Is honesty always the best policy?

[canuckprincess]

Shoud you tell the bs about the EMR if you knew they were weak and truly chose to look the other way after dday 1, and believe the ws had ended things? Is it true some people don't want or can't handle the truth? I've read on other sites that the bs does want to know the truth but I don't think all do. What's your take on that. Keep in mind this is in reguards to affairs that are long term and have already had at least one dday.

 

Is there much sense in having a dday 2 when they already know, or is that like beating a dead horse? And rubbing salt in te wounds they already have.

[canuckprincess]

As sure as there's a DDay there is gas liighting, worse if the affair continues. I can speak from observation that people who have had 20 honest years with a person may take a DDay and be convinced its over. They haven't easily internalized that you (anyone) can't believe a word out of the WS mouth. Maybe that does take another DDay sometimes.

 

As for the BS being weak, what's that mean? After all they didn't erect the one who cheated. Many might consider that the weak one in the marriage.

 

I have never seen non disclosure go well. For anyone. Not even the OW who thinks that because she didn't tell on him she won't get damage from a WS or BS.

 

I agree when an affair goes underground there would have to be alot of gaslighting. So how is the best way to do a dday 2, phone call, email, face to face, or snail mail if you decided that complete honesty is rquired. I would think it would have be cold hard facts, something the ws can't rug sweep.

 

I'm refering to emotional weakness and very low self esteem. I'm well aware of the fact ws will throw the ow/om under the bus, that didn't happen after dday 1. So I can't see how he could rug sweep a second time with the same person/affair.

[jwi71]

Shoud you tell the bs about the EMR if you knew they were weak and truly chose to look the other way after dday 1, and believe the ws had ended things?

 

I'm not following this.

 

Is it true some people don't want or can't handle the truth?

 

Yes. And no.

I think most people fear the truth and the resulting consequences.

And then, after the "devastation" subsides, people discover they are stronger and more resilient than they believed - and no longer fear it.

 

People fear the perceived outcome and not the truth itself.

 

I've read on other sites that the bs does want to know the truth but I don't think all do. What's your take on that. Keep in mind this is in reguards to affairs that are long term and have already had at least one dday.

 

I would say that absent speaking to the BS it's all hearsay.

Typically, the BS doesn't have the whole truth. Neither does the AP - only the WS knows and that person greatly benefits from controlling the truth and perceptions.

 

Is there much sense in having a dday 2 when they already know, or is that like beating a dead horse? And rubbing salt in te wounds they already have.

 

If the BS knows there cannot be a d-day 2. The only way there is a d-day 2 is if the WS was lying to the BS.

 

After d-day1 the WS will either tell the BS one of two things:

 

1) the A is over

2) I will not stopping seeing the AP

 

Ultimately, those are the WS's options. Which one leads to a d-day2?

[SunshineToday]

I also think EVERYONE deserves the truth. Especially when it involves their own life.

 

Many years ago my bro-in-law had an affair. He stopped. After it was over and stopped he told my H about it.

 

My H told me, but insisited I not tell my sis-in-law or his bro would never forgive him, they were brothers this was something his brother shared with him, blah blah blah.

 

So guess what I did NOTHING. I felt bad- but oh well (the A was over) easy to do nothing.

And then, my sis-in-law finds out eventually and calls me in tears because how could I not have told her, as a woman. She was right. I was wrong. I learned a hard lesson. And I will never keep my mouth shut again if I find out someone is cheating on someone and I know them.

 

Now if you are approaching a BS with info, I would think you should have some proof (if you can get that) because in the long run it will help the BS accept the situation. I would still tell without proof, even though they might not believe--at least you got the idea out there.

[ComingInHot]

It doesn't make much sense to me why anyone would continue engaging in an A After a D-day. It would seem to me that d-day would let the OM/OW know if the MM/MW were going to leave and if the OW/OM knows the truth of the pain to the BS, why would they want to continue knowing how much a Second d-day would hurt the BS?!?

 

You've got me on this topic for sure*

[buckeyeblue]

Canuck - you would be surprised at how much rugsweeping can go on with the same AP!!

 

To answer your question, yes, you should tell her the affair is still ongoing. Many BSs will forgive the first d-day - especially with promises from the WS - but not a second d-day. If the BS did not really want to know, that is not on you. Telling her is the right thing to do.

[canuckprincess]

Wait, are you speaking in reference to your BH or your MM's BW? I don't know your backstory.

 

It's the mm bw, who may be in utter denial. Just for the record he will never ever hate me.

[Got it]

Canuck, it is impossible to predict the thoughts of others especially in something so complex and emotional as this.

 

She may not want to know, she may want to know. She may not want to know today but tomorrow she will. It is impossible for us to speculate or assume what another thinks, feels, or believes.

 

Having never been a BS who has gone through at least one dday, it is impossible for me to answer this.

 

I am not sure if many on here are qualified to answer that question. There might be one or two.

[thomasb]

I looked at it like this... Should a jury decide someones fate with just partial facts? Why should anyone have to decide on their own life based on lies and innuendo? The truth is always the best. Even in a business deal we try and obtain the most relevant facts.

[waterwoman]

I would want to know.

[MissBee]

Shoud you tell the bs about the EMR if you knew they were weak and truly chose to look the other way after dday 1, and believe the ws had ended things? Is it true some people don't want or can't handle the truth? I've read on other sites that the bs does want to know the truth but I don't think all do. What's your take on that. Keep in mind this is in reguards to affairs that are long term and have already had at least one dday.

 

Is there much sense in having a dday 2 when they already know, or is that like beating a dead horse? And rubbing salt in te wounds they already have.

 

I don't think this situation is a matter of the appropriateness of telling the BS or not.

 

I think that in the case of a dday, if an OW is fed up and done with the MM post-dday, and he attempts to rekindle the A, she will tell him to eff off or be so annoyed that she tells his wife to gain some peace and sanity for herself.

 

If however an OW is interested in continuing the relationship, then if a MM comes back post-dday, she won't have any inclination to tell. Unless of course, she feels as though by telling again she can force the marriage to end.

 

I don't think one is required to tell a BS her husband has attempted to come back, especially if you feel this person is in denial. However, the point is, the only OW who will do this I imagine are those who are done with the MM. But also, if one is done with the MM, one could also tell him to eff off and decide that you want nothing to do with him and his BS so you opt to just stay away and let them figure it out themselves.

[thomasb]

It's the mm bw, who may be in utter denial. Just for the record he will never ever hate me.

 

 

Don't bet your life on this one. i did for a few weeks hate the OW. Then I could have cared less anything about her at all.

[bentnotbroken]

I looked at it like this... Should a jury decide someones fate with just partial facts? Why should anyone have to decide on their own life based on lies and innuendo? The truth is always the best. Even in a business deal we try and obtain the most relevant facts.

^^^^ I like this...I will keep it in mind.

[skylarblue]

I'm not sure I totally understand so my apology if I address the topic in the wrong manner. Do you mean emotionally weak(en) because of the A or in a weak(en) state overall? And when you say "chose to look the other way after dday1 and believe the WS has ended things", do u mean as in not addressing it at all and acting like it didn't happen or in deciding to try and reconcile after dday and the A was ended (because I don't consider that as overlooking). That being said...

 

I don't know how the OW would "know" the BS's emotional state outside of what the WS relayed, which may or may not be true, unless she knows the BS personally/intimately. I think everyone deserve to know the truth particularly of concerns of their life (in this case an A) but no, not everyone would want to or could handle (by "handle" I mean an extreme act like suicide or homicide) knowing. Human behavior isn't without possibility and it would be even harder to gauge the emotions/reactions/thoughts of a stranger. Personally, if the A was continuing AFTER dday, I would want to know. The motives of the OW would not matter. Who told me wouldn't matter, but I would prefer the revelation to come from WS, not that it would change my outlook though.

 

If WS continued to make unwanted and unsolicited contact, I would inform the W (speaking hypothetically). If I was continuing to see MM, telling the W would seem more vengeful then anything else. I'm not saying the you shouldn't tell or the W shouldn't know (I already said she deserved to know and I would want to know (okay people)) or that it would not be a benefit to her. I'm just saying that staying in the A after dday and telling the W for HER benefit seems like contradictory statements. Something more to her benefit would have been OW stepping aside and letting the M try to heal after dday.

[canuckprincess]

I'm not sure I totally understand so my apology if I address the topic in the wrong manner. Do you mean emotionally weak(en) because of the A or in a weak(en) state overall? And when you say "chose to look the other way after dday1 and believe the WS has ended things", do u mean as in not addressing it at all and acting like it didn't happen or in deciding to try and reconcile after dday and the A was ended (because I don't consider that as overlooking). That being said...

 

I don't know how the OW would "know" the BS's emotional state outside of what the WS relayed, which may or may not be true, unless she knows the BS personally/intimately. I think everyone deserve to know the truth particularly of concerns of their life (in this case an A) but no, not everyone would want to or could handle (by "handle" I mean an extreme act like suicide or homicide) knowing. Human behavior isn't without possibility and it would be even harder to gauge the emotions/reactions/thoughts of a stranger. Personally, if the A was continuing AFTER dday, I would want to know. The motives of the OW would not matter. Who told me wouldn't matter, but I would prefer the revelation to come from WS, not that it would change my outlook though.

 

If WS continued to make unwanted and unsolicited contact, I would inform the W (speaking hypothetically). If I was continuing to see MM, telling the W would seem more vengeful then anything else. I'm not saying the you shouldn't tell or the W shouldn't know (I already said she deserved to know and I would want to know (okay people)) or that it would not be a benefit to her. I'm just saying that staying in the A after dday and telling the W for HER benefit seems like contradictory statements. Something more to her benefit would have been OW stepping aside and letting the M try to heal after dday.

 

Dday was brought on by mm, I've tried to step aside many many times but I get suckd back in, within hours. It's hard when you love someone it's even harder when you love more then one.

[firstandlast]

In my experience, the cliche is true. Honesty is the best policy.

 

On the advice of a book (Why Good People Cheat), I tried keeping the worst aspects of my affair secret. (I admitted to an EA but denied the PA.) I wasn't sure whether I wanted to stay in the marriage and figured that 1) if I left, why add the extra pain by revealing the affair, which didn't matter at that point and 2) if I stayed, revealing the affair would automatically doom the marriage.

 

I was wrong on both counts.

 

My wife eventually found out everything, but really needed my confession to begin healing. Admitting it finally allowed us to start fixing the marriage. I realize now that she deserved to know who she's dealing with and decide whether she wants to stay. And getting it out in the open has allowed us to communicate more freely about our marriage -- the strengths and weaknesses -- which I have found to be tremendously helpful. And of course, I'm not afraid to answer her calls anymore, wondering what new evidence she's uncovered.

 

We're not out of the woods yet, but I think we have a much better chance of reconciling now -- because of, not despite, getting it open. I was forced to admit the truth. I only wish I'd been honest from the start.

[stevie_23]

My ex and I were LDR and online / text only. Together almost 2 years. He’s been with his wife now for 4 years, I’ve been with my partner for 11.5 years. I have never had a D-day, but he had several during our time together. Each one got worse.

 

The first was hardly a blip. She was wary but he convinced her I was just a friend, that I was gay (which I thought I was at the time, sort of) and since I lived so far away, there was no threat. (different countries)

 

The second time she took away his phone and laptop for a few days, before he demanded them back so he could work. He then bought a ‘secret’ phone so she wouldn’t know we were still in contact and we only had contact online when she was out or asleep.

 

The third time was bad. She deleted his email account he used to communicate with me, and also took his secret phone away. He went quiet for over 2 weeks, too scared to screw up again as he was sure if she found out again, he’d be out of that house (and while he’s never been happy living there and did originally plan to move out anyway as soon as he could, he had no money, no job at that point, and not the best health. He needed to stay for his own security / safety / stability).

 

Obviously after each of these D-days, we remained in contact. He was just more careful and our time together was more restricted. Now we were only able to have contact when his wife was out of the house.

 

After each D-day, NOTHING was spoken about. She didn’t say anything to him, didn’t ask why, didn’t ask why so LONG with this same person, didn’t get visibly upset. Just took away his phone, his laptop, deleted his email account, and walked out and went to work. Nothing else was ever discussed. After that third D-day, she did email me herself personally to say no “fantasy wife” was going to hurt their marriage and that I needed to know I’d never hear from either of them again (which was not true obviously). I don’t see how she could be so sure I’d never hear from him again when she didn’t even discuss anything about it with him. But each to their own I guess.

 

So…the fourth D-day happened. And now we’re not together anymore.

[road]

It's the mm bw, who may be in utter denial. Just for the record he will never ever hate me.

 

 

Exposing without the how's and why's it is needed it is used to end affairs and recover the marriage.

 

Yes the BS deserves the truth.

 

However for the OP that is looking to expose under the guise of the BS needs the truth so will tell the BS that their WS is sleeping with themselves/OP.

 

That is not exposing.

 

That is rubbing the BS's face in the affair with the hopes that the BS kicks out their WS and then divorces them so the OP can marry the WS themselves.

 

Unbelieveable what people call honesty.

[SunshineToday]

 

After each D-day, NOTHING was spoken about. She didn’t say anything to him, didn’t ask why, didn’t ask why so LONG with this same person, didn’t get visibly upset. Just took away his phone, his laptop, deleted his email account, and walked out and went to work. Nothing else was ever discussed. After that third D-day, she did email me herself personally to say no “fantasy wife” was going to hurt their marriage and that I needed to know I’d never hear from either of them again (which was not true obviously). I don’t see how she could be so sure I’d never hear from him again when she didn’t even discuss anything about it with him. But each to their own I guess.

 

So…the fourth D-day happened. And now we’re not together anymore.

 

Wow on having 4 D-days! But you said your A was online, LDR, so arent you just taking his word on what happened each time? You really dont know what they discussed, right?

[stevie_23]

I know, yes, but I do trust him about that.

 

Everything in his life that he told me about and showed me (in videos, etc) and what he says in public discussion forums and on his Facebook and on his wife’s Facebook, what she says, and what her kids say on their Facebooks, it is all consistent. We used to do heaps of videos for each other, like just wandering around the house, chatting to the other on camera, cooking dinner, putting away groceries, brushing teeth, putting on makeup, getting dressed, etc. A few times someone would come home unexpectedly while he was filming and he’d hide his camera but keep filming, and have a brief conversation with the person (either his wife or one of the 3 kids). Usually not his wife. He wouldn’t risk that. Not after the 2nd D-day. No way.

 

His routines and the stuff he told me he did during the day were true. I saw them on the videos he did for me.

 

So yeah…D-days. 4 of them. The first one happened and he told me about it but there was no difference in how we were together or when and how frequently or anything we could be together. The second one we stayed in contact but it wasn’t regular for 2-3 days. After that he got a new phone (after she took his phone away and then gave it back, but he couldn’t text me from it anymore because she knew about that now).

 

I don’t see why he would’ve told me about each D-day if nothing much changed from it, you know?

[seren]

Stevie, does this mean he gave you access to his wife and children's FB accounts as in passwords and everything? Did he also keep the video on when they were in the house and used to film their conversations etc? I would find this very intrusive and creepy.

I get that you and the MM had a LDR, I don't understand the dynamics of one and am not slighting your experience or feelings. I just cannot get my head around how someone could video conversations, give access to other people's private accounts or share privacy without their knowledge, without it seeming voyeuristic or make me feel a bit uneasy. Maybe I have read this all wrong.

[stevie_23]

No, no, he didn’t film them. Not really. If they happened to walk by or in when he was filming and he had to quickly hide the camera (this didn’t happen often because he mostly only filmed for me when he was at home alone. Too risky to be heard talking to a camera, etc), he’d keep filming until he could safely turn it off. It wasn’t for the purpose of filming them of course, he’d never violate their privacy like that. It was just that he couldn’t switch it off yet, and when he did upload it, he left those parts on for me to see, cause sometimes they were funny, and he’d talked so much about his wife’s kids, like how one was always asking what’s for dinner, and one time she actually did this while he was filming. Stuff like that…

 

No, he never gave me access into his wife or kids’ FB accounts, only HIS. So I could be in there as him and thus SEE their accounts as if I was a friend of their’s. Of course I didn’t do anything and there was nothing to see anyway. He trusted me.

 

He also way back, before his wife knew anything, gave me his home phone number and work number, and his work and home address. He trusted me a LOT. I could’ve wrecked his life (somewhat) with that information if I wanted. Of course I never did and never would.

[stevie_23]

As far as his wife on camera, this was hardly ever. One time he did a funny mock promo “advertisement” for his home studio and showed his “accountant” for the studio while she was sitting at the table doing the books. He did the video for the songwriting forum he’s on, for his friends there and stuff, but showed me as well, before he showed them.

 

The only other time his wife was anywhere in a video was actually in what we called a “talkie”, which he did before he got a webcam and normal camera. He’d talk into his studio microphone for anywhere from 2 minutes to an hour, just talking to me about stuff…feelings, thoughts, what happened that day, a new song he was doing, anything at all. And one time his wife had just come home and was on the phone so he leaned in nearer to the studio door and I heard a bit of her conversation (he’d been talking about the topic of conversation with me just before. About a dog her ex-husband had had. Nothing personal), and it only went for about 20 seconds before he moved away again.

 

The only other time someone else “featured” in the videos he did was if he was filming and his phone rang. Sometimes he’d turn the camera off, but mostly he’d answer it and talk for a bit, hoping it’d be a short conversation so he could get back to talking to me.

 

So that’s it. Nothing creepy. When I did videos, my partner was never home, or if she was, I’d be doing a “silent” video in the bathroom with the door shut and if she happened to knock on the door or say something through the door, I’d keep filming but I’d edit that part out. I respect her privacy too.

[bentnotbroken]

No, no, he didn’t film them. Not really. If they happened to walk by or in when he was filming and he had to quickly hide the camera (this didn’t happen often because he mostly only filmed for me when he was at home alone. Too risky to be heard talking to a camera, etc), he’d keep filming until he could safely turn it off. It wasn’t for the purpose of filming them of course, he’d never violate their privacy like that. It was just that he couldn’t switch it off yet, and when he did upload it, he left those parts on for me to see, cause sometimes they were funny, and he’d talked so much about his wife’s kids, like how one was always asking what’s for dinner, and one time she actually did this while he was filming. Stuff like that…

 

No, he never gave me access into his wife or kids’ FB accounts, only HIS. So I could be in there as him and thus SEE their accounts as if I was a friend of their’s. Of course I didn’t do anything and there was nothing to see anyway. He trusted me.

 

He also way back, before his wife knew anything, gave me his home phone number and work number, and his work and home address. He trusted me a LOT. I could’ve wrecked his life (somewhat) with that information if I wanted. Of course I never did and never would.

 

 

So you had access to friends who did not give their consent to friend you? That would include the children right? Yeah I thought you meant that you were their friend also..not that their posts were being read by someone they weren't associated with.

[BetrayedH]

Canuck,

 

I have only once in nearly two years here seen a BS say they wish they didn't know. It was a sitch where the WS came clean years after he had ended the affair and had been faithful and a good H since. The wife was hurt but had no intention of leaving her H. It made an impression on me that I had actually seen someone say they wished they didn't know.

 

I have since openly asked four times here for ANY BS to come out and say that they wished they didn't know. Not once has anyone done so.

 

Claims that a BS wouldn't or doesn't want to know are highly exaggerated and (without meaning any offense) it makes sense to me that this claim happens so prevalently on this board where it would be nothing short of convenient to believe it.