Setting the Tone, Taking the Lead

[AMusing]

I'm not convinced this is an issue of "be a man, make decisions" like the OP suggests.

 

Coming up with plans, being decisive, good communication skills, and making arrangements ahead of time: these are all attractive traits in anyone, regardless of gender or type of relationship.

 

Yes, I've heard many women complain when a date picks them up with no clear destination in mind. I don't like it either, it's annoying. But I also know men appreciate it when occasionally the woman plans out a date. It's nice to be lazy sometimes and just go along for the ride, regardless of your gender. Hell, even just interacting with friends, nobody likes the "What do you wanna do?" "I dunno, what do you wanna do?" conversations.

 

The rest of the advice is also equally applicable to both genders in my eyes:

Don’t keep secrets. Always tell the truth. Don’t do anything behind your woman’s back. Always do what you say you are going to do. Don’t procrastinate. Finish what you start.

 

Yep, sounds like general guidelines on how to be an upstanding member of society.

[chex]

When a man fails to lead and set the tone, the woman feels unsafe, loses trust in the man, loses sexual desire for him, has to escalate testing behavior, and has to become controlling (not a pretty sight).

 

When a man forces the woman to set the tone and take the lead, he becomes frustrated, resentful, emotionally unavailable, manipulative, passive-aggressive, and moody (also not a pretty sight).

 

Those things you point out about women who are forced to take the lead .. they sound a lot like the things women criticize men for. Controlling, losing sexual desire, hello?

 

The things you pointed out about men who don't take the lead are the same things a man would say about a woman he's falling out with, being manipulative, passive-aggressive, moody, fits perfectly with a drama-queen, high-maintenance girlfriend who never wants to take the lead in anything.

 

Power dynamics that people are unhappy with can lead to negative effects in general, you're only pointing out one side of the story. What of the men who don't want to be in charge? What of the women who want the power in the relationship? They're left in a bind with a restrictive social norm. Instead, couples should actually communicate with each other about what they want from the other, and what they prefer to do themselves, rather than simply being assumed to be straightace traditional folks.

 

 

My second thought is that communication is more important than trust. I mean, you have to have communication to build trust in the first place, no?

Edited January 15, 2013 by chex

[OJ loved Nicole]

What of the men who don't want to be in charge? What of the women who want the power in the relationship?

 

All women want this. As CptSaveAho has explained, it's hard wired into them. Men who don't want to take the lead (the betas) get left behind, women lose interest. Over time women begin to see them as dependents, more children SHE has to take care of (nothing sexy about a big child). This is where the sexual attraction usually fades.

 

All things remaining equal (looks, income, social status), would a woman choose a man who is indesisive, can't protect her, or a man who knows what he wants, takes the lead, and can protect her and her dependents?

[FitChick]

All women want this.

Not true. I gave just one example and can think of another and so can other people. It's usually where the woman is seen as a bitch and the guy a victim. Yet they stay together for many years because it serves the needs of each of them.

[chex]

All women want this. As CptSaveAho has explained, it's hard wired into them. Men who don't want to take the lead (the betas) get left behind, women lose interest. Over time women begin to see them as dependents, more children SHE has to take care of (nothing sexy about a big child). This is where the sexual attraction usually fades.

 

So are most women just big children who want to be taken care of?

 

[TheZebra]

I feel like the inherent issue at hand goes back to how much you (man or woman) cares about the person, and how that shows. What I mean is that for someone to go out and plan an evening or a vacation or whatever shows that the person is actually sitting down, investing the time into thinking about the event and their SO, and committed to making something work. So if you have a guy that just sits back and doesn't plan it gives the impression that they just don't care. Same thing if the guy doesn't communicate. Withdrawal makes women (and I think ANYONE really, man or woman) insecure but we don't know what's going on in your head. I know my ex always felt a little uneasy when I 'went quiet on him' and for his sanity I would tell him that it wasn't him, he did nothing wrong, I was just worried about X at the moment. And if it WAS him, it'd tell him so we could discuss it and figure it out. People don't talk anymore nowadays. They just assume things about themselves and their partners, or come here and ask for stranger's help without talking to the person they should first - their SO.

[OJ loved Nicole]

So are most women just big children who want to be taken care of?

 

In a relationship...... YES! Don't smash me yet. Women are hard wired to be attracted to social status (alpha), wealth (provider), protection (Ahhh, still protection), good genes (reproduction value).

 

Again, all things remaining equal, women will choose the better option. If you have all these traits except wealth, she'll leave you (or be highly attracted, have an affair) for a male with your missing quality.

[CptSaveAho]

I dont agree with "wealth"...

 

"security" is a better term... typically emotional... there are the gold diggers out in the world though

 

in essence... women want a leader and a guy they respect (passes all their tests [these never end])

[SJC2008]

As a marriage therapist, I have spent the last 25 years listening to men and women talk about their relationships. Overwhelmingly, women tell me their number one issue is TRUST.

 

Obviously, women lose trust when their man tells lies. But it goes beyond that. They feel unsafe when their man won’t keep his word and won’t follow through. They get tired of not knowing what is going on inside their man’s head. They hate being forced to make all of the decisions. They resent their man’s passivity and passive-aggressiveness.

 

Women lose trust when their man won’t set the tone and take the lead. All too often, a woman has to take over the man’s job by default because the guy won’t do it. When a woman takes the lead, the guy assumes she must want to be in charge. Even though she doesn’t, once she has gotten behind the wheel, she won’t let go until she is convinced she can trust her man to take over and drive.

 

Women want to feel safe more than anything else. They naturally look to men for security (it starts with daddy and continues into adulthood in their intimate relationships with men). If they can’t trust the man in their life to make them feel safe, they are forced into taking charge.

 

When a man fails to lead and set the tone, the woman feels unsafe, loses trust in the man, loses sexual desire for him, has to escalate testing behavior, and has to become controlling (not a pretty sight).

 

When a man forces the woman to set the tone and take the lead, he becomes frustrated, resentful, emotionally unavailable, manipulative, passive-aggressive, and moody (also not a pretty sight).

 

I know the concept of leading and following seems almost old fashioned in our “modern” society. Yet someone has to set the tone. No matter how much you hear about equality and 50/50 relationships, they still make cars with only one steering wheel and televisions with only one remote. When it all comes down to it, someone has to lead.

 

It never ceases to amaze me that when I address the issue of men building trust with women by setting the tone and taking the lead, the women always nod in agreement. I have yet to have one single woman interrupt me and say, “Excuse me, but I would rather set the tone and take the lead in our relationship.”

 

When I talk about setting the tone and taking the lead, I’m not about talking about men being controlling, manipulative, selfish, making every decision, or having everything go their way.

 

I’m talking about a man deciding what he wants and inviting a woman to join him. If the man leads, the woman has a choice to follow or not. He isn’t forcing her to do anything. But she doesn’t have a choice if he doesn’t clearly lead or let her know what direction he is going.

 

A woman can’t follow where a man doesn’t lead!

 

When a man sets the tone and takes the lead, it actually opens the door for a reciprocal relationship with a woman. Masculine leadership makes “give and take” possible. When a man is passive, it prevents any kind of shared decision making.

 

It doesn’t matter if you are a single guy looking for love or a married man in a committed relationship, the principles remain the same.

 

Have a plan, don’t force her to make all the decisions. Tell her what you want to do, she can always offer a counter plan. Give her something to respond to. Asking her what she wants to do or giving her too many options is not the way to make a woman happy.

 

Tell your woman what you are thinking, what you are feeling, and what you want. Don’t make her guess or read your mind. Don’t wait for her to bring up problems in the relationship, its not her job and will make her feel like a nag. If there is something in your head, let her in on it. Don’t let resentment fester and build inside you until you blow up or lash out in passive-aggressive ways. Deal with things NOW!

 

Always treat a woman with love and respect.

 

Don’t keep secrets. Always tell the truth. Don’t do anything behind your woman’s back. Always do what you say you are going to do. Don’t procrastinate. Finish what you start.

 

A few months ago I was sitting in the bar of a local restaurant with some men who had taken one of my dating classes. An attractive waitress I know walked by our table. I said “Jessica, come here, I want to ask you a question.” I asked, “How do you like it when the guy you are dating leaves all the decisions up to you and repeatedly asks you what you want to do?” Without hesitation, Jessica emphatically retorted, “IT IRRITATES ME!” I thanked her for her candid response and turned back to the guys and smiled.

 

Want to make a woman happy? Set the tone, take the lead. Be a man your woman can trust!

 

Dr. Robert Glover

 

Another example where the man has to be seemingly perfect while the woman is allowed to be some emotional wreck! Only a Great, Strong woman deserves a man of the traits listed in the OP.

[OJ loved Nicole]

Another example where the man has to be seemingly perfect while the woman is allowed to be some emotional wreck! Only a Great, Strong woman deserves a man of the traits listed in the OP.

 

Where do you get that from:

 

"Tell your woman what you are thinking, what you are feeling, and what you want. Don’t make her guess or read your mind. Don’t wait for her to bring up problems in the relationship, its not her job and will make her feel like a nag. If there is something in your head, let her in on it. Don’t let resentment fester and build inside you until you blow up or lash out in passive-aggressive ways. Deal with things NOW!"

 

Anything but perfect. He's telling us to be ourselves, speak our mind, do things we want, invite her along, be completely natural. Essentially "don't try to be perfect, just be yourself 100% of the time".

[april38]

So are most women just big children who want to be taken care of?

 

 

I'm going out on a limb here, but here are my thoughts:

 

Women want a sense of security from a man meaning they want to be able to trust, look up to, depend on a man to be able to lead, support, and give her a feeling of safety/protection. Yes, some of the traits of a father.

 

Men want a sense of being nurtured by a woman meaning they want to be able to be understood, adored, and admired. Maybe some of the traits of a mother.

 

Now we all want all of these things, however these traits are predominant in the search for a viable partner. If you look at how these traits relate to one another, if a woman understands, adores and admires a man he is going to want to do lead, support (not necessarily financially) and safeguard a woman. And vice versa....it's like a dance of reciprocating needs/desires to one another.

 

As far as being children - we are all children on the inside, if you're lucky that child will never be lost - it's who we are.

[chex]

I'm going out on a limb here, but here are my thoughts:

 

Women want a sense of security from a man meaning they want to be able to trust, look up to, depend on a man to be able to lead, support, and give her a feeling of safety/protection. Yes, some of the traits of a father.

 

Men want a sense of being nurtured by a woman meaning they want to be able to be understood, adored, and admired. Maybe some of the traits of a mother.

 

Now we all want all of these things, however these traits are predominant in the search for a viable partner. If you look at how these traits relate to one another, if a woman understands, adores and admires a man he is going to want to do lead, support (not necessarily financially) and safeguard a woman. And vice versa....it's like a dance of reciprocating needs/desires to one another.

 

As far as being children - we are all children on the inside, if you're lucky that child will never be lost - it's who we are.

 

 

Fair enough. I think I was reading too deeply into some of the connotations the author was using, and I read it as a sort of "the woman shouldn't have to reciprocate or do anything at all" and it got me mad.

 

Thanks for the well thought out response, I suppose I agree for the most part.

[PJKino]

I like for a man to take the lead, but not for the reasons the OP has specified. For me it's just sheer laziness with this aspect of my life. If he doesn't take the lead, nothing will happen.

 

i love your honesty i wish other women would admit their lazy or dont want to put their ego on the line instead of using other excuses.

[april38]

Fair enough. I think I was reading too deeply into some of the connotations the author was using, and I read it as a sort of "the woman shouldn't have to reciprocate or do anything at all" and it got me mad.

 

Thanks for the well thought out response, I suppose I agree for the most part.

 

I can understand why you read it that way - the article was solely written for the purpose of explaining women's needs to men, it doesn't go into detail of what men need from women, which is obviously equally important!

 

:-)

[Drseussgrrl]

I went out with a guy and on the third date, I asked him to come to my neighborhood. He acted like it was a huge inconvenience, even though I had gone to his 'hood on the 2nd date. I picked the place, and paid. This was a $135 dollar meal. He was REALLY excited to see me up until this day.

 

Guess what? After putting myself out there like that, he did the fade out.

 

I'm sorry, but it felt VERY unnatural to plan the date and pay for a fancy meal like that so early on in the relationship. I understand it didn't have to be anything expensive, but I still can't help but feel that when women take on a masculine role like that so early on, a man loses interest and he doesn't even really know why.

 

All of the successful LTR's I've had up til now have all been with the man leading the way in the beginning. I don't like chasing men and it has NEVER worked out in the past when I have.

[chex]

I went out with a guy and on the third date, I asked him to come to my neighborhood. He acted like it was a huge inconvenience, even though I had gone to his 'hood on the 2nd date. I picked the place, and paid. This was a $135 dollar meal. He was REALLY excited to see me up until this day.

 

Guess what? After putting myself out there like that, he did the fade out.

 

I'm sorry, but it felt VERY unnatural to plan the date and pay for a fancy meal like that so early on in the relationship. I understand it didn't have to be anything expensive, but I still can't help but feel that when women take on a masculine role like that so early on, a man loses interest and he doesn't even really know why.

 

All of the successful LTR's I've had up til now have all been with the man leading the way in the beginning. I don't like chasing men and it has NEVER worked out in the past when I have.

 

I think that a lot of guys have a superiority complex -- they want to constantly be in control. They think it's unmasculine to let the girl pay for something, or plan something.

 

Many guys project themselves as confident and secure but as soon as you take a bit of control they're insecure because it's new territory, and they don't like not being in control.

 

Once a guy is more comfortable with you he'll probably get less uptight about it, but it's the ones who are incredibly uptight about it that end up being abusive, controlling, and too jealous for their own, and your, good.

Edited January 16, 2013 by chex

[SJC2008]

Where do you get that from:

 

"Tell your woman what you are thinking, what you are feeling, and what you want. Don’t make her guess or read your mind. Don’t wait for her to bring up problems in the relationship, its not her job and will make her feel like a nag. If there is something in your head, let her in on it. Don’t let resentment fester and build inside you until you blow up or lash out in passive-aggressive ways. Deal with things NOW!"

 

Anything but perfect. He's telling us to be ourselves, speak our mind, do things we want, invite her along, be completely natural. Essentially "don't try to be perfect, just be yourself 100% of the time".

 

I get it from being very jaded in the dating world and not meeting quality women. And I don't mean perfect by quality. OLD ruined me;(

 

I have no problem and WANT to lead but what you said about don't make her read your mind and guess applies to the woman to. If she has a problem SHE needs to bring it up because I may not be aware of it, it goes both ways. I can lay the "foundation" by telling her in the begining to bring problems to the tabke and don't hold back and let things build up and I'll promise the same! But she has to be willing to and not be passive. Many men and women are too passive and everything comes out in one big argument.

Edited January 16, 2013 by SJC2008
spelling, add

[Lonely Ronin]

I get it from being very jaded in the dating world and not meaning quality women. And I don't mean perfect by quality. OLD ruined me;(

 

You need to work on this man. I think the main reason I do as well as I do, is because while I might get knocked down from time to time, I always get back up. Nothing is going to hold me back/down, specially not a bad dating prospect.