Lue Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 So here's my story... 6 months ago I met this guy at the grocery store and we struck up a conversation. I asked for his number and texted him a few days later, and we began a very intense relationship. We literally talked on the phone and email constantly every day. I wanted to take things slow and really build this relationship because I felt such chemistry between us. We didnt go out on a date for about a month and a half after meeting, and we didnt have sex until at least the 5th or 6th date. I told him that while I think sex is a very important part of a relationship I don't like to do it until I feel there is a mutual emotional connection and respect and he agreed wholeheartedly. And it was amazing; not kinky or wild by any means but just a very deep feeling of contentment and connection- far deeper than I've ever felt before. And he repeatedly commented on it as well About a week after we had sex for the first time our relationship really got serious. My mother was diagnosed withe terminal cancer, and I told him and he was my rock. He was way beyond helpful and supportive and went out of his way to let me know this. I had to go away for 6 weeks to be with my mom and he sent me flowers. He watched my house. He told me he loved me for the first time and that he wanted a future with me. All of this was spontaneous- I am a very guarded person and would never have said I love you first. Or that I wanted children with him. It was all initiated by him. When I got back from my mothers funeral, things ramped up even more. He came over all the time, we went out with my friends. At Christmas he was at my house every day from 12-22 to 12-26 (and at times of the day it would have been hard to get away). He started talking about our future. He met my family. The only thing that was bothering me was that I hadn't met his or been to his house. However, he told me he lived with his dying grandfather who was in hospice and was dying at the house. And that all the family was there and it might take a month or so but then when everything was over he'd introduce us. Two weeks ago I found out he's married. He's been married for 6 years; he's known the girl since he was 18. And I ended the relationship. I also had to tell his wife because when I found out who she is I realized I know her. She's very good friends with two of my close friends. I never put two and two together because they don't wear rings and they have different last names. A week after I told his wife, he called me. He said he was sorry; things progresses really fast and he fell in love with me and with everything going on he didnt know how to tell me. He also said that he and his wife have been unhappy for 3 years and he wants to get out but doesn't know how because they have so much history. Oh- and they don't have any kids or property. I guess that's a big issue- they're 39 and he wants kids and a house and she adamantly does not want that. So...I told him that I still loved him and if the things he said were truthful and he wanted to leave his wife and be with me we could discuss it. But I don't get into affairs with married men. He said he needed to think about it and work it out, but that he thought he wanted to do it. I made it very clear that I would not see him or sleep with him until he figured it out- but he keeps texting me sweet romantic messages. I think clearly for him, the emotional component of this affair is the biggest need this affair is filling. I really don't think he's going to leave his wife. I've already told him that he has until this Thurs to decide. But my question is- why would he do this??? I'm not easy; I'm not easy sexually and I'm not easy emotionally. I am very very guarded. In this relationship I opened up to a whole new level of intimacy with him and I did this at his prompting. Because he was so loving and affectionate and shared so many parts of his life (which he did; he literally told me everything about his family and past except for the fact that he was married) I felt safe to do the same. And it wasnt fair to do that to me; I thought he was my boyfriend and we were establishing this level of intimacy to build a life together. So why would a guy- a seemingly nice guy, close to his family, not a serial cheater- lie to create this level of intimacy with someone???
wisernow Posted January 19, 2013 Posted January 19, 2013 Welcome to LS, Lue. First, I'm so sorry for the situation you find yourself. This guy is a douche. I really hope you see that. To me, he is the worst type of cheater. His omission of the fact that he is married served no one but himself. He knew (could probably tell instantly) that you were not the kind of woman that would engage in an affair with a mm. His level of deceit is off the chart. Second, I hope, hope, hope you will dump this loser. He has shown you exactly who he is, the lack of character, the deception....He used you to get what he wanted, sex, emotional connection, whatever. He lied, and used you. Even if he divorced, would you ever be able to fully trust him? 3
Author Lue Posted January 19, 2013 Author Posted January 19, 2013 It's just so devastating to me...and I feel like I'm somehow at fault. For trusting him, for still loving him, for secretly nourishing this hope that he'll leave her and choose me. And I agree on both parts- he is troubled. He knows that too- he starts counseling on thurs. As for the entitlement thing...I hadn't thought of it that way but last week when I said to him that I understood the need he has to never let anyone down and how that probably was affecting his decision making he vehemently said "don't I deserve some happiness too! Don't I deserve attention and love?". So you're probably right... How do I get past this? I feel ashamed and betrayed and heartbroken. And I'm the other woman (even if I didn't know it) so no one really cares. I feel very expendable. Plus, I'm 33. I want to get married and have a family, and I want that deep connection and intimacy I felt with him. But if it was difficult for me to let someone in before...it just feels impossible now.
Tenacity Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 I too am so sorry you are having to go through this. You did nothing to deserve this kind of treatment. I agree with wisernow and Pierre. This is the worst kind of deceipt and is the measure of a true narcissist. He didn't care what he was doing to you or to her; he only thought about himself. He wanted for you to get close to him because once he knew that you were emotionally invested, it would be harder for you to let go even though he's married. He isn't going to leave his wife, or he would have done it already. You may love this man, but he has shown you what kind of character he has, and that he is not worth your trust. You would be avoiding a whole lot of wasted time and pain if you walk away now. Please don't waste any more precious time on this man. 4
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 As for why he hasn't left her...he says he wants to but things are difficult because he's very entangled with her family (they actually live with her grandparents). And there's a lot of debt because of his student loans. And they're very very catholic. So he just wants me to give him a few weeks to settle his affairs. He wanted to wait until he went to his first therapy appt first and talked about it, and its hard to get counseling appointments the same week (hes going this thurs).He's supposed to talk to his dad about it tomorrow. I actually keep intentionally throwing some mental roadblocks his way; I don't want him to think this will be easy, leave his wife and shack up with me for two months, and then go back to her. And I also know that sometimes people do make mistakes; my mother was married when she met my father (although he didnt know it for years). But the difference is that my mom left her husband when he found out; she made a decision and acted on it. I feel like there is a teeny tinsy chance he will leave her. That he made a mistake when they got married and then fell in love with me. But I think it's probably more likely that he's trying to either butter me up so I give in and see him again, or he's ok not being physical because its the emotional connection and validation that he needs.
wisernow Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 It's just so devastating to me...and I feel like I'm somehow at fault. For trusting him, for still loving him, for secretly nourishing this hope that he'll leave her and choose me. And I agree on both parts- he is troubled. He knows that too- he starts counseling on thurs. As for the entitlement thing...I hadn't thought of it that way but last week when I said to him that I understood the need he has to never let anyone down and how that probably was affecting his decision making he vehemently said "don't I deserve some happiness too! Don't I deserve attention and love?". So you're probably right... How do I get past this? I feel ashamed and betrayed and heartbroken. And I'm the other woman (even if I didn't know it) so no one really cares. I feel very expendable. Plus, I'm 33. I want to get married and have a family, and I want that deep connection and intimacy I felt with him. But if it was difficult for me to let someone in before...it just feels impossible now. I say get Madea mad. When he tries to contact you (and he will) just tell him to f himself. I'd rescind the date you gave him of next Thursday. I'd contact him tonight. Tell him that you don't hang out with or date, lying bastards, and that it's OVER. Tell him, not to contact you ever again, EVER. Even if he's single, you're not interested. I know you're bruised right now, your trust and heart have been broken. Grieve, get mad, cry, then press on. You are stronger than you know. I think you'll feel better if you take all your power back and not waste one more minute on this loser. (((Lue))) 2
Tenacity Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 As for why he hasn't left her...he says he wants to but things are difficult because he's very entangled with her family (they actually live with her grandparents). And there's a lot of debt because of his student loans. And they're very very catholic. So he just wants me to give him a few weeks to settle his affairs. He wanted to wait until he went to his first therapy appt first and talked about it, and its hard to get counseling appointments the same week (hes going this thurs).He's supposed to talk to his dad about it tomorrow. Read and re-read this paragraph of yours. Do you see that the whole thing is just your justifying to yourself and wanting to believe him? This is an impressive lists of "why I can't get a divorce" - even a few new ones thrown in there that I haven't seen yet. You seem very intelligent. Please see the excuses for what they are - excuses. You said yourself that you mother made a decision and acted on it. This is just more game-playing and stalling from him. He is in prime position to get a divorce if he wanted one. If people want to be with someone else, they will move heaven and earth to do it. I don't know why you can't see how terrible this man's lying to you has been, but you seem to be willing to make an allowance for it as long as he leaves his wife. Do you see that even if that happens, he made a complete fool out of you, manipulated you, to serve his own purposes? Don't you see that he took your life and choices away from you with the lies? 2
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 Why do I think he's a catch? That's a very very good question... I guess because I feel something I've never felt for anyone before now. And I didn't know it was possible to love someone the way I loved him. And because I'm afraid no one will ever love me that way or make me feel that again. And because I enjoyed every second of every minute we were together. I guess it's also because he treated me like his wife; or like I always thought men should treat their wives. He was sweet and affectionate; he'd bring me dinner and rub my back when I had cramps. The 6 weeks I was gone he didnt just watch my house- he cleaned it from top to bottom. He changed the smoke detectors and installed a carbon monoxide detector. He went grocery shopping and made sure my freshly cleaned fridge was stocked with my favorite foods. And he did these things without any hinting or prompting. He did them because he cared for me, even if he's a mess and his love for me was dysfunctional
truthbetold Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 So here's my story... 6 months ago I met this guy at the grocery store and we struck up a conversation. I asked for his number and texted him a few days later, and we began a very intense relationship. We literally talked on the phone and email constantly every day. I wanted to take things slow and really build this relationship because I felt such chemistry between us. We didnt go out on a date for about a month and a half after meeting, and we didnt have sex until at least the 5th or 6th date. I told him that while I think sex is a very important part of a relationship I don't like to do it until I feel there is a mutual emotional connection and respect and he agreed wholeheartedly. And it was amazing; not kinky or wild by any means but just a very deep feeling of contentment and connection- far deeper than I've ever felt before. And he repeatedly commented on it as well About a week after we had sex for the first time our relationship really got serious. My mother was diagnosed withe terminal cancer, and I told him and he was my rock. He was way beyond helpful and supportive and went out of his way to let me know this. I had to go away for 6 weeks to be with my mom and he sent me flowers. He watched my house. He told me he loved me for the first time and that he wanted a future with me. All of this was spontaneous- I am a very guarded person and would never have said I love you first. Or that I wanted children with him. It was all initiated by him. When I got back from my mothers funeral, things ramped up even more. He came over all the time, we went out with my friends. At Christmas he was at my house every day from 12-22 to 12-26 (and at times of the day it would have been hard to get away). He started talking about our future. He met my family. The only thing that was bothering me was that I hadn't met his or been to his house. However, he told me he lived with his dying grandfather who was in hospice and was dying at the house. And that all the family was there and it might take a month or so but then when everything was over he'd introduce us. Two weeks ago I found out he's married. He's been married for 6 years; he's known the girl since he was 18. And I ended the relationship. I also had to tell his wife because when I found out who she is I realized I know her. She's very good friends with two of my close friends. I never put two and two together because they don't wear rings and they have different last names. A week after I told his wife, he called me. He said he was sorry; things progresses really fast and he fell in love with me and with everything going on he didnt know how to tell me. He also said that he and his wife have been unhappy for 3 years and he wants to get out but doesn't know how because they have so much history. Oh- and they don't have any kids or property. I guess that's a big issue- they're 39 and he wants kids and a house and she adamantly does not want that. So...I told him that I still loved him and if the things he said were truthful and he wanted to leave his wife and be with me we could discuss it. But I don't get into affairs with married men. He said he needed to think about it and work it out, but that he thought he wanted to do it. I made it very clear that I would not see him or sleep with him until he figured it out- but he keeps texting me sweet romantic messages. I think clearly for him, the emotional component of this affair is the biggest need this affair is filling. I really don't think he's going to leave his wife. I've already told him that he has until this Thurs to decide. But my question is- why would he do this??? I'm not easy; I'm not easy sexually and I'm not easy emotionally. I am very very guarded. In this relationship I opened up to a whole new level of intimacy with him and I did this at his prompting. Because he was so loving and affectionate and shared so many parts of his life (which he did; he literally told me everything about his family and past except for the fact that he was married) I felt safe to do the same. And it wasnt fair to do that to me; I thought he was my boyfriend and we were establishing this level of intimacy to build a life together. So why would a guy- a seemingly nice guy, close to his family, not a serial cheater- lie to create this level of intimacy with someone??? No, no, NO. This is why you feel conflicted you are "starting" to compromise your values and YOUR principles. You already know he failed a big time requirement in honesty of a relationship. So what if it was by omission in the beginning. If anything I could have said you could have done differently I would say it would have been to ask if he was in a relationship/married instead of assuming he wasn't by his pursuit. BUT your past choices do not define your future. You sound like you have a very level head, so DO NOT get weak for someone like him. Right now, he's broken what I hope would be a deal breaker for you, so that's it, his loss and YOU move on. It doesn't seem like there's anything really for you to fix in yourself, you got caught up in a con man, but if you make excuses for him, well now the onus WILL be on you as that's now YOUR choice to get involved. You said he don't want to open up again. DON'T think that way. As I said to another poster, he took a piece of your past, DON'T let him take your future. YOU create your future with good choices. Create deal breakers for the next relationship. Now you know some warning flags. (too good to be true) I am not a OW or BS, but because I've dated losers that's why I feel a connection here more than any other spot on the boards to try to help. I'm v happy now, but it took work on my part to find MY happiness on my own. My husband is very much a gentleman but in no way is he "smooth" (unless dancing!) or a charmer:laugh: . But after I healed myself and was on my own for a bit (again, you are not broken and don't necessarily have a crap man picker as I did) I made a list in my head of my absolutes, my dealbreakers, my "like to haves" and "if" I met him, great, but if I didn't it wouldn't destroy my world. If anyone had me questioning ANYTHING then it was NEXT! When you create your dealbreakers you are creating your boundaries. When you do that and stick to them then people know you respect yourself therefore warrant respect. In the case that you gave him until Thursday, you are weakening your position. We TEACH others how to treat us by what we will and won't tolerate. DEMAND better for yourself. I wish you peace and joy! 1
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 But you're all right...I know you are.
Decorative Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Why do I think he's a catch? That's a very very good question... I guess because I feel something I've never felt for anyone before now. And I didn't know it was possible to love someone the way I loved him. And because I'm afraid no one will ever love me that way or make me feel that again. And because I enjoyed every second of every minute we were together. I guess it's also because he treated me like his wife; or like I always thought men should treat their wives. He was sweet and affectionate; he'd bring me dinner and rub my back when I had cramps. The 6 weeks I was gone he didnt just watch my house- he cleaned it from top to bottom. He changed the smoke detectors and installed a carbon monoxide detector. He went grocery shopping and made sure my freshly cleaned fridge was stocked with my favorite foods. And he did these things without any hinting or prompting. He did them because he cared for me, even if he's a mess and his love for me was dysfunctional Those are all things my husband did for his other woman. And even more than that. Those actions aren't about you, though they feel like they are. They are about the positive mirroring he is getting from your attention. And I know it feels amazing. But a man who does that is very likely an untreated personality disorder ( which requires a huge amount of work to be managed. Huge.) I could give you a long list of what my spouse did. And to be fair- the OW in my situation didn't have the character ( she had done it prior to my husband, and again while she was with my husband) you are demonstrating in informing the betrayed spouse. But this story doesn't have a happy ending. He didn't tell you the truth about himself- and when it came out - he didn't not take immediate action to change it. He could if he wanted to. He is only giving you excuses. And he is disrespecting you horribly by presuming you would wait more than 30 seconds for him to act honorably. You deserve much, much more than this. 1
truthbetold Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 If he had children, he would have said, I have to wait till the kids finnish college and grad school. If he had a mortgage, he would have said we have properties. If the wife was ill he would have use her illness as an excuse. I guess he used his grandad. He says he is Catholic as an excuse. He is no Catholic as in religion. He may be of Catholic background, but religious people do not do adultery. How convenient to use his Catholicism. i asume you went with him to mass every Sunday and of course did midnight mass on the 24th of December. What a big crock! Student loans!!!! Ha, ha, that is new one. So having student loans prevents people from getting a divorce. He is 39, so he has been out of college for for a long time. He is BSing you big time. Living with the grandparents should make the divorce easier, not more difficult. There is no marital home, nothing. Why are you buying all this crap? Do you realize that he is still lying BIG TIME. He is making a fool of you. He is a narcissist. Please look it up. A few weeks to settle his affairs. Is he seeing other women? What affairs? This man is 39 and still lives with his grandparents. Does he look like someone that has his s**** together? Still living with family at age 39!! WOW!! Time to ask you a question: Why do you think this man is a catch? The bolded I agree with BIG TIME! I am insulted that he uses his Catholicism as a cloak to be worn and taken off as it suits him. TRUE Catholics WALK THE WALK, as best they can. It absolutely makes me when people use ANY religion to justify what they're doing let alone Catholics. You can't cherry pick truths in the Bible to suit your needs. I'm saddened to read your last post that you are "hoping" that he made a mistake with his marriage and are holding out hope that he will be with you. A man like this will not give you true happiness, but you may need to figure that out on your own. I wish you well and to find truth in your actions. 2
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 I just sent him a text message saying I was sorry but I couldn't do it. I can't do this. And that I know he won't leave his wife because if he wanted to he would have done it in Oct while I was gone and he figured out he was in love with me. I guess now...what do I do?
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 I meant more- what do I do to get on with the rest of my life? How do you trust someone again?
wisernow Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 I just sent him a text message saying I was sorry but I couldn't do it. I can't do this. And that I know he won't leave his wife because if he wanted to he would have done it in Oct while I was gone and he figured out he was in love with me. I guess now...what do I do? I hope you also added in your text that you don't want a liar in your life. I personally would have left the whole part about him not leaving his wife out of it. That leaves the door open for further attempts at conversation and lies on his part. Did you also tell him not to contact you EVER again?
wisernow Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 First things first: 1. You go on absolute and strict no contact (NC). This means you don't talk to him, text, write emails, etc. You change your phone number and email so he cannot text or write you. 2. You Develop a line of communication with the wife and every time he tries to communicate you tell the wife. This will prevent him from seeking you. You will verify he is likely pleading with his wife not to leave him. Yes, these men talk from both sides of the mouth. Once you have been in absolute NC for six months you will feel better. BUt, don't forget----NC with this man is for life. Regarding your ability to trust. Seek counseling. Women that are insecure and with self esteem issues crave external validation. These craving makes them susceptible to philanderers. That is why these women say I don't know how to pick good men. They don't know because they are susceptible to charm and smoothness. A health secure woman with good self esteem has no problems finding good men because she is instantly repulsed by philandering players. That is how you learn to trust someone. In retrospect you made some erros. You did not ask to see if he was involved and you did not bother to check. So you picked incorrectly because he charmed you way too much. Too much charm is repulsive for health secure women. Geez Pierre! I hardly think she is "insecure" with "self esteem" issues. I know that is your "go to" line when women get involved in a's. She didn't seek out or put off any vibes that she had some personality flaw to this lying asshat. No, HE LIED TO HER! Get it???? 1
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 I told him I knew he wasn't going to leave his wife, and that he knew it too. And I said that I needed his love to validate my worth, and he needed my attention because it validated his worth and that wasnt healthy and that it was recipe for disaster. And then I said I was sorry but I just couldn't do this and I wished him the best of luck
Charlie Harper Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Even if he divorced, would you ever be able to fully trust him? THIS ^ Now you work on yourself, not all people will lie to you and learn to have your eyes wide open, for telling signs of lies.
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 And Pierre is actually right. I do have self esteem issues. I was raped by two guys at a party in college, and I didn't tell anyone because I was really ashamed. I recently started therapy for this, so I guess I need to stick to the therapy. I just couldn't figure out why someone would lie so much about loving me. I never thought about the fact that by making me love him he was somehow proving to himself that he was lovable. I just assumed all cheaters wanted was sex- I never thought of them looking for affection and love as a primary motivator. At least, not male cheaters 1
Mount Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Pierre you seems to use low self esteem to define most the OWs that involved with A. What if a woman tried to get close to MM (at that time not MM yet), sending gifts, inviting MM to private lunch, eventually the relationship turned to be Affair, how do you define that woman? Yes, he lied. but past the d-day she is acting a bit like a typical woman that has low self esteem. That is no crime, but these philanderers prey on women with low self esteem. Maybe we can ask OP if she has self esteem issues. But, I believe she does. No crime and no loss of honor, we are all human and in the same boat. And it is my go to line because many posters admit to this.
wisernow Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Yes, he lied. but past the d-day she is acting a bit like a typical woman that has low self esteem. That is no crime, but these philanderers prey on women with low self esteem. Maybe we can ask OP if she has self esteem issues. But, I believe she does. No crime and no loss of honor, we are all human and in the same boat. And it is my go to line because many posters admit to this. Well, give her a minute to get over it before you go on with all your labels. I think she's behaved pretty damn well considering what this lying man put her through. Of course, after all this, she may very well have some self esteem issues to deal with. Lying, mm can do that.
Decorative Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Pierre you seems to use low self esteem to define most the OWs that involved with A. What if a woman tried to get close to MM (at that time not MM yet), sending gifts, inviting MM to private lunch, eventually the relationship turned to be Affair, how do you define that woman? As even more unhealthy. That's low self esteem, and some issues with boundaries and unhealthy competition. In my neck of the woods, we call them spider women. But this is off topic for the poster. If you wish to discuss you again- start another thread.
Decorative Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 And Pierre is actually right. I do have self esteem issues. I was raped by two guys at a party in college, and I didn't tell anyone because I was really ashamed. I recently started therapy for this, so I guess I need to stick to the therapy. I just couldn't figure out why someone would lie so much about loving me. I never thought about the fact that by making me love him he was somehow proving to himself that he was lovable. I just assumed all cheaters wanted was sex- I never thought of them looking for affection and love as a primary motivator. At least, not male cheaters I commend you for taking the steps to move forward and work on you. It's not easy.
Author Lue Posted January 20, 2013 Author Posted January 20, 2013 Pierre- I do have self-esteem issues. I was raped by two guys at a party in college, and I never told anyone because I was so ashamed. And they spread horrible rumors about me and I just pushed it down. I am actually in therapy currently, I only started though two weeks ago because of this whole mess. I never thought about men needing the emotional response as a validator to their self worth but you are 100% correct. Quite honestly, I never thought he was a cheater 1). Because I thought cheaters just wanted sex and that seemed to be his last concern and 2). Because he didnt look like a cheater. He was kinda nerdy and awkward in a very charming and endearing manner. But I do t look like a rape victim with low self-esteem (in fact I do everything possible to look very pulled together at all times). So appearances don't mean everything
Mount Posted January 20, 2013 Posted January 20, 2013 Yes, I agree I might have, because nowaday media feeds us we are not perfect. Everyone should have been beautiful as those models or live like "whatever wives" or Kardashian family those kind of lives, otherwise if we can not do that, we are losers in real life. So how can we not be low self esteem. The posts I wrote a few months, when my needs did not meet, I vented; otherwise it is the opposite, hope you know what I mean. Not all OWs have low self esteem. I never implied all. But, if you read the forum many have low self esteem. So what? It is no crime to have low self esteem. All of us have self esteem issues at some point. I have read your posts and guess what? You too have low self esteem. You put up with a lot of crap. But, as I said no one is perfect and there is no loss of honor for not being perfect. All we can do is try to get better.
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