"The End of Courtship" - The New York Times affirms "hang out" is the new "date".

January 12, 2013

I suppose so, though in all situations it's not like we were friends for years or even months before we decided we wanted to be in a relationship. Usually we met, started hanging out for a couple of weeks, and then we decided we wanted to be a couple. Usually the 'decision' happened when the guy would do something like hold my hand, or kiss me, or something.

As for me If I was in a relationship with everyone I've kissed then I've been in allot more relationships than I think.

January 12, 2013

As for me If I was in a relationship with everyone I've kissed then I've been in allot more relationships than I think.

Haha, I get ya. It's just that the types of guys I tend to like are the types that won't get intimate with a girl unless it's determined that it's a relationship (or after the kiss it will turn into a relationship). Not that I think a guy that has ONS or anything like that is unattractive, it just so happens that I've never dated a guy like that yet.

January 12, 2013

Haha, I get ya. It's just that the types of guys I tend to like are the types that won't get intimate with a girl unless it's determined that it's a relationship (or after the kiss it will turn into a relationship). Not that I think a guy that has ONS or anything like that is unattractive, it just so happens that I've never dated a guy like that yet.

I've only had one ONS. But, I've kissed plenty of people in the course of the pre relationship dating. Different strokes for different folks.

January 12, 2013

I love the era we're currently in and expect shortly--within the next 5-10 years, we'll hit another free love phase similar to the 70s, where people are just banging with no strings attached and people are less sexually reserved.

For a developed, westernized nation, the US is extremely repressed sexually. Strange because it's 2013 and in the 70s, they were more liberal sexually.

January 12, 2013

For a developed, westernized nation, the US is extremely repressed sexually. Strange because it's 2013 and in the 70s, they were more liberal sexually.

No kidding. My extended family always thought I was a 'rebel' growing up because I wasn't ashamed of sexuality or talking about it or anything. I remember when I was in college, I was 19 and going on a trip with my boyfriend at the time. My extended family called my dad furious that he was 'letting me go on this trip and staying in the same room with a guy'. My dad just laughed at them and basically told them 'if you think they aren't already doing anything in the dorms, you're idiots. And she's an adult, she can do whatever the hell she wants'. At least my dad's normal. But the rest of my family... I dunno.

January 12, 2013

Meh, I'm indifferent to it all. I like courtship, being the guy that I am. MrCastle's comment is funny because I partly agree that it's good on a sexual level, but I sometimes wonder how much harder it will be to maintain a monogamous relationship.

January 12, 2013

No kidding. My extended family always thought I was a 'rebel' growing up because I wasn't ashamed of sexuality or talking about it or anything. I remember when I was in college, I was 19 and going on a trip with my boyfriend at the time. My extended family called my dad furious that he was 'letting me go on this trip and staying in the same room with a guy'. My dad just laughed at them and basically told them 'if you think they aren't already doing anything in the dorms, you're idiots. And she's an adult, she can do whatever the hell she wants'. At least my dad's normal. But the rest of my family... I dunno.

Yeah I don't get it. The Hustler store on Sunset Blvd has a slogan on the door that sums up my thoughts perfectly. "Relax, it's just sex!"

I don't get why we're so uptight in this country. There are Japanese game shows where the female contestants have to perform oral sex on their man, spit his semen into a measuring cup, and whoever provides the most semen wins the game. Over here, Janet Jackson gets blasted for a nip slip during the Superbowl halftime show.

Just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying we need a show that has blow job contests after an episode of Wheel of Fortune but damn, it's just sex!

January 12, 2013

@Ruby slippers.

Sure once people are "going out" they go on dates. That's still true.

We are talking about the dating around phase. When your just trying to find somoene to go out with but without officially "dating" as boyfriend and girlfriend with any level of commitment.

Even the first date I go on with a guy is always a real date. I don't care how much it costs - it can be dinner, drinks, a cup of coffee, or just a walk around a fun neighborhood. But it is a DATE. I don't just hang out with guys I'm interested in.

And I don't date around. I date one guy at a time, figure out if I want to spend more time with him, then do or don't.

I don't have any trouble finding men who also want to go on dates. The kind of guys I'm naturally compatible with seem to prefer it.

January 12, 2013

Meh, I'm indifferent to it all. I like courtship, being the guy that I am. MrCastle's comment is funny because I partly agree that it's good on a sexual level, but I sometimes wonder how much harder it will be to maintain a monogamous relationship.

I think the amount of monogamous relationships will be less, but last longer.

Because if casual sex becomes more accepting and mainstream, and becomes the norm, then the only people going into monog relationships will be people who are genuinely in love, not people who are just in relationships so they can have a sex partner, as I would bet a good number people are today. I've had more than a few friends cite "constant flow of sex" as their biggest reason for being in a relationship. Being single, you don't know when your next lay is coming or who it's coming from. Relationships give you a stable sex life. But if there comes a day where it's easier to have sex, people will be in relationships for other reasons.

January 12, 2013

I know! People are so uptight about everything. My mom calls it 'false puritanism' = people complaining about anything sexual but doing some really crazy stuff behind closed doors.

Have you seen some of the European weather forecasts where women take their clothes off during the forecast? Why can't we do that here? Why is everyone SO sheltered about sex? And really, it's not just sex, it's drugs, smoking, drinking, etc. Did you ever watch Disney's Dumbo? In it there's a scene where Dumbo gets drunk. Nowadays, they would never be allowed to show that on television. I'm pretty sure there's also old cartoons where characters smoked, but again, good luck ever showing that on TV ever again.

I just don't get it. I grew up watching cartoons/movies where people/animals smoked, drank, did drugs, got violent but I'm a normal, happy person. My cousins, whose mother kept them from everything, are everything but normal. They're very repressed and harbor some serious issues.

And yet, I'M the rebel =/

January 12, 2013

I love the era we're currently in and expect shortly--within the next 5-10 years, we'll hit another free love phase similar to the 70s, where people are just banging with no strings attached and people are less sexually reserved.

For a developed, westernized nation, the US is extremely repressed sexually. Strange because it's 2013 and in the 70s, they were more liberal sexually.

Having moved here 6 years ago, I feel Americans are EXTREMELY repressed sexually. But not in the way you view it (as in we should be free love like the 70s). For me Americans are even ultra repressed in one on one relationships. It's honestly shocking for someone who comes from abroad.

January 12, 2013

I know! People are so uptight about everything. My mom calls it 'false puritanism' = people complaining about anything sexual but doing some really crazy stuff behind closed doors.

Have you seen some of the European weather forecasts where women take their clothes off during the forecast? Why can't we do that here? Why is everyone SO sheltered about sex? And really, it's not just sex, it's drugs, smoking, drinking, etc. Did you ever watch Disney's Dumbo? In it there's a scene where Dumbo gets drunk. Nowadays, they would never be allowed to show that on television. I'm pretty sure there's also old cartoons where characters smoked, but again, good luck ever showing that on TV ever again.

I just don't get it. I grew up watching cartoons/movies where people/animals smoked, drank, did drugs, got violent but I'm a normal, happy person. My cousins, whose mother kept them from everything, are everything but normal. They're very repressed and harbor some serious issues.

And yet, I'M the rebel =/

Yeah! Too much hypocrisy in this country. We're all doing stuff behind closed doors, you just can't talk about it.

They'd rather you believe babies come from the stork than admit it comes from the forbidden act we dare not speak its name.

January 12, 2013

the forbidden act we dare not speak its name.

Sex = Voldemort?

January 12, 2013

Sex = Voldemort?

Don't say that word!

January 12, 2013

Its just another "anti-Feminist" article berating men for no longer having any traditional values to take women out and pay for dinner.

Or maybe men have become poorer and are no longer seen as sole breadwinners, that need to "bribe and purchase" a wife with expensive dinners.

January 12, 2013

I know! People are so uptight about everything. My mom calls it 'false puritanism' = people complaining about anything sexual but doing some really crazy stuff behind closed doors.

Many in the LGBT community have noted that the ones who rail the hardest against us are the ones who are into various other depraved acts. i.e. a televangelist who's sermon is more often about homosexuality will either be caught with another woman or abusing children and such.

I would go as far as to say that in America we aren't even totally comfortable with sex between heterosexual married couples.

Remember when Lucy and Riki had to be in separate beds? Only after she was pregnant on TV, which was advanced for it's time, did they get one bed. We've only been comfortable with that since the early-mid 1970's.

January 13, 2013

Yeah I don't get it. The Hustler store on Sunset Blvd has a slogan on the door that sums up my thoughts perfectly. "Relax, it's just sex!"

I don't get why we're so uptight in this country. There are Japanese game shows where the female contestants have to perform oral sex on their man, spit his semen into a measuring cup, and whoever provides the most semen wins the game. Over here, Janet Jackson gets blasted for a nip slip during the Superbowl halftime show.

Just doesn't make sense. I'm not saying we need a show that has blow job contests after an episode of Wheel of Fortune but damn, it's just sex!

Honestly I feel the exact opposite, I think our culture is just too sexualized, and that's causing issues in our society, but then again some people just need to learn some self-control.

Even virginity is looked down upon especially if you're a male, people automatically assume you must have some deep issues if you aren't out there having sex all the time like a "normal" person. Even my own parents think I might have some problems because I'm a virgin. Quite recently there was even a thread here where a woman was complaining that her boyfriend was a virgin before they had sex, and she doesn't know what to do.

As for Japan, hopefully that's not considered normal in Japan, if it is I don't know what to say.

January 13, 2013

Still go on dates and everyone that I know do as well. Every lady i've dated date....not "hang" out. This must be a generational thing because people in my age group late-30s, to mid 40's (and older) still date.

January 13, 2013

I have mixed thoughts about this.

On the one hand, when did people ever really "date"? Most people back in the good old days met through social circle. Usually by the time you took her out on a "real" date, you both knew you liked each other. The attraction and connection really was built up from the "hanging out" you did before your date.

People might have held out for sex later though a few generations ago though.

On the other hand, it astounds me how low women's standards are today in some important ways. Many young women put up with douchey behavior from the guys in their life. I actually blame you women (and not the guys, but you women) for this as you are the gate-keepers of sex. You as a gender are also encouraging callous behavior. Many guys aren't going to want to take a girl they just met on a date if they are suspecting that the guy before her carried her out of the bar the night they met and took her home, and then hooked up with her commitment-free for a few months (which happened to one of the women in the article). Yes, even the guys who would be more relationship-minded.

You'd be astounded how we men can be inspired to rise to the occasion for you women, but that's not going to happen if you set the bar so low.

Some of you might be up in arms over this, but how would you ladies feel "hooking up" with a guy for NSA sex knowing he was taking other girls out for fancy dinners--with or without getting sex from them? No one wants to play the sucker.

Edited January 13, 2013 by Imajerk17

January 13, 2013

I don't think sex is a big deal. I also don't think someone should just give up their bodies to anyone, because I don't trust a majority of people and I don't want to catch any diseases. I don't trust anyone, boy or girl.

Couldn't the amount of indirect exposure to any disease (chlamidya, gonorrhea, syphilis, HIV, HPV, herpes, ect..) snowball in such a sexually promiscuous society, where every partner has likely had multiple partners? Even with condoms, there's still the chance that it can fail, condoms are not 100%, no?

You could have sex with one person who's had sex with dozens of people who've also had sex with dozens of people.. If any one of those people has anything, a large number of people could be at risk for infection, even if it's 1%, you live that lifestyle for long enough and I'm sure the overall risk in one's lifetime depending on how active they'd BE in that sort of society would likely rise to a more respectable %.. Even if it'd still be pretty low, it still means SOMEONE is going to be affected..

January 13, 2013

I have mixed thoughts about this.

On the one hand, when did people ever really "date"? Most people back in the good old days met through social circle. Usually by the time you took her out on a "real" date, you both knew you liked each other. The attraction and connection really was built up from the "hanging out" you did before your date.

People might have held out for sex later though a few generations ago though.

On the other hand, it astounds me how low women's standards are today in some important ways. Many young women put up with douchey behavior from the guys in their life. I actually blame you women (and not the guys, but you women) for this as you are the gate-keepers of sex. You as a gender are also encouraging callous behavior. Many guys aren't going to want to take a girl they just met on a date if they are suspecting that the guy before her carried her out of the bar the night they met and took her home, and then hooked up with her commitment-free for a few months (which happened to one of the women in the article). Yes, even the guys who would be more relationship-minded.

That part of the article really bugged me.

Mainly because I try much harder than the guys who message, "Sup. You doing anything?"

I'd also like to make the effort to plan dates and make sure she has a good time, but it really seems that women don't care about those things anymore.

It just really confuses me on what I should actually be doing.

January 13, 2013

I have mixed thoughts about this.

On the one hand, when did people ever really "date"? Most people back in the good old days met through social circle. Usually by the time you took her out on a "real" date, you both knew you liked each other. The attraction and connection really was built up from the "hanging out" you did before your date.

People might have held out for sex later though a few generations ago though.

On the other hand, it astounds me how low women's standards are today in some important ways. Many young women put up with douchey behavior from the guys in their life. I actually blame you women (and not the guys, but you women) for this as you are the gate-keepers of sex. You as a gender are also encouraging callous behavior. Many guys aren't going to want to take a girl they just met on a date if they are suspecting that the guy before her carried her out of the bar the night they met and took her home, and then hooked up with her commitment-free for a few months (which happened to one of the women in the article). Yes, even the guys who would be more relationship-minded.

You'd be astounded how we men can be inspired to rise to the occasion for you women, but that's not going to happen if you set the bar so low.

Some of you might be up in arms over this, but how would you ladies feel "hooking up" with a guy for NSA sex knowing he was taking other girls out for fancy dinners--with or without getting sex from them? No one wants to play the sucker.

Not quite. A few generations ago more than 2/3 of all Americans lived on farms and in rural communities. The really big cities Chicago, NYC etc at most had hundreds of thousands of people. Within those cities people stayed in their neighborhoods 90% of the time.

This all meant that everyone knew everyone to a much greater extent. The girls on your block were the girls at elementary school, were the girls at high school (if you even stayed in school that long back then). So you did get to know the before puberty and adulthood.

However a few generations ago, turn of the 20th century more Victorian morals prevailed around the world. They made a certain kind of couch just for courting. It was designed so that you did not touch or even have to look at your intended.

Victorian Antiquities and Design: Victorian Parlor : The Tete a Tete

As you sat on one of those things, in the presence of a chaperone no less, you would court.

Sexuality In The Victorian Era

Now the stereotype of Victorian woman is gone from the upper middle class. Before marriage a young girl was brought up to be perfectly innocent and sexually ignorant. The predominate etiology of the age insisted that she have little sexual feeling at all, although family affection and the desire of mother-hood were considered innate. Morally, she was left untested and kept under the watchful eye of her mother in her father’s home. Milton’s Lost Emotion of tried virtue rather than blank virtue would have meant few responsive cards in the hearts of Victorian men looking for an ideal helpmate. Once married the perfect lady did not work but had servants. She was mother only at set times of the day even at set times of the year. She left the heirs in the hands of nannies and governesses. Her social and intellectual growth was confined to the family and close friends. Her status was totally dependent upon the economic positions of her father and then her husband. In her most perfect time, a lady combined total sexual innocence conspicuous consumption, and the worship of the family heart.

The whole thing is an interesting read. One can trace many of our remaining sexual hang ups to the influence of the victorian era on the world.

As for those who think that male virginity was ok in the olden days NO. In the olden days unmarried men were expected to visit prostitutes. While classy unmarried women were supposed to be chaste. Ideally a sexually experienced male would marry a virgin on her wedding nite. (In America at least those prostitutes could, especially out west, become respected members of the community latter in life. As the money they made often founded other businesses and gave life to towns like Wichita and Dodge city.)

January 13, 2013

Still go on dates and everyone that I know do as well. Every lady i've dated date....not "hang" out. This must be a generational thing because people in my age group late-30s, to mid 40's (and older) still date.

I don't know where these people are! I'm in my early-forties and guys say, "Let's hang out.", or "We'll hook up!"

January 13, 2013

Sure once people are "going out" they go on dates. That's still true.

We are talking about the dating around phase. When your just trying to find somoene to go out with but without officially "dating" as boyfriend and girlfriend with any level of commitment.

That's pretty much how I "dated" in hs, back in the early 90s. Until one guy and I really fell for each other, that is. But that happened while dating, not before. When we started "hanging out" (with sexual aspects), it was very casual.

I'll advise my kids to be cautious about sex outside of an exclusive relationship. But I don't think it is a bad thing to experiment with sexuality outside of a emotionally invested relationship. For me, I actually think it was a good thing--experimenting sexually with guys I trusted, but did not want to be my boyfriend. Not such a bad idea for the young, imo.

January 13, 2013

You'd be astounded how we men can be inspired to rise to the occasion for you women, but that's not going to happen if you set the bar so low.

I'm glad you said this.

But I think you should cut us a little slack, too. Modern life can be alienating and lonely, and I think that's a big reason that a lot of people get physical so fast.

Please don't place full responsibility for your own greatness upon the shoulders of women. Take some responsibility for that yourself, too.

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"The End of Courtship" - The New York Times affirms "hang out" is the new "date".

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