Bitter betrayed spouses.

[Realist3]

how is it 'projecting' to know that someone's actions may very likely be hurting someone else, and to want to maybe say something that might help stop that person's pain...there is something in a lot of people that wants to help others, even if it's someone they don't know and will never meet or really know much about, other than that they ae being hurt...

 

funny thing is, when people post on here , they never really know who the are responding to...could even be someone the know...

 

I don't think that's "projecting"..

 

I think you are misunderstanding what is meant when someone labels someone as bitter. Like I said earlier there are many ways to get a point across. The bitterness comes from the delivery of that point. One can be abrasive or they can be civil. Two very different takeaways from what might be the same point.

[BetrayedH]

And LFH, is probably right, it mostly comes about on the OW/OM forum where a bunch of BS's gang up on some unsuspecting newbie OW/OM pummelling them with bitterness.

 

It happens here on the infidelity forum plenty, when BSs try to talk sense into a WS (such as coming clean with their BS). It is suddenly suggested that we are just bitter BSs that want to see a trainwreck. It's not accurate and it's a distraction from what should be the conversation.

[Realist3]

To what end? Why? That's the whole question. What conclusion should we draw when someone is called bitter? What is the intent? If you're calling it what it is, what is it?

When someone is attempting to offer an opinion under the guise of advice and their approach is itself hurtful, that is when it should be called what it is.

 

I'm not saying they have to be told what they want to hear.

[Realist3]

The vixee thread is a perfect example. Dogged her as they saw fit, but in doing so their possibly sage advice fell on deaf ears. The more you beat someone up, say mean things to them, insult them, berate them, the less likely they are going to be receptive to what you have to say.

 

 

Which comes back to an essential question. Are you really wanting to offer advice in an effective manner, or is it just to beat someone up while venting your anger and or bitterness towards them? From these eyes it seems like a lot of the latter goes on in both forums.

[BetrayedH]

When someone is attempting to offer an opinion under the guise of advice and their approach is itself hurtful, that is when it should be called what it is.

 

I'm not saying they have to be told what they want to hear.

 

Alright, I can understand that. Perhaps some are just trying to get in a jab at a WS or OP. I think, though, that it's difficult to gauge the intent of the poster. I don't like defending uncivil posters either but in many cases I think it can be argued that "coddling" a poster is less effective than calling a spade, a spade. I try, and probably frequently fail, to use reason to pursuade a poster of a certain action I find to be a more ethical choice but sometimes a wayward or AP might just need to hear that what they are doing is wrong and hurtful. Saying that such a statement comes from a bitter person doesn't change it's truthfulness.

 

If I'm gaining anything from this thread, perhaps it's that we should all be practicing more of what we're preaching because it comes from both sides and I, myself, have been guilty of the emotional outburst from time to time.

[Realist3]

Chicken, meet egg. If OW/M didn't have affairs they wouldn't be complaining about bitter BS. Either in a general or specific sense.

 

At the end of the day the power to end the c le lies with the cheaters.

 

Also, there's the justice element. Dont OW deserve to feel some bitterness from those hurt, if not by them personally by people behaving the same way? Is that nt actually teaching something? Whereas the bitterness tw other way just confirms BS priors. Rightly in general.

 

In a general sense it comes down to that old chestnut, right vs wrong.

 

 

I never read in the forum purpose, revenge of the BS's. The main purpose is support and advice. Sure it is okay to let WS's OW/OM's know how bad their actions may hurt someone, but the malice shown in some of these posts goes beyond that. The are personalizing the situation, that is where the bitterness is exposed. And it doesn't do anyone any good.

[eleanorrigby]

Just my thoughts. Truly, if there is a word that you feel fits better, I'd be happy to use that when I'm trying to convey that a hurt was caused that changed a persons outlook to more cynical and hurt.

 

I prefer "salty".

[Decorative]

I prefer "salty".

 

Mmmmm. Now I want pretzels.

 

LOL

 

I am not hurt- that's not my outlook. I am experienced in new ways and see things differently now.

 

That doesn't make a person bitter. It makes them wiser, and able to see through certain things.

Edited January 14, 2013 by Decorative

[Decorative]

I never read in the forum purpose, revenge of the BS's. The main purpose is support and advice. Sure it is okay to let WS's OW/OM's know how bad their actions may hurt someone, but the malice shown in some of these posts goes beyond that. The are personalizing the situation, that is where the bitterness is exposed. And it doesn't do anyone any good.

 

I don't think as much personalizing goes on as some might think.

 

I think that gets tossed around as a way to discredit a poster's point.

 

But that doesn't make it true.

[woinlove]

The vixee thread is a perfect example. Dogged her as they saw fit, but in doing so their possibly sage advice fell on deaf ears. The more you beat someone up, say mean things to them, insult them, berate them, the less likely they are going to be receptive to what you have to say.

 

 

Which comes back to an essential question. Are you really wanting to offer advice in an effective manner, or is it just to beat someone up while venting your anger and or bitterness towards them? From these eyes it seems like a lot of the latter goes on in both forums.

 

That was a WS thread, so perhaps more in common with some married posters than with single OW/OM, as much of the advice pertained to her M and her H. However, in the end she seemed to take the bulk of the advice, albeit it a very indirect way (anonymous disclosure to start), so not sure why you say that fell on deaf ears.

 

I think anger, bitterness, abrasiveness, unkindness, etc., are sometimes in the eye of the beholder, and as likely to be found in a AP/WS's post as in a BS's post. When one focusses on the topic of the post and addresses the content of posts, threads work better. Calling other posters bitter doesn't satisfy either of these conditions. There are of course other things that make posts unconstructive, but that isn't the topic of this thread.

[eleanorrigby]

Mmmmm. Now I want pretzels.

 

LOL

 

I am not hurt- that's not my outlook. I am experienced in new ways and see things differently now.

 

That doesn't make a person bitter. It makes them wiser, and able to see through certain things.

 

You beat me.

That's another thing about the "bitter" label that irritates me, I always get the feeling that it comes with the assumption that I am or BS in general are just bitter about everything in life because of the infidelity.

[bentnotbroken]

Hmmmm, bitter or judgmental, judgmental or bitter, which is worse for a BS to be?

 

 

Neither for me....I embrace them both.

[Spark1111]

I think bitter is in the eye of the beholder of the post. as is anger, judgement, sadness, painful, smart, rigid and naive.

 

that's the nature of opinions given anonymously on a public forum. I may not agree with your opinion but I have to realize that is the way a portion of the population would feel, could feel about my situation.

 

Again, so what?

 

people take what they need and leave the rest, no?

[Spark1111]

Another question... why is it being assumed that because it's said that some posters are bitter that it's being applied to all?

 

We hear it all the time over here. we also hear we must have DONE SOMETHING for our spouse to have cheated on us.

 

And we hear, from lots o men who have never had an affair, that we must not have been sexual with our spouses.

 

What? you think only APs are stereotyped and harshly insulted or projected upon?

[woinlove]

Another question... why is it being assumed that because it's said that some posters are bitter that it's being applied to all?

 

This often happens when someone labels a whole group of posters without specifying who they put in the group or which post(s) they are referring to. They may say "the bitter BS" or "bunch of bitter BS". I find the ones which try to put down a whole, but unspecified, group derail threads the most, as it puts forward an us and them mentality and sets (or continues) an abrasive tone. Again, if one addresses the content of specific posts (rather than posters) things work much better.

[SidLyon]

...

 

The definition of bitter. Seems accurate, and I can only speak for myself but I don't mean it as an insult.

 

bit·ter(btr)

adj. bit·ter·er, bit·ter·est 1. Having or being a taste that is sharp, acrid, and unpleasant.

2. Causing a sharply unpleasant, painful, or stinging sensation; harsh: enveloped in bitter cold; a bitter wind.

3. Difficult or distasteful to accept, admit, or bear: the bitter truth; bitter sorrow.

4. Proceeding from or exhibiting strong animosity: a bitter struggle; bitter foes.

5. Resulting from or expressive of severe grief, anguish, or disappointment: cried bitter tears.

6. Marked by resentment or cynicism: "He was already a bitter elderly man with a gray face" (John Dos Passos).

 

Bitter is one of those words with several meanings.

 

It's easy to hide behind one of the more "acceptable" meanings less synonymous with "venomous" (in one of its meanings), and pretend it wasn't meant as an insult when it was. Therefore I avoid using it to describe other posters. If I want to express that I think someone is mean, vicious, malicious, venomous etc then I'll use the words "nasty" or "spiteful".

[nofool4u]

My take on the "bitter" comments.

 

If being disgusted by people hurting others just to get what they want is "bitter", then so be it.

 

If being appalled at people who cheat, lie, betray, and do wrong to to others is "bitter", so be it.

 

If you are cut from the same mold as someone I may have dated that was a cheater, liar, betrayer, and that makes me "bitter", so be it.

 

And for those that like to use the "bitter" lame, its interesting that it completely goes over their heads that people wouldn't be "bitter" if people like them didn't exist in the world.

 

Also note, those that use the "bitter" title are the ones that are unapologetic cheaters that will blame the BS at every turn. The evidence is in this thread for sure.

[whichwayisup]

I think a concern is when they decide to get over the anger by bringing it to the OW/OM board and directing it at people who aren't part of their situation. Then some people lash out when we get defensive.

 

And unfortunately the same happens in the infidelity section, OW/OM wander there and take shots at the BS. Though much of it really has nothing to do with each person's situation, many of times it's various posters who just don't get along and get caught up in the side banter.

[Spark1111]

The million-dollar question. Churn, churn, churn. I don't understand it either. Makes you wonder who else IRL they're heaping that abuse & vitriol on.

 

this may be an example. insulting, no?

 

And where did she go? I never heap abuse or vitriol on anyone.

 

So WHO exactly is they? aLL BS spouses?

[whichwayisup]

I don't see being judmental as necessarily bad. Bitter towards someone you don't know? Yep, that's bad.

 

You have any idea how many times people (both BS's and OW, fOW too, as well as all over the site) who get called out for giving their opinion or thoughts and are accused or told that they are judgemental and how being judgemental is so wrong and it's not supportive?

[Realist3]

My take on the "bitter" comments.

 

If being disgusted by people hurting others just to get what they want is "bitter", then so be it.

 

If being appalled at people who cheat, lie, betray, and do wrong to to others is "bitter", so be it.

 

If you are cut from the same mold as someone I may have dated that was a cheater, liar, betrayer, and that makes me "bitter", so be it.

 

And for those that like to use the "bitter" lame, its interesting that it completely goes over their heads that people wouldn't be "bitter" if people like them didn't exist in the world.

 

Also note, those that use the "bitter" title are the ones that are unapologetic cheaters that will blame the BS at every turn. The evidence is in this thread for sure.

 

"Bitter, party of one." That is a joke by the way.

[Spark1111]

"Bitter, party of one." That is a joke by the way.

 

I disagree. That is his opinion and he is very consistent about it.

 

You are shocked that he feels this way about infidelity?

 

That it is morally wrong?

 

realist, many, many people feel that way about those who cheat.

[BetrayedH]

"Bitter, party of one." That is a joke by the way.

 

Lol. Ah, infidelity humor.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I had to "judge" that I was incapable of dealing with my wife's lack of consideration for me. I was eventually going to end up losing my job if I had to keep worrying about her being in martial arts class with OM. I also judged that I would go insane trying to constantly figure out the truth when dealing with someone who had repeatedly proven them self to be capable of giving me false info on all things big to small. I was pretty judgmental. May you lead your life with good judgement. It is what guides your decisions and determines what situations you put yourself into(or keep yourself in).

[nofool4u]

"Bitter, party of one." That is a joke by the way.

 

You aren't fooling anyone.