Perception of pain

[thomasb]

Okay. This has bothered me since I first joined this site:

 

How does one dare to tell another when, how or if they should let go of pain! I hear OW/OP on this site all the time saying 'when I was a BS' it didn't hurt me that bad. My pain as an ow/op is sooo much worse.' That to me is ridiculous. Who knows what sort of relationship they had with their spouse at the time.

Rather like the young girl who came up to me a week after our 23yr old son died and said, 'I understand how you feel. I lost my grandmother two months ago. She was 97!' Does a person who kills their spouse or child miss that spouse or child as much as I miss my son? Highly doubt it.

I doubt the person who wants the divorce and files feel as much pain as the person begging to reconcile either.

But. It is never right to say you know someone else's pain or compare situations.

Thoughts?

[LadyRecovery]

Okay. This has bothered me since I first joined this site:

 

How does one dare to tell another when, how or if they should let go of pain! I hear OW/OP on this site all the time saying 'when I was a BS' it didn't hurt me that bad. My pain as an ow/op is sooo much worse.' That to me is ridiculous. Who knows what sort of relationship they had with their spouse at the time.

Rather like the young girl who came up to me a week after our 23yr old son died and said, 'I understand how you feel. I lost my grandmother two months ago. She was 97!' Does a person who kills their spouse or child miss that spouse or child as much as I miss my son? Highly doubt it.

I doubt the person who wants the divorce and files feel as much pain as the person begging to reconcile either.

But. It is never right to say you know someone else's pain or compare situations.

Thoughts?

 

 

I think it's out of line and insulting that anyone tells me how to feel or compare my pain. Does anyone really know my pain when my fiance was killed? People grieve and feel pain differently. All situations are different in their own way. Someone can't tell me what to feel or not to feel. I feel whatever I feel. It's my thoughts and actions that I can control. Just my $.02

[thomasb]

I would never have diminished my wife in a way as to tell her it wasn't that bad. That her feeling devastated and reviled by my and the OWs behavior was anything less than she was telling me.

[buckeyeblue]

Thomas - Dangerous subject!! Who are any of us to judge anybody else's pain? Yes, we may feel that some of it is self-inflicted, but the pain is still very real.

 

That being said, I am glad that you have the ability to sympathize with your wife and respect her pain. I hope you continue to try to understand her and not become impatient.

[Decorative]

Okay. This has bothered me since I first joined this site:

 

How does one dare to tell another when, how or if they should let go of pain! I hear OW/OP on this site all the time saying 'when I was a BS' it didn't hurt me that bad. My pain as an ow/op is sooo much worse.' That to me is ridiculous. Who knows what sort of relationship they had with their spouse at the time.

Rather like the young girl who came up to me a week after our 23yr old son died and said, 'I understand how you feel. I lost my grandmother two months ago. She was 97!' Does a person who kills their spouse or child miss that spouse or child as much as I miss my son? Highly doubt it.

I doubt the person who wants the divorce and files feel as much pain as the person begging to reconcile either.

But. It is never right to say you know someone else's pain or compare situations.

Thoughts?

 

Thoughts?

 

My initial thought is "Wow. He can read my mind. I wonder if he can do lottery numbers, too."

[Decorative]

As I sit and think more on this- I want to emphasize the part that Thomas was clear on- you cannot truly gauge someone else's pain. So you cannot lessen it for someone else, and you should never turn it into a game.

 

I try very very hard not to ever say things that quantify my pain and injuries, or to create false empathy in situations that really aren't the same. And I totally respect that self inflicted pain can be horrible. It totally can be. But pain that is inflicted on you by others, or by circumstances out of anyone's control have another layer to them.

 

Do I walk around announcing that? No. But I sure do think it.

 

Like Thomas, when our son died- we had people say similar things. And it was befuddling to me. I realize that most are said in an attempt of compassion. And I focus on that. Most of the time.

 

But sometimes, when it's a bad day, or when the memories are persistent, it's harder to do that. I can usually shake it off quickly, but it's still a thought that goes through my head.

[Spark1111]

I believe some people think they know, try to imagine it, but cannot perceive it until something of the same magnitude and loss happens to them.

 

For example, I lost a brother in a car accident not his fault and I fell off the face of the planet for six months. He was on the short list of people I loved most on the planet and I grieved his loss at too young an age PROFOUNDLY.

 

Had two close friends tell me, with the best possible intentions, to seek help to get over it and everything happens for a reason.

 

interesting to note, neither one enjoyed the best relationship with their brother. they had TRIED to empathize with me and my pain becuase they simply could not.

 

two and three years later, when they had lost their mothers, one of the two came back and apologized to me.

 

She said, " I did not do enough for you when you lost your brother. I never knew it could hurt like this and am shocked for how long it is hurting. I said some really stupid things to you and I apologize."

[shame_on_me]

My father was killed in the troubles in Armagh Ireland, my older pregnant siter and her husband were killed in a car bomb exactly 1 month later.

 

I know pain, i know fear and i have experienced hopelessness. I am still paranoid if my wife leaves her car outside the garage even though we now live in a different country.

 

This pain I am feeling right now is neither worse nor better than the pain i experienced growing up - i guess you are right in saying different scenarios cause different types of pain for each individual.

[Spark1111]

I'm so sorry for your loss. My brother died after a 2 year battle with cancer and it's especially awful to lose someone with so much life ahead of them.

 

I agree and disagree on your post. You are actually comparing yourself. And rightly so. I agree that no one can judge whether someone in the same position feels more or less pain than another (eg the OW who was once a BS- their pontificating irritates me enormously partly because of the hypocrisy of having gone on to inflict it). But for an OW who had a part time, often mainly texting and phone affair for maybe a year to compare her pain to a wife of 20 years? Arrogant to say the least. Like your example there's no comparison between losing a child and losing a 97 year old. I have had both losses too, though my child was unborn and I'm sure even though that was truly awful and heart wrenching it's nothing to what my mom suffered.

 

The self indulgence of tw self inflicted pain givers is kind of breathtaking.

 

I have to agree that I will never understand a woman who was betrayed by her xspouse going on to become an OW.

 

It was the ONLY question I had for the fOW in my sitch when we spoke almost 2.5 years after the affair, when she brazenly broke NC to see if he would be interested in re initiating:

 

Woman to woman, I only have ONE question for you: How did you do to ME exactly what had been done to you? You alone know the pain of that betrayal and it is still evidenced in your bitterness towards your xH."

 

She started screaming and moaning in a primal pain the likes of which I have never heard. I kid you not.

 

my IC pointed out to me that some affairs may be about love, some rebellion, some revenge and empowerment.

 

She, I would place in the last category. Actually, I place many of them in the last category.

 

So why oh why would they ever admit to competing with, besting me so they could feel empowered? it is why so many express SUCH disdain for the innocent spouse home washing his socks and cooking his meals.

 

We are the reason he doesn't say goodbye. we are the reason the kids are turned against him and our kids suck while their kid's are angels.

 

I believe they cannot perceive our pain because it would make their pain, their drama, their actions, their special, sordid love oh so much less.

 

And it was, and every confident resourceful woman will realize those girls never sat at the cool table in high school; didn't date the star quarterback; and somehow got stuck back there.

 

they still need to best the cool girl, the wife who has the man, the family, the friends, the life and the respect of all.

 

they want that, and they think if a man who has that, because he picked the woman he did to be his wife, they too may gain the stature, respect and admiration of the wife.

 

it NEVER works that way. you have to earn that in life. And that is why I believe so many MM, tuck tail and run back to that WOMAN at home who helped him become the success he is.

 

Thomasb, thoughts? your wife's thoughts on this.

[Decorative]

I have to agree that I will never understand a woman who was betrayed by her xspouse going on to become an OW.

 

It was the ONLY question I had for the fOW in my sitch when we spoke almost 2.5 years after the affair, when she brazenly broke NC to see if he would be interested in re initiating:

 

Woman to woman, I only have ONE question for you: How did you do to ME exactly what had been done to you? You alone know the pain of that betrayal and it is still evidenced in your bitterness towards your xH."

 

She started screaming and moaning in a primal pain the likes of which I have never heard. I kid you not.

 

my IC pointed out to me that some affairs may be about love, some rebellion, some revenge and empowerment.

 

She, I would place in the last category. Actually, I place many of them in the last category.

 

So why oh why would they ever admit to competing with, besting me so they could feel empowered? it is why so many express SUCH disdain for the innocent spouse home washing his socks and cooking his meals.

 

We are the reason he doesn't say goodbye. we are the reason the kids are turned against him and our kids suck while their kid's are angels.

 

I believe they cannot perceive our pain because it would make their pain, their drama, their actions, their special, sordid love oh so much less.

 

And it was, and every confident resourceful woman will realize those girls never sat at the cool table in high school; didn't date the star quarterback; and somehow got stuck back there.

 

they still need to best the cool girl, the wife who has the man, the family, the friends, the life and the respect of all.

 

they want that, and they think if a man who has that, because he picked the woman he did to be his wife, they too may gain the stature, respect and admiration of the wife.

 

it NEVER works that way. you have to earn that in life. And that is why I believe so many MM, tuck tail and run back to that WOMAN at home who helped him become the success he is.

 

Thomasb, thoughts? your wife's thoughts on this.

 

I, uh, dated the quarterback.

 

Holy crap. This is so on. Wow.

[Spark1111]

I, uh, dated the quarterback.

 

Holy crap. This is so on. Wow.

 

he was my cousin, but I dated the wide receiver and then the tail back.

[Decorative]

he was my cousin, but I dated the wide receiver and then the tail back.

 

Why am I not surprised?

[road]

How does one dare to tell another when, how or if they should let go of pain! ....I hear OW/OP on this site all the time saying 'when I was a BS' it didn't hurt me that bad. My pain as an ow/op is sooo much worse.' ........ girl who came up to me a week after our 23yr old son died and said, 'I understand how you feel. I lost my grandmother two months ago. She was 97!' Does a person who kills their spouse or child miss that spouse or child as much as I miss my son? .......It is never right to say you know someone else's pain or compare situations.

 

One, people come here to heal. They need to be taught how to move on.

 

What the OW that advocate cheating on their section is nothing to get worked up over as in consider the source. You know they are serving kool aid over there so why go there.

 

As to the young girl she was trying to relate and show sympathy to you.

You have to get like the old men sitting in a park: you were sick well I was sicker. You call that sick I had to have an operation. Me too, look at my scar. You that a scare look at my scare, that's a scar.

[Decorative]

One, people come here to heal. They need to be taught how to move on.

 

What the OW that advocate cheating on their section is nothing to get worked up over as in consider the source. You know they are serving kool aid over there so why go there.

 

As to the young girl she was trying to relate and show sympathy to you.

You have to get like the old men sitting in a park: you were sick well I was sicker. You call that sick I had to have an operation. Me too, look at my scar. You that a scare look at my scare, that's a scar.

 

Did you just tell him how to handle his pain and how to perceive it? Wasn't that a major part of his point?

[Spark1111]

My father was killed in the troubles in Armagh Ireland, my older pregnant siter and her husband were killed in a car bomb exactly 1 month later.

 

I know pain, i know fear and i have experienced hopelessness. I am still paranoid if my wife leaves her car outside the garage even though we now live in a different country.

 

This pain I am feeling right now is neither worse nor better than the pain i experienced growing up - i guess you are right in saying different scenarios cause different types of pain for each individual.

 

you I would like to throttle as if I were your sister!

 

you went to therapy, yes, for the horrific and sudden loss of a father, a pregnant sister and her H due to bombings?

 

because right now I will tell you that you are a classic KISA, Knight in Shining Armor, and that damsel in distress down the road pulled every heartstring you had.

 

a KISA usually has unresolved issues from the past where they could not save someone they loved, but never dealt with it. So, they feel empowerment from saving the stranger down the block from their troubles. It empowers them. They are usually good guys.

 

but they NEVER did the hard work in therapy of saving themselves from previous pain.

 

SOM, your OW and your affair is a symptom, not a cause, of what ails you.

 

you couldn't save your FATHER, nor your pregnant sister and your BIL, and you have spent your whole life stuffing that....

 

So you save the woman down the block who rescues animals in a loveless marriage.

 

OMG! The metaphors abound! calling Freud!

 

You need to RESCUE yourself my friend and then your marriage. you need to really, really DEAL with how powerless you felt when you could NOT rescue them!

 

I swear, I want to smack you like a brother. And you can't find time to for IC?

 

you do not want to find TIME for MC because you are afraid to go back and get for Ed to deal with what you never dealt with.

 

you'd rather feel like that noble Knight who rescues damsels in distress.

 

Why? You are trying to overcome your childhood at the expense of true happiness within you and your marriage.

[Decorative]

you I would like to throttle as if I were your sister!

 

you went to therapy, yes, for the horrific and sudden loss of a father, a pregnant sister and her H due to bombings?

 

because right now I will tell you that you are a classic KISA, Knight in Shining Armor, and that damsel in distress down the road pulled every heartstring you had.

 

a KISA usually has unresolved issues from the past where they could not save someone they loved, but never dealt with it. So, they feel empowerment from saving the stranger down the block from their troubles. It empowers them. They are usually good guys.

 

but they NEVER did the hard work in therapy of saving themselves from previous pain.

 

SOM, your OW and your affair is a symptom, not a cause, of what ails you.

 

you couldn't save your FATHER, nor your pregnant sister and your BIL, and you have spent your whole life stuffing that....

 

So you save the woman down the block who rescues animals in a loveless marriage.

 

OMG! The metaphors abound! calling Freud!

 

You need to RESCUE yourself my friend and then your marriage. you need to really, really DEAL with how powerless you felt when you could NOT rescue them!

 

I swear, I want to smack you like a brother. And you can't find time to for IC?

 

you do not want to find TIME for MC because you are afraid to go back and get for Ed to deal with what you never dealt with.

 

you'd rather feel like that noble Knight who rescues damsels in distress.

 

Why? You are trying to overcome your childhood at the expense of true happiness within you and your marriage.

 

You win. This is so spot on the money.

[shame_on_me]

you I would like to throttle as if I were your sister!

 

you went to therapy, yes, for the horrific and sudden loss of a father, a pregnant sister and her H due to bombings?

 

because right now I will tell you that you are a classic KISA, Knight in Shining Armor, and that damsel in distress down the road pulled every heartstring you had.

 

a KISA usually has unresolved issues from the past where they could not save someone they loved, but never dealt with it. So, they feel empowerment from saving the stranger down the block from their troubles. It empowers them. They are usually good guys.

 

but they NEVER did the hard work in therapy of saving themselves from previous pain.

 

SOM, your OW and your affair is a symptom, not a cause, of what ails you.

 

you couldn't save your FATHER, nor your pregnant sister and your BIL, and you have spent your whole life stuffing that....

 

So you save the woman down the block who rescues animals in a loveless marriage.

 

OMG! The metaphors abound! calling Freud!

 

You need to RESCUE yourself my friend and then your marriage. you need to really, really DEAL with how powerless you felt when you could NOT rescue them!

 

I swear, I want to smack you like a brother. And you can't find time to for IC?

 

you do not want to find TIME for MC because you are afraid to go back and get for Ed to deal with what you never dealt with.

 

you'd rather feel like that noble Knight who rescues damsels in distress.

 

Why? You are trying to overcome your childhood at the expense of true happiness within you and your marriage.

 

No I never went to therapy, back then it was the norm, you left for school and you didnt know if your parents, friends or yourself would survive the day. You heard mothers screaming with grief every night after one of their own had been killed in the fighting. There is nothing to discuss about the troubles it was what it was, and i will not go back to that time.

 

She's no damsel lol she's a stubborn, fiesty and a strong minded woman and it was these traits i was instantly attracted to as well as her beauty.

 

Tbh i do not want to go into therapy as I do not wish to speak about the troubles my whole generation suffered from the hatered back then and i believe some of them still do (the fighting has flared back up) my affair has nothing to do it.

[waterwoman]

Tbh i do not want to go into therapy as I do not wish to speak about the troubles my whole generation suffered from the hatered back then and i believe some of them still do (the fighting has flared back up) my affair has nothing to do it.

 

shame - I cannot imagine how it must have been living in Norn back in the 70s and 80s. It was always on the news, it became almost normal but to be there - terrifying. And yes, who had therapy? Things my mum and dad and MIL experienced on WWII - they just live with it, because that's what you did.

[waterwoman]

thomas - so sorry to hear about your son x

[shame_on_me]

shame - I cannot imagine how it must have been living in Norn back in the 70s and 80s. It was always on the news, it became almost normal but to be there - terrifying. And yes, who had therapy? Things my mum and dad and MIL experienced on WWII - they just live with it, because that's what you did.

 

 

It was what it was WW we knew no difference, It was such a relief and very strange when we moved to live with our extended family.

[beenburned]

I've seen it over and over again, until that person goes through the exact same thing that you have been in, they probably will not truly understand. They can show empathy and support though.

 

My thoughts on the OW that says it's no big deal, wait until it happens to them.

 

My son-in-law's OW went bat sh** crazy on his whole family when she found out he had an OOW!!(4 yr affair) They finally had to take out a restraining order on her. She thought that cheating was o.k. as long as it wasn't done to her!!

[road]

Did you just tell him how to handle his pain and how to perceive it? Wasn't that a major part of his point?

 

 

Damn right I did. He needed the education. His skin is way too thin.

[Spark1111]

No I never went to therapy, back then it was the norm, you left for school and you didnt know if your parents, friends or yourself would survive the day. You heard mothers screaming with grief every night after one of their own had been killed in the fighting. There is nothing to discuss about the troubles it was what it was, and i will not go back to that time.

 

She's no damsel lol she's a stubborn, fiesty and a strong minded woman and it was these traits i was instantly attracted to as well as her beauty.

 

Tbh i do not want to go into therapy as I do not wish to speak about the troubles my whole generation suffered from the hatered back then and i believe some of them still do (the fighting has flared back up) my affair has nothing to do it.

 

Well, someone much smarter and more famous than I said: Those who do not study the past are condemned to repeat it."

[Decorative]

Damn right I did. He needed the education. His skin is way too thin.

 

Wow.

 

All righty then.

[Snowflower]

Rather like the young girl who came up to me a week after our 23yr old son died and said, 'I understand how you feel. I lost my grandmother two months ago. She was 97!'

 

First of all, I am so sorry about the loss of your son. I cannot even imagine that pain. I am so sorry.

 

As for the young woman who "compared" the loss of her grandmother. She was trying to empathize with you. Maybe it wasn't the right thing to say, but maybe in her young life, the loss of her beloved grandmother was the biggest loss she had felt.