Some traditions never change.

January 19, 2013

I have noticed that some traditional relationship expectations have not changed. Despite the fact that feminism resulted in a huge shift in the way men and women relate to each other, I believe that most men and women still desire some traditional realities in their marriages.

For example, even though women can have high flying careers and support themselves, most women do not want a husband who is financially irresponsible and stingy. It is also still rare to see a man give up his career to raise children.

Although men can cook and clean for themselves, I think that most men still want a woman with domestic skills. Women still do the lion's share of housework and child rearing, whether they are employed outside the home or not.

More than 60% of women change their surnames when they marry. Most men want to marry women who have been relatively chaste, even they have not been. This is certainly problematic.

I'm not saying that tradition should play a role in marriages today. It is up to the couple to agree on the aforementioned aspects of marriage. I am basing my views only on what I see in marriages that I am aware of. I realize that other people may be familiar with more modern marriages.

My marriage is a mix of traditional and modern values. My husband helps with housework; however I do most of the cooking and chores. I am working towards a better career in college, yet my husband will always earn double what I will when I am finished. I took his last name of my own volition and I love doing nurturing things for my hubby.

I appreciate the way my husband does not try to control me with money or his age. He also doesn't harshly judge me for having a sexual past or a high sex drive; my husband's way of thinking is very evolved and fair.

What do LS members think? Have some traditional aspects of marriage remained the same for this society and generation?

January 19, 2013

I have noticed that some traditional relationship expectations have not changed. Despite the fact that feminism resulted in a huge shift in the way men and women relate to each other, I believe that most men and women still desire some traditional realities in their marriages.

For example, even though women can have high flying careers and support themselves, most women do not want a husband who is financially irresponsible and stingy.

That sounds horrible, I earn twice what he does (currently) so if he's stingy it doesn't affect my life at all, but it's not a very attractive trait in a man OR woman.

It is also still rare to see a man give up his career to raise children.

This is a slow burner, there are big moves in attitude between each generation. This is coming. And in any case, I also don't know any women who want to give up their career, those I am friends with want to put it on hold or continue with their career and share child care.

Although men can cook and clean for themselves, I think that most men still want a woman with domestic skills. Women still do the lion's share of housework and child rearing, whether they are employed outside the home or not.

I know of a few families where the woman does the most and it's very visible that this is the case, but I also know more where the guy does equal or more (my house being one of them, I'm happy to say).

More than 60% of women change their surnames when they marry. [/Quote]

My assumption (based on nothing) is that it would not long ago have been nearly 100% so I'm heartened! I also hear more and more where the guy changes his name, or they combine.

Most men want to marry women who have been relatively chaste, even they have not been. This is certainly problematic.

Not really come across this, and it seems pretty vague.

I'm not saying that tradition should play a role in marriages today. It is up to the couple to agree on the aforementioned aspects of marriage. I am basing my views only on what I see in marriages that I am aware of. I realize that other people may be familiar with more modern marriages.

I have some dear friends who call themselves Mr & Mrs 1950's, he's a teacher and she's a full-time mum (4 kids) and takes care of the home. They embrace 'the old ways' but they're the only couple I know that do.

I know another couple who have a very unbalanced share of housework but he's a huge, ugly chauvinist song she didn't mind at first. Now, thought, he'll even take his plate out after a meal and when he removed his dirty smelly work clothes he pops them in the laundry basket for her instead of leaving them on the floor of the lounge/bathroom/kitchen/hallway etc. So massive progress has been made there in ten years...

My marriage is a mix of traditional and modern values. My husband helps with housework; however I do most of the cooking and chores. I am working towards a better career in college, yet my husband will always earn double what I will when I am finished. I took his last name of my own volition and I love doing nurturing things for my hubby.

I appreciate the way my husband does not try to control me with money or his age. He also doesn't harshly judge me for having a sexual past or a high sex drive; my husband's way of thinking is very evolved and fair.

What do LS members think? Have some traditional aspects of marriage remained the same for this society and generation?

I grew up with no REAL sense of gender identification. My best friend, age 3 to 11, was a boy and everything he did I wanted to do better! My mum had very low self-esteem and depression and barely cared about her appearance or had real friends. My first dad ran off, my second dad worked away all the time. I only realised recently how much I saw people as people with no defined gender roles. I was close to my grandparents, they both worked full-time and my gran was the decision-maker.

I approach relationships with a partnership basis in mind. We each do what we're best at and what's left gets divvied up between you and it's unfortunate that some of it you won't like or will suck at!

I might think about this some more and see if I can spot some underlying traditional gender behaviour/expectations I'm not currently aware of. I bet there's some there if I look for them

January 19, 2013

I have noticed that some traditional relationship expectations have not changed. Despite the fact that feminism resulted in a huge shift in the way men and women relate to each other, I believe that most men and women still desire some traditional realities in their marriages.

That's because feminism has basically run it's course in the western world.

Women have equal rights and consideration, for the last 2 decades they have been moving into entitlement and this more or less messes with our society that developed at the basis of it all from our biology.

Hence why some feminist writers are writing about men now [in a positive way, and with men's rights in mind].

For example, even though women can have high flying careers and support themselves, most women do not want a husband who is financially irresponsible and stingy. It is also still rare to see a man give up his career to raise children.

Nobody wants an irresponsible SO.

Stingy ... it depends, stingy with whom ?

I've been called stingy often because i don' buy into consumerism and i bet i've lost quite some dating opportunities because of it.

I also don't spend much on dates [generally], and expect her to pull her own weight with date expenses when we are a couple.

If that makes me stingy, i really don't care or want to change.

Being responsible and calculated with money is not being stingy in my book.

As for the men giving up their careers to raise kids ... i know of a few cases.

The problem is that men are afraid they will not be seen as men anymore.

We are told [both we men and women], that a man has to provide for his family.

Unfortunately both men and women buy into this crap.

In the case of the men, they are afraid of accepting this role.

In the case of the women, they sometimes lose respect for their man.

So it takes a strong relationship of 2 mature ppl to make this work.

I know of some ppl who pull it off.

Although men can cook and clean for themselves, I think that most men still want a woman with domestic skills. Women still do the lion's share of housework and child rearing, whether they are employed outside the home or not.

Tbh, even though i can clean my own clothes, and around the house, and cook ... i really don't like to do these things [i like to cook though]. I don't think anyone can say they like to do them.

I'm also woefully inneficient with them.

Over here girls learn these things at 10-11, i learned them at 20.

In terms of experience, and organization ... i really don't compare.

I'd gladly give these 2 up in terms of 'doing them on my own' and just 'help' when she does them.

More than 60% of women change their surnames when they marry. Most men want to marry women who have been relatively chaste, even they have not been. This is certainly problematic.

Depends on the society.

In some countries women will not change their surnames.

In other countries they will.

It also depends on the profession.

You really can't change your surname if you published something in research, or are a public person.

It depends on the guy in the question of being chaste.

Very few expect a virgin, what most expect is one that wasn't highly promiscuous. A requirement i heard being asked for men as well.

Furthermore, women like it when guys take charge.

But how can you take charge when you don't have the experience ?

Sounds like a small problem, doesn't it ?

I was a virgin untill 25, i would have lost it sooner if not for telling others i was a virgin. I should have timed them, they ran over everything possible to get out of that situation.

Nice double standard.

I'm not saying that tradition should play a role in marriages today. It is up to the couple to agree on the aforementioned aspects of marriage. I am basing my views only on what I see in marriages that I am aware of. I realize that other people may be familiar with more modern marriages.

You would be surprised how close to the 'old' marriages, the modern marrages are.

Read up on the middle ages and what marriage meant then, husband and wife were more equals than the example that feminists like to give with their 1950's average house, epitomized in Lucille Ball's shows ... you know, the Lucille Ball who was a very strong woman who had her own production company.

My marriage is a mix of traditional and modern values. My husband helps with housework; however I do most of the cooking and chores. I am working towards a better career in college, yet my husband will always earn double what I will when I am finished. I took his last name of my own volition and I love doing nurturing things for my hubby.

I appreciate the way my husband does not try to control me with money or his age. He also doesn't harshly judge me for having a sexual past or a high sex drive; my husband's way of thinking is very evolved and fair.

What do LS members think? Have some traditional aspects of marriage remained the same for this society and generation?

Sounds like a wonderfull marriage.

I'm kinda in the same boat as your hubby; most likely the woman i will marry will have had more sexual partners than me [never been with one that had less].

PS: See how you feel when reading this : Pater familias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

January 19, 2013

That sounds horrible, I earn twice what he does (currently) so if he's stingy it doesn't affect my life at all, but it's not a very attractive trait in a man OR woman.

This is a slow burner, there are big moves in attitude between each generation. This is coming. And in any case, I also don't know any women who want to give up their career, those I am friends with want to put it on hold or continue with their career and share child care.

I know of a few families where the woman does the most and it's very visible that this is the case, but I also know more where the guy does equal or more (my house being one of them, I'm happy to say).

My assumption (based on nothing) is that it would not long ago have been nearly 100% so I'm heartened! I also hear more and more where the guy changes his name, or they combine.

Not really come across this, and it seems pretty vague.

I have some dear friends who call themselves Mr & Mrs 1950's, he's a teacher and she's a full-time mum (4 kids) and takes care of the home. They embrace 'the old ways' but they're the only couple I know that do.

I know another couple who have a very unbalanced share of housework but he's a huge, ugly chauvinist song she didn't mind at first. Now, thought, he'll even take his plate out after a meal and when he removed his dirty smelly work clothes he pops them in the laundry basket for her instead of leaving them on the floor of the lounge/bathroom/kitchen/hallway etc. So massive progress has been made there in ten years...

I grew up with no REAL sense of gender identification. My best friend, age 3 to 11, was a boy and everything he did I wanted to do better! My mum had very low self-esteem and depression and barely cared about her appearance or had real friends. My first dad ran off, my second dad worked away all the time. I only realised recently how much I saw people as people with no defined gender roles. I was close to my grandparents, they both worked full-time and my gran was the decision-maker.

I approach relationships with a partnership basis in mind. We each do what we're best at and what's left gets divvied up between you and it's unfortunate that some of it you won't like or will suck at!

I might think about this some more and see if I can spot some underlying traditional gender behaviour/expectations I'm not currently aware of. I bet there's some there if I look for them

Why does not wanting a financially irresponsible man who penny pinches sound horrible? Even though women can earn their own money I don't think most women want a man who does not want to contribute or has a lot of debt. I daresay that men who don't have great careers are looked upon as less desirable partners, especially if a woman has a successful career.

I know far more women who have given up careers to raise children than males who have done the same thing. The women I am speaking of will put their careers on hold at least until the child is old enough to go to school. It all depends in the circles we travel in.

My husband does not do equal amounts of housework and I don't know any couple where the man does the same amount of housework that the woman does. I don't mind doing most of the housework because I only work part time and contribute very little to the finances because I am in school. Fair is fair.

January 19, 2013

That's because feminism has basically run it's course in the western world.
Women have equal rights and consideration, for the last 2 decades they have been moving into entitlement and this more or less messes with our society that developed at the basis of it all from our biology.
Hence why some feminist writers are writing about men now [in a positive way, and with men's rights in mind].

Nobody wants an irresponsible SO.
Stingy ... it depends, stingy with whom ?
I've been called stingy often because i don' buy into consumerism and i bet i've lost quite some dating opportunities because of it.
I also don't spend much on dates [generally], and expect her to pull her own weight with date expenses when we are a couple.
If that makes me stingy, i really don't care or want to change.
Being responsible and calculated with money is not being stingy in my book.

As for the men giving up their careers to raise kids ... i know of a few cases.
The problem is that men are afraid they will not be seen as men anymore.
We are told [both we men and women], that a man has to provide for his family.
Unfortunately both men and women buy into this crap.
In the case of the men, they are afraid of accepting this role.
In the case of the women, they sometimes lose respect for their man.
So it takes a strong relationship of 2 mature ppl to make this work.
I know of some ppl who pull it off.

Tbh, even though i can clean my own clothes, and around the house, and cook ... i really don't like to do these things [i like to cook though]. I don't think anyone can say they like to do them.
I'm also woefully inneficient with them.
Over here girls learn these things at 10-11, i learned them at 20.
In terms of experience, and organization ... i really don't compare.
I'd gladly give these 2 up in terms of 'doing them on my own' and just 'help' when she does them.

Depends on the society.
In some countries women will not change their surnames.
In other countries they will.
It also depends on the profession.
You really can't change your surname if you published something in research, or are a public person.
It depends on the guy in the question of being chaste.
Very few expect a virgin, what most expect is one that wasn't highly promiscuous. A requirement i heard being asked for men as well.
Furthermore, women like it when guys take charge.
But how can you take charge when you don't have the experience ?
Sounds like a small problem, doesn't it ?
I was a virgin untill 25, i would have lost it sooner if not for telling others i was a virgin. I should have timed them, they ran over everything possible to get out of that situation.
Nice double standard.

You would be surprised how close to the 'old' marriages, the modern marrages are.
Read up on the middle ages and what marriage meant then, husband and wife were more equals than the example that feminists like to give with their 1950's average house, epitomized in Lucille Ball's shows ... you know, the Lucille Ball who was a very strong woman who had her own production company.

Sounds like a wonderfull marriage.
I'm kinda in the same boat as your hubby; most likely the woman i will marry will have had more sexual partners than me [never been with one that had less].

PS: See how you feel when reading this : Pater familias - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .

So you feel that traditional roles are biological?

I wasn't calling you stingy. How can I when I don't even know you?

I was speaking of men who never want to spend money on dates or give gifts of any kind on special occasions because they want to be tightwads. Nothing wrong with expecting a woman to pull her own weight but that is not what I am referring to.

There are obviously a few cases where a man gives up his career to raise children, but from what I have seen, it is usually the woman who stays home with kids no matter what her career choice is. I don't think a man is less masculine because he stays home, but unfortunately that is not how the rest of the world tends to think. I believe that whomever earns more should have more financial responsibility in a marriage, whether it is the wife or the husband. Isn't that only fair?

I disagree that nobody can say that they like doing chores. Some people get a sense of satisfaction or accomplishment from keeping their homes clean or cooking great meals. If you would accept a woman doing most of the chores for you, what would you be prepared to give in return for her domestic prowess?

The state of the maiden name. - Slate Magazine Even in the United States, only about 18% of women keep their last names. I would have thought that far more women keep their surnames when they marry, but tradition is still the norm in this case. I wanted to take my husband's name when I married and I am happy that he wasn't trying to force me to change my surname. I wanted my new name to symbolize the change in my identity from single person to wife.

My point about promiscuity is that most men want a woman who has had far less partners than they have been to bed with. Not fair, but that is the way society handles that issue. I agree that men are subjected to the flip side of this standard, in that they are expected to be sexually experienced.

I know I don't like men or women who only want to be traditional when it suits them. Women who call themselves feminists yet expect men to pick up the cheque all the time on dates are ridiculous. I feel the same about men who want to be served like kings, yet they expect women to contribute financially at all times. Can't have it both ways.

Edited January 19, 2013 by Nyla

January 19, 2013

I dont want to argue about traditional Vs Modern marriage as both are necessary..First thing its most important is "understanding" between two.

AS am Indian , i can say traditional marriage is necessary here though we understand the modern concept. I can agree with your some points i,e its better have traditional concept as well as modern

January 19, 2013

Why does not wanting a financially irresponsible man who penny pinches sound horrible? Even though women can earn their own money I don't think most women want a man who does not want to contribute or has a lot of debt. I daresay that men who don't have great careers are looked upon as less desirable partners, especially if a woman has a successful career.

I said I thought being stingy was an unattractive trait.

January 19, 2013

I said I thought being stingy was an unattractive trait.

Yes, but you also said "that sounds horrible". I was wondering about that.

January 20, 2013

I see plenty of men pushing carriages and women making more than their husbands. Not rare anymore. And the men are still men. Spontaneous sex changes don't really happen.

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