aren't having fun, you aren't going on dates, you aren't being intimate...and NOTHING seems strange to you? Maybe the fact that just considering you were Naive upsets you this much proves just how Naive you can be.

 

One thing I learned about relationships, it's NEVER 100% one persons fault. I actually DESPISE cheating. I have been cheated on (at an early age so not as bad) and it's made me jealous at time to this day which I HATE about myself. But if my wife and I aren't laughing, aren't going out on dates and having fun, and not having sex...then someone tells me she cheated, I can't imagine a world where I'm blown away with shock. Maybe I'd be blown away with how cruel and evil she can be because I hoped our vows meant more to her...but I wouldn't be like "wow, never saw that coming."

 

And to just make broad statements like "That would mean you don't trust her." That just silly propaganda talk. Like "if you really loved her/me you would...," or "True love can conquer all." Nice sentiments, but this is the real world. If people took their vow's that seriously, there wouldn't be 55% divorce rate, there wouldn't be people saying "god damn" because that's using the lords name in vein and the vows are before God Almighty. Lol so c'mon...let's not be silly.

 

In conclusion...as much as I DESPISE cheating...I agree with Otherwoman1971, that I wish people took more seriously their romantic/intimate requirements as they did stupid stuff like Karate, work, soccer practice, gardening, etc. As my earlier example illustrated, all that stuff is just rooms in a house...Your romance/intimacy is the FOUNDATION of all that other stuff is built on.

 

Allowing your foundation of your house to erode and then being SURPRISED when the whole house collapses in on itself is Naive...I'm sorry, that's just the way it is.