Cheatin and Faith in God

[ComingInHot]

So, probably another Sensitive topic but it stems from the "morality" thread from another poster/s.

Now I know that people who cheat can still be or call themselves Christian (or budist or Whatever) but I'm curious as to how one who claims to believe in God can "continue" engaging in an A once the reality of their "situation" faces them.

 

There are many MM/MW who write that they "know" it's wrong & goes against everything they believe in. Yet they continue.

 

There are many OW/OM who write it isn't wrong but claim to or profess believing in God. Yet they continue.

 

Where and how does one reconcile their "continued" cheating & deceiving against their faith?

 

Just wondering*

[underwater2010]

Good question. But I have learned in life that people that profess their religion the loudest tend to live their lives with the most sin. I guess they think that the religion will cover up the worst traits.

[Realist3]

Good question. But I have learned in life that people that profess their religion the loudest tend to live their lives with the most sin. I guess they think that the religion will cover up the worst traits.

 

My experience is the same as yours. I get hit on pretty frequently and too many times to count it is women who wear their religion on their sleeve, sometimes in sickening fashion. I finally asked a couple of them who tried and failed what was up? "You are so devoutly Christian. Whay would you even think about that?" Both of them said to throw other people and their husbands off their scent.

[ComingInHot]

Underwater;

That is a true statement.

But if you "say" or as you wrote Shout about how riteous you are all while cheating either as M person or AP at some point you have to acknowledge that because of your believe there are specific things that God in fact does condem. On this topic it would be infidelity.

 

So at some point I'd think that you'd have to acknowledge that per your belief and faith what you ( and general you here*) are doing is immoral, deceitful and per your acknowledgment, of your faith, a sin.

 

I guess I think that if you claim something like religion or faith then you have to claim all of it not just the parts that feel good or that give you the authority to harm others.

 

I think I'm saying this right...

[neveragain34]

I'm wondering something on the opposite end of this...how many betrayed spouses STAY with their wondering spouse due to religious reasons?

 

I was a former OW and I spoke to the wife recently to apologize and provide my side of the story, as she wanted answers. Surprisingly, she was very sweet to me and apologetic of her husband's behaviors towards me. She said he was a true narcissist and has cheated 19 times that she knows of. 19!! She said she treats it as a sex addiction and stays with him because of their vows and she loves him. I just don't understand it.

[BetrayedH]

I remember going to my son's first communion shortly after Dday. As I looked down the pew past my adulterous wife to her best friend and her girlfriend (for whom she had cheated on and left her husband to pursue a new lesbian lifestyle), I realized that I was the one going to hell in that group as I'm an agnostic.

 

During my failed reconciliation, my wife loved to point out to me that it wasn't my place to judge her but God's. I pointed out that her vows and her agreement was with me, not with Him. Fortunately for her, all she really had to do was go to confession and, it's all good. Gotta love the Catholics. Wonder if she lied to the priest like she lied to me during the reconciliation.

 

Fortunately for me, I don't really give a sh it about her bullsh it anymore.

[ComingInHot]

Neveragain;

To be honest, for me, my faith was what kept pulling me out of bed in the mornings after I found out. It's what enabled me to smike at my children w/out crying every single time in my own hurt. My faith reminded me that I am Not alone. That I'm Never w/out hope.

 

Then as the blinding painbegan to subside, it was my belief in God and His hand directing me from His Promises to me to my Promises & responsibilities to Him. To be honest, this was the REALLY sucky part because I am required to Forgive. I'm Not to take revenge.

 

This is REALLY hard stuff to do! But I did. And I am SO happy I did.

 

BUT I don't believe in using my faith as a crutch or an excuse NOT to do what is right and healthy. NINETEEN TIMES??!!!?? Uummmmm... No.

 

God has Never said "be a doormat". This MM you speak of is a jackhole and she should dump his a$$, while You should "thank God" you aren't w/him!!

 

I may be a Sister in Christ, but I'm No saint...

[BetrayedH]

I'm wondering something on the opposite end of this...how many betrayed spouses STAY with their wondering spouse due to religious reasons?

 

I was a former OW and I spoke to the wife recently to apologize and provide my side of the story, as she wanted answers. Surprisingly, she was very sweet to me and apologetic of her husband's behaviors towards me. She said he was a true narcissist and has cheated 19 times that she knows of. 19!! She said she treats it as a sex addiction and stays with him because of their vows and she loves him. I just don't understand it.

 

When I exposed my WW's affair to the OM's BW, she eventually decided to stay with him due to her religious beliefs and for the children. She ultimately cut off contact with me because everytime we spoke, I had another piece of bad news to share (broken NC, etc). The last reveal was pretty graphic (for those that remember my wife's blog post) and I think it challenged her so much she just never wanted to hear from me again.

[jwi71]

So, probably another Sensitive topic but it stems from the "morality" thread from another poster/s.

Now I know that people who cheat can still be or call themselves Christian (or budist or Whatever) but I'm curious as to how one who claims to believe in God can "continue" engaging in an A once the reality of their "situation" faces them.

 

There are many MM/MW who write that they "know" it's wrong & goes against everything they believe in. Yet they continue.

 

There are many OW/OM who write it isn't wrong but claim to or profess believing in God. Yet they continue.

 

Where and how does one reconcile their "continued" cheating & deceiving against their faith?

 

Just wondering*

 

Humans have been cherry picking laws and faith ever since we had one or the other.

 

Religion is regarded as true by the believers, false by the philosophers and useful by kings.

- a paraphrase of Seneca

 

It is, simply put...a useful tool whose use depends upon the want or need of the believer.

[Ninja'sHusband]

Wow, well my cousin divorced her cheating husband with the support of her Christian views. She said she "had the biblical out". In Christianity infidelity is a legit reason to divorce I understand.

 

For me religion and basic morality go hand and hand. The spirit is the same thing. You try hard to not divorce because a healthy family and it's support is important to all members. Religion teaches what it teaches because morality makes sense, not the other way around (ie morality makes sense because religion said so). People who abandon reason for religion baffle me...

[ComingInHot]

jwi;

I've definitely had "one of those days" today so I'm probably a little slow tonight. At the risk of sounding "slow", did you answer my questions or one of them?

 

Seriously & sincerely for tonight help me out a little and layman it up for me. (I won't hang out too much longer and promise to be back on my "A game" tomorrow)

 

 

I can't believe I wrote "A game"... cause ya know this forum and "A"... you all know what I meant though right?

 

Oh my geesh, I'll stop talking/writing & just read til I doze off.

[underwater2010]

Underwater;

That is a true statement.

But if you "say" or as you wrote Shout about how riteous you are all while cheating either as M person or AP at some point you have to acknowledge that because of your believe there are specific things that God in fact does condem. On this topic it would be infidelity.

 

So at some point I'd think that you'd have to acknowledge that per your belief and faith what you ( and general you here*) are doing is immoral, deceitful and per your acknowledgment, of your faith, a sin.

 

I guess I think that if you claim something like religion or faith then you have to claim all of it not just the parts that feel good or that give you the authority to harm others.

 

I think I'm saying this right...

And you are correct. To me you either take a religion as a whole or don't take it at all. That is part of the reason I did not convert to my husand's family religion. I was getting very wishy-washy answer to my questions.

 

As far I as I am aware....any Christian based religion revolves around the Ten Commandments. One of which is "You Shall Not Commit Adultery". Two of my other favorites are "You Shall Not Steal" and "You Shall Not Covet". All relate to affairs.

[standtall]

Well underwater, to start, this not correct

 

 

As far I as I am aware....any Christian based religion revolves around the Ten Commandments.

 

 

Christian based religions are based upon the concept that Jesus is the Messiah and that he died for your sins. Christians are living under grace.

 

The 10 commandments to Jewish people are part of God's law. Jewish people live under God's law.

 

The Ten Commandments are part of God's law between God and man that is jointly shared with Judaism and Christianity...Christianity certainly does not revolve around them. Actually, Christianity points out that man is utterly incapable of following any of them..hence Jesus.

 

 

In regards to this,

 

Now I know that people who cheat can still be or call themselves Christian (or budist or Whatever) but I'm curious as to how one who claims to believe in God can "continue" engaging in an A once the reality of their "situation" faces them.

 

it is not a light discussion. To avoid a 20 page theological discussion about the nature of sinning and forgiveness, the best way I can say it is

 

A person who is knowingly sinning against God (adultery for example) without repenting and asking for God's forgiveness, is not in the Spirit during those times, and is not redeemed( a Christian) during that time.

 

Another good description can be found in Romans 7:14-25..aptly described as "the conflict of 2 natures". Basically describing Paul's inner struggle about sinning.

 

Be careful though..there are a lot more sins than the 10 Commandments, and if you commit any of them without repenting, then you too are in sin and God views them all the same. With Christians, it is a constant cycle of sinning, repenting, and forgiveness.

Edited January 10, 2013 by standtall

[underwater2010]

Well then I guess "Grace" allows us to not follow the Commandments and do whatever we please. lol. All kidding aside I guess "revolve" was a strong word. I should have said based upon.

[standtall]

I should have said based upon.

 

And it would still be inaccurate.

 

Christian based religions are based upon the concept that Jesus is the Messiah and that he died for your sins.

 

 

Frozen..perhaps you should view believing in Jesus as a Boolean logic issue...4 possible outcomes...in 2 you're dead anyway with nothingness, in 1 you're screwed, and 1 you're in Heaven,.you have nothing to lose by believing.

[KathyM]

Unfortunately, some Christians only follow their faith when it's convenient for them. Or they pick and choose which parts of the Bible they want to obey based on what they want to do, rather than on what the Bible teaches them. Or they acknowledge they are doing something wrong, but rationalize that it's something they're doing wrong, but the rest of their behavior is fine, so they think it's not so bad. Some people, unfortunately, put their own desires ahead of their faith and obedience. So called "lukewarm Christians", or people who pick up and put back on the shelf their faith as it suits their purposes.

[underwater2010]

I am not going to argue the basis for religion with you....what came first the chicken or the egg? I stand by my statement you cannot profess religious status and have an affair.

 

Even the simple golden rule of "Do to others, as you would have done to you" is not followed by those involved in affairs.

[cocorico]

So, probably another Sensitive topic but it stems from the "morality" thread from another poster/s.

Now I know that people who cheat can still be or call themselves Christian (or budist or Whatever) but I'm curious as to how one who claims to believe in God can "continue" engaging in an A once the reality of their "situation" faces them.

 

There are many MM/MW who write that they "know" it's wrong & goes against everything they believe in. Yet they continue.

 

There are many OW/OM who write it isn't wrong but claim to or profess believing in God. Yet they continue.

 

Where and how does one reconcile their "continued" cheating & deceiving against their faith?

 

Just wondering*

 

CiH it is something I do not understand either. Some Catholic MP resort to infidelity as an alternative to D because "D is a sin", without irony. I also do not understand those who claim to be Christian, which is purportedly big on loving your neighbour, not bearing false witness, not being mean to others etc who hang about these forums being the meanest, nastiest posters around towards those not in their clique. To me, this makes no sense, but then I am not religious partly because religion makes no sense to me.

 

I think that if people's behaviour does not chime with their professed values, whether those or based on religion or whatever else, they will find a way to rationalise their behaviour within the parameters of their professed values, because that is a good deal easier than changing their behaviour or reviewing their professed values.

[waterwoman]

With Christians, it is a constant cycle of sinning, repenting, and forgiveness.

 

Well that is what I always thought too. I was brought up in faith but I have no belief now. But to be in a LTA and be constantly repenting ,seeking forgiveness but not stopping the sinful behaviour simply seems inauthentic to say the least.

 

My SIL is a deeply committed Christian but was in a LTA with a MM for years. She ended it because he wouildn' commit to her not because her relationship was a sin. But hey..... I can't see into her head so who knows how she justified it to herself.

[standtall]

I am not going to argue the basis for religion with you....what came first the chicken or the egg?

 

 

Then don't.... because your wrong about Christianity...educate yourself first about it, then we can debate.

 

I stand by my statement you cannot profess religious status and have an affair.

 

If you bothered to read and understand my first post, then you would have read that I didn't dispute that statement...if you are still in the affair and unrepentant. But, if you don't think that a person can have an affair, repent, ask God for forgiveness, and be forgiven, then you really don't understand the Bible at all. It is pointless to me to debate with a person who knows nothing about Christianity, and thinks that their morals and judgement are better than God's.

 

It is unfortunate that a lot of people believe that just because a person has sinned, then they cannot ever have been a Christian nor can they ever be one again. In that condemnation, they condemn themselves as all of us have sinned...most of us daily... and God views them all the same. I know that is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of the betrayed ones, but if a person can forgive a thief for stealing if he repents and doesn't steal again, then a person can forgive an adulterer if they repent and and doesn't cheat again.

Edited January 10, 2013 by standtall

[ComingInHot]

Coco;

I understand where you are for sure. To be a Christian and follow God's law does mean to "love your neighbor" , be kind, offer forgiveness when sinned against.

 

However, God does Not teach us to be Tolerant of sin. There is a line that was drawn in the Christian faith (probably other faiths too) that seems to be crossed a lot by (and I'm using my Christian faith here*) Christians. We are to love all people as God loves us, then we are called to hate the sin and Not be tolerant of those sins.

 

This is difficult for me sometimes too. How am I supposed to Not be tolerant but love when, per my faith, I know that what this person or people are doing is a sin/s?

 

I understand it as Discernment. I could be wrong on this but I try to separate the person from the sin. That way I can love the person apart from hating (what my teaching) is the sin.

 

It is not for me to judge. That's God's job. It is for me to Obey & follow what the Word teaches me.

 

Admittedly, there are times when something is said or done that creates hurt and anger in me and I lash out at the person Instead of the Sin. That is My bad for the most part.

 

If believing in God, his Son Jesus, His lwas & teaching were easy, more people would do it, I think, for that shot at eternal life in Heaven. If doing the "right" thing were easy, then we'd all, or many of us would rarely choose to do "wrong".

 

To me Infidelity is wrong. To my husband, Infidelity is wrong. He still cheated. He asked for God's forgiveness & received it. I had to forgive him as well. I do not believe he'll cheat again.

 

If he Does... I will forgive him again, BUT I'll divorce his a$$ so qick, his head'll spin*

[underwater2010]

Then don't.... because your wrong about Christianity...educate yourself first about it, then we can debate.

 

 

 

If you bothered to read and understand my first post, then you would have read that I didn't dispute that statement...if you are still in the affair and unrepentant. But, if you don't think that a person can have an affair, repent, ask God for forgiveness, and be forgiven, then you really don't understand the Bible at all. It is pointless to me to debate with a person who knows nothing about Christianity, and thinks that their morals and judgement are better than God's.

 

It is unfortunate that a lot of people believe that just because a person has sinned, then they cannot ever have been a Christian nor can they ever be one again. In that condemnation, they condemn themselves as all of us have sinned...most of us daily... and God views them all the same. I know that is a hard pill to swallow for a lot of the betrayed ones, but if a person can forgive a thief for stealing if he repents and doesn't steal again, then a person can forgive an adulterer if they repent and and doesn't cheat again.

Actually I would like to thank you for the point you brought up in your first post. It caused to me to think and do a little research. It should be said that my expierence has been with the following religions Baptist, Catholic and LDS. From what I can find the use of the Ten Commandments varies per sect of Christianity. I found some place that states the two laws of the new testament are generalizations of the ten commandments and that the basis of the ten commandments are restated in other forms in the new testament.

 

I will agree that Christianity is about forgiveness, but do not believe that gives the sinner a reason to continue the behavior over and over again. I also do not believe that it excuses the behavior once the "find out" that it is wrong. Which it seems we agree upon.

 

That being said I am not professing that my judgement is better than Gods or Jesus. In fact any use of judgement on my part comes from the values that are put forth by the Old and New Testament. If that bothers you, then I do not know what to say.

 

I have forgiven my FWH. I have not forgiven his MOW as she a serial cheater, but again it is not my place to worry about her now or in the afterlife (that falls to God). My FWH would fall into that camp if he was to cheat again.

[jwi71]

jwi;

I've definitely had "one of those days" today so I'm probably a little slow tonight. At the risk of sounding "slow", did you answer my questions or one of them?

 

You only asked one question.

 

Seriously & sincerely for tonight help me out a little and layman it up for me. (I won't hang out too much longer and promise to be back on my "A game" tomorrow)

 

Humans are selectively religious and selectively law-abiding.

It has always been this was way.

 

I am a law abiding man. But I speed. Why? It suits me.

I do not rob banks. That is also illegal nor does it suit me.

Therefore I selectively law abiding.

 

Ditto for religion. Now I am not a religious person but I have noticed that people are selectively so. Cheating is the perfect example - especially as I can remember threads on LS from OW who's MM was a priest. More than one actually.

 

Selectively holy it appears.

 

It has always been this way.

 

People selectively adibe by laws and/or religion when it suits them.

 

The obvious follow up, far outside the scope of LS, is are they truly religious or law abiding if they cherry pick what to follow?

Edited January 10, 2013 by jwi71

[standtall]

You only asked one question.

 

 

 

 

 

The obvious follow up, far outside the scope of LS, is are they truly religious or law abiding if they cherry pick what to follow?

 

You cannot really ever know what is in another person's heart.

 

As far as being selectively holy, I do not think think that most people say. "hey God, I'm going to thumb my nose at you today and go commit adultery..or rob a bank..or whatever. I think most sinners at these times are hiding from God and not talking to him...particularly so with a long sin such as adultery.I believe that people who are engaged in their affairs have that sin between them and God and are not Holy at all, not are they a redeemed Christian. It would suck for them if they were to have to face God during that time for whatever reason...It would not go well for them.

[jwi71]

You cannot really ever know what is in another person's heart.

 

Ain't that the truth.

 

As far as being selectively holy, I do not think think that most people say. "hey God, I'm going to thumb my nose at you today and go commit adultery..or rob a bank..or whatever. I think most sinners at these times are hiding from God and not talking to him...particularly so with a long sin such as adultery.I believe that people who are engaged in their affairs have that sin between them and God and are not Holy at all, not are they a redeemed Christian. It would suck for them if they were to have to face God during that time for whatever reason...It would not go well for them.

 

I think that's exactly what happens.

 

And I want tread carefully so as to not offend ANYONE - and religious discussions can easily turn ...destructive.

 

A) Say a religion holds adultery as wrong.

B) Say our protagonist Joe Bob accepts this religion and knows accepts a) is true

C) this religion has many tenets and commands that are to be obeyed

D) Joe Bob knowingly engages in adultery with a) and b)

 

Is Joe Bob thumbing his nose at God?

 

I would say yes.

 

He knows his religion as dictated by God denounces adultery and he does so anyway.

 

He may follow every other tenet perfectly and to the letter - but in this one case of adultery, he rejects it. He selected to ignore it knowingly and purposefully because it suited him. How is that NOT saying "I understand you command me not to but I really want to so I will""

 

To make it better. What if Joe Bob is the priest?