The TRUTH about your A...

[ow9]

So I have recently been going to counseling, after my train wreck of an A with that old, old man. Last night my counselor kept questioning me, and boy, my mind is in a frenzy over all of the thoughts I’m having.

 

Have any of you found out, perhaps months and months after your A ended, the REAL TRUTH?* For example:

 

1)*** My exMM admitted to me that I was his third affair.* My counselor responded with, “No, he has a woman in every city.”* I stood up for him and ask why he would only tell me of two affairs then?* She replied, “Because saying he’s never had an A isn’t believable.* But you wouldn’t sleep with him if you knew he had women everywhere.* So, two seems perfect.”* Hm.

 

2)*** He told me he told his W of our A.* But then went on to say that he consulted with a lawyer AFTER the fact.* No, my exMM would never risk his money like that.* Also, I asked who else in the family knew.* He said his W didn’t tell a single person.* No one knew.* So my counselor goes, “She’s a woman.* She wants to tell everyone. Yeah, he never told her….”

 

3)*** ExMM began NC with the final words, “I’ll contact you in 6-12 months, after I try with my wife and it ultimately fails.* Then, we can be together.”* I truly believe I will never hear from him again.* But, it seems, everyone disagrees with me.* When I asked my counselor if she thought I would hear from him again, given he kind of told me he would call, she said, “yeah, no….he already has another girl…”* Is he really THAT good?!

 

SO many things were brought up last night that have me in borderline shock.* Is it possible, that I was really that naïve, that dumb, for over a year?!

 

Does anyone have anything to add to my list of “truths?”* Or have experiences of their own in finding out what was real?

[woinlove]

I don't know if you have ever cheated on anyone, but I haven't and I'm not a good liar. Also, I've never felt so dependent on anyone that I had to lie about something as fundamental as whether we were exclusive or not in order to get them to stay with me.

 

Clearly, people who cheat can lie and would rather do that than take the risk of having their M end by being honest. If this isn't the way you would behave yourself, it may be difficult to fully understand this behavior. What I learned as an OW, is that someone who does lie in this ongoing way to their spouse has to have some ability in that regard and it is wise not to disregard this ability they have. Best to take it into account.

 

Hopefully, the truth on these details doesn't matter too much to you anymore.

[loredo21]

I have no "truths" yet. only (from what i gather here) that there WERE no truths. Was everything a lie? My biggest thing is in the eyes. I honestly think we all know that *look* that someone gives you. when they love and admire you. I know I have given that *look*. And I could not and have not ever been able to fake that look with just anybody. I don't know how someone can look at you that way and it all be a facade. i just don't get it .

sorry. i guess i have no advice. just thought i'd add.

[jwi71]

So I have recently been going to counseling, after my train wreck of an A with that old, old man. Last night my counselor kept questioning me, and boy, my mind is in a frenzy over all of the thoughts I’m having.

 

Good!

 

An IC should be making your head and world spin!

 

Have any of you found out, perhaps months and months after your A ended, the REAL TRUTH?* For example:

 

You will NEVER have the real truth.

You cannot have it because the people who each own some portion of the truth aren't talking to one another. And you can't believe the MM anyway.

 

You will go crazy seeking the real truth - and I'm not even sure what that is.

 

Instead settle for YOUR truth.

 

1)*** My exMM admitted to me that I was his third affair.* My counselor responded with, “No, he has a woman in every city.”* I stood up for him and ask why he would only tell me of two affairs then?* She replied, “Because saying he’s never had an A isn’t believable.* But you wouldn’t sleep with him if you knew he had women everywhere.* So, two seems perfect.”* Hm.

 

We can't know if it's true but it sure as hell is plausible.

And makes perfect sense. Again, we cannot know the truth because we cannot trust the MM to tell it.

 

I admit to that line of thinking when I was young and dumb. Living in Yamate Intold ever girl I met she was the first and I didn't know much of their culture or language or food. Sigh.

 

2)*** He told me he told his W of our A.* But then went on to say that he consulted with a lawyer AFTER the fact.* No, my exMM would never risk his money like that.* Also, I asked who else in the family knew.* He said his W didn’t tell a single person.* No one knew.* So my counselor goes, “She’s a woman.* She wants to tell everyone. Yeah, he never told her….”

 

Again, plausible. We don't know the truth because the best source of info is not only a proven con-man but benefits from lying. I may be on a theme about trust.

However, he didn't tell. They almost never do.

 

3)*** ExMM began NC with the final words, “I’ll contact you in 6-12 months, after I try with my wife and it ultimately fails.* Then, we can be together.”* I truly believe I will never hear from him again.* But, it seems, everyone disagrees with me.* When I asked my counselor if she thought I would hear from him again, given he kind of told me he would call, she said, “yeah, no….he already has another girl…”* Is he really THAT good?!

 

He got you didn't he. Is he that good? Clearly so. Unless you are ugly and stupid - and you don't strike me as stupid and a player doesn't chase ugly.

(not be snarky- just pointing out the obvious).

 

Maybe he is does and maybe he doesn't have another. The fact remains he put you on the back burner.

 

And don't miss his pompous arrogant ego there either. "I'll contact you" WTF. Like he expects that you'll be waiting around just waiting for the glory of him. Blech.

 

SO many things were brought up last night that have me in borderline shock.* Is it possible, that I was really that naïve, that dumb, for over a year?!

 

Well, in a word, yes.

The only thing to make it worse would be to not learn from it.

And don't best yourself for being dumb and naive. No angels here - did you read how I played in Japan? Yeah, not real pretty huh? But I learned and grew and, once the wild oats were done, I grew.

 

Does anyone have anything to add to my list of “truths?”

 

Yes. It is impossible to lick your elbow.

And if you can, for the love of God call me!

[Silly_Girl]

Your counsellor isn't your MM's wife is she? She seems to know a heck of a lot about him....

[wanting more]

I've learned to accept that everything he said was lie. The entire 3yr A was a lie.

 

Right after d-day I'd try to think of things he'd said to me and think he had to mean it, it had to be true. But at this point none of it matters.

[ow9]

Ok first off, jwi7, you're a blast in a glass.

Secondly... you're all right: there is no truth. It's just that I had THAT moment last night.

Holy. Hell. I'm not angry with the exMM - I'm impressed!

I'm an engineer. I'm hot. I'm half his age. And he was that good that for one year of my life, I not only believed every word he said, but I loved him.

The embarrassment of it all just hit me like a freaking wall. Nice.

[egalew]

I related so much to this post.

 

I believed so much of what my ex-mm said. But by the end, I realized that he was a compulsive liar. He lied about EVERYTHING....oh, the stories he could tell.

 

But the main lies, which you detailed in your posts, are very similar to the ones my ex-mm told me and which I bought into. My ex-mm told me with first wife he never cheated. And with the second wife, there was just one before me. However, when he had the "melt down" at my house a day before he dumped me, he accidentally outed himself as having others.

 

I, too, have drove myself crazy, rehashing in my heads things and told me and wondering if they are true. He told me from day one that he and his wife hadn't had sex for years. This was the one lie that was consistent throughout, so I still question it. Nevertheless, I often wish the ex-wife would contact me, given I would love to compare notes and find out the real truth.

[ow9]

Right?!* I joined LS to see if maybe, just maybe, someone out there had a story like mine.* Um, hi, this is cookie cutter.* It’s ALL the same story.

 

MM is usually older.* Usually wealthy.* Smack talks his wife.* OW says “no,” (well at least I did, six times before giving in). But he loves the chase and OW finally gives in.* You believe him, because he’s a smooth talker, gaslights the hell out of you, and the sex is heightened.* A year later he leaves, because he “has to” work on things with his W, and somehow makes you believe that HE’S the victim in all of this.* About a month of NC and you realize, “I’m an idiot…”

 

There, I just summed up LS in a single paragraph.* You’re welcome :-)

 

My only issue is I feel inordinate amounts of guilt now, and I wrote the BS an apology letter (which I’m assuming with end in cataclysmic failure, I don’t know, we’ll see).

 

I guess the only TRUTH I do know…is that it was all lies….(Oh, that’s almost poetic).

[woinlove]

Right?!* I joined LS to see if maybe, just maybe, someone out there had a story like mine.* Um, hi, this is cookie cutter.* It’s ALL the same story.

 

MM is usually older.* Usually wealthy.* Smack talks his wife.* OW says “no,” (well at least I did, six times before giving in). But he loves the chase and OW finally gives in.* You believe him, because he’s a smooth talker, gaslights the hell out of you, and the sex is heightened.* A year later he leaves, because he “has to” work on things with his W, and somehow makes you believe that HE’S the victim in all of this.* About a month of NC and you realize, “I’m an idiot…”

 

There, I just summed up LS in a single paragraph.* You’re welcome :-)

 

My only issue is I feel inordinate amounts of guilt now, and I wrote the BS an apology letter (which I’m assuming with end in cataclysmic failure, I don’t know, we’ll see).

 

I guess the only TRUTH I do know…is that it was all lies….(Oh, that’s almost poetic).

 

Guilt just means you acted in a way that you feel bad about and you don't want to repeat. Guilt which is accepted and worked through can lead to positive change. You're already in counselling, so you can use this to come out stronger and wiser, treating yourself and others better. As to MM's truth, I think you know enough and more positive will come from focussing on your own feelings and choices and on where and how you want to be. Good luck.

[MissBee]

How does your counselor know if your MM has a woman in every city?

 

In any case: it is possible to have been naive, bamboozled or making yourself believe what you want to believe for over a year.

 

In most affairs the truth is obscured and watered down for many reasons. Some naively believe that there is some rule that because a MM is lying to his BS/family/friends that he has to have one person with whom he is honest and this is the OW. That's frankly not true. In some cases maybe. But more often than not, the OW gets half-truth and omissions,as necessary, just like the BS. Some people need not tell anyone the truth at all, some actually believe their own tales so don't even feel conflicted and some choose to tell maybe their friend the truth about what's happening or an online forum...and not the OW.

 

I think being in an A...one has to at least apply due suspicion and assume that whether it is to "protect your feelings" or their own...in maintaining two lives, which is what most non-exit affairs entail - the living of two lives/maintaining two relationships indefinitely- that some omissions/untruths and maybe bold lies will be told. Of course some MM's lies are minor while others have gone above and beyond where pretty much nothing was true.

[ow9]

I agree with everything you said. Unfortunately you don't realize all of that until the A has ended. Yuck.

I was cleaning out my inbox today and saw I had missed an email from the exMM. Before I deleted this final momento, I read it, because I'm an emotional cutter.

It was nothing but him SCREAMING at me, saying he was leaving his wife. The decision had been made. And the fact that I dare bring it up hurts him.

I literally laughed out loud at my desk. And then got really sad.

NOW I know the truth. Wish I would have then...

[pandorabox]

I would honestly changed your therapist . Sounds like she/he is ex bs and making you feel bad instead of better

[Silly_Girl]

Or she's heard this story so many times that she knows how the script concludes. Some things just aren't rocket science.

 

In my experience a counsellor would NEVER have tell a client 'hidden truths' about a 3rd party.

[Silly_Girl]

I would honestly changed your therapist . Sounds like she/he is ex bs and making you feel bad instead of better

 

Exactly! I would hope the counsellor is working through OP's feelings, and how she came to believe things that may or may not have been true, rather than revelling in what a weasel he is.

[woinlove]

I read the OP as the counsellor getting ow9 to question statements she took on faith from MM but which did not seem plausible. As I said, I think it is good to take a person's known ability to deceive into account. I didn't and I think many people who themselves would have difficulty lying, often don't. In my case, the one lie to me that MM was exposed on, he was exposed by his BW. Most OW don't even talk to the BW, so the chances of him getting found out were extremely low.

 

Maybe ow9 will clarify how the interaction with the counsellor actually went. Some are speculating the counsellor may be a BW, but another possibility is that this person has counselled many MM and learned a thing or two that some OW don't know. The only MM I've seen here who admit to multiple A also admit to lying to the OW. I think serial cheaters often develop a system for handling their compartmentalized lives. I think a counsellor who has an client taking everything on faith from such a person should try to get her to look at other possibilities.

[ow9]

Oh no. Maybe I worded it poorly. She wasn't telling me anything. She was simply playing devil's advocate as I kept standing up for exMM. She made me see that yes, it is possible he lied to me. Which, until that point, I believed every word he said. She was giving me a worst case scenario. And honestly? I really appreciated it. Especially after finding that email from him (I thought I deleted them all). Then it hit me that it was all lies. I felt anger, and relief. And it felt good.

 

I'm staying with my counselor. To me, she's been very helpful.

[woinlove]

Oh no. Maybe I worded it poorly. She wasn't telling me anything. She was simply playing devil's advocate as I kept standing up for exMM. She made me see that yes, it is possible he lied to me. Which, until that point, I believed every word he said. She was giving me a worst case scenario. And honestly? I really appreciated it. Especially after finding that email from him (I thought I deleted them all). Then it hit me that it was all lies. I felt anger, and relief. And it felt good.

 

I'm staying with my counselor. To me, she's been very helpful.

 

I posted before seeing this reply, but that is what I guessed. I do think the chances that everything he told you is true are extremely slim, so close to zero, I would take it as zero. With time you will understand yourself better, come out stronger, and his truth (whatever that may be) won't matter.

[Silly_Girl]

Well that makes me feel much better. The idea that you said one thing and she said, "No, he had this," as if it was a fact did not sit well with me at all. I'm glad that she's been helpful. Counseling should make you think, it should make you question. It didn't sound like that was what had been happening so I'm glad i was wrong.

 

Absolutely. With counselling, although you're guided, it's important conclusions are reached yourself, rather than someone presenting stuff as fact. The whole thing sounded a bit traumatic but if it wasn't - good!

[MissBee]

Oh no. Maybe I worded it poorly. She wasn't telling me anything. She was simply playing devil's advocate as I kept standing up for exMM. She made me see that yes, it is possible he lied to me. Which, until that point, I believed every word he said. She was giving me a worst case scenario. And honestly? I really appreciated it. Especially after finding that email from him (I thought I deleted them all). Then it hit me that it was all lies. I felt anger, and relief. And it felt good.

 

I'm staying with my counselor. To me, she's been very helpful.

 

Thanks for the clarification. It makes sense now.

 

My initial assumption was that it was a devil's advocate scenario in which the counselor was posing alternative possibilities to what you believed to help you think through your situation in ways you might not have before, but then I wasn't quite sure, based on how you said it, if she was actually stating these things as known facts or it was just a strategy to get you to examine it yourself.