xxoo Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Right, but then there's the whole, "Putting a woman on a pedestal" situation, too. They figure if they put them on a pedestal in attempts to woo her, it's not manly. lose/lose situation lol What constitutes "putting a woman on a pedestal"? Showing genuine interest? Seeking to impress her? IMO, putting a woman on a pedestal is putting her needs above your own, and tolerating bad behavior. Not thinking she is awesome, and seeking to show her that you are awesome, too. If she's worth the effort, she's not on a pedestal! Really curious--would men think that a woman is making too much effort by wearing lingerie in a relationship? It turns you on, right? This is really not so different. We wear the lingerie, because we want to impress you.
Imajerk17 Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) While I agree with the women on this, I actually can see where the guys are coming from too. Many of the guys on here just read the article posted earlier about how women are hooking up with guys they "hang out with"--and that article only corroborates what they've been observing. So guys on here--who are overly paranoid about being used perhaps, are resisting the idea of going through the effort of planning a fun outing suspecting that the girl has been having sex every week with a douche whose idea of effort is texting her "Sup. You wanna hang out?" Thing is though, expecting things to be fair never got anyone laid. If you guys can get past that mentality and plan something fun that doesn't cost a lot of money, you will be rewarded. Not just with sex, but with free dinners as well. Edited January 16, 2013 by Imajerk17
PJKino Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I Think the problem we have is that it seems is all about the man trying to impress and prove himself to the women in the beginng it seems one sided..and no simply dressing hot isnt meetimg halfway
Imajerk17 Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I Think the problem we have is that it seems is all about the man trying to impress and prove himself to the women in the beginng it seems one sided..and no simply dressing hot isnt meetimg halfway Yes there is a certain imbalance. That's what happens though when we can't get pregnant and she can. 1
xxoo Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 (edited) I Think the problem we have is that it seems is all about the man trying to impress and prove himself to the women in the beginng it seems one sided..and no simply dressing hot isnt meetimg halfway How did you determine that from the OP? It said that the man didn't plan things. It didn't say that the woman didn't plan things. Maybe she did, and she was looking for someone to match her effort. Also, I assumed it was a bf/gf thing, not an early date issue, since he was considering her a "future wife" possibility. And it sounded like the guy wanted the woman to stick around--wanted to marry her. Presumably, he liked what she had to offer. So how does it become about the woman dropping her end of the bargain? If a man really likes a woman, and wants to marry her, wouldn't she be worth the effort of taking her out? Edited January 16, 2013 by xxoo
Drseussgrrl Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I Think the problem we have is that it seems is all about the man trying to impress and prove himself to the women in the beginng it seems one sided..and no simply dressing hot isnt meetimg halfway You gotta be kidding. Women worry about all sorts of stuff when it comes to proving ourselves. Do I text him too much? Is it ok to call, or will he think I'm needy? Did I sleep with him too soon - does he think I'm a slut? Should I offer to cook for him or will he think I'm implying sex? Should I wear this skirt; will he like it? Do I talk too much on our dates? Does he think I'm funny? Do these pants make my butt look fat? What if he doesn't like cats. I could go on and on. I will never understand why you think that just because you plan a date that it's all smooth sailing for the woman.
xxoo Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 If you aren't willing to plan more than your fair share of dates, what are you willing to do to show interest in a woman? And if the women you date don't impress you, why do you date them? That question in particular, I will probably never understand.
PJKino Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 If you aren't willing to plan more than your fair share of dates, what are you willing to do to show interest in a woman? And if the women you date don't impress you, why do you date them? That question in particular, I will probably never understand. 0 whos saying men shouldnt plan anything?were simply saying it shouldnt always be the mans job
Imported Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Yes there is a certain imbalance. That's what happens though when we can't get pregnant and she can. I take charge with dudes too. At work. It paid off. Literally. We get stupid crazy tasking. People complain, I comfort them, make it seem not so bad, we get the job done. I get advanced. My company just went through a down sizing. There was never any doubt I was keeping my job. OP, I think a lot of people like to claim, "I am a take charge kinda person..." Most people are lying, however thinking that it is a plus to come off like that to someone reading your application or giving you an interview should speak volumes to you. 1
xxoo Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 0 whos saying men shouldnt plan anything?were simply saying it shouldnt always be the mans job Who's saying always? The OP describes a woman leaving a man who didn't make plans at all, even with a woman he presumably really liked (wanted to marry). No, not always....but probably more than 50% And in return, you get the girl. Acceptable? 1
Bristolius Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Guys, would it take some of the sting out of it if you planned something that you too thought was fun?
Charlie Harper Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 The Power and desicion making is very important in any relationship, from being just friends to marriage. So If you are a very dominant male who takes charge, women who dont like to be lead all the time will hate you and see you as a jerk. (not all women like to get what he asked at the restaurant, thats a stupid hollywood Cliche). also if you are a Male who likes to take your date too seriously or let her lead all the time you will be perceived as a boring-predictable and unmanly. You need to learn how much control to dial into any relationship, sometimes lead, sometimes take a back seat, heck even in bed if you are good at it it makes wonders for both. I really like when women take the lead, because quite frankly they are more crazy and adventurous than men. And BTW, I love that a woman calls me and leads me but I always have in mind a B plan, just in case its needed, and in my experience B plans are great, more so if they have some unknown factor... women love the unexpected, and I like it a lot.
Taramere Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 While I agree with the women on this, I actually can see where the guys are coming from too. Many of the guys on here just read the article posted earlier about how women are hooking up with guys they "hang out with"--and that article only corroborates what they've been observing. So guys on here--who are overly paranoid about being used perhaps, are resisting the idea of going through the effort of planning a fun outing suspecting that the girl has been having sex every week with a douche whose idea of effort is texting her "Sup. You wanna hang out?" I've seen a lot of what strikes me as a kind of hybrid between paranoia and masochism whereby men who feel insecure about their place in the pecking order are convinced that if they go on a date with a girl and the date doesn't end in a sexual encounter, she'll nip round to some f*ck buddy's house to be used as a booty call. I don't know if I've led a particularly sheltered existence, and if the women I know have also led a particularly sheltered existence, or if they've lied to me etc etc...but as far as I'm aware going on a date with one guy and then nipping off to have sex with another is not a common female practice. I suspect it's far more likely that there are a lot of bullsh*tters out there on predominantly male sites, winding their fellow male posters up with all manner of "I'm that guy you date goes round to blow after you bought her dinner" lies. Reminds me of that truly vile individual who started a "dirty women who don't deserve to be loved" thread the other day, filling it with various lurid tales of women who blow complete strangers in night club toilets and making on that it's an everyday scenario that women all over the place are involved in. These nasty little stories are almost like some defamation of the entire female gender. It seems to me that the determination to believe in this common scenario of women dating one man and then going off at the end of the date to blow another stems from a combination of insecurity and whatever kind of masochism that makes some men jerk off avidly to "cheating wife" porn. 1
grkBoy Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Right, but then there's the whole, "Putting a woman on a pedestal" situation, too. They figure if they put them on a pedestal in attempts to woo her, it's not manly. lose/lose situation lol Here's my advice...be fun. DON'T TRY TO WIN HER OVER. Just be fun and take her along for the ride. DO: Pick some cool/interesting places to take her. Dress casual, but fashionable. Shower and practice good hygiene. Be loose and relaxed. DON'T: Bring her flowers or any "gift". Spend loads of money and go all extravagant when you seriously can't do that every date. Pick typical spots and boring date ideas. Sit there worrying what she thinks of you. Tolerate childish, immature, or flaky behavior. Fight to get a conversation out of her. Think that you are only supposed to impress her and she doesn't have to impress you. 3
Taramere Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Kind of sad, but just was wondering if this is the reality of the situation? Ladies would you dump a guy, even though you had fun together, thought he was a decent guy, but if he simply never had any idea of what to do when going out, would this be a turn off to the point that would cause you to call it off? I would come up with ideas for things to do, but I can imagine that if somebody was so lackadaisical and unspirited about what they wanted to do I would probably question how much enthusiasm they had for dating me. I think that if after 3 dates they still weren't coming up with any ideas for what to do/where to go, I would probably say "I'm not getting the impression you're very enthusiastic about this. Let's just leave it."
Drseussgrrl Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 When one puts control of their life into another's hands they have no right to complain yet these are the ones who are the first to complain about "take charge" guy. WTF. Who said anything about control of anyone's entire life? It's just a damn date. 3
Taramere Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Right, but then there's the whole, "Putting a woman on a pedestal" situation, too. They figure if they put them on a pedestal in attempts to woo her, it's not manly. You'll rarely see successful and socially accomplished people worrying about saying please and thank you and generally demonstrating good manners. They're not likely to feel weakened by it, or worry about being seen as "supplicating" in the way that people closer to the bottom of the pile tend to. I used to work with disadvantaged children, and trying to get them to show good manners was an uphill struggle. Their self esteem was just too low to cope with that expectation...so instead of nagging them about it, I'd show them by example. They'd see that when they went out to places with me, staff would respond to us really well, they'd have a nice time and they'd start to make the connection between having good manners and having a good time. They'd see that actually the people with manners are often a lot more powerful and influential than the people who think that showing good manners makes you weak. If you feel weakened by what you perceive as social expectations that you should be dynamic and proactive on dates with women, then there's not much anybody can do about that. It's likely a symptom of you generally feeling controlled by external circumstances rather than on top of things....but from what you're saying you would maybe prefer to preserve that as the status quo? 1
Woggle Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I have no issue planning nice things and going all out but at the same time I would not want a woman who sits there all passive without giving her input as well. I have been on dates where finding what she actually wanted to do was like pulling teeth. I have no issue with putting in effort as long as I see some effort on her end.
crude Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 If you aren't willing to plan more than your fair share of dates, what are you willing to do to show interest in a woman? And if the women you date don't impress you, why do you date them? That question in particular, I will probably never understand. I'm willing to do exactly the same things to show interest in a woman that a woman does to show interest in a man. Men being expected to do MORE than their fair share when a woman does LESS than her fair share isn't fair. And we could turn the gender around and say if the men you date don't impress you enough to ask them out and pay for and plan for the dates, why do you date them?
xxoo Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I'm willing to do exactly the same things to show interest in a woman that a woman does to show interest in a man. Men being expected to do MORE than their fair share when a woman does LESS than her fair share isn't fair. And we could turn the gender around and say if the men you date don't impress you enough to ask them out and pay for and plan for the dates, why do you date them? We go out of our way to impress in different ways. It mostly levels out in the end, and you get on with life planning things together. But at some level, the courting should continue. Even after many years, my H still will plan things on special occasions (or not so special occasions) to thrill me, and I'll wear special items to bed to thrill him. Not so much the other way around.
SJC2008 Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 We go out of our way to impress in different ways. It mostly levels out in the end, and you get on with life planning things together. But at some level, the courting should continue. Even after many years, my H still will plan things on special occasions (or not so special occasions) to thrill me, and I'll wear special items to bed to thrill him. Not so much the other way around. How? Showing up on the date? lol I couldn't resist!!!
xxoo Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 How? Showing up on the date? lol I couldn't resist!!! The situation was not implying a first date. It was more of a bf/gf situation. Referring to her as a possible "future wife", he presumably was impressed by her in some way. Women show interest in ways that many men fully appreciate. Ways that men really, really like 1
Els Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 I'm willing to do exactly the same things to show interest in a woman that a woman does to show interest in a man. Men being expected to do MORE than their fair share when a woman does LESS than her fair share isn't fair. And we could turn the gender around and say if the men you date don't impress you enough to ask them out and pay for and plan for the dates, why do you date them? Really, so you're all happy with a woman who doesn't shave anywhere but her face, has boy-cut hair, wears shirts and pants out all the time, puts on zero makeup, wears flat shoes all the time, and doesn't wear any special lingerie to bed? Since we're talking about exactly the same things. Seriously, the amount of time it takes to plan a date doesn't even come close to the differential between the amount of time it takes for the average man and woman to get ready for a date. And I should know. I'm the one planning the majority of our dates now since the bf works much longer hours (which I absolutely don't mind, I'm not fixated on 50.000000000000000000% effort on both sides ) - it takes all of 10 minutes to read some restaurant reviews, choose one, and make a booking. That's half the time it takes to blow dry and flatiron my hair. Sounds incredibly petty to compare in that manner, doesn't it? But yes, that's exactly how you folk sound like. 1
Els Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 We go out of our way to impress in different ways. It mostly levels out in the end, and you get on with life planning things together. But at some level, the courting should continue. Even after many years, my H still will plan things on special occasions (or not so special occasions) to thrill me, and I'll wear special items to bed to thrill him. Not so much the other way around. Exactly. I don't get all the penny-counting when it comes to relationships, to be honest. People, regardless of gender, all want and are able/willing to offer different things. Throw gender and associated differences into the mix, and you get an even more complicated batch. No man wants a woman who is exactly the same as him, I'm pretty sure. Nor do women want a man who is exactly the same as them. If one feels that one's date/gf/bf isn't reciprocating by putting in any effort to make them happy, then they can take their own effort elsewhere and give it to someone else who deserves it. Simple as that. 2
Mme. Chaucer Posted January 17, 2013 Posted January 17, 2013 Right, but then there's the whole, "Putting a woman on a pedestal" situation, too. They figure if they put them on a pedestal in attempts to woo her, it's not manly. lose/lose situation lol If the guy is scared to plan a date because he thinks it will indicate that he's putting a woman on a pedestal, she's probably better off without him. 2
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