salparadise Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 I am pretty well versed in BPD after my last relationship, and own "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and several other books on the topic. I even joined "out of the FOG" when things were going down with my ex. With my ex, I tried to stay as long as I could since we had kids together, but I was totally and completely miserable and an absolute shell of my former self and finally picked myself up, dusted myself off, and filed for divorce. [...] She has a definite fear of abandonment, too. Oh boy... Well then, you have the information and know the pattern well. Isn't it amazing how it's hard to see clearly from the inside looking out even with the information? As hard as it is, you also know that there is really only one solution for you. I'm sorry. I know it's hard. I think the next thing you need to explore is the understanding that the BPD personality (and other cluster Bs) is a magnet for certain other types, and visa versa. You should be interested in understanding that aspect in order to fine tune your people picker. I told my therapist once that I think I can now spot a cluster B from a thousand yards.
darkmoon Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 (edited) she's a spoiled brat? she's influenced by assertion ideas that venting anger is good? (feminism/threapy, that) if she was filmed being angry would she see that she gets absurdly carried away? this highly self-righteous anger, often in middle-class women, is unpleasant, and they don't always use it, depending on the person who has pissed them of (a close family member, say, or friend or boss) suggesting that it is controllable Edited January 11, 2013 by darkmoon
Author WayHuge Posted January 11, 2013 Author Posted January 11, 2013 she's a spoiled brat? she's influenced by assertion ideas that venting anger is good? (feminism/threapy, that) if she was filmed being angry would she see that she gets absurdly carried away? this highly self-righteous anger, often in middle-class women, is unpleasant, and they don't always use it, depending on the person who has pissed them of (a close family member, say, or friend or boss) suggesting that it is controllable Actually, I doubt she would see that she gets carried away. 1
Author WayHuge Posted January 11, 2013 Author Posted January 11, 2013 Well then, you have the information and know the pattern well. Isn't it amazing how it's hard to see clearly from the inside looking out even with the information? As hard as it is, you also know that there is really only one solution for you. I'm sorry. I know it's hard. I think the next thing you need to explore is the understanding that the BPD personality (and other cluster Bs) is a magnet for certain other types, and visa versa. You should be interested in understanding that aspect in order to fine tune your people picker. I told my therapist once that I think I can now spot a cluster B from a thousand yards. It actually all starts to make sense now. Every incident that seemed "off" to me falls in line nicely with BPD. This isn't gonna be fun. I'm guessing I'm in for a major hoover, too.
Author WayHuge Posted January 11, 2013 Author Posted January 11, 2013 . Getting her to see the pattern is not the answer, it's just going to piss her off if you try to tell her any of this is her fault, and even more so if you imply that she has serious issues or is flawed. BPDs are among the most difficult, probably THE most difficult to treat in therapy. The prognosis is not good if this is in fact what she has. Wow, this rings true. She often tells me that psychology is just a bunch of psychobabble. When I tried to tell her that her anger scared me, she said it was my issue. She even shared last night that her ex used to tell her she was crazy and she said she absolutely hates labels. No chance ever of her admitting that she has an issue. (i.e. things are working for her, and if they don't work for me, it's my problem) How could I have not seen this before???
salparadise Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 How could I have not seen this before??? Because they do a damn slick job of turning the tables on you and making you feel like it's your problem, right? You're so busy trying to please, make her happy, foresee and circumvent whatever might cause the next splitting episode that you never step back to think about it any other way.
Divasu Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 It's really hard to say where the issue stems from. But, I'd avoid making blanket conclusions as to whether or not she has BPD. After four years together, there may be some pretty big indicators if it points in that direction. I thought a family member of mine suffered from it at one point (Bipolar or Borderline Personality Disorder), but her doctor advised that if she were either, there would be way more aside from what I described to her doctor and they confirmed she does not in fact have either. Not sure at this juncture what you should do. But if/when something comes up similar to this, where you don't want/feel like doing it, another alternative would be to state 'I don't feel like going and I am not going to go'. You cannot control her response (or anyone else's for that matter), only yours. Good luck.
SJC2008 Posted January 11, 2013 Posted January 11, 2013 Both of you seem on the stubborn side all due respect but I'd like to point out something here: Throughout the whole ordeal she's painting herself as the victim! Has anyone not noticed this?? He was upset over her comments about going to the gym (he claims he wasn't throwing a fit) and he get's ready to go to he gym and SHE gives him silent treatment in the car. They talk a little on the way back. He leaves the next day and to avoid any confrontation he makes sure to kiss her and tell her good bye. Now how does this turn into him storming out of the house? We'll if she's the "victim" it makes sense, even though he claims he didn't storm out of the house. Then she says "You say you're about communicaton xyz". Well if she was she would of told him why she was mad in the car and not told him he should know. If OP is telling the truth it seems like she's the victim and that he's walking on eggshells around her. I could be wrong, it's how I see it though.
charlietheginger Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 Stay away from her. Unless you want to deal with this Kinda crap for the rest of your life. Find a eazy going non temperamental women. Be patient It will happen if not? Do what alot of men do save money Fly to asia and just buy a wife .
Author WayHuge Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Because they do a damn slick job of turning the tables on you and making you feel like it's your problem, right? You're so busy trying to please, make her happy, foresee and circumvent whatever might cause the next splitting episode that you never step back to think about it any other way. Yeah, I definitely noticed some things were off, but wasn't able to connect the dots. I appreciate all your comments and helping me to see my situation from another perspective. Thanks! It's really hard to say where the issue stems from. But, I'd avoid making blanket conclusions as to whether or not she has BPD. After four years together, there may be some pretty big indicators if it points in that direction. I thought a family member of mine suffered from it at one point (Bipolar or Borderline Personality Disorder), but her doctor advised that if she were either, there would be way more aside from what I described to her doctor and they confirmed she does not in fact have either. Not sure at this juncture what you should do. But if/when something comes up similar to this, where you don't want/feel like doing it, another alternative would be to state 'I don't feel like going and I am not going to go'. You cannot control her response (or anyone else's for that matter), only yours. Good luck. I'm not sure what I should do at this point either. She's reluctantly agreed to now work on her anger, but she's spent the last 18 months denying any of this was her issue. We had a conversation a few nights ago with which I am really having a lot of problems involving what I perceive as attempts on her part to ostracize me from friends / family. I don't think she has full blown BPD at all, just some of the traits of a BPD. I don't think she would ever be classified as having BPD. I've yet to see anything I would classify as disassociative behavior, and to the best of my knowledge she doesn't suffer from suicidal thoughts, significant depressive episodes, identity disturbance, etc. She definitely does show splitting, fear of abandonment, chaotic interpersonal relationships, and intense anger. But...we don't live together, so maybe the full effect will only come out once we share a house. Thanks for your well wishes and your comments on how I could have approached this differently. Both of you seem on the stubborn side all due respect but I'd like to point out something here: Throughout the whole ordeal she's painting herself as the victim! Has anyone not noticed this?? He was upset over her comments about going to the gym (he claims he wasn't throwing a fit) and he get's ready to go to he gym and SHE gives him silent treatment in the car. They talk a little on the way back. He leaves the next day and to avoid any confrontation he makes sure to kiss her and tell her good bye. Now how does this turn into him storming out of the house? We'll if she's the "victim" it makes sense, even though he claims he didn't storm out of the house. Then she says "You say you're about communicaton xyz". Well if she was she would of told him why she was mad in the car and not told him he should know. If OP is telling the truth it seems like she's the victim and that he's walking on eggshells around her. I could be wrong, it's how I see it though. I agree that I was being rather stubborn and there were many opportunities for me to diffuse the argument where I didn't step up and try to make peace. Honestly, it's really hard for me to not be stubborn and defensive when we end up in a 3 or 4 day argument over going to the gym and I have a very difficult time seeing how her level of anger fits my transgression(s). As far as my storming out of the house goes: I woke up like I normally do, but really didn't say much to her, since I had no idea what her mood was. I checked my phone for emails / texts and got out of bed and started to dress for work. Typically I will go and shower first before I get dressed, but since I had showered the night before and I woke up a little late, I decided to just get dressed and then pack my lunch and head to work. She stood up and got out of bed, but then when she saw me getting dressed she crawled back into bed with a huff and reset her alarm. I finished dressing and walked over to the bed and said "have a good day" and kissed her on the cheek. She didn't say anything and basically ignored my kiss. I poured myself a cup of coffee, grabbed my gym bag and my overnight bag and headed out to the car. As I was leaving I could see she had turned the lights on in her bedroom. I definitely agree with her having the "victim" mentality. It's exactly how I feel. On Day 4 of the argument (the morning after the email exchange) I sent her a text saying "I love you and I don't want to fight anymore with you, can we find a time to get together today to talk?" I ended up going to her place to talk. After talking about an hour, I held her hand, looked her in the eyes and said: I love you and I'm sorry for letting my frustrations get the best of me about going to the gym. I'm also sorry if I did anything to create the perception that I stormed out in the morning, it certainly wasn't my intent to do that. This was met with a pregnant pause on her part with her averting her eyes. Eventually she exclaimed "What?!?" in a tone that showed she was still very angry. It was quite painful for me actually. All I was hoping for was for some forgiveness for my part in the argument, and I certainly didn't receive it. I still haven't received it to this day, and she hasn't yet given me a sincere apology for her part in the argument. Her entire response throughout this entire argument shows the victim mentality IMHO. I definitely feel like I am walking on eggshells around her, and I'm starting to feel like a prisoner. Edited January 12, 2013 by WayHuge
Divasu Posted January 12, 2013 Posted January 12, 2013 I'm not sure what I should do at this point either. She's reluctantly agreed to now work on her anger, but she's spent the last 18 months denying any of this was her issue. We had a conversation a few nights ago with which I am really having a lot of problems involving some attempts on her part to ostracize me from friends / family. Perhaps she needs to learn to respect and trust you. Perhaps one of the ways she can do that, is by you being your own person. Kind of like why I said, if/when you do not feel like doing something, say so. Because now you're finding yourself having to bend over backwards to appease her. That doesn't mean being a 'd*ck' about it and/or never doing things together as a couple. But if you truly do not feel like doing something, don't do it. She'll either accept your decision, or she won't. Then again, a simple solution on her part, would have been to just leave you alone when you didn't feel like going. I don't think she has full blown BPD at all, just some of the traits of a BPD. I don't think she would ever be classified as having BPD. I've yet to see anything I would classify as disassociative behavior, and to the best of my knowledge she doesn't suffer from suicidal thoughts, significant depressive episodes, identity disturbance, etc. She definitely does show splitting, fear of abandonment, chaotic interpersonal relationships, and intense anger. But...we don't live together, so maybe the full effect will only come out once we share a house. Thanks for your well wishes and your comments on how I could have approached this differently. I think the foundation of 'Fear of Abandonment' is set during childhood and it manifests throughout his/her life. Examples can include panic (phoning frequently if the person they are clinging to is not available right away), emotional blackmail, bouncing from one relationship to the next (ie: short relationships), constant need for reassurance, insecurity/no sense of self. Black and white thinking can be a trait to certain disorders such as OCD, Borderline, Narcissistic, or caused by Depression. It can be a defense mechanism, a coping strategy. It tends to make people more ‘judgmental’. But again, the only person who can properly diagnose her, is a medical professional. Anger is a normal human emotion. 'Intense anger' to the point of 'raging' is when it is extreme. I get 'angry' and 'irritable' when I am sitting in traffic, but so do millions of others. I get extreme anger towards my mother at times, and not that it’s excusable, but there are certain things that have attributed to that. Still, learning to control my anger towards her, is my problem. Marked difference - is your gf in a constant state of 'anger'? Does she get physical with you? Does she rage/self-harm? Or, is it more so in response to something, like a defensive posture. In any event, if it is as bad as you describe, therapy might help her. You're welcome, I hope it helps.
Author WayHuge Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Perhaps she needs to learn to respect and trust you. Perhaps one of the ways she can do that, is by you being your own person. Kind of like why I said, if/when you do not feel like doing something, say so. Because now you're finding yourself having to bend over backwards to appease her. That doesn't mean being a 'd*ck' about it and/or never doing things together as a couple. But if you truly do not feel like doing something, don't do it. She'll either accept your decision, or she won't. Then again, a simple solution on her part, would have been to just leave you alone when you didn't feel like going. I have done this on several occasions. It seems anytime I want to do anything or stand up for my opinions I'm met with her temper and I'm made to feel guilty for daring to have a life outside the one she prescribes for me. Things as simple as getting home from work late (8PM) and telling her I'm not coming over tonight because I just want to get to bed are met with anger and defensiveness. I think the foundation of 'Fear of Abandonment' is set during childhood and it manifests throughout his/her life. Examples can include panic (phoning frequently if the person they are clinging to is not available right away), emotional blackmail, bouncing from one relationship to the next (ie: short relationships), constant need for reassurance, insecurity/no sense of self. Black and white thinking can be a trait to certain disorders such as OCD, Borderline, Narcissistic, or caused by Depression. It can be a defense mechanism, a coping strategy. It tends to make people more ‘judgmental’. But again, the only person who can properly diagnose her, is a medical professional. Anger is a normal human emotion. 'Intense anger' to the point of 'raging' is when it is extreme. I get 'angry' and 'irritable' when I am sitting in traffic, but so do millions of others. I get extreme anger towards my mother at times, and not that it’s excusable, but there are certain things that have attributed to that. Still, learning to control my anger towards her, is my problem. Marked difference - is your gf in a constant state of 'anger'? Does she get physical with you? Does she rage/self-harm? Or, is it more so in response to something, like a defensive posture. In any event, if it is as bad as you describe, therapy might help her. You're welcome, I hope it helps. Sorry to hear about your issues with your mom. I've had similar issues with my mother but have been able to set boundaries with her a let it go thankfully. Her fear of abandonment is absolutely sky high. Looking back, there have been numerous episodes where I have unwittingly triggered her fear of abandonment and am met with her getting very angry at me for days at a time. There have been some episodes that I absolutely could not wrap my head around, but now with the knowledge that she has a fear of abandonment, they are all making sense. I think she is very judgmental. Even today she said some things that I really had a problem with there were related to how my divorce ended. She has a huge problem with my divorce orders and sees it as being very unfair to me. Is it? Possibly, but I've made peace with it and am doing my best to move forward. She is still unable to accept that it is what it is. She is definitely in a near constant state of anger / irritability. Even her kids, who are teens, recognize this. Her older teen daughter recently told her "I get my anger issues from you, mom." I've had some major episodes with the older daughter and she definitely has some issues with her anger, but she recognizes them now and has been taking steps to mitigate them and they have improved. I pointed out to my girlfriend that one of the most significant signs of having anger issues is that when those closest to you make the effort to point it out to you. About a day or two later, my girlfriend showed me her "notes" refuting her kids comments and explaining why she felt her kids thinking she had anger issues was just the kids "making stuff up". She also nearly bursts into anger anytime anyone says or does something that she perceives as putting her down or discounting her beliefs. Issues that should be met with "I'm hurt by what you just said, could you please explain yourself?", are met with an anger response that can go on for days. Edited January 12, 2013 by WayHuge
Author WayHuge Posted January 12, 2013 Author Posted January 12, 2013 (edited) Conversation from this morning: Her: What's wrong? Me: I'm still really struggling with some of the conversations we had last week, and I'm trying to work through it. Her: I am too, but I'm also trying to act normal while I work through it. Me: So am I. Seems I have to defend myself, even when I have huge issues with the way she treats me and I am struggling with some significant aspects of our relationship. At this point I really think I know what I need to do. Looking at it from the 1000 foot level, one of the main reasons I divorced my ex is so that my kids would get to know the real me, and not the shell of a person I had become while I was with her. If I stay in my current relationship, I fear I may end up returning to being a shell of myself again. I also wanted my kids to have some stability at least part of the time. I spent a LOT of money fighting to get as much placement as I could to hopefully give my kids a chance for at least a semblance of a normal life. For me to stay in this current relationship with someone that I know has serious issues would be subjecting my kids to someone that has issues at both their mom's and their dad's homes, something that I promised myself I would never let happen, and completely defeating the reason that I divorced my ex in the first place. Edited January 12, 2013 by WayHuge
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