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Posted

I do not devalue his wife at every turn. As for one of the posts, someone wrote that he was only living out a teenage romance. Actually, I think that had been me in a way. I was always talking about things we did as kids & pulling out the old letters. "HE" was the one who said "I don't want us then. I want us now." When he spoke of a pastor friend, I asked if he was the one who married him. He said "No, not yet."

 

As much as I thought I gave my father's belonging to another person & it hurts me, I would never call his home or talk to his wife about it. He should just know to do this. Yes, I wanted him to have it. I'd still want him to have it even though he's staying with her. What makes me uncomfortable is only how he didn't say or write "I'm sorry. I want to stay with her. Goodbye."

  • Like 1
Posted

So you don't care if you get the watch back? You just want to talk to him about why he didn't say he was sorry? He is not a mind reader and if someone gave me a gift I wouldn't "just know" to give it back when we broke up. He has moved on and that's why he kept the watch. He is probably not even thinking that you want it back, I wouldn't. If you don't want the watch back just move on and leave him, them alone.

  • Like 3
Posted

Fooled you have got to get over never getting a goodbye.

 

He is where he wants to be.

  • Like 5
Posted
summer Breeze,

You know I think you're great, but the irony in your above post re: a reconciling couple should immediately give something back to the other man/woman, especially if it's of sentimental value...

 

ideally, it would be nice if they did, but really, I would feel no obligation to do so. I'd like to think that I would, but to be honest, I think that I might have either thrown it out or burned it...not to be mean, but because it was a hurtful reminder and her feelings about the item might not have mattered that much to me...

No prob FS. I didn't say it very clearly but I wasn't thinking about the couple sending it back. It's up to the MM in my book. If there's a dday they should have the cajones to go to a post office and return something that is of sentimental value. The gift was to him and no one else so I have no problem with it being returned but I think it should be returned. I know the trauma that hits on a dday and that the BSs mind is everywhere. I don't think you're being mean FS you're giving your viewpoint and that's what this is all about!

 

there's part of me that feels that I'd probably give her feelings the same respect she gave mine, and even if I knew it was important to her, I wouldn't care...after all, the items weren't mine, nor were they hers anymore ( she did, after all, give them away) I had no agreement with her to treat them with any sort of respect and I'd also have been angry

I wouldn't expect you to. I would expect him to. Pretty much what I said above.

 

( that never came up with us, but if it had, I'd like to think I'd have done 'the right thing' and behaved with some dignity and returned any items, but maybe I wouldn't have...I don't like to admit that, as it's pretty nasty, but it;s true)...

 

You've always behaved with dignity FS. I think the other thing to keep in mind is the OW. You had the OW from Hell so she gave you reasons from the outset to not want to give her any goodwill at all.

 

Some responses above in bold.

Posted
Which is exactly the same as the AP's saying they had no agreements nor made vows with the MM's wife so they're not doing anything wrong.

 

Such little respect and obligation is shown to the betrayed, so why expect respect in return?? Especially if MM's wife doesn't know the sentimental value of said objects.

 

I think you're right that the BS doesn't owe the OW/OM anything. The obligation to both the BS and the OW/OM SHOULD come from the WS.

 

Don't need a hundred responses about the WS. I've written a big old should there to make sure I don't get them all. I agree. Should, should, should, should.

Posted

I took stuff back from Mr. Messy that my mom had given him of my father's. I also threw out stuff that he received from the OW without him knowing it. I honestly did not think about whether those things meant anything to her. I didn't say that to be mean..just there is a possibility he no longer has your things.

  • Like 1
Posted
I do not devalue his wife at every turn. As for one of the posts, someone wrote that he was only living out a teenage romance. Actually, I think that had been me in a way. I was always talking about things we did as kids & pulling out the old letters. "HE" was the one who said "I don't want us then. I want us now." When he spoke of a pastor friend, I asked if he was the one who married him. He said "No, not yet."

 

As much as I thought I gave my father's belonging to another person & it hurts me, I would never call his home or talk to his wife about it. He should just know to do this. Yes, I wanted him to have it. I'd still want him to have it even though he's staying with her. What makes me uncomfortable is only how he didn't say or write "I'm sorry. I want to stay with her. Goodbye."

 

How is obsessing about it helping you at all?

Posted

I'd send a trusted male friend to retrieve your item.

 

I understand this. To me, this makes him an even bigger coward. I had a similar situation with a man years ago. A man that I THOUGHT was my best friend. We never had an affair, but our relationship was secret from his wife, because she was crazy jealous.

 

Poof! He disappeared. He lived in a city 2K miles from me, so I couldn't just drive over to his home.

 

I THOUGHT he knew how important this item was to me, but I also thought that he was my true friend.

 

I found out years later that he had tossed it to goodwill or some other donation. He didn't understand "sentiment". I didn't talk to him personally, leaving it to a mutual acquaintance that I had run into at a trade show.

 

If he can throw aside your 20 year friendship - he can cast off an item. Me, I know where EVERYTHING in my house came from. If my husband had an extra watch, I'd want to know where it came from. It would be very hard for him to come up with a story for it. I know our finances, and I know all of his friends.

 

So call up a trusted friend to get in touch with the dude to retrieve this item. And NEVER. I mean NEVER - give something like that of value to anyone ever again. Unless it is to your child or other family relation. EVER.

Posted
How is obsessing about it helping you at all?

 

Let me clarify. How is obsessing about him not saying goodbye helping you at all?

 

I understand about the heirloom. I lost my mom and something of hers was in my ex's safe after I moved out. I'd have flipped out if I hadn't been able to get it back. Though I don't really understand why you gave it to him in the first place if it meant so much to you...

Posted (edited)

 

xMM can chose to share with his spouse whatever he pleases but that in no way should be the concern of the OP, he made it clear the OP isn't part of his life, so why should she worry about how anything she does affects his wife?

 

Hell hath no wrath like a pissed off BS in possession of something dear to the AP. The BS may well chose to return said item in pieces if at all.

 

So I would say the BS matters in this - and very much so.

Edited by jwi71
Damn autocorrect
  • Like 3
Posted
Well, that would be a very foolish mistake for someone to make with me. I'd sue her ass because the possession would never have belonged to her.

 

I find it sort of comical the way so many people think this behavior by a BS is ok but the minute an OW/OM makes even the slightest mention of destruction or vengenece or retaliation they get called a bunny boiler.

 

The betrayed spouse is just that..a betrayed spouse. They have a right to be angry and to vent that anger (within reason). The OW/M has no right to be angry at the BS.

Posted
Well, that would be a very foolish mistake for someone to make with me. I'd sue her ass because the possession would never have belonged to her.

 

 

Really? A lawsuit? Wonder how a jury would decide on something like that, could be interesting!

 

Anyhow after rereading the OPs words, I have to wonder if she really truly cares about this so called item or if it's just a way to contact him so she can get her "goodbye" that she is really missing.

  • Like 4
Posted
I took stuff back from Mr. Messy that my mom had given him of my father's. I also threw out stuff that he received from the OW without him knowing it. I honestly did not think about whether those things meant anything to her. I didn't say that to be mean..just there is a possibility he no longer has your things.

 

The thing is, if his wife stumbled across the watch, asked where he got it and he said that you gave it to him, she could have just pitched it. He may not have told her the sentimental value behind it...that was your dad's.

 

I hope you get it back, though. I understand sentimental value when it comes to stuff like losing a parent.

  • Like 1
Posted
Well, that would be a very foolish mistake for someone to make with me. I'd sue her ass because the possession would never have belonged to her.

 

That is certainly an option but I personally wouldn't like your chances.

 

I find it sort of comical the way so many people think this behavior by a BS is ok but the minute an OW/OM makes even the slightest mention of destruction or vengenece or retaliation they get called a bunny boiler.

 

I think you are confusing the morality of doing something with the opportunity to do something.

 

The BS, should they destroy this hierloom, is clearly morally, ethically and maybe even legally in the wrong.

 

But she has the opportunity.

 

That's my only point - I'm not speaking to the rightness or wrongness of it - just that's possible and thusly of concern.

Posted (edited)

The way I see it, a gift is a gift. Personally, I would send it back if it were me. But once a gift has been given, it's up to the recipient to do as he or she pleases. JMO

 

You gave a sentimental family heirloom to man who is willing to lie to his wife and have an affair with you. You say he would never throw it away. He was willing to throw his marriage away, why would he fell so different about an inanimate object?

Edited by herenow
  • Like 6
Posted

 

Yes, I wanted him to have it. I'd still want him to have it even though he's staying with her. What makes me uncomfortable is only how he didn't say or write "I'm sorry. I want to stay with her. Goodbye."

 

So you would be OK with him keeping the item if he called you to say goodbye. What's really important to you is the fact that he didn't say I'm sorry. So because he didn't act the way you wanted him to, you want the "sentimental" item back. How sad that a goodbye from a MM is more important to you than getting back your father's heirloom.

  • Like 5
Posted
And that was my original point. BECAUSE it could be of concern, she shoudln't even factor into the equation. She has no need to be involved in it, she should be left out of it.

 

I'm totally lost with this - I cant make sense of it.

 

Could you help me a bit?

Posted

OP, what advice do you believe your father would have given you in this instance, should he have still been living? He was the gift-giver and probably knew you better than anyone, and certainly better than us. Any thoughts on that?

  • Like 3
Posted
OP, what advice do you believe your father would have given you in this instance, should he have still been living? He was the gift-giver and probably knew you better than anyone, and certainly better than us. Any thoughts on that?

 

To add to that question, did your father know you were involved with a MM before he passed away? Would he have wanted you to give something so sentimental to a MM in the first place?

 

It would help to understand the dynamic between her, her father and the MM. Maybe the MM and her father knew and liked each other and the item has some sort of meaning to the MM. You never know.

Posted
Sure. I tried to edit it to make more sense. Sometimes I forget words and stuff.

 

People were advising the OP to contact the wife to get it back.

His wife potentially could destroy or damage something that is important to the OP for vindictive purposes.

There's no reason for his wife to be part of this equation at all, the OP isn't attempting to reignite anything, she isn't looking to rebond, she simply wants a material possesion that matters a great deal to her back.

 

Leave the wife out of it, it has nothing to do with the wife.

 

Exchange the property, preferably through a neutral party, which was why I suggested a courier.

 

Did you read the quote from the OP saying that she would be OK with the MM keeping the item if he had said he was sorry and told her goodbye? Sounds like she doesn't really care all that much about the "gift". JMO

  • Like 3
Posted
Did you read the quote from the OP saying that she would be OK with the MM keeping the item if he had said he was sorry and told her goodbye? Sounds like she doesn't really care all that much about the "gift". JMO

 

I think right now she needs to make peace with the fact he didn't say goodbye to her nor help her get closure. Then she needs to make peace with the fact that there's a good chance she won't get that sentimental gift back. When one gives something away, there shouldn't be strings attached. In this case I DO get why she wants it back, it's unsettling but with that said, the bolded part, is the string.

  • Like 1
Posted
Sure. I tried to edit it to make more sense. Sometimes I forget words and stuff.

 

As long as its nothing important like words and stuff ...

:)

 

People were advising the OP to contact the wife to get it back.

His wife potentially could destroy or damage something that is important to the OP for vindictive purposes.

There's no reason for his wife to be part of this equation at all, the OP isn't attempting to reignite anything, she isn't looking to rebond, she simply wants a material possesion that matters a great deal to her back.

 

Leave the wife out of it, it has nothing to do with the wife.

 

Exchange the property, preferably through a neutral party, which was why I suggested a courier.

 

Now I follow you.

Posted

 

She gave that item to someone who she loved, who she cared about and who she thought felt the same about her. By walkin away without a word he showed her that he didn't value her the way she thought. If he had valued her, then she would be content knowing that someone she loved who had once loved her had that momento. Now, to her, it feels like that token, that sentimental THING that is dear to her, may as well be with a stranger.

 

OK, I see your point. But it still makes no sense that a sorry/goodbye would magically make the item less sentimental. He still would have broken his promises to her. They would not be together. And, he would still be married. How does a goodbye change any of the things that didn't happen that made her want to give him the item in the first place?

Posted
Because he would have shown she mattered enough that her feelings were of consequence to him.

He treated her shabbily. He coudl have broken up with her and NOT made her feel that he was never that guy in the first place. There's a difference. It's about respect and not treating her like a cast off.

 

It's no different than a BW thinking that the man that cheated on her is no longer the same man she married.

 

So, we agree then. He didn't treat her the way she wanted to be treated, so now she wants her gift back.

 

BTW its very different than the BW thinking her wayward spouse is no longer the man she married. The OP knew the man she gave the gift to was married and capable of lying to a woman who "thinks" he cares about her. A BW being cheated on is not at all the same thing.

  • Like 3
Posted

LHF;

I hope you get an idea of me well enough to know I don't mean anything in harm and if I do I let the person know ahead of time*

 

So I am writing this sincerely.

 

Just thinking about the statements you have made repeatedly about Not Considering the W and she has Nothing to do with it and Suing and stuff, and I was thinking, again this is just me...

 

"I would hope and wish the same consideration be given another that they gave me"...

 

With that said, I kind of feel that in your situation and with your feelings, it seems a little lopsided. Do you see that at all? I mean with how strongly you feel about the partner of your affection not being a consideration but then you would hope she would consider your feelings should you desire something back in the future knowing she is part of the equation to begin with.

 

If I am mistaken I am wholeheartedly sorry for not understanding*

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