I messaged him and I feel better

[XKatieX]

Stoic, The post you quoted was the last night he was "on the fence". Where would we be now if I had gone over to see him like he asked me to? But don't worry, nothing I'll need clarification on because I already got it! I told him two days after that I wish I had gone over he said "no, you made the right decision".

 

Anything I needed to tell him has been said. I made sure of that.

 

Sounds like he doesn't know what he wants. You have to maintain strict NC now, if you don't he will just say something else to hurt you and you start the healing process all over again. It gets you absolutely NOWHERE. There is nothing more painful than confusing someones feelings, believe me I know how it feels, I'm going through a similar situation.

 

Eventually the guilt will fade. You will begin to see the true flaws in the relationship, and realize that it wasn't all your fault. The reason why right now it feels like its your fault is because you are the one being rejected, it's natural to feel that way. It's going to take time, but I promise you will not feel guilty forever.

[ScienceGal]

And first laugh of the night goes to NoMoreJerks for the "douche" comment. Thank you for that, seriously

 

He is not a douche, but I do have to refrain from putting him on a pedestal. He isn't perfect, and while I am devastated that all the good things are gone, I am not blind to the negatives. And you're right, in the end it was all about him and what he wasn't getting from me. He lost faith that I could ever be loving enough. He never came back with what he could do to meet me half way. Except when he agreed to get counseling. Between that conversation on Thursday and Saturday morning a switch went off and he was done. He spent the weekend out with friends and changed his mind about me when he realized it was going to take real work to get back what we had, and even more work to make it better.

 

Doesn't make him a bad person for giving up. But, he did give up.

Edited January 17, 2013 by ScienceGal

[ScienceGal]

Wow. I just realized how profound what I pieced together in my previous post is. I didn't go over when he wanted, I insisted we develop a plan to get better rather than fall back into bad habits, and he completely pulls away in two days.

 

He couldn't do it. For whatever reason. I wanted to do it, would've "moved mountains" as Ruby Slippers said someone in love would do. But he couldn't or didn't want to. And, it doesn't even matter why.

 

Wow.

[NoMoreJerks]

He is not a douche, but I do have to refrain from putting him on a pedestal. He isn't perfect, and while I am devastated that all the good things are gone, I am not blind to the negatives. And you're right, in the end it was all about him and what he wasn't getting from me. He lost faith that I could ever be loving enough. He never came back with what he could do to meet me half way. Except when he agreed to get counseling. Between that conversation on Thursday and Saturday morning a switch went off and he was done. He spent the weekend out with friends and changed his mind about me when he realized it was going to take real work to get back what we had, and even more work to make it better.

 

Doesn't make him a bad person for giving up. But, he did give up.

Makes him a selfish and unloving person... lazy, selfish, uncommitted, self-centred, not caring enough to put in any effort, and emotionally unavailable. That makes someone a "bad" person in a relationship. If he was all those things, he should not have strung you along for so long, but he did , because you were satisfying his needs. But at some point, he started feeling like you were expecting more than he was willing to give, and just gave up on this. No, he did not "lose faith." That's an odd way of putting things. He just gave up on a relationship that he never wanted in the first place. He had just stuck around for so long because you had provided for his needs with minimum hassle, for quite some time. But when the going got tough, he threw in the towel, because "he didn't need that sort of stress and hassle."

[moontiger]

S.--hope you are recovering. I know how it hurts.

 

3) Most recent ex: not sure I can accurately reflect right now. I'll have to look at it after sometime.

 

I'd like to just put down some thoughts I had, having read your threads over the last year.

 

I remember you saying, a few weeks after your first breakup with the emotionally unavailable guy, something like

 

"I have to choose between [emotionally unavailable guy who left once] and [still-married guy]."

 

To me as an outside observer, I said to myself "wait a sec; she doesn't 'have' to choose either of these guys. In fact, neither sounds like LTR material. SG seems to get a relationship opportunity every few weeks/months, so why the urgency? She doesn't have to take the first one that comes up and force it to work."

 

I'd say that is a takeaway--not just from this relationship but the one before: The right person is worth waiting some time to meet.

 

Best not to start dating somebody immediately after a breakup, because your judgment can get clouded and you end up overlooking or making excuses for things that are very wrong from the beginning. It's easy to say "I'll get out if things go bad," and even believe it. But after a few months you get emotionally invested, either in the man or even just in making the relationship work. And then you are stuck with all this attachment to someone who has the same exact dealbreaking issues he had when you met him.

 

It's a noble ideal to say "love is always a risk," but that courage is a double-edged sword; it's also a rationalization for getting yourself into a relationship where the guy has major glaring issues from the beginning, and thinking you can fix them.

 

When I look around at most of my friends, they haven't been through as many breakups as I have. They had a couple of partners--and then they got married and stayed married. And I think the difference between them and me was that they looked for men who really were both commitment-minded and able to back that desire up with action. A lot of men *say* they want to be married, and that they want kids. And they do want it, in some abstract sense, and they even believe they want it. But whether they really want it--that you can judge from their actions, not their words. Have they put themselves in a position where they are professionally and financially stable, have they cleared out baggage from previous relationships, etc.? Your ex sounds like he really hadn't done the basic groundwork to build a life or family with anybody. Just looking at you with big earnest eyes and saying "I want to find someone to spend the rest of my life with" doesn't mean much. It's like saying "I want to lose weight," and never going to the gym.

 

In my experience, if you describe a situation to friends and family--or even to anonymous cyberstrangers--e.g. "oh he's still married but it's OK; it's just because he never thought to get a divorce..." and they start giving you funny looks and telling you it's weird, it generally is. Again in my experience, one's own judgment can get clouded because s/he wants so much to find the right person that s/he starts overlooking all kinds of strangeness. It's a trap I've fallen into several times, with disastrous results.

 

1. Wait. 3-4 months absolute minimum. You are worth more than the first random guy who comes along.

 

2. When you meet someone new, consult people you trust. If a lot of them say "stay away," especially people who generally wish you well and want you to meet someone, listen.

 

3. Yes love is a risk--but you can minimize that risk by choosing someone whose mind, body, relationships, professional/personal life, and finances are all healthy and well maintained. It's easier to qualify people in the beginning, before you get attached.

 

4. If you break up once, the odds are against it working out again (there are exceptions.)

 

Just some thoughts, based largely on my own mistakes. Take what resonates, and leave the rest.

[moontiger]

((moontiger))! So glad you're still checking in here once in a while. I wasn't posting as often during my last relationship, but in times of turmoil, of course I am here again! Glad you're still in a happy relationship

 

PS--I married last summer, and it's been happy and totally fine.

 

I finally took my own advice, stopped rebounding into relationship after relationship with guys who were great (and available) in the short-term but didn't have the long-term characteristics of husbands, bending myself over backwards keeping those relationships going long after their expiration date, and ultimately getting dumped again. I took some time off dating, got counseling, and worked on my self-esteem--which was in the toilet after getting multi-dumped.

 

And then after all that, I met a guy who really was the committed, stable, healthy kind. Unlike my previous relationships, it was for the most part easy and smooth. I guess that's how I knew.

[SharkTooth]

Wow. So sorry to hear about the roller coaster ride you've had to endure. Lots of great counseling here. I know it's hard to listen to it but I keep coming back to certain posts that inspire me to help myself. I wish you the best in your recovery.

 

Sorry, but I have to ask, is your ex an alcoholic? He mentioned his drinking a couple times and it would certainly explain some of his behavior. If this is the case, he really has to conquer that demon before he can get on with anything in his life.

[ScienceGal]

Mooontiger, I am still struggling quite a bit, but doing all I can to get through. No contact (finally), staying busy, trying to remain mostly positive.

 

I read your post late last night and it lifted my spirits. I thank you for that, because I haven't had that in the last few days.

 

Emotionally unavailable guy is still in contact with me. Last I saw him was a few months ago. We talked about life, he is at the point where he's looking to settle down, everything is lining up for him and he is very happy with life. He wants a wife, house, and kids. He made it clear he has feelings for me ("love") and still regrets leaving me almost a year ago. I was kind, but made it clear that I had no intention of ending my relationship. I left that night realizing it would be inappropriate for me to be in contact with him anymore. I drove home thinking about how much I wanted my boyfriend to envision such a future with me, and how sad it was to hear someone else propose it.

 

Your message helped because it made me realize that my relationship was a losing battle from day 1, even the red flags were there. Despite knowing my long-term goals, I chose to settle for a short-term option. He adored me, and I adored that he did. We fell in love with each other, and that's when it got messy. He did numerous things that hurt me, things that I kept thinking a high school boy would do (inexperienced). My heart sank as I saw time after time that he wasn't being as true to me as I was to him. I thought, how could someone who loves me be so daft!? And then it hit me, he doesn't "get it". He hasn't been here before or learned the ins and outs of a relationship. I am a fcking guinea pig! With the constant issues, suddenly the short-term wasn't happy anymore and all I could think of were my long term goals waving to me from some far off distance. I grew colder towards him, he tried harder in some respects, but ultimately all connections we had eroded. I always hoped he would surprise me by taking some sort of action to move our relationship forward, but I was seriously deluding myself. He had the words, but he never did have the actions.

 

It didn't work because he was never capable of giving me what I need. He just wasn't, and isn't, at the right point in life. Perhaps it was unfair of me to expect it from him. He did love me, and I can only imagine how it felt constantly failing to meet my expectations and failing to make me truly happy. I'm certain it's left an emotional scar on him. But, I hope it's one that makes him a better partner in the future, and not a bitter one.

 

Perhaps he didn't truly want the same things I do and he just said he did as an attempt to make my happy, or revive our relationship. If he does want them, he needs to stop putting the cart before the horse. His reasoning is that he will work hard and make it happen when he "has a wife and kids". Perhaps that's just an off the cuff position/excuse because he knows he is not even close to being ready. Even if he started planning today, it would be some time. (I would've waited if he actually started planning). His position, if real, is not a realistic one. I envision him waking up in a unfamiliar house with a woman beside him and kids jumping on the bed. The woman turns and says "welcome to you're life, are you ready now?" I love this passage from your post:

 

Just looking at you with big earnest eyes and saying "I want to find someone to spend the rest of my life with" doesn't mean much. It's like saying "I want to lose weight," and never going to the gym.

 

My family doesn't chime in very often about my relationships, but my friends do. And, even a couple of his friends did. What I heard was "he isn't where you're at", "you're so outgoing and he doesn't seem to be", "you're forward thinking and he just wants to live in the moment for himself", "you don't look like you go together" and finally "you'll be better off". No one ever said anything directly negative about him; in fact, there were a lot of positive things. But, even to outsiders, it was clear that our paths were not overlapping well.

 

I will do my best to wait 3-4 months. I need to not let the loneliness eat away at me. I need to lose the romantic notion that there is a relationship will work if only I try hard enough. I need to stop compromising my long-term goals by indulging short-term happiness.

 

I know the rules, I just have to be disciplined enough to follow them.

 

I am SO HAPPY to hear you've married. You dealt with your last separation the right way and moved forward with dignity, wisdom, and patience. I admire you so much and I hope your life continues to be nothing less than wonderful.

 

I can get there too. I will get there too.

Edited January 19, 2013 by ScienceGal

[ScienceGal]

Sorry, but I have to ask, is your ex an alcoholic?

 

He did drink heavily at times, but stopped. He would flail in his sleep after drinking too much and I had a hard time sleeping next to him those nights.We talked about it, he felt horrible, and it never happened again. He started pacing his drinking with mine, and it was never an issue again.

 

And, thank you for the warm wishes.

Edited January 19, 2013 by ScienceGal

[moontiger]

Mooontiger, I am still struggling quite a bit, but doing all I can to get through. No contact (finally), staying busy, trying to remain mostly positive.

 

Chin up, SG. I know how it is and how horrible it is but (as you know) it does pass, eventually. Each of your relationships has sounded like it was better than the last. With each of these experiences you are learning about yourself, about love, and moving ever closer to finding a relationship that lasts. I know those sound like empty words now, but they are true.

 

Emotionally unavailable guy is still in contact with me. Last I saw him was a few months ago. We talked about life, he is at the point where he's looking to settle down, everything is lining up for him and he is very happy with life. He wants a wife, house, and kids. He made it clear he has feelings for me ("love") and still regrets leaving me almost a year ago. I was kind, but made it clear that I had no intention of ending my relationship. I left that night realizing it would be inappropriate for me to be in contact with him anymore. I drove home thinking about how much I wanted my boyfriend to envision such a future with me, and how sad it was to hear someone else propose it.

 

Emotionally Unavailable Guy might be genuine, but I remain very skeptical of somebody who--twice--didn't appreciate you when he was with you, and once the relationship ended and he didn't have you any more, suddenly decided he loved you and wanted to commit. It could genuinely be that his circumstances and outlook on life have changed, but this kind of flip-flopping is also the hallmark of the standard emotionally unavailable guy. If I were betting money, and I had a choice on betting on something new and untested vs. something that I knew had already failed on me twice, I'd probably take the random thing. Past performance isn't always a predictor of future behavior, but what else do we have to go on? Stay clear.

 

Your message helped because it made me realize that my relationship was a losing battle from day 1, even the red flags were there.

 

Yes; I believe that this wasn't a failure of your relationship skills, or anything else...with the right guy (or even a reasonable guy) I think if you handled every conflict exactly the same way, it would all have gone fine. As an outside observer, and one who very much wants to see you in a happy and permanent relationship, if I felt there were any chance that things would work out with this guy I'd have cheered you on from Day 1.

 

But when something is fundamentally wrong from the beginning, like a major incompatibility in values, etc., it just gets more and more wrong as the relationship deepens, and there is no way you can fix it with Band-Aids.

 

As I said, I think perhaps the choice of partners could have been improved on--but once having chosen this guy, it's a great credit to you that you were able to maintain a relationship for a year.

 

I know you think he gave up--but I believe it was not going to work, and it sounds like he was just able to realize and accept your mutual incompatibility a few months before you might have anyway: I don't think you guys were on the same page, or even reading the same book. And marriage, by the way, is just a piece of paper--it doesn't magically solve relationship problems, just seals existing ones in cement. Which is to say that if you had married this guy, I believe it would have gone to hell.

 

I've been in relationships (like with my ex) where we were both emotionally exhausted but I wasn't willing or ready to pull the trigger, partly out of attachment, partly as I was afraid to lose the years and emotions I'd invested, and partly due to fear of dating again. Also being a thirtysomething woman, I had more at stake than my ex; I wanted a family, and losing the time I'd invested in the relationship was a big and scary loss. Whereas my ex didn't care too much about kids--and anyway even if he did, as a man he didn't really have to worry about his age. Long story short--we had problems, and we both knew it, but he was the one to end it--because I didn't have the nerve. And as much as it hurt, a small part of me realized even then that what he did was the best thing to do. I'm guessing your own situation has some parallels to mine.

 

Despite knowing my long-term goals, I chose to settle for a short-term option.

 

*nod* This. You gotta think with a view to the long-term; your future self will thank you. I learned that very late in life.

 

My family doesn't chime in very often about my relationships, but my friends do. And, even a couple of his friends did. What I heard was "he isn't where you're at", "you're so outgoing and he doesn't seem to be", "you're forward thinking and he just wants to live in the moment for himself", "you don't look like you go together" and finally "you'll be better off". No one ever said anything directly negative about him; in fact, there were a lot of positive things. But, even to outsiders, it was clear that our paths were not overlapping well.

 

And that's important: Somebody can be an awesome guy but not an awesome husband. My best friend is an ex from a lifetime ago...we've been friends for 13 years, of which we dated for three years long ago. He's one of the best men I know. But he's not the marrying kind, period. So the lesson I've learned is that it's not enough that you get along with someone. It's not even enough that you are in love with him or he with you. Your core values, life goals, and basic personalities need to align--and you have to be happy with the person, more or less the way he is right now. I don't think you had that combination with this particular ex. But I think you learned a lot.

 

I will do my best to wait 3-4 months. I need to not let the loneliness eat away at me. I need to lose the romantic notion that there is a relationship will work if only I try hard enough. I need to stop compromising my long-term goals by indulging short-term happiness.

 

I do understand loneliness and know how it is. Boy do I understand it.

 

But I think yes, that what you've said is perfect.

 

I can get there too. I will get there too.

 

Thanks for the kind words, SG. And yes absolutely you will find lasting love. It's just a question of some more patience and perseverance, and choosing your boyfriends very carefully and with a view to a long-term future, rather than as a Band-Aid for the loneliness that we have all felt. As I said, sometimes we are too close to our own situation to make accurate judgments about people. I've found it generally useful to run my relationships by friends and family early on...when I met my husband, at the time I was still in counseling and I kept the counselor informed in detail, just to make sure I hadn't picked a guy with waving red flags that were obvious to everyone but me again.

 

Hugs,

MT

Edited January 24, 2013 by moontiger