Cheatin and Faith in God

[Spark1111]

I've seen religion transform the down-trodden in spectacular fashion, yet, more atrocities have been committed in the name of religion than probably anything else.

 

How you view and love GOD, is often how you view and love yourself. So a person who perceives GOD as very judge mental, is probably very rigid in their attitude and actions.

 

A person who believes GOD easily forgives sinners, less so.

 

My problem is when a person chooses to sin, over and over again, and claims GOD will forgive them, well, it just seems like a very easy cop out.

 

The parable in the NEW Testament, where Christ stops the stoning of a prostitute is profound when he states: "Let he without sin cast the first stone."

 

Even he hated hypocrites.

 

But then, after saving her life, he admonishes her "to go and sin NO MORE!"

 

So I do NOT believe forgiveness is a free pass.

 

The sinner must show true remorse and sin no more. anything else is excusing weakness.

 

my H and his fOW were raised devoutly Catholic and had theological discussions often, which somewhat boggles the mind. She liked platitudes and inspirational phrases and used them often in her cards to him.

 

was it before, during or after sex in many different hotel rooms? Is all I wanted to know.

[aed]

People justify their actions by all different kind of authorities:

 

Mexican Cartels killings are influenced by the angel of death (a catholic cult believe)

 

Mafiosi are mostly catholic and believe they are not bad people

 

 

 

People justify their actions because of biological philosophies and skip the part of how betrayed animals react in those situations (killling the offspring and spouse)

 

people justify their actions because men or women are also doing it (I hear this one more from women then men btw).

[Snowflower]

 

my H and his fOW were raised devoutly Catholic and had theological discussions often, which somewhat boggles the mind. She liked platitudes and inspirational phrases and used them often in her cards to him.

 

was it before, during or after sex in many different hotel rooms? Is all I wanted to know.

 

This is so like, eewww, Spark! :sick:

 

I don't get it either. The xOW in my situation was also a little goody two-shoes churchgoer. Even my H couldn't understand her going to church and he is not religious.

 

It made me question my own faith for years.

[NotCamelot]

Boy, this thread hits close to home. Some of you that know my story understand.

 

First......the 10 Commandments: "Thou shall not commit adultery."

 

Can it be any more clear than that?

 

There are the schools of religion that seaparate old and new testaments. However, those basic laws handed down to Moses are still the basis of all religion.

 

If you are a religious person, then you are clearly breaking one of God's laws when you become unfaithful to your spouse. There are no gray areas here. Right and wrong......it really is that simple.

 

I don't believe that any person of religious faith can find any words to justify adultery. I have not heard any yet.

 

In my case, my W's AP presents himself to be highly religious and holds positions in their church as well as teaching kid Sunday school classes. Yet this vile person committed adultery. He is married and he knew for a fact that my W was married......yet he still did it. Making him not only an adulter but a hypocrit as well.

 

(The "Do as I say, not as I do" kind of "christian" really burns my a$$! I am no saint, but at least I practice what I preach.)

 

Now - He may not be in any of those positions at the church anymore as I made the church aware of what he is. I verifiably know he is feeling great humiliation and pain that he was revealed. Many of his own family have turned on him (at least for now).

 

God can forgive him. But karma is a female dog!

[Snowflower]

Boy, this thread hits close to home. Some of you that know my story understand.

 

First......the 10 Commandments: "Thou shall not commit adultery."

 

Can it be any more clear than that?

 

There are the schools of religion that seaparate old and new testaments. However, those basic laws handed down to Moses are still the basis of all religion.

 

If you are a religious person, then you are clearly breaking one of God's laws when you become unfaithful to your spouse. There are no gray areas here. Right and wrong......it really is that simple.

 

I don't believe that any person of religious faith can find any words to justify adultery. I have not heard any yet.

 

In my case, my W's AP presents himself to be highly religious and holds positions in their church as well as teaching kid Sunday school classes. Yet this vile person committed adultery. He is married and he knew for a fact that my W was married......yet he still did it. Making him not only an adulter but a hypocrit as well.

 

(The "Do as I say, not as I do" kind of "christian" really burns my a$$! I am no saint, but at least I practice what I preach.)

 

Now - He may not be in any of those positions at the church anymore as I made the church aware of what he is. I verifiably know he is feeling great humiliation and pain that he was revealed. Many of his own family have turned on him (at least for now).

 

God can forgive him. But karma is a female dog!

 

So, you decided to expose him then? I remember your thread but I thought you decided against doing that.

[standtall]

B

 

There are the schools of religion that seaparate old and new testaments. However, those basic laws handed down to Moses are still the basis of all religion.

 

I

 

ahh..are you sure about that? You might want to do a little more research. Your having a gross conceptual error moment here.

 

I do not believe, that Buddhists, Hindus, nor Muslims believe that Moses's 10 Commandments are the basis of their faith. I can also tell you for a fact that the Judaic Laws are not the basis of faith for Christianity.

 

 

And yes, and God can forgive them and you don't have to.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

So, probably another Sensitive topic but it stems from the "morality" thread from another poster/s.

Now I know that people who cheat can still be or call themselves Christian (or budist or Whatever) but I'm curious as to how one who claims to believe in God can "continue" engaging in an A once the reality of their "situation" faces them.

 

There are many MM/MW who write that they "know" it's wrong & goes against everything they believe in. Yet they continue.

 

There are many OW/OM who write it isn't wrong but claim to or profess believing in God. Yet they continue.

 

Where and how does one reconcile their "continued" cheating & deceiving against their faith?

 

Just wondering*

 

There is a misconception that Christians are more righteous than non-Christians. Sadly this idea is propagated by the bobble-head preachers on TV and Radio (and everyday folks in every community).

 

There is Justification and Sanctification. Justification is the "salvation" piece of Christianity. Sanctification is the process of transformation of the person (righteousness). Many people (even devout Christians) confuse the two or merge the two. It is self-evident that many believers don't put much effort in the Sanctification process of discipleship. It can be described as "they punched their ticket to heaven" and that is good enough. Or as I call it "Fire Insurance" religion.

 

Even the most devote Christians and righteous people are broken (aka sinful) living in a broken world. Even King David committed adultery and killed Bathsheba's husband.

 

Most of these TV/Radio preachers over emphasize the act of sin, and not the condition of sin. Yes, we all choose to sin through action. But we all also live in a condition of sin that we cannot escape. From my perspective Reformed theology places emphasis on both the condition of sin and act of sin, wheres the evangelical/baptist folks place most of the emphasis on the acts of sinning while minimizing the condition of sin (broken world).

 

I personally know of ordained ministers that have succumbed to porn addiction, adultery, and other "big" sins. They know that it is wrong but it is part of the human condition to fail.

 

I find it exceptionally depressing the the self-righteous Christians push more people way from God than drawing others in. The sin of self-righteousness is just as bad as the other "big sins".

 

For me, the dissonance between faith and adultery is not hard to reconcile. Adultery has been around since the beginning of time including the Old Testament.

 

Look at MLK Jr for example. He was a serial cheater.

[NotCamelot]

So, you decided to expose him then? I remember your thread but I thought you decided against doing that.

 

I decided not to do it "disguised". I did it in a way that was not hidden and did not "attack" the church. He had to know it it was me. I felt it was the right thing to do after I found out he was teaching Sunday school to kids.

[Ninja'sHusband]

I've seen religion transform the down-trodden in spectacular fashion, yet, more atrocities have been committed in the name of religion than probably anything else.

 

How you view and love GOD, is often how you view and love yourself. So a person who perceives GOD as very judge mental, is probably very rigid in their attitude and actions.

 

A person who believes GOD easily forgives sinners, less so.

 

My problem is when a person chooses to sin, over and over again, and claims GOD will forgive them, well, it just seems like a very easy cop out.

 

The parable in the NEW Testament, where Christ stops the stoning of a prostitute is profound when he states: "Let he without sin cast the first stone."

 

Even he hated hypocrites.

 

But then, after saving her life, he admonishes her "to go and sin NO MORE!"

 

So I do NOT believe forgiveness is a free pass.

 

The sinner must show true remorse and sin no more. anything else is excusing weakness.

 

my H and his fOW were raised devoutly Catholic and had theological discussions often, which somewhat boggles the mind. She liked platitudes and inspirational phrases and used them often in her cards to him.

 

was it before, during or after sex in many different hotel rooms? Is all I wanted to know.

 

Good post Spark.

 

For me one of the huge concepts Christianity brought was MERCY. Which is actually a good thing, but yeah it's not a free pass. I wish people would view the religious laws as simple moral cause and effect rather than some magical code that will save your soul or not.

 

It's pretty simple, if you betray your spouse it's wrong, but as we've often said here: if you come forward, tell the truth(confession), and take steps to prevent future betrayal(repentance) your spouse will likely forgive you! Not that it doesn't hurt like hell or damage things. The whole point of the merciful God in Christianity is to protect people who are TRULY repentant because at the time I don't think there was much of that kind of thinking going on.

 

Wow, that hit home stronger than I expected just now actually. The concept of confession and repentance makes a LOT of sense to me when thought of that way, but to think you can lie to your spouse, not take steps to fix things...and then get forgiven because you went to a preacher and said a bunch of BS? Hahahahaha :lmao:

[ComingInHot]

So, From the responses so far, I would like to make a statement then have corrections or opinions as felt needed.

 

If one professes to believe in God and His teaching, then by that they are acknowledging that cheating on their spouse is immoral and wrong same as having sex w/a Married person is immoral and wrong .

 

Would there be a strong argument against that at this point?

 

The reason I write this is because there is another post where a person stated "strongly" they Do believe in God but still think it's "fine" to sex it up w/a married person.

 

That is where I get lost as there may be things in the Word that I need explained or that can be interpreted from different angles, but the whole "don't commit Adultry, and don't covet" kind of seem pretty clear cut to me...

[ComingInHot]

Underwater;

I actually had a post this morning but of course my tablet froze...

 

Anyway, I wanted to say how your post was interesting at this particular time as my child's bible verse this week is Matthew chapter Six vs fourteen & fifteen:

 

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

 

As I read your post these verses came to mind... weird right?! Of all the verses in the Bible that these happened to be this week.

 

Please PLEASE know I am NOT trying to tell you anything with this okay? I just made the connection. I realize if I remember right that you live by the Old testement only?*

 

Anyway I just thought it interesting and thought you'd get a kick out of it.

Edited January 10, 2013 by ComingInHot
spelling

[Betrayed&Stayed]

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

 

James sums this up nicely. James 2:13 is exceptionally powerful to me:

 

"For judgement will be without mercy for anyone who has shown no mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment." NRSV

 

I had a "burning bush" experience with this verse when I was at my absolutely lowest of lows.

[Spark1111]

So, From the responses so far, I would like to make a statement then have corrections or opinions as felt needed.

 

If one professes to believe in God and His teaching, then by that they are acknowledging that cheating on their spouse is immoral and wrong same as having sex w/a Married person is immoral and wrong .

 

Would there be a strong argument against that at this point?

 

The reason I write this is because there is another post where a person stated "strongly" they Do believe in God but still think it's "fine" to sex it up w/a married person.

 

That is where I get lost as there may be things in the Word that I need explained or that can be interpreted from different angles, but the whole "don't commit Adultry, and don't covet" kind of seem pretty clear cut to me...

 

Me too!

 

I believe God will forgive the truly repentant, but not the truly self-entitled.

 

So, I Will leave it in HIS hands while I work on my own forgiveness of those who have sinned against me.

 

And since I do not possess God's wisdom and perfect grace, that may take me a very, very, long time.

 

Afterall, I'm only human, but Heaven forbid I be a hypocrite too!

[ComingInHot]

betrayed;

You mean God's judgment right? Cause we can infer all day long on how we "hope" God will judge for "said" actions but truly our hurt aside, ours is to love the person but hate the sin.

 

This doesn't mean we can't be seeming mad at the person/people who hurt us but by letting Go do His job is really, I think a way for Him to help us let go of our hurt.

 

If you meant the verse exactly as it is then yep, I have to believe you are right* God is going to take care of everything, including me... I think knowing that I will be judged one day, helps me to keep "short accounts" w/Him.

[ComingInHot]

spelling ducky... spelling.

[ComingInHot]

duck;

I was was just playing* coming/cumming... heck I don't even know!!

[standtall]

Being that the Last Supper was a Passover Seder you might want to re-think that "fact".

 

And your point about the Last Supper is? How exactly did your statement above help towards the original discussion?

 

Perhaps you can talk to a Christian clergyman to explain to you the difference between Judaism and Christianity,or you can read the Apostle's creed, or you can read the Nicene creed. I am sure that none of them will mention the 10 commandments. Here endeth your lesson.

Edited January 11, 2013 by standtall

[underwater2010]

Underwater;

I actually had a post this morning but of course my tablet froze...

 

Anyway, I wanted to say how your post was interesting at this particular time as my child's bible verse this week is Matthew chapter Six vs fourteen & fifteen:

 

"For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins."

 

As I read your post these verses came to mind... weird right?! Of all the verses in the Bible that these happened to be this week.

 

Please PLEASE know I am NOT trying to tell you anything with this okay? I just made the connection. I realize if I remember right that you live by the Old testement only?*

 

Anyway I just thought it interesting and thought you'd get a kick out of it.

While it seems to be appropriate for this thread, I have a small problem. While I am in the process of forgiving my husband (some would say a little to soon), I do not feel it is my place to forgive the MOW. That is her husbands place. Her sin is against God and her husband. Just as my husand's sin was against our vows and God. She is but a speck of sand on the beach of our marriage.

 

But if we are to look at that statement....would God truly not forgive my sins if I chose not to forgive someone the murdered a family member? Or how about not forgiving a phedophile that molests a child? I guess that is were I have a hard time with religion.

 

And to answer no I do not live by the old testament nor do I live by the new testament. I have searched but not found a religion that will give me the answers I seek. I do believe in a higher power and I believe that he/she is forgiving by nature. That we are put on this earth to rise above basic animal instincts and strive to live a honorable and just life. Will I go to hell for believing that my home is a good place to pray and that I do not need a church to tell me how to do this....maybe.

[ComingInHot]

Underwater;

Well said and well respected

[Spark1111]

While it seems to be appropriate for this thread, I have a small problem. While I am in the process of forgiving my husband (some would say a little to soon), I do not feel it is my place to forgive the MOW. That is her husbands place. Her sin is against God and her husband. Just as my husand's sin was against our vows and God. She is but a speck of sand on the beach of our marriage.

 

But if we are to look at that statement....would God truly not forgive my sins if I chose not to forgive someone the murdered a family member? Or how about not forgiving a phedophile that molests a child? I guess that is were I have a hard time with religion.

 

And to answer no I do not live by the old testament nor do I live by the new testament. I have searched but not found a religion that will give me the answers I seek. I do believe in a higher power and I believe that he/she is forgiving by nature. That we are put on this earth to rise above basic animal instincts and strive to live a honorable and just life. Will I go to hell for believing that my home is a good place to pray and that I do not need a church to tell me how to do this....maybe.

 

Personally? I agree with you.

 

I have met some of the most "Christian" or Godly, or just righteous, good people who have never to rarely stepped inside of a church.

 

And I have met some arrogant, self-righteous, hypocritical, pious church-goers too.

 

As have we all.

[standtall]

Of all the things that a person might want to take pains to exclude from their personal understanding of what it means to be a "Christian," the Ten Commandments is perhaps the most peculiar.

 

Good luck with that though.

 

I don't need luck.. I just read the Bible and try my best to understand. By the way your understanding of what the word "Christian" sounds , then perhaps you should read it too. The word Christian comes from the word Christ..believers and followers of Jesus...who made a new covenant with man....not the old testament and Judaic law...even thought they are part of it, Christianity certainly does not revolve around it, which is the point I have been trying to make here. I stand by all my posts here.

 

Back to the OP...it's all about the sinning, repenting, and forgiveness. When a WS spouse is in their affair, I would think that they are not repenting for what they are doing, and hence subject to God's very harsh judgement, but when they stop and ask for forgiveness, God gives it to them. Whether or not you want to is up to you.