Dating older men

[edgygirl]

Sounds like you are dating guys who don't know how to have a conversation. IMO conversations on the first few dates should be like a game of tennis, volley and return, volley and return.

 

Could be... but they seem well adjusted, normal, intelligent guys... so I find it hard to believe they wouldn't know how to interact with a woman in this manner you're describing. Or perhaps they don't, and that's why they're older and still single

 

I mean it's not as the whole convo is about me, I do ask things about their lives and interests, but fitchick might be right I have to find a way to make them talk more than me, I think it might be more beneficial in the long run. Not sure if it's a Jewish Northeast guy thing, but they do NOT like to talk about themselves that much (?)

[edgygirl]

Nothing wrong with answering their questions because you don't want to seem rude, but keep it short and to the point, don't elaborate:

 

Man: "Which countries have you lived in?"

 

Edgy: "Spain, England, France and Italy. Italy was my favorite. How about you, do you like to travel? Where have you been? Which are your favorites? What did you like about it? What did you think of the people? Where would you like to go next?"

 

Deflect!

 

Good point, I'll keep that in mind, thanks! I go into too much detail indeed when someone asks me a question and it evolves to things I didn't mean to even say to start with. I have to turn it to THEM.

 

haha, see, I usually think I am great at interactions (people usually say I'd be a great PR) but seems I have to re-learn some things.

[carhill]

I am up for going on more dates even if the first one was not a total success, but as I said, I never had a good first date with older guys, and they never asked me out again... so that remains to be seen.

 

Tip: If your style is naturally open and vivacious, present that authentically on the date. Observe the response. I mention this because I'm hearing you presenting 'serious' as a potential antithetical personality style/trait to what you naturally prefer and apparently act like. Be yourself. If 'himself' doesn't respond in a synergistic way, that's good information.

 

Another tip, more of a general one: Some men are 'keyboard romeos' and their online style isn't well-reflected in personal interaction. As relationships are a 'pressing flesh' interaction, the interaction in real life should IMO control. IOW, as an example, if he's witty online and serious in person, consistently, then serious is his real life persona. He may just need the right impetus to 'turn off' the serious tape, or that's just how he is. Either way, that's on him.

 

Last tip: Older men *can* be set in their ways. Such a man will usually present those consistencies fairly early. If his routine is disrupted, his response is usually good insight.

 

Good luck.

[edgygirl]

Thanks a bunch, carhill. See, middle-aged men behavior is still a mystery to me and you're helping decipher it... I need a book on that!

 

Not sure why I find them so hard to understand, I think I'm a good people reader.

Edited January 12, 2013 by edgygirl

[Radu]

Good point, I'll keep that in mind, thanks! I go into too much detail indeed when someone asks me a question and it evolves to things I didn't mean to even say to start with. I have to turn it to THEM.

 

haha, see, I usually think I am great at interactions (people usually say I'd be a great PR) but seems I have to re-learn some things.

 

I have a similar problem to yours.

 

My family is one of introverts, it did not prepare me well for a life of social interactions [pls follow the below].

When i got out there, i found that ppl generally test you by interrupting you.

At that point, i am too polite to interrupt them back when i don't know them that well, and my shyness kicks in. I lower my voice but still speak.

With time the group gets used to speaking over me.

Give it a few months and their attitude starts to be like 'pfft, Radu', and they roll their eyes.

 

Because of the above, when i do talk with someone who is close to me, i tend to bombard with information.

I don't sieve through it, it's like i'm afraid that i will be interrupted.

I also started eventually to develop a certain lack of mystery when i have my first interactions with new ppl.

It also comes from my being an introvert, and not having the 'mystery filter'.

Both of these have come together to create a constant of me bombarding ppl with information ... like i'm afraid i will be interrupted.

 

What brought me to the realisation that i need to change this was something i read in a book.

If you provide something to ppl without having them to even work for it a little, it has little value.

Not offering all of the information at first means that ppl will ask follow up questions or you have subjects for future conversations, you keep up the mystery act. Women [and i presume men as well] like mysterious.

You can even take this further when you tell a story.

Go into detail, but go over crucial elements of the story. Build to a point, offer all the information you want up to that point, and then just leave out something important, and end it.

What happens is that their minds [if they followed you on the story arc], will ask them 'what happened there', and there you have your follow up story and hook.

 

Last week i met a new group of ppl, and this time i'm a bit more guarded, a bit more mysterious.

Seems to work so far.

[edgygirl]

Wow Radu, so I get from your post that both introverts (you) and extroverts (me) have the same problem? Hilarious.

 

Anyway, I appreciate your insight. I am too open indeed and don't leave any mystery there. I used to think that by being open someone would know if they relate to me and can start a relationship with me, but I guess it's a naive way of thinking as humans usually like mystery and are attracted to it.

 

I also loved the phrase "If you provide something to ppl without having them to even work for it a little, it has little value." - when I like someone I usually give too much too soon - be it affection or sharing my life and ideas.

 

Guess I will have to work on being the opposite of what I used to think was the right thing to do/be... ugh.

 

Good to hear your new approach is working. I think I'm gonna go for that.

 

But still, deep of my mind, I think if I am not open and show how I can be fascinating or interesting, how exactly is one going to fall for me? I guess that's my main dating dilemma.

[charlietheginger]

Alot of older men try dating younger women.

But the man often feels like the women is his

little sister or even his duaghter.

 

It only works if the older man has no kids

And was never married then bending you

Over banging you he wont feel guilty.

[StanMusial]

Alot of older men try dating younger women.

But the man often feels like the women is his

little sister or even his duaghter.

 

It only works if the older man has no kids

And was never married then bending you

Over banging you he wont feel guilty.

 

 

Lol.

 

I don't get the whole older women/younger man thing. A couple years' difference is no big deal but anything more seems sketchy. I have only seen a handful of relationships personally like this and they all ended badly. On the flipside, I know several guys that married girls 7+ years younger and they are happy 10 years on.

[edgygirl]

Hey thanks for the input guys but this is not another one of these threads about age-difference relationships, and certainly not about men dating younger women (please spare me from this as I've heard enough non constructive opinions about it from the Boys Bitter Brigade here before and it could not interest me less).

 

In any case, I appreciate more input from 35-50something guys about dating women in the same age group and female experiences in dating guys a little older than them as it's hard to see threads about it here. I want to understand how mature 40-50s yo guys who want to date within their age group see dating (not how 30-40-50s guys who want to date younger females view dating).

Edited January 13, 2013 by edgygirl

[outsidethebox]

Interesting insight you provide, edgygirl. I'm here to learn and these are the kind of threads to learn from.

 

The main things that struck me were your varied accomplished life and your experience that older men didn't ask you out again. I personally don't see that as because you were too fun, not serious enough, etc.

 

It's possible that you end up one upping a guy every time with your vast experience and knowledge, I guess maybe could be seen as emasculating him. I don't know. The right guy would be intrigued. Might require a James Bond though.

 

Question: what does the art of your avatar supposed to suggest for those that are able to interpret art?

 

Another question: You said that dating was not a part of your former culture. What is the alternative? Arranged marriages?

 

Hope you get some more insights in this thread. Thanks.

[EasyHeart]

I don't think there's anything different about dating us old-timers. I think that older people are more serious about dating, but for women that typical starts in their late 20s-early 30s; for men it's probably mid-30s.

 

By more serious, I mean that younger people are usually just looking for someone to do stuff with (eg, screw and go places together). As you get older, you're more interested in finding someone to just be with.

 

I think of first dates kind of like first job interviews: they are fact-finding missions. Plus, I'm trying to get a general feel of the woman to see if I can see myself sitting on the couch with her, watching BtVS reruns and picking potato chips and M&Ms from her lap.

 

I'm like FitChick in that I like to get the other person to talk more than me. If she and I went on a first date, it would go something like this:

 

EH: So tell me about yourself.

FC: No, you tell me about yourself.

EH: Oh, I'm not very interesting. I want to hear about you.

FC: But I want to hear about you.

EH: No, I want to hear about you.

FC: Well, I want to hear about you.

EH: And I want to hear about you.

FC: What are you trying to hide?

EH: Nothing! I just want to hear about you.

FC: Well, I'm not telling you a damn thing until you tell me about yourself.

EH: And I'm not telling you anything. Tell me about yourself, dammit!

FC: NO! I'm trying to be interested! Gawd! Why are you being such and @ss?!?!

 

And then she would stab me in the eye with a butter knife.

[outsidethebox]

that was funny LOL

[edgygirl]

hey outsidethebox I also wish there were more threads for older people here that are not solely related to looks/alpha vs beta/etc. I also have so much to learn and I wish we had more threads like this that's why I keep posting them hehe.

 

Thanks for your input. I think you reminded me of something that's always in the back of my head and might be a problem I have. The emasculating thing. I cringe when I hear the word but it's out of guilt as I think I might do it. I know I did it in my 20s and 30s. It doesn't come from a bad place as I like to be Hillary Clinton like to my men… I like to help them progress in life but I think I end up doing it like my mom to my father… in a passive aggressive, non constructive way instead. It's something I should look at. I came a long way lately now that I'm aware I might be doing it and I try to watch for signals and stop it. I am a bit of a control freak - but again, it comes from a good place as I know I'm a good strategists (obviously except for my love life lol). Will do some reading on it.

 

I might add I am a bit too passionate and intense and when I go on a date it's because I already checked many boxes and am usually already quite interested. This might scare people off as they sense it.

 

The avatar is a Blythe doll. Read here for more insight: Blythe dolls: too scary for children, loved by adults | Life and style | guardian.co.uk - Like someone pointed out: "She's so versatile, she can be whatever you want her to be - cute, mysterious, sophisticated or nerdy." I like to think I can incorporate different facets of me in an avatar. The plan was to change Blythe dolls constantly according to my mood. They can be quite artistic and modern, so it's not like a girl playing with a Barbie or so. I was never into dolls as a child btw.

 

As per the dating in my former culture: tropical country, warm people. You go out with friends, parties, etc, and you always end up meeting people. The common thing is if you like someone, you might end up kissing them the same night, exchange info and meet again… if things evolve you have a bf. It's simpler… not much drama like here with all the dating process.

 

I hope both of us get more insights. I love the one from EasyHeart above! haha.

[charlietheginger]

Im 35 i look for

 

Compatibility

Intrest

Kindness

Authentic being urself

flowing conversation

No kids

Mentally stable

White eyes "yellow usually means heavy drinker"

Smell " don't date smokers"

As for attractiveness average is fine

[edgygirl]

I think of first dates kind of like first job interviews: they are fact-finding missions.

 

Hilarious. I think you guys should arrange a date! But w/o the butter knife!

 

I always thought if I dated older guys it would be more serious but they seem as aloof as some younger ones (it really surprises me) with the addition that I can't seem to read them and what the deal is. Maybe it's the city I'm in. Maybe it's a GIGS issue to due with metropolis or I just had back luck. Maybe I'm a weirdo and don't know it yet lol.

 

I love your comment about the difference being someone to be with instead of someone to do stuff with.

 

I'll keep the fact finding mission thing in mind on my next dates!

 

But... don't you guys think that it's hard to become interested in someone who doesn't reveal much? I usually lose interest if I'm trying to extract milk from a stone as we say back home, hehe. That's also why I don't feel comfortable being too mysterious. I think people will lose interest if I withhold all the interesting facts about me and my life. What's there to be interested in if they don't get to know me? Is it about dripping these facs veryyyy slowly over weeks? ahhh.

[edgygirl]

Im 35 i look for

 

Compatibility

Intrest

Kindness

Authentic being urself

flowing conversation

No kids

Mentally stable

White eyes "yellow usually means heavy drinker"

Smell " don't date smokers"

As for attractiveness average is fine

 

Same here! Why is it so hard to find?

[EasyHeart]

But... don't you guys think that it's hard to become interested in someone who doesn't reveal much? I usually lose interest if I'm trying to extract milk from a stone as we say back home, hehe. That's also why I don't feel comfortable being too mysterious. I think people will lose interest if I withhold all the interesting facts about me and my life. What's there to be interested in if they don't get to know me? Is it about dripping these facs veryyyy slowly over weeks? ahhh.

It depends on what you're talking about.

 

Since we're dating, I think that relationship/marriage/dating type stuff should all be on the table. For me, one of the things that women always want to know is "Why is he still single?", so I think it's fair to tell them lots of stuff about my previous lovelife. Since she's deciding whether to date me, that's relevant on a first date.

 

But if she starts asking me all sorts of questions about my family, my past, my work, my friends, etc. then i shut down. That kind of stuff I consider too private for a first date. I'm especially careful about telling them too much about my work, which seems to annoy some women. But the kind of work I do involves a lot of confidences and I literally can't talk about 99% of the work I do. ("Can't" meaning "ethically and legally prohibited from")

 

So if you ask me why I broke up with my last girlfriend, I'll tell you in exquisite detail; if you ask me about my mom or what I did at work today, I'll give you a stinkeye.

[edgygirl]

Oh wow I'm glad I asked. I thought men would get more annoyed by talking about exes and love life (don't they always say don't mention exes on a first date?) than talking about work and family.

 

Man, apparently I have no clue about dating's kosher subjects... I think we need a dating subjects corner here from men over 40!

 

Wait, "ethically and legally"... are you James Bond mentioned above?

[EasyHeart]

Oh wow I'm glad I asked. I thought men would get more annoyed by talking about exes and love life (don't they always say don't mention exes on a first date?) than talking about work and family.

 

Man, apparently I have no clue about dating's kosher subjects... I think we need a dating subjects corner here from men over 40!

Obviously, people are all different, so it's going to depend on the man, but that's the way I look at it. And if a guy (or a woman) is hesitant to talk about their past relationships, that tells me that they are embarrassed about something or have something to hide.

 

That's why I think of it as a job interview. When you have a job interview, you know that certain questions are going to be asked and you always have an answer ready for them. "Why did you break up with your last girlfriend?" is equivalent to "Why did you leave your last job?" Everyone knows it's coming and it's completely reasonable for the other person to want to know.

 

Wait, "ethically and legally"... are you James Bond mentioned above?

I can neither admit or deny anything.

[edgygirl]

When you have a job interview, you know that certain questions are going to be asked and you always have an answer ready for them.

 

Right... guess I'll have to do some preparation for these job int... err dates. I never thought about it this way but seems like a good point. It would be great to hear more insights from you and others on what's kosher to talk about with guys around your age on first dates.

 

I can neither admit or deny anything.

 

So I won't admit or deny whether I'm Mata Hari either!

[outsidethebox]

I agree. I don't understand this and I need to. Most of what I've read in past was that it was not a good thing to talk about past relationships. Ok, certainly not to complain about it, rehash it, etc. There's a certain amount of biography but is delving into why relationships ended (from one point of view anyway) really what getting to know each other is all about?

 

I can understand that it can save a lot of time in some cases where the other person identifies with the reasons and says I wouldn't stick around either. But I doubt anything would be presented that clearly.

 

I also can understand not going into depth about current life to a stranger at first meeting, so what is first date? Determining if one can carry on a pleasant conversation about nothing of importance? Seeing whether there is a spark?

 

I don't know. But I do understand a biographical grilling isn't pleasant for anyone.

[salparadise]

I want to understand how mature 40-50s yo guys who want to date within their age group see dating.

 

 

For starters, it's a not accurate to think that a man being a few years older turns him into an different species, or that there is some magic formulae that reveals the mysteries of attraction for all such men. Older men are regular people who've had more experience living. There is still a huge amount of diversity within the group, and each one is as much an individual as when they (we) were younger. For many, those extra years of experience will include a marriage and divorce, perhaps grown children (or almost grown), and a more evolved outlook or world view. I'll highlight a few differences based on how I feel and changes I've gone through.

 

First is authenticity- I have no interest whatsoever in spending time with a woman who is acting a certain way based on what she perceives will be appealing. So just be who you are; that will be a lot easier and takes the pressure off. On a first date explore areas of common interest, try to understand each other's style of humor, take turns telling anecdotes or short stories that have some relevance to something (not totally random). Be enthusiastic but not silly or flighty.

 

Values- On a first date I will be looking for indications that our values are compatible (or not). You don't need to make it an actual topic of discussion, just allow it to come through in the conversation. The big ones are political disposition, conservative or liberal; integrity, honesty and openness; responsibility, etc.

 

Awareness- I will be interested in how self-aware a person is, as well as general awareness of people, relationship skills, social proficiency, healthy boundaries, etc. I will be particularly interested in knowing if a woman has close female friends because I've found that to be a good indicator of her being socially adept and well-balanced. If she has no close female friends but relies on ex-lovers and friend-zoned would be suitors... next.

 

Sexuality- We are interested in sexuality but it's not just about getting laid. (This is anecdotal, my perspective of course.) We're looking for a more spiritual kind of sexuality. We've had enough life experience to realize that fulfillment lies well beyond the merely physical act, even when there is compatibility in that regard. So we'll be looking for indications of that level of awareness, but not overt discussion of such. We aren't hung up on how quickly it's going to happen, but we also aren't interested in waiting six months. So perhaps a subtle reference to sexuality would be appropriate to assure him that the potential is there, not so direct that it might seem too forward, and only if the chemistry seems to be there in the first place.

 

Ability to be happy, contented- I've heard it said (John Gray I believe) that a man's true desire is to make his woman happy, and I think that probably true. It's high on the list of desires for sure. So we'd be looking for signs that this is a woman who can be pleased with what we can offer, and not someone who has pie-in-the-sky notions, or who will be continually setting the bar higher and higher to point it produces anxiety and discontentment.

 

That's it for now... just one guy's ideas about what a really good first date might include. Again, I want to emphasize that much of this should not be discussed overtly, at least not on a first date, but will come through in your way of being when you are being authentic. Actually, I'd be interested in the ladies' reaction to these points.

[edgygirl]

salparadise, all excellent points, thank you so much.

 

The last one, woman's ability to be happy with what a man can provide, is something I haven't thought about from a male perspective and will certainly keep in mind from now on.

 

I am not sure though how to get cues on sexual compatibility on a first date though, without it being an overt discussion tbh.

[salparadise]

salparadise, all excellent points, thank you so much.

 

The last one, woman's ability to be happy with what a man can provide, is something I haven't thought about from a male perspective and will certainly keep in mind from now on.

 

I am not sure though how to get cues on sexual compatibility on a first date though, without it being an overt discussion tbh.

 

I was thinking more in terms of giving clues (to the man), and I don't think it's possible to give or receive very specific information without a direct conversation, and that's probably not a first date conversation. Ultimately the only way to really know is see how it develops as the relationship progresses. But just to give one example, perhaps you are discussing movies and you might allude to certain characters having had a truly spiritual kind of sexuality that's rarely seen in movies. That indicates that you at least have the awareness that it exists on many levels and may aspire to higher levels yourself, without overtly talking about sex. Another thing you can do, assuming you're feeling it in the moment, is to touch his hand or arm and make eye contact at the same moment... this would show that you have the ability to connect and aren't afraid to get into his personal space. And if there's a kiss at the end of the date, make it appropriately sensual.

 

As a man, it's just nice to have some little indication that the potential is there, that you're not courting someone who is incapable or lacks awareness in this regard. The reason being that we know we must invest considerable time and emotion to actually get there, so it helps to believe it's not likely to be a dead end.

[EasyHeart]

It's true, though. Everyone knows that 40 year old women are gullible and naive. The only reason a 50 year old guy would ever date a 40 year old woman is to exploit her innocence.