JuneJulySeptember Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Because it's easier to join a group of like-minded individuals and complain about lack of success than it is to try and change yourself and seek out success. That's not fair. Complain or not, you don't know what these men are doing to change their fortunes. You have had male attention your whole life. I can tell it from your posts. How would it sound if some woman came on here whining about how she couldn't get men because she was unattractive and a bit socially backward and I said, "Stop whining honey. You gotta improve yourself, lose weight, and get a better job if you want a piece of me." No way. Instead, I'll say, "I'll be the guy to give you a chance because I know what it feels like to be rejected."
blue_jay_bird Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Nice Guys- I found insecure, shut in, emo, bitter. Dicks are Dicks. I guess like everything its a balance. And a smart girl will fine someone in between. At lest I am.
TheZebra Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 How would it sound if some woman came on here whining about how she couldn't get men because she was unattractive and a bit socially backward and I said, "Stop whining honey. You gotta improve yourself, lose weight, and get a better job if you want a piece of me." Wait, what's wrong with saying this? And to answer the rest of your post, most of the bitter men on this forum keep posting useless threads with "insights" about dating and women that are no more than shallow observations of isolated events. Rarely do I see them posting things like - Help me figure out a better wardrobe, what type of places should I go to, how could I have done this better, etc. It's like when I got laid off back in 2011. It was much easier to get together with the other laid off people and complain about how terrible the company was, how unfair they treated us, how we didn't deserve it and all this other BS than it was to go out there and find a job. Luckily all of us had good enough motivation that we kept the pity parties to a minimum and all found new jobs within the next few months. But here's the key thing - the pity parties were fun. It was nice feeling like the underdog. Until you wake up and realize that it was your own darn fault for ending up in that situation in the first place.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Wait, what's wrong with saying this? And to answer the rest of your post, most of the bitter men on this forum keep posting useless threads with "insights" about dating and women that are no more than shallow observations of isolated events. Rarely do I see them posting things like - Help me figure out a better wardrobe, what type of places should I go to, how could I have done this better, etc. It's like when I got laid off back in 2011. It was much easier to get together with the other laid off people and complain about how terrible the company was, how unfair they treated us, how we didn't deserve it and all this other BS than it was to go out there and find a job. Luckily all of us had good enough motivation that we kept the pity parties to a minimum and all found new jobs within the next few months. But here's the key thing - the pity parties were fun. It was nice feeling like the underdog. Until you wake up and realize that it was your own darn fault for ending up in that situation in the first place. That's not true. They ask for advice. Don't assume they're losers who sit on the couch all day just because they are unsuccessful with women and post here. A couple of the guys have pHds and they still struggle with women and post here. So, they are not lazy. The whole reason you might be successful and others not is your god given looks. Do you really want to look down on others with that as your pedestal? I'm just sayin'. I'm not really meaning to pick on you. I know others say it too. I just get sick of the: -no success with women = lazy, incompetent loser assumption.
somedude81 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 Wait, what's wrong with saying this? And to answer the rest of your post, most of the bitter men on this forum keep posting useless threads with "insights" about dating and women that are no more than shallow observations of isolated events. Rarely do I see them posting things like - Help me figure out a better wardrobe, what type of places should I go to, how could I have done this better, etc. Are you paying attention to what guys make what threads? There are a few different camps of bitter guys.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted January 15, 2013 Author Posted January 15, 2013 And to answer the rest of your post, most of the bitter men on this forum keep posting useless threads with "insights" about dating and women that are no more than shallow observations of isolated events. Rarely do I see them posting things like - Help me figure out a better wardrobe, what type of places should I go to, how could I have done this better, etc. I've made an effort to note that I do not know the tendencies of every woman on earth. Merely the trends that I have observed and what I have seen written on this forum and others. It's like when I got laid off back in 2011. It was much easier to get together with the other laid off people and complain about how terrible the company was, how unfair they treated us, how we didn't deserve it and all this other BS than it was to go out there and find a job. Luckily all of us had good enough motivation that we kept the pity parties to a minimum and all found new jobs within the next few months. But here's the key thing - the pity parties were fun. It was nice feeling like the underdog. Until you wake up and realize that it was your own darn fault for ending up in that situation in the first place. I think the difference is you had a job and then were laid off. The correct analogy would be if you had never had a job and every application you ever put in for even menial positions was declined. And then you even sought the aid of a career councilor or specialist and yet were still declined. At that point you'd feel a little differently. Now as far as whose "fault" it is: why does it have to be anyone's fault? When a meteor falls on a schoolbus killing the occupants, no one is at fault. It just happened. I (and I'd bet several other men) have inherited some fairly bad genes that make me unattractive to women. I'm not a total screwup by the way. I wasn't always a 24 (going on 25) year old inexperienced loser. Once upon a time I was an 18-23 year old college kid studying full time while working part time. I'm even in shape and I have a car! Yet even when I was a productive member of society, I couldn't get a date if I was the only guy on campus. Maybe to you it is my fault that I'm here. But, while I'm not going to blame anybody else, I certainly would dispute the idea that I'm to blame. Sometimes things just happen. 1
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 (edited) Seconds - YouTube You could also easily say that for the women who reject men they actually KNOW and LIKE as friends, who have supported them and know all their fears and hopes, but just aren't into in 'that' way. Those could easily turn into fruitful relationships. But approaching some random chick you know nothing about at a cafe who may be a psycho or have her outlaw biker boyfriend waiting outside for you just because her face is nice is more likely to work out? :lmao: Edited January 15, 2013 by JuneJulySeptember 1
jcrew11 Posted January 15, 2013 Posted January 15, 2013 I'm not a total screwup by the way. I wasn't always a 24 (going on 25) year old inexperienced loser. Once upon a time I was an 18-23 year old college kid studying full time while working part time. I'm even in shape and I have a car! Yet even when I was a productive member of society, I couldn't get a date if I was the only guy on campus. Maybe to you it is my fault that I'm here. But, while I'm not going to blame anybody else, I certainly would dispute the idea that I'm to blame. Sometimes things just happen. Are you sure its not your looks? Maybe you are just giving off a weird vibe. Are you too stressed, because that could also be a turnoff? Try dating fat girls or ugly girls, at the very least to boost your confidence. Join a church group. If you're not dating any women, then it is your fault.
Mrlonelyone Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 Your third point is not quite right. Judging weather someone in alpha or beta based on weather you get calls on a Friday night is really missing the point of those terms. First of all, they originated with a scientist who studied the social structure of wolf packs. He started with wolf packs composed on unrelated wolves on animal refuges or in zoos. What he found was that the most aggressive male and female would dominate the pack. He called them the alpha male and alpha female. The rest of the pack were beta's, then the very lowest ranking member was a gamma. The gamma wolf got picked on and was submissive to all other wolves. This was then misapplied to humans, a very different kind of animal than wolves. PUA's used it to justify acting like a total @$$ as a way to get a woman. Among human beings the alpha male and female are not always the ones you want to hang out with on Friday. I.e. your employer, the dean or principle of the school, a court judge, are all people who are real talk, alpha as heck. Their mere opinion can seriously effect your life. The guy you call on a Friday could just be the biggest funniest oaf and good for a laugh. (i.e. Who's more alpha C. Montgomery Burns or Homer Simpson? Who would you rather have a beer with C.M. Burns or Homer Simpson?)
StanMusial Posted January 16, 2013 Posted January 16, 2013 I've done some hard thinking over the past few weeks and I've come to some conclusions. Agree or disagree, I'd like to hear some thoughts. 1. When women complain about how there aren't any "nice guys" it's really a complaint about how the guys they like or are interested in aren't nice. These women know (consciously or subconsciously) that there are plenty of "nice guys" out there but those guys are either unattractive or boring, perhaps both, or have some other negative trait that make them not interested. The problem seems to be that the men that aren't boring and are attractive are just not very "nice" or "pleasant", which is why these women complain. Now, I will be clear, not all women complain about not being able to find nice guys. Plenty of women (perhaps a majority, I don't know because I've never done a poll or a study on the subject) meet nice guys and know how to spot someone off kilter a mile away. And sometimes this is just young women making this complaint because they haven't matured enough to the point of being able to know what they want and what they don't want. Or perhaps most of the men their age aren't nice because they aren't mature enough yet. 2. Women shy away from inexperienced men: I'll be honest, they should shy away. The problem so far as I can tell is three fold. One is the worry that inexperienced guys will be bad at sex, either they won't last that long or they'll try to emulate every move they saw in porn. Another issue is the worry that he'll want to "sow his wild oats" and once he gets a girlfriend and other women start being interested in him he'll be tempted to either stray and cheat or he'll be tempted to break up and pursue other options. And finally, each relationship one has whether failed or successful, causes one to gain more experience and (hopefully) emotional maturity. You learn how to engage with someone as a romantic and personal partner, you learn how relationships work, how they can break down, how they can stay fresh, and how they aren't all roses and butterflies. As you get older, people start to look for more longer term relationships and marriage, the idea of having to "break someone in" for a while is just not an enticing proposition. It can be exhausting to some and just a turnoff for others. These days there are plenty of options in the prospects carousel so there's no need to go after fresh meat. When younger, I don't think this is much of a problem. But when you get into your mid twenties I think the issue just grows and grows. 3. There really are such things as "alpha" and "beta" personalities. I'm not sure if those are the right etymological terms, but I really do think that there are attractive personalities and unattractive personalities. If you're the guy (or gal) that people call up on a Friday or Saturday night when people want to do something, you have an attractive personality. If you're the one desperately calling or texting people because you don't want to be stuck at home, you probably have an unattractive personality. Likewise, if women feel at ease around you and like bantering or flirting with you and it flows easily, your personality is attractive. If you're fumbling for words and women seem kind of taken aback or nervous or looking around for an escape route (like another person to talk to or an "event" they have to urgently attend) you have an unattractive personality. My personal opinion is that this personality thing is largely fixed by nature rather than nurture. In other words I think your personality is largely something that you are inherently. You can learn to mimic more attractive personality types but ultimately it's very difficult to do this for a long time. Eventually the person you are inside will want to come out and will do so. Sorry for the length, and sorry if this sounds too morose or melancholy. But it's some thoughts that I figured I'd share. I'll add some more as I go along. I would say these are valid observations. Not pleasant to hear, but valid.
Author fortyninethousand322 Posted January 16, 2013 Author Posted January 16, 2013 Your third point is not quite right. Judging weather someone in alpha or beta based on weather you get calls on a Friday night is really missing the point of those terms. First of all, they originated with a scientist who studied the social structure of wolf packs. He started with wolf packs composed on unrelated wolves on animal refuges or in zoos. What he found was that the most aggressive male and female would dominate the pack. He called them the alpha male and alpha female. The rest of the pack were beta's, then the very lowest ranking member was a gamma. The gamma wolf got picked on and was submissive to all other wolves. This was then misapplied to humans, a very different kind of animal than wolves. PUA's used it to justify acting like a total @$$ as a way to get a woman. Among human beings the alpha male and female are not always the ones you want to hang out with on Friday. I.e. your employer, the dean or principle of the school, a court judge, are all people who are real talk, alpha as heck. Their mere opinion can seriously effect your life. The guy you call on a Friday could just be the biggest funniest oaf and good for a laugh. (i.e. Who's more alpha C. Montgomery Burns or Homer Simpson? Who would you rather have a beer with C.M. Burns or Homer Simpson?) I know the origins of the terms alpha and beta male which is why I said I don't think those are the etymologically correct terms to use. But, they are used colloquially to describe certain traits that men (and I suppose women) possess. What I mean by "person you want to call on a Friday night" is that alphas are people you are generally drawn to in one way or another. You care about their opinion and what they're doing and you are likely to make an effort to be around them.
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