Well that was interesting

[Spark1111]

The chances of OP to find a better man than her H are remote at best. I vote for a plan to try to fix her marriage.

 

I think her affair is mostly about her voracious need for external validation. I don't think her H is that bad. In fact, she admitted H was great.

 

It's all relative, Pierre.

 

He doesn't beat her. He provides for her in exchange for caring for his kids and household chores, and he has sex for six minutes on Saturday night.

 

It's a life of drudgery. He spends NO time with her. In fact, he spends more time with the tv, his son, his son's sports, and the church.

 

Boredom and complacency can lead to affairs as the need for excitement and romance nver wanes in women.

 

She's vulnerable to romantic and sexual attention.

[Spark1111]

I agree:

 

However, husband takes a difference approach. He is busy with life and is never bored.

 

The wife sits and waits for her H to get rid of her boredom.

 

 

Boring people need others to provide the entertainment. I hate to use the word boring, but it fits the analogy.

 

This is a long term marriage of two people entering the 5th decade.

 

IMHO, she wants attention. There is a term for this: It is called an "attention whore" and I want to make clear I am using the term to make my point. I hope it does not sound disrespectful.

 

I will admit that OP likely gives more to the relationship than the H because she wants approval and attention. Women like her never turn down the husband for sex even if they have a headache. They do not want to disappoint anyone.

 

I wish her husband understood the great need of OP for attention. Within a marriage the emotional need of attention is rather easy to cover by the H. But, he does not have a clue since he is a self validating type person.

 

Well then he is clueless and her job is to clue him in.

 

Self-validating or not, all partners need attention to feel like they are in a romantic partnership, not a long-term roommate situation.

 

Happiest marriages? They spend about 15 hours a week paying attention to each other without interruption; conversation, recreational activitities, and no I do not include tv watching, having fun and connection, both physical and emotional.

 

That's the amount of time you devote to the relationship when you were dating and lusting after each other.

 

Should not let that fall by the wayside. Six minutes hardly qualifies as any relationship I would be interested in, self-validating or not.

[Got it]

Why do you come here with no clear reason but to tell a story about how you love pleasuring another man? Really, what are you hoping to gain? Or are you just wanting to tell a story of how a good loving man is being betrayed by a woman who simply wants to tell everyone how much she enjoys f****g him over?

 

And no, I haven't been a BS in over 6 years.

 

nofool - if that was her intent why couldn't she come here with it? Are there perimeters in which one can post a topic?

 

Sharing an affair story that they are happy about SHOULD be okay as we ARE in the OW/OM forum last time I checked.

 

This begs the question, what exactly do you think the purpose of this subforum is?

[Got it]

I agree:

 

However, husband takes a difference approach. He is busy with life and is never bored.

 

The wife sits and waits for her H to get rid of her boredom.

 

 

Boring people need others to provide the entertainment. I hate to use the word boring, but it fits the analogy.

 

This is a long term marriage of two people entering the 5th decade.

 

IMHO, she wants attention. There is a term for this: It is called an "attention whore" and I want to make clear I am using the term to make my point. I hope it does not sound disrespectful.

 

I will admit that OP likely gives more to the relationship than the H because she wants approval and attention. Women like her never turn down the husband for sex even if they have a headache. They do not want to disappoint anyone.

 

I wish her husband understood the great need of OP for attention. Within a marriage the emotional need of attention is rather easy to cover by the H. But, he does not have a clue since he is a self validating type person.

 

Do you feel that wanting more from a relationship, wanting more attention constitutes being someone that thrives on needing attention or approval?

 

I have a somewhat similar story as the OP, but I had not overriding need to approval and I would turn down sex. I had no problem saying no. Being dissatisfied in a relationship does not mean you are wanting in your emotional make up, it just means that you are in a partnership where in these areas both partners have different levels of acceptance.

 

When one feels that they have exhausted all reasonable avenues to prevail upon for the spouse on what they need, you kind of get a "f*ck it" attitude. If you don't care than I don't care. Definitely is the most mature way of going but common I am sure nonetheless.

 

If your partner does not prioritize you, when you have made reasonable attempts to bring to their attention why should you prioritize them? (In the most general of sense.)

 

This is the slippery slope that many will hit. That was where I hit things and started preparing for divorce but how I internally okayed the affair.

[nofool4u]

nofool - if that was her intent why couldn't she come here with it?

 

Are there perimeters in which one can post a topic?

 

Nope, which is why she had no business asking me why I'm here if I can't ask her the same. She asked me, so I asked her right back. Start at the source Got it.

 

Sharing an affair story that they are happy about SHOULD be okay as we ARE in the OW/OM forum last time I checked.

 

This begs the question, what exactly do you think the purpose of this subforum is?

 

You tell me? Is it to gain help to be a better person?

 

Is it to come here and tell a disgusting story about enjoying pleasuring other men behind a loving husband's back with no clear purpose?

 

All I see in her post is that she has a loving man at home and she enjoys pleasuring other men.

 

So I'll ask again, what is the point?

 

And if your argument is, "well this is the OM/OW forum", then point me to where BS's can go for a safe haven. If you can do that, its all good.

 

Also point me out to where I said she couldn't post whatever she wanted here. Read again, I asked "what are you hoping to gain?"

Edited January 16, 2013 by nofool4u

[nofool4u]

I try and treat the infidelity forum as a safe haven. I'd never say anything nasty to someone over there with the intention to hurt them because that's supposed to be there for support for that side.

 

Doesn't mean I won't answer a question with a view from this side, but I do try and treat it gentler over there than I would here.

 

What is the question she was asking? THAT is what I was getting at. What is she hoping to gain by posting that first post?

 

I didn't see a question, much less a concern. Just a story of how she enjoyed what she is doing while she has a loving man at home.

[nofool4u]

I mean this with ZERO snark, but at no time have I ever seen that in order to post anyone has to have a question or require someone to help them solve something.

 

What is she trying to solve? Maybe she touched it in later posts, but there was nothing but glorifying what she did in the first.

 

Which is why I asked her what she is hoping to gain.

[Got it]

What is she trying to solve? Maybe she touched it in later posts, but there was nothing but glorifying what she did in the first.

 

Which is why I asked her what she is hoping to gain.

 

Maybe just telling her story "outloud" is what she is hoping to gain. Why does she need to have anything to gain? Why ask that?

 

I don't know why you think the BS don't have a safe haven. I think they do definitely in Infidelity. While some OP will post there at times, I think many keep the appropriate "hat" on. Is it perfect? No. But the age old question, do two wrongs make a right? And I think if you look at frequency there are FAR more nonOPs posting here on a much more frequency basis than vice versa.

 

But it is a silly nonproductive question to begin with.

 

Nofool - this is her thread, she can ask you that question as she has the right to put perimeters around her post and the answers. Is it a law that you have to follow it, of course not! I don't think there are LS police coming to track you down. But just common courtesy in the old posting world.

 

Bottomline, if she, I or anyone wants to post a "glorifying" post they have the right to. I had many wonderful moments in my affair. I am not ashamed of them. My affair was awhile ago so I am less likely to post about them but they do exist nonetheless.

[nofool4u]

Maybe just telling her story "outloud" is what she is hoping to gain. Why does she need to have anything to gain? Why ask that?

 

Well if she simply wants to tell a story of a loving husband at home and that she enjoys pleasuring other men behind his back, what should the expected responses be?

 

 

I don't know why you think the BS don't have a safe haven. I think they do definitely in Infidelity.

 

Trust me, we don't.

 

While some OP will post there at times, I think many keep the appropriate "hat" on. Is it perfect? No. But the age old question, do two wrongs make a right? And I think if you look at frequency there are FAR more nonOPs posting here on a much more frequency basis than vice versa.

 

But it is a silly nonproductive question to begin with.

 

I see, you can assert that this is the OW/OM forum, but I can't suggest that we have one of our own. Got it.

 

Nofool - this is her thread, she can ask you that question as she has the right to put perimeters around her post and the answers.

 

And I have every right to ask her what she hopes to gain.

 

 

Bottomline, if she, I or anyone wants to post a "glorifying" post they have the right to.

 

And we have the right to ask questions about it.

[Got it]

Well if she simply wants to tell a story of a loving husband at home and that she enjoys pleasuring other men behind his back, what should the expected responses be?

 

 

 

 

Trust me, we don't.

 

While some OP will post there at times, I think many keep the appropriate "hat" on. Is it perfect? No. But the age old question, do two wrongs make a right? And I think if you look at frequency there are FAR more nonOPs posting here on a much more frequency basis than vice versa.

 

But it is a silly nonproductive question to begin with.

 

I see, you can assert that this is the OW/OM forum, but I can't suggest that we have one of our own. Got it.

 

 

 

And I have every right to ask her what she hopes to gain.

 

 

 

 

And we have the right to ask questions about it.

 

I don't understand that line? I didn't say that. I think you can assert you should have one. I don't spend a lot of time over on Infidelity, because of keeping my hat on, and while I know it isn't perfect, I do think their is a lot less frequency of crossing over in that section than in here.

 

And when she tells you that she hopes to gain nothing in your acceptable perimeters will you leave it alone or jump on that because she isn't fitting into your acceptable choices? Will you agree to disagree and allow her to post her without continuing recrimination, speculation, and negative comments?

[nofool4u]

And when she tells you that she hopes to gain nothing in your acceptable perimeters will you leave it alone or jump on that because she isn't fitting into your acceptable choices? Will you agree to disagree and allow her to post her without continuing recrimination, speculation, and negative comments?

 

No, because if she isn't here to gain anything other than to tell a disgusting story of betrayal and enjoying it, I reserve the right to comment about it.

 

Now I'm done responding to you and will respond to the OP as I see fit.

[Got it]

Well I am glad you understand how to support someone.

 

I wish you well.

[CountrySlicker]

Boy you guys have been busy! Well so have I. Let me see if I can address everything.

 

First, my OP was not intended to be bragging, as some perceive it to be. I stated quite clearly that I was feeling awkward and unsure. And the last paragraph was full of questions--mostly that I was asking of myself.

 

Regarding being an attention whore (and no I'm not offended LOL) I think there is some degree of accuracy there, but when one is not getting ANY attention from a spouse, it is reasonable to go looking for it elsewhere. I found a great deal of satisfaction in my work, and am quite successful and proud of what I have accomplished, but it isn't enough. I have a great deal of pride in how far I have come emotionally in the survival of my first marriage. I have a great deal of happiness from volunteering and helping others, especially via random acts of kindness. But the bottom line is, sometimes a woman just want's to know she's wanted. Or more specifically, that she is capable of being wanted. And for something other than cleaning, cooking, babysitting, and sexual release. I don't have a "voracious need for attention" but I do have needs that should be attended to. Needs that keeping busy and productive and successful in the business world don't address.

 

Not having space in the car prevented me from making a huge mistake. But having respect for my husband and myself prevents me from SEEKING that huge mistake. Let me explain. I made it clear to Greg that I did not want sex. He agreed that he didn't either, that he was getting sex from his wife whenever he wanted it. It seemed like the perfect solution for both of us, to just hang out, maybe share hugs and stuff. Yes, I realize now how naive that was. And it wasn't like we just hopped into my car and went at it. We spent many hours together that day. The chemistry was there, fed by our individual issues, and neither of us had the ability to think clearly about how sex wasn't going to cure our issues. We're human, we are attracted to each other, and we had opportunity. If we had been thinking clearly, and had intended to seduce, there are plenty of motels around. Im just saying I'm thankful we didn't go there.

 

The A is definitely a symptom. It isn't a life style I want or am comfortable with. I don't want an open marriage. I want a husband who cares that I need some things from him and a partner who cares about the health of a relationship.

 

Do I think this marriage is salvageable? I think it's possible but its going to require him to do some work too. I don't know if he will. And I don't know if I am ready for the pain of him not doing the work.

 

I spent most of yesterday talking this through with a good (female) friend. It was incredibly helpful. I came home, had a couple of drinks, and wrote notes on all the things I wanted to discuss with H. I was partially honest in that I disclosed that there was someone I had been communicating with and there was a real danger of making bad choices. I asked H last night when he thought he would have a couple of hours to devote to an important conversation. He scheduled me for a week from Sunday. Seriously put it in his calendar. How is that supposed to make me feel? He didn't even ask what it was I wanted to talk about.

 

This morning I had a great session with my IC. He's very insightful and supportive of me as a person. He is also aware of the long term issues I have been dealing with, both in my first marriage and in this one. One of the things I said to him was that when I start to think about what I want I often become upset because of the frustration and the feeling that it is pointless to think about because it will never happen. Eventually I come around to wanting to feel satisfied and appreciated. And it would take so little to bring that to me. Unfortunately though, I need to find a way to bring it to myself. It’s an odd dynamic really—if I had the means, I probably would be quite happy alone. Or at least think I would be. I only seem to need outside approval when I’m feeling outside disapproval.

 

Another thing I said in IC this morning was that all through the process with Greg I have asked myself “what are you thinking?!”. I recognize that not only is an affair inappropriate but having one with Greg is inappropriate. He’s married (also for the third time)—in fact just got married a year ago. He’s uneducated, selfish, out of touch with feelings in general, and doesn’t like much of what I do like. I actually don’t like him much and I don’t have ANY respect for him. It also doesn’t solve my need to feel important because a) he’s married and a womanizer—complete with gold necklace and b) he doesn’t do anything affirming or complementary. I think I chose him for a reason—because I knew he wouldn’t be the solution. He is, in a way, “safe”. This was a real epiphany for me.

 

So yesterday morning I got my daily good morning text from Greg and we chatted a bit about an oil change and his upcoming sports competition. Then I didnt hear from him the rest of the day, which is sort of odd. I resisted the urge to contact him...My friend said I need to stop all contact immediately and I know she is right.

 

But I am weak. I sent him a short note late last night asking how his game went and whether or not I should keep emailing him. Today, even before my good morning text, I got a reply that I definitely should not stop emailing. He apologized for not chatting but said he had been busy. Imagine that, a married man with a full time job not having time to spend on me on a Wednesday LOL (sarcasm of course). Then I got my good morning text and suddenly it occurred to me that that one thing alone--that morning text hello--was what I was into this for. To have someone think about me. To have him reach out to me. Not only when he doesn't need to but actually shouldn't. He made an effort to please me and to connect with me. Even though it is at the most basic level rather than some intense brouhaha and passionate ending. It is exactly what I have been needing.

 

Which of course makes it harder to walk away from.

 

So what is d-day and how do I get there? I know that I have to stop this A. But it just feels so good sometimes....and those times when it doesn't feel good seem like just the price I have to pay to get those good times.

[nofool4u]

So what is d-day and how do I get there?

 

Glad you asked.

 

Its simple. You tell your husband that you cheated. That is d-day, when the spouse finds out their W/H cheated on them.

 

You tell your husband because he deserves to know who he is married to. You described him as a loving husband(actually loving marriage), therefore he doesn't deserve to be cheated on. He deserves to be able to make the decision if he wants to be with a cheater.

 

 

I know that I have to stop this A. But it just feels so good sometimes....and those times when it doesn't feel good seem like just the price I have to pay to get those good times.

 

Then come clean to your husband. He deserves to know what happened, and might be the only chance you have of stopping is if he holds your feet to the fire.

 

No consequences, no change.

[Got it]

Dday means discovery day. So however the discover happens, it falls under that title.

[CountrySlicker]

Its dday right now. I asked hubby to come home from work because we needed to talk. He said he couldnt but he could call me. I said it wasn't something we could do over the phone. He asked what it was about and I said "our marriage". So he suggested skype. Seriously? Skype? So I told him I had it all typed up and he wanted me to send it to him. I told him I didnt think he would appreciate being hit with it at work but he said he could handle it. He asked if I thought we should go back into couples counseling and I told him I wouldnt do that until he got some IC. He said he didnt know why I thought that, that everything was fine and he had no issues. I told him that thinking that was why he needed IC.

 

Then I emailed him the doc.

 

Now I wait for the explosion, while I'm ignoring texts from MOM about cheap hotel deals.

[CountrySlicker]

I can. Why?

[CountrySlicker]

I didnt just randomly send him a letter telling him I was cheating on him. I asked him to come home. To make me a priority. I have NEVER done that before. Even when I had pneumonia I didnt ask him to come home. Even when I was suicidal I didnt ask him to take a single hour off work. I asked him to come home and he said he could call. Or Skype. Seriously? He knew I wanted to talk about our marriage, and he knew I was upset enough to ask him to come home. He asked me to send it and I did. If that makes me a bad person so be it. At least I told him. At least Im trying.

[wisernow]

I didnt just randomly send him a letter telling him I was cheating on him. I asked him to come home. To make me a priority. I have NEVER done that before. Even when I had pneumonia I didnt ask him to come home. Even when I was suicidal I didnt ask him to take a single hour off work. I asked him to come home and he said he could call. Or Skype. Seriously? He knew I wanted to talk about our marriage, and he knew I was upset enough to ask him to come home. He asked me to send it and I did. If that makes me a bad person so be it. At least I told him. At least Im trying.

 

Trying to do what? You're going to get a reaction. Sure hope you're prepared for whats coming. SMH

[CountrySlicker]

to better understand the issues about household tasks, you need to know that I was in a bad car wreck in 2007 and am not very mobile. I have constant neck pain and cannot stand for long periods of time or walk very far. I can't pick up anything off the floor, but I can still do dishes, laundry, mopping, etc.

 

Here is what I sent:

 

I feel our marriage is not important to you.

--For a long time I have been expressing how unhappy and unfulfilled I feel. It seems that as long as I am not actively nagging or complaining you think everything is ok.

 

I feel my happiness is not important to you.

--It takes a lot for me to tell you what I need. When I do, and you don’t make any effort or stop making an effort, I feel unimportant.

 

I feel unappreciated.

--Both you and (our son) don’t make any effort to maintain order and cleanliness either in our shared spaces or in our private spaces. I never get caught up with cleaning unless you two are gone for several days. Then when you return, it takes only hours to destroy the effort I have made. When I try to find ways to improve our home you roll your eyes or find some fault with it. I frequently have to defend my choices and opinions. I feel unimportant when you put off buying birthday and Christmas gifts until the last minute and when you ask me to be specific about what I want. Sometimes when I am specific about what I want, you don’t make it a priority. When you have to get up early or take a call in the night you are thoughtless about how things may disturb me—for instance, you toss things onto the bed as you are getting ready to go instead of leaving the room and organizing somewhere that won’t disturb my sleep.

 

I feel trapped.

I have no source of income and no place to go if things don’t work out. On Sundays, I have to stay in the office because football is on in the living room and kid shows are on in my bedroom. When I am having physical difficulties you ignore them or act like helping me is a chore.

 

I feel emotionally distant.

We don’t spend time together. You don’t ask what interests me or what I do with my day. When I suggest trying something new, you resist. I am reluctant to talk to you about my feelings. I feel like if I do express my discomfort, anger, frustration, or any negative feeling, I am harming you in some way. We have nothing in common. I have tried to get involved with things like the church and the people you work with so that we at least have something….but you don’t seem to be interested in finding things that we could do together.

 

I feel uncomfortable with our family’s personal cleanliness.

Normal, healthy people bathe at LEAST once a week. You only bathe to masturbate. You allow trash and recycling and litter boxes to go unchanged for days at a time. This has been getting worse—you used to take the recycling out twice a week and at least scoop the boxes once a week. You step over things on the floor, and inform me of spills or cat messes as if you think it is my job alone to deal with those things. When I ask you to do a household chore, which realistically is very seldom, you put it off until I either do it myself or cause enough drama that you do it to settle me down. I constantly worry about getting evicted because of the state of our home. You make no effort to clean or maintain our car. You allow (our son)to make no effort in these areas as well.

 

I feel hopeless.

After so many years and so much communication and effort, nothing changes.

 

I feel unmotivated to keep trying.

I haven’t discussed any of this with you in a long time because I feel it does no good. I am only discussing it with you now because I’m showing signs of making bad choices.

 

I feel neglected.

You commit to work, the church, the boy, and your computer games, but not to making things better between us. Our sex life has gotten boring and predictable. It’s become easier to just tell you to take care of yourself or to force myself to participate than to try to spice things up. You never compliment me or touch me unless you want something, specifically sexual gratification. I’ve stopped caring whether I get pleased or not. We don’t even watch tv anymore. We choose movies I pretend to like because I know you won’t agree to seeing something I want to see. We eat at the same places even though you know I love trying new things. What you see as a comfort zone I experience as stagnant routine.

 

I feel tempted to satisfy my needs outside our marriage.

Not via intercourse, although I suspect that anyone I get involved with will expect some sort of physical contact as sort of “payment” for any relationship. I have regular opportunities to spend time with other men. So far, I have not cheated. You need to know, before things get bad, that there is someone I talk to regularly who is interested in a more intimate relationship. Communicating with him makes me feel interesting and pretty and desirable again. I’m trying very hard to resist going further. Because I feel our relationship and my personal esteem is at risk, I’d like to at least try to find an acceptable solution. I have started individual counseling, and I am now laying it all out for you. I do this because I love you, and I’m trying to respect you.

 

As I see it we have three options.

1. We can end the marriage.

2. We can explore “open marriage” where we set rules but allow outside people into our lives.

3. We can work hard and try to get through this as a couple.

 

Personally, I would prefer number 3, but I’m not convinced we would be very successful. I don’t think number 2 is really a viable option—I don’t think either of us is willing to share our mate. Number 1 would not only be emotionally devastating, but also financially and with great damage to (our son)

 

 

And here is what he replied:

 

While I do not see things the same way I do see how and why you perceive things the way you do. And some of the things are true. I have gotten complacent. I do not want option 1 or 2. I will setup a counseling session for myself to work on stuff I know I can fix. I love you and want to spend the rest of my life with you. I know we view stuff differently -- me likening familiar you liking new. But there is no reason we can't mix it up. I guess I have been a bit selfish and I apologize for that. Lets talk more tonight. Before the UNO tournament

[CountrySlicker]

Why is it I have to be "considerate" and "thoughtful" when he can't be bothered to respond to my desperate plea for help?

 

I ****ed up. I fessed up. I think all things considered Im doing pretty damn good.

[CountrySlicker]

Now I have to get my **** together and tell MOW that this is over. In some ways that's going to be just as bad.

[CountrySlicker]

Because I havent got it right in my head yet. Intellectually I know that just because there was no intercourse doesnt mean there was no A. I havent yet been able to make my heart accept that I cheated. And I didnt think it would be helpful to go into details with H

 

And that should have read MOM not MOW

[CountrySlicker]

Hmmmm. Don't thikn I'm being judgemental, cause I"m not... but you certainly thought you were cheating when you made your first post right?

 

What was said by someone or anyone here to make you think you weren't in such a short period of time? What changed your thinking?

 

Also... would your husband think it was cheating? I only ask because not everyone has the same definition of cheating, so if he's ok with you kissing other men and making out and whatever you may have done.. then maybe you didn't.

I think you know that you did though and tellling yourself otherwise is only going to confuse EVERYTHING!

Yeah I totally consider it cheating he H probably would too, although it would be a forgivable cheat. Once.

 

Yesterday I had a long talk with my best friend and she said that since we didnt have intercourse, get emotionally attached, or carry this out a long time it wasn't really a big deal. I guess I hold onto that.

 

Plus you guys said to spare him the gory details.

[nofool4u]

Why is it I have to be "considerate" and "thoughtful" when he can't be bothered to respond to my desperate plea for help?

 

Because, as evidenced by your letter, you are blaming him for everything. On top of that, he doesn't know you are a cheater.

 

You lied in your letter to him. You told him you haven't cheated yet. You did, both physically and emotionally.

 

 

I ****ed up. I fessed up.

 

No you didn't. You lied. You are trying to make this look like its all him and you are innocent.

 

Tell him the truth, that you did cheat on him, because you did, made out in your car with the guy, and carried on an emotional affair on top of that.