Trying to feel lovable again after ex created triangle...

[Gala]

First of all, I’ve been reading posts on LS for a couple of months now…and I want to let everyone know how much it has helped me to see others’ experiences -- I feel so much less alone than I would. The dust has settled in my own situation a little, and/but I am still hurting…a lot.

 

I am 39, single, never married. I have a Ph.D., and spent several years making personal and financial sacrifices so that I could fulfill that goal. My plan was to become a professor, but ultimately I decided that the emotional costs were too high – too much work, repression, and denial. I was never quite maladjusted enough for academia…and am more attractive than most who stay in that world. I have done pretty well in the corporate world, and have done other things to try to round out my life. I don’t give my heart easily, and also don’t open my bedroom door too readily these days. I will be among the first to admit that I can be standoffish, and it is something I have really worked on to change. But I think it keeps a lot of people away without my knowing it.

 

Early in the winter I started dating a man, “R,” who was in the final stages of a divorce. I had met him socially months before, when his 20-year marriage was about to end -- though I didn’t know that till later. Like me, R. has a Ph.D. – and in a field close to mine. Unlike me, he was born outside the U.S. and overcame tough economic odds and a violent childhood environment in order to achieve what he has. He and wife raised four kids, the oldest of whom is now in college. He has made a lot of things happen in his life – but has also sabotaged amazing opportunities in ways I can’t even begin to understand. A very good example of this happened in his early 30’s, and involved a contract with a major book publisher for a novel he wrote. He spent the advance, breached the contract, and was locked in a lawsuit with the publisher for several years. When I got to know him, he was trying to come to terms with this tendency…and I think he still is. I didn’t have the obstacles that he did, but I also haven’t had the luxury of slapping good fortune in the face when it visits. I’ve had to work really hard to get where I have, and have had my share of hard knocks.

 

I was resistant to dating R. at first, and he overcame that. We saw each other consistently for a few months, e-mailed almost every day, and talked almost every night. I don’t require this kind of attention, but I found it really endearing. I was infatuated, yet tentative -- especially since there was a lot of baggage from the divorce. Sadly, the longer we dated the more I saw how badly he dealt with conflict or difference. He wanted a lot of control, and when he couldn’t have it he often shut down. This really frustrated me, but I was trying to give the situation time.

 

Then came the film projects, which he undertook in addition to a fulltime job. The first one was small – over in two weeks – but showed me how consuming the work was. It also involved a young (21) and inexperienced actress whom he chose to cast for a feature-length project. There’d be no chance for a relationship amidst managing his children, the fulltime job, and the feature-length film; I also got a very bad vibe about the actress. One way and another, I decided to tell him I needed to let him go. It was very hard on me, but I felt I had no choice.

 

Long story short, R didn’t want to let me go. He had some obsessive fling with the actress that ended in her being fired from the project. He stayed in touch with me, saw me once a couple of months ago, and then spent a few weeks e-mailing me about his preoccupations with me and the actress. I finally couldn’t stand his self-absorption and asked him not to contact me until he could focus on one relationship at a time. That was almost a month ago, and I haven’t heard from him since.

 

I don’t really feel like calling or e-mailing him. Despite his good qualities, I don’t miss the person who pulled all that crap. But I am raw and hurt. I am wondering how I am going to trust my own judgment again. I am wondering what in the world I can do to feel more lovable. I see a therapist, work out, and go to yoga (all of which I’ve done for a while). I have been setting longterm financial goals for myself. I would rather be alone than in a miserable relationship. But I still feel yucky much of the time.

 

I would also appreciate observations from anyone who has divorced – especially men. Many thanks.

[tokyo]

I´m thinking about getting a Ph.D. and I also think I would like to have a family one day. It troubled me before a bit, because I want to work in a lab, so for the next couple of years it´s not a good idea to think about having kids, also I´m single. I´m sort of worried about finding someone, planning my career, I wonder where I will be in the next years, etc. I want to have everything On of my friends who has her Ph.D. already and who is also older than me - I´m 27, she´s maybe 35 - said: "If you don´t want to be alone later, then start dating now. Do something against it." I´d recommend you the same.

 

You don´t need more yoga lessons or more financial security, you have achieved quite a lot already, so I think what you need now is a boyfriend. You probably know that already otherwise you wouldn´t be here in this forum. I once had a landlady who was also single, professor at a university, also in California and she liked going to dances to meet people.

 

Sometimes people appear so independent that nobody thinks they need someone and nobody tries to get closer. So it´s on you to take the initiative.

 

I sometimes feel yucky, too

 

I agree, R didn´t seem to be a good choice.

[Gala]

Thanks for your message. It's weird how the people you meet bring up -- or make more visible -- the issues that one might be facing anyway. Actually, I do need more financial security...grad school left me with big credit card bills, massive student loans, and no savings. I've been able to work on all of this, and I understand much more about financial stability than I did as a poor grad student. But I was laid off twice in 15 months -- so the last few years have been financially challenging. And I try not to beat myself up, but I am so much less established than my friends from undergrad -- who own houses and have big mutual funds.

 

How this ties to R. -- this is the second time that he has risked his financial stability for creative work. He did it once 6 or 7 years ago, and blew a bunch of money without completing the film he wanted to do. He believed it was one of the reasons for his divorce. He is trying to prove to himself that he can complete a film project, and I understand the desire to MAKE THAT THING HAPPEN. But I am living with the results of that desire...I get up to them everyday. (There are other details that are important to my situation, but I won't go into them here). He drives himself much harder than I ever did, and doesn't seem to understand that sometimes you can't just do everything through your own will. He also doesn't understand that when you're hard on yourself you're likely to judge others just as harshly. I'm much easier on myself -- and others -- than I used to be.

 

Back to me, though...I have found myself tying desirability and lovability to my financial status. Rationally, I know there's no connection. But emotionally I struggle with this.

 

I am also trying to figure out what to do differently next time.

 

On grad school -- a huge topic -- some advice. Don't even think about a program unless you're guaranteed funding. It sounds like you're in the sciences, which get more money than the humanities (where I was). The hours that my science friends put in were inhuman, and that's really the nature of the career -- unless you want to work in the private sector afterward. As for me, even in the worst moments of unemployment I haven't regretted leaving the ivory tower.

[tokyo]

Ok, I understand your concerns now. I´m not American, so I wasn´t aware that you guys would have problems paying off the loans later. I will need a scholarship or something, because I´m very sure I will not get any loans and I will definitely not work for free.

 

Having some financial security is definitely an issue. And I think you can handle this a lot better without R. Also in general I think R is not a good choice. He seems very self-absorbed and a relationship with him will not leave very much space for you, it would probably be hot and intense, many highs and, very likely, many downs. He´s hardly managing his own life and you are going to suffer. This thing with the actress also looks quite inappropiate. He really looks like a troublemaker. He may work hard, etc. but don´t they say that genius are usually not the best partner? I wouldn´t want to put my own needs back for someone elses egoism.

 

I´m sure you could find someone else, if you made the decision to let go.

[Gala]

Briefly on the grad school front -- if you wanted to enroll in a U.S. program, you'd need to make sure that there were scholarships/fellowships that cover the tuition for international students. At many institutions (and definitely all the state universities), the foreign student fees are outrageous.

 

R's ex-wife was not an academic -- she had started college but not finished -- so he was used to being "the smart one," and I think this gave him a lot of power over her in some ways. He is also head and shoulders above the rest of his family as far as book learning. He'd somewhat met his match with me, as I have more training than he in areas that mean a lot to him. I also seem to understand business (we both have worked in technology) at levels that he doesn't. Unlike me, he didn't have a lot of close friends in grad school -- he was raising his kids. I am used to being challenged by the people around me in a way that I don't think he is. His kids are all really smart, and I think they will be pretty tough on him once they're all grown up (the youngest is 14). And yes, from what I know they all went through lots of highs and lots of lows, in large part due to R's ambitions and the ways he chose to carry them out. Also interesting is that all 4 of his kids have said that they don't want children of their own. He has taken this to heart, but hasn't understood what to do about it.

 

I told him, when he was first trying to date me, that there wasn't space for me in his life...so the feeling you get about "no room" is very accurate.

 

And yes, I consider it unspeakably insulting to be expected to compete with a 21-year-old struggling actress.

[tokyo]

God, I don´t know what all these men have with younger women. Even highly intelligent men are victims (?) of their biology or maybe they´re just fools. I´ve seen people who were so intelligent, but I´ve seen them say nonsense or behave so foolishly it makes me want to scream. Having a high IQ and having social or emotional competence is often barely related. As I said, look for a man who can stand up to your needs and who respects you. Rationally you know it already, now you just have to get over him emotionally. Shouldn´t be so hard, he was very unromantic.

 

I still think you should learn some new activity like dancing where there are more single men than in your yoga class I suppose. I knew a guy and he said he was the only one man in his yoga class... And I bet with all the competition for him, he would turn into another spoiled jerk

 

My university has started a cooperation with UC Davis, my last resort probably if I can´t find something else, but I don´t really want to go there. I need to finish my diploma thesis first, at the moment I´m working on it, but unfortunately more often than I want I find myself roaming the internet - working at home is such a lonely job....

[tokyo]

I´ve seen people who were so intelligent, but I´ve seen them say nonsense or behave so foolishly it makes me want to scream.

 

Ok, I make mistakes, too I think it´s because they take me by surprise and I don´t understand it, I don´t know...

[Gala]

He isn't just booksmart -- he has street smarts, as well as all the emotional sense that comes with the experience of having raised four kids. But yeah, there were definitely times when I'd wonder if he'd been raised by wolves.

 

Today marks four weeks since I e-mailed R. asking him not to contact me. Up till last night, I felt OK. I think this is one of those barriers I need to break through.

 

As for me...I sometimes feel isolated by my education and training...and probably some of it is my personality. And you were right about the independence thing -- people see you as independent and think you don't need anything or anyone. R. and I both see ourselves as intellectuals, which is one reason we related to each other. On the physical level, we're both pretty attractive people -- and the sex was really hot. But the emotional stuff...the communication issues...the ways he would shut down when something was wrong...ugh.

 

One of my big reminders for myself is that I have one close family member alive -- my mother, and she is 85. My dad died when I was 26, and I know how hard that kind of loss is. When my mother dies, I do not want to be left with some loser. I'd rather be alone.

[tokyo]

It´s certainly a not too bad attitude to say "I´d rather be alone than get stuck with a loser", but it sounds a bit like defiance and too negative. You should say:"I got rid of a loser, now I´ll find a real man."

 

You still have a lot of possibilities to change things in your life, you are single, so you don´t have to worry about anything, you can do what you want to do, so - go ahead

[Gala]

The hard part for me is feeling like someone I'd want to be with could love me. I have a lot of trust issues -- always have...and this was made worse a few years ago. One of the reasons that the financial aspects of graduate school are an issue is that my mother -- about eleven years ago -- had made a verbal promise to help me repay my loans. The first change to this was just a major ratcheting down of the amount she was willing to provide. We were able to agree on an amount, and an interval over which she'd pay parts of it. Then, about three years in, she quit paying. Subsequently, she disavowed any knowledge of having made a commitment.

She'd never done anything this flaky before -- ever -- though I could argue that she sabotaged me in much more subtle ways. She and my father paid for my college education, and gave me most of the things that a child needs. They weren't verbally or physically abusive, and always said they wanted the best for me. When she reneged, I held a very high-stress job that left me very little time or energy for dealing with my emotions...so that didn't happen for a little while.

 

Long story short, I have loans in the high five figures -- as a result of betrayal by my closest living relative. This is why my degree and the sacrifices I made for it are so emotional for me. Besides my tremendous anger at her, I have experienced much shame and confusion at having been deceived. Last fall I had been confronting my emotions about all this, gradually sharing my horrible secret with friends...and R. came into the picture. During such a turbulent time, I would not have expected anyone to drop into my life like that.

 

In short, I am not sure how well-disposed I am to dating. I had started making forays into it about a year and a half ago, and it took a lot for me to put the financial stuff aside. So managing those emotions and getting over a different type of disappointment at the same time is hard.

[overseas2004]

Hi all

 

I just wanted to answer your question about good judgement and bad judgement and how to trust your own judgement. And I will tell a story about me and my judgement if you dont mind.

 

I had a bf four years ago who asked me to marry him after we had been dating for six months. But from the beggining of our relationship my instinct kept telling me something was wrong. This got confirmed one night when he went on vacation to visit his parents (or so he said). He called me and told me it was 3:30 pm. Well the time difference was impossible from where I was at. He was obviously on the West coast. He lied to cover it up. Said something about accidentally setting his watch wrong. BULLSH**. Anyway, later I found out that he was married. Whole bunch of lies. He was a bad man and I barely got rid of him. All along I knew though that something was wrong. I did not trust him. HOwever I decided to ignore that feeling and keep going with him because I loved him (or thought I loved him). Anyway, it all came crashing down on me. he promised me a divorce after I found out about the wife. Of course, that never happened even though I got pregnant (I lost the baby at week 8 .. prbably because I was so distraught).

 

vs.

 

Last night I was waiting for my new boyfriend to come over. I had given him several thousand dollars to buy me a new car. He currently has financial problems that a couple of thousand dollars would help him solve. Anyway, I tried to call him around 8 pm to see if he had left to come over to my house (he lives three hours away). The telephone was switched off. Yeah.... at first I thought that he took my money and ran. But then I started to think about everything that I know about him over the past 3 monts. He's never lied to me. I know people who speak highly of him. So far, everythings been on the up and up. So I put my head on my pillow and safely fell asleep secure in my judgement about him. At 12:30 pm he walked in to my house and handed me the keys to my new car.

 

I got my trust back because I chose someone whom I knew (my instinct told me) that I could trust. I have learned to become attracted to men like my new boyfriend. I have taught myself to find his honesty, integrity, and love for me attractive.

 

Once you really follow your judgement... you too will see that you are fine with trusting it.

[tokyo]

Gala,

 

your situation sounds really tough. I think if everybody else fails there´s still my mum, so things can´t be that bad. But once I was in a situation where my mum also sort of disappointed me, it wasn´t that bad like your situation, but I really thought:"Hey man, what´s going on???". I was in Spain, doing some work for my university in a lab, so I didn´t get paid. I was using my savings and my mum said she would pay my insurance during this time. I stayed there for about two months, in the end it looked like I was running out of money (I just took it with me, it wasn´t that much either) and I went to an ATM to get money and it didn´t work. I tried it a couple of times, it just didn´t work. I called my mum. And she said that had blocked her account, because she had too many debts. So the money for the insurance was taken from my account, which in return got also block, because I didn´t have so much money on it. I was really pissed off. My mum has never been like that, but I guess she had too much trouble of her own. And I know usually she´s not like that, she´s pretty generous. I also know that my mum will not always agree to everything that I do, but that´s her point of view and not mine. I think my mum does not completely my ambitions, it also doesn´t make me feel good, but anyway, I can´t help it. My mum has no clue about the things you have to do in order to keep up with other people.

 

So, why do I tell this. I think your mum maybe is not aware how much helping you pay off your debts means to you. She might be readily offer you one of her kidneys if you needed one, but I don´t really think her look on your debts is the same as yours, neither the importance of her promise maybe. Even though, it is indeed very disappointing if someone doesn´t keep promises

 

I´m just speculating. I´ve never been in such a situation that my mum doesn´t recall having made a promise and I would feel very bad. Did you ever consider that she is sick and really has forgotten her agreement with you?

[Gala]

I don't think my mother's losing her memory -- and certainly not like that. I think she chose to misplace the commitment she'd made because once the reality of it had kicked in she got overwhelmed by it...people do this sometimes. But this is a figure approaching $100,000...

 

It is interesting to hear about your interactions with your mother re. money -- she sounds like mine in that you say she doesn't understand how much things actually cost. My mother has never used my bank account to get money, but she does occasionally ask me for a temporary "loan" for piddling amounts of money. This is enraging, since I have this massive financial burden. And I notice that she gets really stressed out over small amounts of money and can't focus on larger goals. I am trying to address this tendency in myself where I see it...

 

Looping back to romantic relationships -- right after I became a Ph.D. candidate (when I was 28), my mother started pressuring me about "finding someone." This was probl'y the worst time she could have chosen to start doing that...but she totally pushed all my buttons for a while, and it really strained things at that time. And she is such a control freak and perfectionist that I don't share much about my romantic life with her. A few months ago, I did tell her how hard it is for me to feel desirable with my financial state as it is -- and I think that freaked her out. Her generation bought into the whole "rescue-by-a-prince-on-a-white-horse" fantasy, and I don't think she ever felt like she had to have her financial act together to attract a worthy partner.

 

One of my cousins got married last year, and he and his wife have moved out of the San Francisco area so that they could afford a house. They're about to have a baby, and they have that whole thing going on. So they've just moved to a new community, they have this house to renovate and pay for, they're having a child, and they've known each other less than three years. I see this and think, "world of pain comin' on." But every time my mother mentions them I KNOW she is wondering why the hell I can't do the same thing. I have not told her that I have decided I don't want the stress of raising children. She hung her emotional life around my neck like a stone after my dad died, and I'd been dealing with it long before that as well. She views me as this superhuman creature who can do anything, and this makes my life really tough.

[tokyo]

I don´t view the marriage of your cousin with such pessimism. Sometimes you just have to give priority to some things or you´ll never do it and there could be worse problems for your cousin to deal with. No risk, no fun.

 

If your mom is a perfectionist, so are you, I guess. You´re old enough not to let your mom tell you what to do. You have to be careful not to let your mom invade your private sphere, that´s nasty, you´re grown-up and it´s not her business. My mom is the opposite, she´s not worried that I don´t have any boyfriends, but I am! She´d love me to stay till I grow old I´m afraid.

 

Why is your mum so interested that you find someone? Does she want to have grand-children? Are you the only child? I think your mum just wants the best for you, even though she´s making mistakes, but that happens. If she views you as a superhuman creature, she at least thinks you can achieve a lot, maybe more than she could ever do, must be a bit frustrating if your daughter can do so much more than you. Does she has her own life? Or is she just waiting for you to come for a visit? If you could get her something to do she might be less concerned about your life.

[Gala]

You're right -- I am a perfectionist, though I'm less of one that I was during my doctoral program. And life does teach one some patience, both with oneself and others...

 

I am, I'll admit, a little pessimistic about my cousin's situation. I just think it'll be tougher than they understand to take on that much at one time.

 

I think my mother romanticizes about having children. She was 46 when she had me...in some ways this was good, and in other ways less so. In any case, I understand how hard it can be to be a mom. Even in the event of a great husband, mothers tend to end up with more of the parenting work. And in certain ways I've been parenting my mother since my dad died. Literally overnight, I got a lot of the authority that she had invested in him. She was beside herself when he died, and wasn't there for me at all. I was the one making lists of people to call, choosing a casket, not letting the funeral home people boss her around. I was in grad school 500 miles away during this period, and for eight years after, and this gave me distance from her that I really needed. But regardless, I've done enough parenting already. Even when I was a kid, she looked to me for support she didn't get from my dad. I was an only, my mother was, and so was her mother. Too much!!! No more only children, that's for sure!

 

Considering we live in the same town, I don't see her all that often -- on average, once about every two weeks. One of our other cousins remarked a few years ago that if my mother could put a satellite locator on me, she would. I have resisted her efforts to pin me down. She doesn't even know I have a cel phone, and yes, much of my life occurs outside of her awareness. A friend of mine lives with her husband in a house that her mother owns, and it's next door to her mother's house. The mere thought of this terrifies me, especially since my friend's mother is way too interfering for anyone's comfort.

 

My mother does have her own life...and for 85 she's pretty amazing. She has this big dog, and she takes watercolor classes, and several of her neighbors dote on her. But it's hard to be old. Most of her friends from youth have died, and I know she doesn't have as much energy as she used to.

 

This week I got a book about having an overinvolved parent, and boy does it describe my situation.

[tokyo]

Man, I think I´ve never seen anybody run away so much from his mother as you do

I think it would be nice to live next door with my mum, actually it´s something that I really

would like to do. Thus she´s close, but I can still have my own way, but that´s just me.

 

You describe her as being very independent and at the same time as being very dependent

on you. I think she cares for you, but is insecure about your feelings for her maybe. You´re

her soft spot You need to relax a bit, you are running away too much. Stay, spend some time with

your mum, do it on a regular basis, but make it clear you have your own life. It must be

lonely when you´re so old. Not many people get that old, try to enjoy the rest of the

time with her. I´d like my mum to have a nice time with me sometimes, very often I´m too

nasty.