Repairing the damage

January 13, 2013

Those examples certainly might have been difficult, but the hurt was still the same.

Was the affair going on for those 8 years?

We can agree on that; it made it more difficult and prolonged the reconciliation process. It also added a new dynamic to the trust issues.

No, the affair did not last 8 years. It lasted 3 months and my wife rug swept it for 8 years.

She did the exact same thing as the OP's brother: broke it off, went NC, and "recommitted" to our marriage. Did not seek any counseling. She repressed it for 8 years, and never attempted to address the issues in our marriage or herself. Those patterns (marital/her) continued to repeat themselves until they were addressed in IC and MC 8 years after the fact.

January 13, 2013

Few weeks ago, my brother confided in me that he had an LTA for over 3 years. To say I was shocked is an understatement. He is the most loyal and devoted family man I know. Yes, I knew that his marriage was less than perfect, but I thought that he managed to find peace and contentment with his wife (our family isn't really fond of her, but she is still his wife and they have been married for over 20 years). He is a wonderful father who will do anything for the kids. Finding out he's been having a relationship with another woman for such a long time is absolutely mind boggling.

He decided to end the LTA out of his feelings of guilt towards his family. He is heart broken over the loss of the other woman as he said he has deep feelings for her, but says he has no other choice as he will never leave his family, for many reasons. He doesn't want to confess to his wife. I've even reading here for few days and I know that you all advocate confessing but he is adamant about not doing that. He also doesn't want to do MC or IC. He is a very guarded man, quite the introvert, and never opens up to anyone. I was actually very surprised that he confided in me.

My brother thinks that in time he will just put the LTA behind him and move on with his life as it was before he met the other woman. He just wants to go back to being the good father and husband like his affair never took place. I'm just worried that if his wife will never know, they will never be able to truthfully address the issues that made him be vulnerable to another woman. I'm afraid that if he will carry this burden for the rest of his life and burry his feelings and the implications of his actions through denial, he will end up depressed and ill.

My question is: if there was never a D-Day, no confession, no MC or IC - can he really fix what it was that made him enter the LTA to begin with on his own? Is it possible to just put something so fundamental behind you and move on like nothing ever happened?

Hmm something about this gets my spidey sense going...

You say you are only concerned for his wellbeing and not whether or not the marriage survives. You also comment that your brother is upset at the hurt he has inflicted on the OW.

Questions for you to think about (but not necessarily tell us). Do you have concerns for his wife and his children (your sister-in-law and nieces and nephews)? Do you think they will be adversely affected by his affair irrespective of whether he confesses to his wife? Do you like them and think well of them? Have you got their best interests at heart when you discuss all this with him?

Where are your thoughts about an OW who would callously insert herself into your brother's marriage?

As he's confided in you, hopefully you have given him your opinion about these things.

Edited to add: In your previous thread (about a different affair) you had a lot of concern for the BW and children and condemnation for the MM and OW, and were very keen on the idea of informing the BW. A lot of this seems absent in the current situation.

Edited January 13, 2013 by SidLyon

January 13, 2013

Hmm something about this gets my spidey sense going...

You say you are only concerned for his wellbeing and not whether or not the marriage survives. You also comment that your brother is upset at the hurt he has inflicted on the OW.

Questions for you to think about (but not necessarily tell us). Do you have concerns for his wife and his children (your sister-in-law and nieces and nephews)? Do you think they will be adversely affected by his affair irrespective of whether he confesses to his wife? Do you like them and think well of them? Have you got their best interests at heart when you discuss all this with him?

Where are your thoughts about an OW who would callously insert herself into your brother's marriage?

As he's confided in you, hopefully you have given him your opinion about these things.

Edited to add: In your previous thread (about a different affair) you had a lot of concern for the BW and children and condemnation for the MM and OW, and were very keen on the idea of informing the BW. A lot of this seems absent in the current situation.

Your "Spidey Senses" may tingle all you want. I'm asking questions about my brother whom I love very much and worry about a lot. What do your "Spidey Senses" have to do with him or me? My other thread a while ago was about a situation that was totally different. What does it have to do with my brother? I suggest you put the detective costum back in the box, now.

Obviously my brother's well being is closely tied with the well being of his family. How can he be a good father and husband if he isn't able to sustain this strong front he is maintaining now because he isn't dealing with his issues? I've had my differences with my SIL but I respect that fact that she is my brother's wife and the mother of my nieces and nephews. What I think about her personally has no bearings on my concern for my brother's emotional health. I didn't mention what I personally think of the other woman, as I don't think that who he is and what she did has anything to do with the future of my brother's marriage and staeof mind. The other woman may be very significant to YOU, in YOUR SITUATION, but I think that she is irrelevant in my brother's situation.

So the question remains the same - will he be able to deal with it himself and come out a healthy and happy man on the other side.

January 13, 2013

Your "Spidey Senses" may tingle all you want. I'm asking questions about my brother whom I love very much and worry about a lot. What do your "Spidey Senses" have to do with him or me? My other thread a while ago was about a situation that was totally different. What does it have to do with my brother? I suggest you put the detective costum back in the box, now.

Obviously my brother's well being is closely tied with the well being of his family. How can he be a good father and husband if he isn't able to sustain this strong front he is maintaining now because he isn't dealing with his issues? I've had my differences with my SIL but I respect that fact that she is my brother's wife and the mother of my nieces and nephews. What I think about her personally has no bearings on my concern for my brother's emotional health. I didn't mention what I personally think of the other woman, as I don't think that who he is and what she did has anything to do with the future of my brother's marriage and staeof mind. The other woman may be very significant to YOU, in YOUR SITUATION, but I think that she is irrelevant in my brother's situation.

So the question remains the same - will he be able to deal with it himself and come out a healthy and happy man on the other side.

No need to be offensive about me personally, or to shout. I happen to disagree that the OW is unimportant in your brother's situation as you stated he is grieving over the end of the affair and her hurt, which probably makes her significant to his healing and happiness. In my opinion he needs to take her off any pedestal and see her for what she is, as well as see his own actions for what they are, as do you I suggest if you really want to be of any help.

In answer to your question. I think honesty is always the best policy, which means I think the BW should be made aware. It doesn't matter to me whether the MM tells, the OW tells or the MM's sister tells. Nor do the motivations matter.

A BW is likely to feel doubly betrayed if she finds out the MM's family knew and kept it from her. I would suggest you have obligations not only to your brother but to his family as well. Most people in your situation feel a bit angry at the person who has put them into this dilemma. You certainly appeared annoyed about this in your other thread.

January 13, 2013

I actually agree with you. Unfortunately he thinks that by ending the EMR, having firm NC, not actively lying anymore and simply plowing along he IS working on the marriage, and his own work will be sufficient to repair the damage.

I don't know if is possible.

What work? You've stated earlier that he refuses to go to IC. He refuses to go to MC (not worthwhile if he is going to lie). He refuses to confess to his wife. Rug Sweeping is not work. It's the opposite of work; it's conflict avoidance behavior.

Is this the same rationalization that allowed him to cheat on his wife and kids for 3 years?

January 13, 2013

To add to SidLyon's point- my inlaws knew of the affair.

We have very little contact with them now. They aren't friends of our marriage or our family.

That's a point to consider. Your brother has made you an accomplice in the continued deception of his wife.

January 13, 2013

No need to be offensive about me personally, or to shout. I happen to disagree that the OW is unimportant in your brother's situation as you stated he is grieving over the end of the affair and her hurt, which probably makes her significant to his healing and happiness. In my opinion he needs to take her off any pedestal and see her for what she is, as well as see his own actions for what they are, as do you I suggest if you really want to be of any help.

In answer to your question. I think honesty is always the best policy, which means I think the BW should be made aware. It doesn't matter to me whether the MM tells, the OW tells or the MM's sister tells. Nor do the motivations matter.

A BW is likely to feel doubly betrayed if she finds out the MM's family knew and kept it from her. I would suggest you have obligations not only to your brother but to his family as well. Most people in your situation feel a bit angry at the person who has put them into this dilemma. You certainly appeared annoyed about this in your other thread.

Lets put the matter in my former thread to rest since t seems to be clouding your ability to focus on the matter at hand. The situation was very different. It was a former employee of ours and one of our subs. Their conduct was inappropriate and was very upsetting for me as I somehow felt responsible that they met while both working for us. Obviously, I understand that they could have met and carried on their affair anywhere, but at the time it all made me upset. These two made light of the implications and the consequences of the situation and actually both showed immense disrespect for the marriage as well as our workplace.

Lets moe on from that, shall we? This is a totally different matter.

If you knew my brother and was aware how much of an introvert he is and how he NEVER confides in anyone about anything (ever since he was a little kid) and how he keeps everything bottled up inside, then you would know how much of a burden all this was for him, that he decided to confide in me. I cant even begin to imagine the toll that all this has taken on him until he couldn't take it anymore and came to me weeping in anguish. Do you really think that I will express any anger towards him or betray his trust? Not in this lifetime.

I don't expect the other woman to tell based on some TMI factors, I certainly will not betray my brother's trust, and it doesn't seem likely that my brother will confess either. So that's that.

I haven't put the other woman on a pedestal as I really don't know her and as I said she isn't relevant anymore. He made a decision to end the LTA and be NC, and the other woman has respected his wishes. That's all there is to know about her. She isn't my concern. Her morals and her conduct aren't my concerns.

My brother is extremely remorseful. I don't see a problem with his acknowledgement that he has hurt many people, including the other woman. Yes, he hurt himself and his family even if they are unaware of his LTA, but he has hurt the other woman too. The absence of a ring doesn't make her less human. I would expect nothing less than compassion and care from him since he did have a LTA with her and shared feelings and intimacy. This does not negate in any way my own feelings and opinions regarding infidelity in general, and my brother's actions in particular.

January 13, 2013

We can agree on that; it made it more difficult and prolonged the reconciliation process. It also added a new dynamic to the trust issues.

No, the affair did not last 8 years. It lasted 3 months and my wife rug swept it for 8 years.

She did the exact same thing as the OP's brother: broke it off, went NC, and "recommitted" to our marriage. Did not seek any counseling. She repressed it for 8 years, and never attempted to address the issues in our marriage or herself. Those patterns (marital/her) continued to repeat themselves until they were addressed in IC and MC 8 years after the fact.

So after you found out did things get better?

I know this may come across as cold, but it is not my intent. But a three month decision/act had that much influence on her overall standing in regards to your marriage?

January 13, 2013

Lets put the matter in my former thread to rest since t seems to be clouding your ability to focus on the matter at hand. The situation was very different. It was a former employee of ours and one of our subs. Their conduct was inappropriate and was very upsetting for me as I somehow felt responsible that they met while both working for us. Obviously, I understand that they could have met and carried on their affair anywhere, but at the time it all made me upset. These two made light of the implications and the consequences of the situation and actually both showed immense disrespect for the marriage as well as our workplace.

Lets moe on from that, shall we? This is a totally different matter.

If you knew my brother and was aware how much of an introvert he is and how he NEVER confides in anyone about anything (ever since he was a little kid) and how he keeps everything bottled up inside, then you would know how much of a burden all this was for him, that he decided to confide in me. I cant even begin to imagine the toll that all this has taken on him until he couldn't take it anymore and came to me weeping in anguish. Do you really think that I will express any anger towards him or betray his trust? Not in this lifetime.

I don't expect the other woman to tell based on some TMI factors, I certainly will not betray my brother's trust, and it doesn't seem likely that my brother will confess either. So that's that.

I haven't put the other woman on a pedestal as I really don't know her and as I said she isn't relevant anymore. He made a decision to end the LTA and be NC, and the other woman has respected his wishes. That's all there is to know about her. She isn't my concern. Her morals and her conduct aren't my concerns.

My brother is extremely remorseful. I don't see a problem with his acknowledgement that he has hurt many people, including the other woman. Yes, he hurt himself and his family even if they are unaware of his LTA, but he has hurt the other woman too. The absence of a ring doesn't make her less human. I would expect nothing less than compassion and care from him since he did have a LTA with her and shared feelings and intimacy. This does not negate in any way my own feelings and opinions regarding infidelity in general, and my brother's actions in particular.

I've given you my opinion about honesty in a marriage, informing the BW of an affair and how best to support someone in your brother's situation, including viewing the OW in a poor light.

You seem to be choosing to ignore what I write and focusing instead on discrediting me, how great your brother is, how he and his OW are essentially star-crossed lovers separated by his duty to wife and kids, and differentiating why this affair was so different to the normal, sordid run-of-mill affair your work colleague was involved in.

You won't help your brother much by putting me straight.

Edited to add: what on earth does "schlepping" mean anyway. I'm not from the USA and it's not a word I'm familiar with, but doesn't sound a nice way to describe a caring father's relationship with his children.

Edited January 13, 2013 by SidLyon

January 14, 2013

Can you please explain?

Right now the kids are enough of a distraction and a buffer that he can keep himself wrapped up with their activities and daily lives. They are all teens and he is always schlepping one or two of them to school, sports, friends etc. I'm afraid of that will happen when the kids are all grow up and have their own lives, and my bother and his wife will be on their own.

I don't think that they intentionally use the kids as buffers or a distraction, but I believe that this is what's been going on. Everything revolves around the kids and their activities.

What will happen when the kids are grown and ave their own lives?

Answering my own question it apparently means either hauling a burden or undertaking a tedious or difficult journey. It must have been difficult for his OW that he was always doing this.

Edited January 14, 2013 by SidLyon

January 14, 2013

Answering my own question it apparently means either hauling a burden or undertaking a tedious or difficult journey. It must have been difficult for his OW that he was always doing this.

I have no idea what was difficult for his other woman. Who cares? Why would that matter? I find is really weird that you put so much focus on her. She is out of the picture. I will repeat - she is in his past. He let her go. She complied. End of story. What does she have to do with my question? Can he fix the marriage by himself if there was no discovery and or counseling? Will he be able to stay healthy and happy in his life if nothing will be really addressed between the of of them?

For the record - Schlepping is a word commonly used where we are from. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. My friend might call me and say: "will you schlepp me to the mall I need shoes and my car is being serviced". wow. So happy you found something this significant in my posts to hang your coat on.

January 14, 2013

I have no idea what was difficult for his other woman. Who cares? Why would that matter? I find is really weird that you put so much focus on her. She is out of the picture. I will repeat - she is in his past. He let her go. She complied. End of story. What does she have to do with my question? Can he fix the marriage by himself if there was no discovery and or counseling? Will he be able to stay healthy and happy in his life if nothing will be really addressed between the of of them?

For the record - Schlepping is a word commonly used where we are from. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. My friend might call me and say: "will you schlepp me to the mall I need shoes and my car is being serviced". wow. So happy you found something this significant in my posts to hang your coat on.

Your question has been answered multiple times by people.

He cannot truly repair his marriage without telling his wife, getting individual counseling, and doing the hard work.

He is proposing rugsweeping, and asking you to be a party to the continued deception of his wife.

What will happen is the marriage will not improve, and he'll either eventually trip on the lump under the rug, or he'll cheat again because he's done

zero work on himself.

It is what it is. And anyone who advises you to keep his counsel , or for him not to tell- I'd look long and hard and what their personal stories and situations are. I know that was raised as a point earlier in this thread- by a person attempting to disqualify telling as an option.

But as someone who is in a successful reconciliation - I am telling you- the hallmark of that is emotional intimacy and honesty, about all things past and present.

January 14, 2013

Something gives me the feeling that the person posting as "brother" may actually be 1) the cheating husband himself, pretending to be his "brother" or his 2) OW pretending to be his "brother."

I'm leaning towards it being the OW due to the aggressively nasty attitude being expressed towards anyone who questions the OP's reasoning, as well as the incredibly obvious efforts to try and deflect everyone away from discussion the OW's role in the whole thing.

It sounds like it might be an OW who has been thrown under the bus/dumped by her MM and wants to rationalize causing a D day by going to her MM's betrayed spouse and spilling the beans about their affair--in reality as vengeance for being dumped, and/or to try to break up the marriage; but pretending it's because she "cares" about him and his marriage.

However if you are really the brother OP then simply tell your brother he has 24 hours to tell his wife or you will tell her since you don't want the burden of keeping his dirty little secret for the rest of your life.

January 14, 2013

Few weeks ago, my brother confided in me that he had an LTA for over 3 years. To say I was shocked is an understatement. He is the most loyal and devoted family man I know. Yes, I knew that his marriage was less than perfect, but I thought that he managed to find peace and contentment with his wife (our family isn't really fond of her, but she is still his wife and they have been married for over 20 years). He is a wonderful father who will do anything for the kids. Finding out he's been having a relationship with another woman for such a long time is absolutely mind boggling.

He decided to end the LTA out of his feelings of guilt towards his family. He is heart broken over the loss of the other woman as he said he has deep feelings for her, but says he has no other choice as he will never leave his family, for many reasons. He doesn't want to confess to his wife. I've even reading here for few days and I know that you all advocate confessing but he is adamant about not doing that. He also doesn't want to do MC or IC. He is a very guarded man, quite the introvert, and never opens up to anyone. I was actually very surprised that he confided in me.

My brother thinks that in time he will just put the LTA behind him and move on with his life as it was before he met the other woman. He just wants to go back to being the good father and husband like his affair never took place. I'm just worried that if his wife will never know, they will never be able to truthfully address the issues that made him be vulnerable to another woman. I'm afraid that if he will carry this burden for the rest of his life and burry his feelings and the implications of his actions through denial, he will end up depressed and ill.

My question is: if there was never a D-Day, no confession, no MC or IC - can he really fix what it was that made him enter the LTA to begin with on his own? Is it possible to just put something so fundamental behind you and move on like nothing ever happened?

I haven't read anything but your opening post but I suspect you know the answer to your own question. No, he can't.

January 14, 2013

Something gives me the feeling that the person posting as "brother" may actually be 1) the cheating husband himself, pretending to be his "brother" or his 2) OW pretending to be his "brother."

I'm leaning towards it being the OW due to the aggressively nasty attitude being expressed towards anyone who questions the OP's reasoning, as well as the incredibly obvious efforts to try and deflect everyone away from discussion the OW's role in the whole thing.

It sounds like it might be an OW who has been thrown under the bus/dumped by her MM and wants to rationalize causing a D day by going to her MM's betrayed spouse and spilling the beans about their affair--in reality as vengeance for being dumped, and/or to try to break up the marriage; but pretending it's because she "cares" about him and his marriage.

However if you are really the brother OP then simply tell your brother he has 24 hours to tell his wife or you will tell her since you don't want the burden of keeping his dirty little secret for the rest of your life.

Wow. Amazing psychoanalysis. I'm the other woman. Causing a D day. I wonder where you got that. And why...

But I do like your advice to threaten my brother to expose him. Great family vales. Thank god we are not related.

January 14, 2013

I have no idea what was difficult for his other woman. Who cares? Why would that matter? I find is really weird that you put so much focus on her. She is out of the picture. I will repeat - she is in his past. He let her go. She complied. End of story. What does she have to do with my question?

Can he fix the marriage by himself if there was no discovery and or counseling? Will he be able to stay healthy and happy in his life if nothing will be really addressed between the of of them?

For the record - Schlepping is a word commonly used where we are from. It has no negative connotation whatsoever. My friend might call me and say: "will you schlepp me to the mall I need shoes and my car is being serviced". wow. So happy you found something this significant in my posts to hang your coat on.

In my opinion, the OW has everything to do with your questions because she is the one who helped him betray his family and he is apparently still thinking of her from what you said. You have said a couple of times that he is mourning for her and the hurt he caused her. That she deserves compassion and good treatment from him. You raised this not me.

As I've said already in my opinion he (and you because you are apparently helping him) need to see her actions in the light of the actions of a person who is not a nice person. It's good that she's out of it and not posting to Infidelity forums pretending she is someone else isn't it? However you apparently don't want any focus on her and her actions so just ignore my opinion if you don't like it. For the record I do think it's good that you are keen for your brother to leave her behind and never contact her again. It's the right thing to do.

As for your repeated question about can he fix the marriage on his own. My answer is "I doubt it". Marriages do better with honesty between people. Your brother has been dishonest and deceitful but he can change this if he wants. Most people on this forum have given you the advice essentially that honesty is the best policy.

Schlepping appeared to me to have negative connotations. AS I said I'm not from where you are so thanks for explaining. I'm not aware I hung my coat on it. I mentioned it almost as an afterthought. For the record I don't think your brother has been an ideal husband and father and I find it "really weird" (your words to me) that you do.

As I said before, convincing me will not solve anything for you. There's no point trying because I have my own opinions and am not the one in the situation you are in. You have asked for advice/opinions/thoughts. You won't agree with everything.

The strange thing is that you seem to agree that going on as he has been, being dishonest will not solve anything for him. If I'm right you should be talking with him about coming clean to his wife and reconciling with her.

Do you agree that he ought to be coming clean with his wife because it may adversely affect him well into the future, or are you tending to wards him keeping this secret?

If so, there's not a lot of difference between us is there? No need to be hostile just because we disagree about the OW who we both agree should be left behind, just a matter of when that's all.

January 14, 2013

In my opinion, the OW has everything to do with your questions because she is the one who helped him betray his family and he is apparently still thinking of her from what you said. You have said a couple of times that he is mourning for her and the hurt he caused her. That she deserves compassion and good treatment from him. You raised this not me.

As I've said already in my opinion he (and you because you are apparently helping him) need to see her actions in the light of the actions of a person who is not a nice person. It's good that she's out of it and not posting to Infidelity forums pretending she is someone else isn't it? However you apparently don't want any focus on her and her actions so just ignore my opinion if you don't like it. For the record I do think it's good that you are keen for your brother to leave her behind and never contact her again. It's the right thing to do.

As for your repeated question about can he fix the marriage on his own. My answer is "I doubt it". Marriages do better with honesty between people. Your brother has been dishonest and deceitful but he can change this if he wants. Most people on this forum have given you the advice essentially that honesty is the best policy.

Schlepping appeared to me to have negative connotations. AS I said I'm not from where you are so thanks for explaining. I'm not aware I hung my coat on it. I mentioned it almost as an afterthought. For the record I don't think your brother has been an ideal husband and father and I find it "really weird" (your words to me) that you do.

As I said before, convincing me will not solve anything for you. There's no point trying because I have my own opinions and am not the one in the situation you are in. You have asked for advice/opinions/thoughts. You won't agree with everything.

The strange thing is that you seem to agree that going on as he has been, being dishonest will not solve anything for him. If I'm right you should be talking with him about coming clean to his wife and reconciling with her.

Do you agree that he ought to be coming clean with his wife because it may adversely affect him well into the future, or are you tending to wards him keeping this secret?

If so, there's not a lot of difference between us is there? No need to be hostile just because we disagree about the OW who we both agree should be left behind, just a matter of when that's all.

My personal opinions about infidelity are not the issue here. Nor are my thoughts regarding the other woman's character or morals. I don't believe that there is one person who will say that being in a LTA or any kind of infidelity is the right thing to do, or something that good and moral people should aspire to. But what's done is done. My brother and/or the other woman cannot unring that bell. Whether my brother thinks that she is satan or saint has no bearing on his decision to end their relationship. How he feels about her and how he views her conduct is irrelevant to his future. I honestly don't get this focus on her and her role in the LTA. Of course she was there with him, but now the relationship is over, and I absolutely believe him when he says he regrets it all.

I did advise him to come clean with my SIL. He won't hear of it. I advised him to seek counseling, I even offered to pay for it, he refused. I told him mid-day today that I posted about his situation here and what the answers were. He listened to me and said he will think about it but he can't promise the he will change his mind.

January 14, 2013

But even if he won't follow your advice to be honest with his wife, you are obligated to follow your own advice to be honest with her. You can't control his actions, but you control your own actions.

Honesty isn't just not explicitly telling a lie, it's also failure to reveal the truth when it should be revealed. You obviously think your bro's wife should know about the affair, which is why you told him he should tell her.

If she should know, and he won't tell her, then you must tell her. By sharing his secret with you, your brother imposed the moral obligation on you to do the right thing if he is unwilling to do so. Sorry but once he told you that bell cant unring either.

If not stop posting looking for people to tell you its OK for you not to tell since that's obviously your objective and you get angry and nasty when people tell you you should tell.

I will stop posting when I feel I have gotten everything that I needed. You, however, are free to stop responding in my thread if you find my attitude so offensive.

January 14, 2013

My personal opinions about infidelity are not the issue here.

I don't agree. You came here asking for other people's advice. Your personal opinion about infidelity influenced the questions you asked and the way your questions were asked, and your subsequent disagreement with some posters.

Some people including myself made various comments and you came on strongly disagreeing. Obviously your personal opinions strongly colour your responses. If you don't like what some of us say then you are free to ignore.

Nor are my thoughts regarding the other woman's character or morals. I don't believe that there is one person who will say that being in a LTA or any kind of infidelity is the right thing to do, or something that good and moral people should aspire to. But what's done is done. My brother and/or the other woman cannot unring that bell. Whether my brother thinks that she is satan or saint has no bearing on his decision to end their relationship. How he feels about her and how he views her conduct is irrelevant to his future.

Again I don't agree (but you are free to disagree). I've already explained that it's my view that in order to recover a marriage after infidelity, not only is total honesty required but the WS needs to view the infidelity and the AP in a more realistic light than when in the affair.

Rug-sweeping immediately after the affair is over does no good. Is your brother still in contact with the OW in any way shape or form (eg working together) because that will significantly hamper him in getting over the OW?

As a fBW who is more than 4 years past d-day and in a (nearly) recovered marriage I speak from personal experience. It's not everybody's experience but anecdotally from reading LS it appears to be quite common that recovered marriages have had disclosure and honesty in them, as well as a more realistic view of the OW. I get that you disagree, but really there's no need to be hostile about the fact that not everybody agrees with you. You are here for advice right?

I honestly don't get this focus on her and her role in the LTA. Of course she was there with him, but now the relationship is over, and I absolutely believe him when he says he regrets it all.

His regrets and remorse really need to be expressed to his wife who is after all the person he has hurt and betrayed the most. An apology to you (his sister?) is pretty worthless really.

I did advise him to come clean with my SIL. He won't hear of it. I advised him to seek counseling, I even offered to pay for it, he refused. I told him mid-day today that I posted about his situation here and what the answers were. He listened to me and said he will think about it but he can't promise the he will change his mind.

That's good.

My responses in bold above.

Edited January 14, 2013 by SidLyon

January 14, 2013

Thank you guys for your responses. I appreciate the advice.

January 14, 2013

Right or wrong, I totally understand how you feel about your brother. He sounds a lot like my brother who is strong, hardworking, dependable, reliable but also stoic, introverted and never opens up about his feelings. My brother has such a difficult time showing emotion or talking about feelings, but I love him to death and he has my heart. If he ever came to me to confide about anything I would treat him with nothing but compassion and care. I would never be angry with.

But I'm always true to myself and I always tell the truth, especially to the people I love the most. So If my brother came to me with a problem such as this I would feel compelled to tell him what I really think, which is that I don't believe for a moment that his marriage will ever be a truly happy,intimate, honest union as long as he is keeping secrets from his wife. I'd tell him that dishonesty of this magnitude is the very thing that could lead him to an early grave. That he is cheating himself and his wife out of living authentic lives and that it isn't fair for him to do that just because he is too cowardly to come out of his comfort zone and be real. And yes, if he was really struggling with getting over the OW and letting her go I might ask him to consider that his image of the OW may have been at least partly built on his fantasy of her and not the reality of who she really is. I would ask him to consider that perhaps a woman who would bank her happiness on breaking up another womans family isn't all that great of a catch afterall. I would ask him if it's at all possible that he had built her up into more than she really was because he was unhappy and using her to escape the hardwork of really changing and making his real life better. I wouldn't ask him those things to belittle him or attack the OW but only to present him with another perspective to help him get over the affair and help him see that the way he has been living isn't working and if wants better than he has to do better.

I appreciate your understanding of the situation.

He HAS let the other woman go. He isn't struggling with his decision to end the LTA. It is over. They don't work together. They don't have mutual acquaintances. Firm and irrevocable NC is in place. He is very clear that ending the LTA was his only choice and the right thing to do. That's why I don't think that the other woman's character is a factor here. Obviously, if he were to consider leaving his family in order to be with the other woman, then her character and morals would come into discussion. But he IS NOT LEAVING HIS FAMILY. Of that he is completely sure. The other woman is in his past. Who she is and what she did is of no importance. He understands that HE made a huge mistake. There is no doubt about that. The only issue is whether he will come clean and seek professional help or not, and that's up to him.

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