10 commandments of dating for men

January 9, 2013

as much as I look into the OP comments I can't find one where he says that women are less than men... he says they are different... thus equality doesn't work... men are better in some things and women better in others...

A few quotes that strongly, strongly indicate that Nightsky does not in fact view women as equal to men. Not just different (which literally nobody on the thread has argued about), but lesser than. I'm still waiting for him to clarify his stances and show evidence to back up his claims. His words are in italics, my comments are in parentheses.

Also be inclined toward women who support the patriarchy. (i.e. men should avoid women who want to be considered equal in their homes and relationships.)

I believe in a woman's right to vote in a democracy or work a job she is capable. I don't believe in affirmative action for women or special harassment laws or other things like discrimination laws. Let them compete on the same level if they can. (So, men should be able to discriminate against and harass women at work, and if the women can't take it, they should quit?)

Well I don't believe men and women are equal. (Explicitly, not just "different" but "unequal.")

The way they see men and think things like they aren't getting equal pay for equal work. (Why can't we expect equal pay for equal work?)

Men are better at doing the things you'd expect a man to be better at. (Please, tell me what should I expect a man to be better at? OP has been asked this and hasn't answered. So far he's only said a woman should be good at housekeeping, cooking, and raising her children. What are men supposed to be better at?)

I mean I guess you could change and see the light. But with your attitude it's pretty clear why I avoid your type. (Condescending much?)

I want to be the dominant one in the relationship. I want to be the man. (Again, men are the dominant ones, implying that women are not equal.)

That kind of guy you link too is the type of guy who would be willing to date a girl like you. One of the reasons he has done so bad with women is he is a timid man who doesn't chase the right kind of girl. (Women who do want to be considered equals deserve a man who nobody wants, and bitterly rails against women in his thread.)

Finally, an older post of mine, included for clarity, and his response to it:

Originally Posted by AMusing:

I'm all for women choosing to stay at home with their kids, if they so desire. But, would you really want to marry a man who considers you "lesser" than him? Who dismisses your accomplishments as secondary to his own? Or would you rather be with a man who respects you and is grateful for your work building your family?

Nightsky's response:

Why don't you leave and stop trying to infect her with your diseased LEFTIST mind haha. (Do you think anything I said in that post that you would describe as diseased or unhealthy, or even particularly progressive? He describes this viewpoint as "sick" or "diseased" several times.)

January 9, 2013

That's what I figured. I respect the hell out of stay-at-home moms. Heck, if I can get away with it, I'd love to work part-time while my (future) kids are young. But according to Nightsky, you aren't any man's equal, because you weren't born with a Y chromosome. Assuming you don't think less of women who do choose to have careers, I'm pretty sure we're on the same side of this debate.

You and your type put words in this girls mouth the same way you're imaging me saying things I didn't. Same way you imagine the patriarchy to be what it is. Too funny and the reason I aim clear of girls that act like you when it comes to a serious relationship.

Again please show me, quote me where the OP has stated that women are less than men.. I have reread the whole thread without finding anything of that color... OP states that women and men are different and that the differences are more than just the obvious physically... I actually liked your correction about feminist vs neo feminist... but it goes further than that.. I personally don't like woman who behave like men and therefore I would add it to any advise I would give (like OP is doing just giving an advise based on his way of seeing things).
So if you feel you are being tagged within this group you are most welcome to comment but at the end of the day his advise is not for you... not he cares much about what you have to add...

They are all actually helping to illustrate my points actually the way they over react and get all dramatic over all these sensible things I'm saying.

I'm not going to explain myself to them I'm here to open the eyes of young men. Make them unapologetic about the things they should want. A woman who is gong to find them a creep etc. just for being a man. A woman who wants to be a woman and be with a man. As opposed to what I see as the lesbian relationship.

January 9, 2013

Again please show me, quote me where the OP has stated that women are less than men.. I have reread the whole thread without finding anything of that color... OP states that women and men are different and that the differences are more than just the obvious physically... I actually liked your correction about feminist vs neo feminist... but it goes further than that.. I personally don't like woman who behave like men and therefore I would add it to any advise I would give (like OP is doing just giving an advise based on his way of seeing things).
So if you feel you are being tagged within this group you are most welcome to comment but at the end of the day his advise is not for you... not he cares much about what you have to add...

Speaking of the distinction I made, I tried to get OP to clarify which "flavor" of feminist he was talking about. Like I said, the "neofeminist" type is obnoxious, in which case I'd agree with his advice to stay away from them. But he seems to lump all women who expect equality into his "diseased mind" category all men should avoid. Again, being treated equally doesn't mean anyone has to assume men and women are exactly the same. It means giving equal respect to equal ideas and contributions. While we are on a quote request, can you show me one thing I've said in this thread that would make you think I am a "diseased" undateable woman?

And yes, since Nightsky does not seem to think my questions are worthy of his answer, I suppose there is not much point to continuing this thread.

Edited January 9, 2013 by AMusing

January 9, 2013

A few quotes that strongly, strongly indicate that Nightsky does not in fact view women as equal to men. Not just different (which literally nobody on the thread has argued about), but lesser than. I'm still waiting for him to clarify his stances and show evidence to back up his claims. His words are in italics, my comments are in parentheses.

Also be inclined toward women who support the patriarchy. (i.e. men should avoid women who want to be considered equal in their homes and relationships.)

I believe in a woman's right to vote in a democracy or work a job she is capable. I don't believe in affirmative action for women or special harassment laws or other things like discrimination laws. Let them compete on the same level if they can. (So, men should be able to discriminate against and harass women at work, and if the women can't take it, they should quit?)

Well I don't believe men and women are equal. (Explicitly, not just "different" but "unequal.")

The way they see men and think things like they aren't getting equal pay for equal work. (Why can't we expect equal pay for equal work?)

Men are better at doing the things you'd expect a man to be better at. (Please, tell me what should I expect a man to be better at? OP has been asked this and hasn't answered. So far he's only said a woman should be good at housekeeping, cooking, and raising her children. What are men supposed to be better at?)

I mean I guess you could change and see the light. But with your attitude it's pretty clear why I avoid your type. (Condescending much?)

I want to be the dominant one in the relationship. I want to be the man. (Again, men are the dominant ones, implying that women are not equal.)

That kind of guy you link too is the type of guy who would be willing to date a girl like you. One of the reasons he has done so bad with women is he is a timid man who doesn't chase the right kind of girl. (Women who do want to be considered equals deserve a man who nobody wants, and bitterly rails against women in his thread.)

Finally, an older post of mine, included for clarity, and his response to it:
Originally Posted by AMusing:
I'm all for women choosing to stay at home with their kids, if they so desire. But, would you really want to marry a man who considers you "lesser" than him? Who dismisses your accomplishments as secondary to his own? Or would you rather be with a man who respects you and is grateful for your work building your family?

Nightsky's response:
Why don't you leave and stop trying to infect her with your diseased LEFTIST mind haha. (Do you think anything I said in that post that you would describe as diseased or unhealthy, or even particularly progressive? He describes this viewpoint as "sick" or "diseased" several times.)

Men are stronger and better suited for certain jobs. Women shouldn't get hired because of affirmative action. We want equality right?

Men are dominant by nature, women are submissive by nature. You go against nature and there will be problems.

January 9, 2013

OP are you saying that men should start behaving old school again?

You know, picking you up, paying for dates, willing to hold off on sex for a while, etc?

Because yeah, all that would be great. Sadly most men don't date like this anymore.

January 9, 2013

They are all actually helping to illustrate my points actually the way they over react and get all dramatic over all these sensible things I'm saying.

This is the most beautiful piece of logic I have ever seen.

January 9, 2013

Men are stronger and better suited for certain jobs. Women shouldn't get hired because of affirmative action. We want equality right?

Never said men weren't physically stronger on average. Also never said women should be handed jobs they aren't qualified for. Did say that women (and men) should be free from harassment or discrimination based on their gender.

So, I skimmed some of OP's other threads. Had I realized the dude was filled with hate and had a long history of ignoring and name-calling anyone who disagreed with him, I wouldn't have wasted my time with this thread. But saying I became over-dramatic on the thread shortly after calling me diseased of the mind because I disagree with him, is hilarious.

Here I thought this was an opportunity to have an interesting conversation with a very conservative individual. Could've been enlightening; maybe next time. Naive for an online forum, I know, but a gal can hope, right?

Fonz, your male/female "dominance by nature" comment would make an interesting thread topic. But, as per my previous paragraph, I'm bowing out of this thread's silliness.

January 9, 2013

He's talking about the lame duck men you'll be dating if you want some one who buys into that.

Lame duck?? All of my exes held the same belief I did and they def. weren't lame ducks. One's a marine and the other is a big-shot attorney. The dude I'm flirting with now holds the same beliefs I do and is an entrepreneur. All good looking, smart, hold great jobs/careers and don't have antiquated beliefs about gender roles.

January 9, 2013

Speaking of the distinction I made, I tried to get OP to clarify which "flavor" of feminist he was talking about. Like I said, the "neofeminist" type is obnoxious, in which case I'd agree with his advice to stay away from them. But he seems to lump all women who expect equality into his "diseased mind" category all men should avoid. Again, being treated equally doesn't mean anyone has to assume men and women are exactly the same. It means giving equal respect to equal ideas and contributions. While we are on a quote request, can you show me one thing I've said in this thread that would make you think I am a "diseased" undateable woman?

And yes, since Nightsky does not seem to think my questions are worthy of his answer, I suppose there is not much point to continuing this thread.

I hate any feminism. I don't believe in equality as you define it. I believe in showing respect and chivalry to women because I could crush them if I so decided but don't out of chivalry. This outdated idea that a woman is some how my equal is not something I ascribe to. I'm not making any value judgments in this. I simply wish to be head of house hold and the person who wears the pants in the relationship so to speak. I'm by no way trying to say women are stupid or hurt your obviously fragile feelings over the subject. Just understand that this idea that we're both just people and I happen to have some physical differences is not where I stop, there's an entire masculine persona I enjoy inhabiting. I consider many of what you may refer to as modern day hetero sexual relationships to be lesbianic.

The things you have written in the quoted above are enough to at this time make you undateable to me if this was some kind of theme with you. I could imagine making a joke only to be told it's sexist or what ever. It's annoying, also it would be very annoying to be whined to that I was misogynistic.

Men are stronger and better suited for certain jobs. Women shouldn't get hired because of affirmative action. We want equality right?

Men are dominant by nature, women are submissive by nature. You go against nature and there will be problems.

I think feminists believe men should just do the harder more dangerous work just because... or to be some loser nice guy haha. Really feminism is all about destroying equivalent exchange.

If you challenge them on the realities of physical mental differences you're labeled as having gender hatred simply for broaching the subject. I have no patience for babies who want you to feel sorry for them.

OP are you saying that men should start behaving old school again?

You know, picking you up, paying for dates, willing to hold off on sex for a while, etc?

Because yeah, all that would be great. Sadly most men don't date like this anymore.

No not old school exactly this is a modern approach to modern problems. I doubt the old school man interacted with women who proclaim their love of porn.

I always like to do the driving when in the car with a girl even if that means driving her car lol. Thing is if she lives across town I'm not going to always pick her up. I think on a first date its sweet to be the one who pays, but once you get into a relationship you should alternate if you're both working. Obviously if they have no money I'll always pay. And obviously if we get married and they're staying home with the children I'll pay for everything and not be all "THIS IS MY MONEY MMMMMMMMMMMMYHYY MONEY!!!" haha

Misogyny is hatred towards women.

Wanting evolutionarily-determined gender roles is NOT misogyny.

Exactly.

I refuse to even play the name calling game, things like "he's misogynistic" "he's a creep" or what ever feel sorry for me thing they are saying.

I want to be head of household in every meaning of that term and if they don't like it they aren't some one I can honestly recommend dating. Also to these men who are happy being more like women and dating women who pretend to be more like men I challenge you to question everything you hold true about dating. My advice is especially to help you.

This is the most beautiful piece of logic I have ever seen.

What can I say I guess I have a beautiful mind.

January 9, 2013

Lame duck?? All of my exes held the same belief I did and they def. weren't lame ducks. One's a marine and the other is a big-shot attorney. The dude I'm flirting with now holds the same beliefs I do and is an entrepreneur. All good looking, smart, hold great jobs/careers and don't have antiquated beliefs about gender roles.

I don't know what happened with you and your exes. This advice is really for your ex's not for you. As I titled it "dating for men." Now your argument about holding the same beliefs in your failed relationships doesn't really hold water. I do realize at least one person has come in here claiming to be happily married and call my advice **** but that same person claimed him and his wife were home with the kids 100% of the time and making LOTS of money... So hardly not living my ideals even if he finds the need to argue them with me because of my views on feminism or PORN it seems.

If your entrepreneur potential love interest doesn't understand some of the things I'm talking about he is doomed. I respect him for being an entrepreneur but that a lone won't be enough for whats coming.

Most of the world holds much less egalitarian views than the west which is in a great decline because of these egalitarian views. So to call my views antiquated when evidence suggests they are the future is wishful fantasy on your part.

Never said men weren't physically stronger on average. Also never said women should be handed jobs they aren't qualified for. Did say that women (and men) should be free from harassment or discrimination based on their gender.

So, I skimmed some of OP's other threads. Had I realized the dude was filled with hate and had a long history of ignoring and name-calling anyone who disagreed with him, I wouldn't have wasted my time with this thread. But saying I became over-dramatic on the thread shortly after calling me diseased of the mind because I disagree with him, is hilarious.

Here I thought this was an opportunity to have an interesting conversation with a very conservative individual. Could've been enlightening; maybe next time. Naive for an online forum, I know, but a gal can hope, right?

Fonz, your male/female "dominance by nature" comment would make an interesting thread topic. But, as per my previous paragraph, I'm bowing out of this thread's silliness.

You quoted things I said and wrote things and than acted like "oh I never said any of this." "why won't any one answer my questions." Than you attack me and act so insulted over everything I believe. I don't feel sorry for you, I will never apologize.

If you want to ask things clearly I will answer clearly. I'm guessing you're accustomed to whining and having people act favorably... I don't know, but that's not going to work with me.

It seems you thought some of the stuff I wrote seems sensible. That's good. Obviously the part about avoiding women who associate with feminism is a big part of my advice. You have a problem with that. I understand that. We disagree. I do view your way of thinking as diseased, that's true. I also view the way you argue illogical, that's also true. I illustrated why, you quoted. Now we're going in circles.

You probably know everything I'm going to say. You might even agree with on some deep level, I don't know. Lets not go in circles though.

January 9, 2013

I hate any feminism. I don't believe in equality as you define it. I believe in showing respect and chivalry to women because I could crush them if I so decided but don't out of chivalry. This outdated idea that a woman is some how my equal is not something I ascribe to. I'm not making any value judgments in this. I simply wish to be head of house hold and the person who wears the pants in the relationship so to speak. I'm by no way trying to say women are stupid or hurt your obviously fragile feelings over the subject. Just understand that this idea that we're both just people and I happen to have some physical differences is not where I stop, there's an entire masculine persona I enjoy inhabiting. I consider many of what you may refer to as modern day hetero sexual relationships to be lesbianic.

The things you have written in the quoted above are enough to at this time make you undateable to me if this was some kind of theme with you. I could imagine making a joke only to be told it's sexist or what ever. It's annoying, also it would be very annoying to be whined to that I was misogynistic.

I think feminists believe men should just do the harder more dangerous work just because... or to be some loser nice guy haha. Really feminism is all about destroying equivalent exchange.

If you challenge them on the realities of physical mental differences you're labeled as having gender hatred simply for broaching the subject. I have no patience for babies who want you to feel sorry for them.

No not old school exactly this is a modern approach to modern problems. I doubt the old school man interacted with women who proclaim their love of porn.

I always like to do the driving when in the car with a girl even if that means driving her car lol. Thing is if she lives across town I'm not going to always pick her up. I think on a first date its sweet to be the one who pays, but once you get into a relationship you should alternate if you're both working. Obviously if they have no money I'll always pay. And obviously if we get married and they're staying home with the children I'll pay for everything and not be all "THIS IS MY MONEY MMMMMMMMMMMMYHYY MONEY!!!" haha

Exactly.

I refuse to even play the name calling game, things like "he's misogynistic" "he's a creep" or what ever feel sorry for me thing they are saying.

I want to be head of household in every meaning of that term and if they don't like it they aren't some one I can honestly recommend dating. Also to these men who are happy being more like women and dating women who pretend to be more like men I challenge you to question everything you hold true about dating. My advice is especially to help you.

What can I say I guess I have a beautiful mind.

The gentlemen doth protest too much, methinks.

January 9, 2013

The gentlemen doth protest too much, methinks.

I'm saying things you're the one protesting so turn that line of thinking back on itself methinks.

January 9, 2013

I will off the top of my head make 10 rules to go by when dating if you are a man. These rules will be in no particular order.

Thank you for inviting me to participate in your admirably well subscribed clusterf*ck, Nightsky. Since it was your thread, and as soon as I saw the title, I knew that feminism would figure quite heavily in this discussion....but I expected to see a bit more emphasis on "no fat chicks".

There's aggressive feminism and then there's reactive feminism. Feminism is the militant kind, and I don't think it's hugely surprising that a lot of men wouldn't want to date a militant feminist. I wouldn't want to date a militant men's rights activist. That kind of thing is generally going to be a turn off in a dating situation, because it brings an adversarial flavour in right from the off (assuming the date is between a man and a woman).

Then there's the more reactive brand of feminism, which I should think you would find very common amongst women when you're making comments like "I want to be the man of the household.....the boss." I think some things are better left unsaid, or you demonstrate them in what you do. You might have a dynamic with a woman whereas you are the dominant party and she's more passive, and you might both be very happy with that. I think once you start going on about "I'm the man...I'm the boss" then you're on the verge of boosting yourself up at the other person's expense/making them look foolish in front of others. So it's very likely you'll upset the balance of that dynamic and possibly lose it altogether.

It would be a bit like a woman who has a lot of charm and can wind men around her finger. As long as she's just doing it, the man she's doing it with is probably going to think she's great - even though they know what she's doing. As soon as she says "I can wind men around my little finger" then the spell is broken. Everybody, male and female, is going to want to see that woman get a puncture and have to change her own tyres.

She's lost sight of the fact that people only let themselves be charmed/dominated if it pleases them to be charmed/dominated (obviously barring situations that involve con artistry or violence). Once you start boosting yourself up at their expense ("I'm so charming...I'm so dominant...I'm the boss...the great manipulator") they're probably going to think it's time to take you down a peg or two. Or become more feminist/men's rights activist in their approach to you.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Taramere

January 9, 2013

With regards to feminism... Gotta share a story. I was raised alone by my mom. She was married to my father, but when I came along he started abusing me, smoking pot, molesting me, and LOSING me if she wasn't around, etc. Needless to say, she divorced him and took sole custody of me when I was very, VERY young.

She's 4'10", ok? You need to understand that. And she's absolutely gorgeous. She has long blonde hair, really pretty green eyes, and she's never had a problem getting a boyfriend when she's wanted a guy.

She also used to be a world-class powerlifter. At one time I remember seeing her name in a powerlifting magazine as ranked #2 in the country among women who don't use steroids. We're talking 500lb squats and deadlifts, 1000lb calf presses, and "only" 215lb bench presses (our chests are our weak points). And because she was single, I often went to the gym with her, so I knew my mom as a powerlifter who could beat the crap out of pretty much any guy I knew (she was also the oldest of six kids and used to beat up the boys who would pick on her siblings).

In addition to that, she taught me how to throw a perfect spiral with a football, how to throw a really hard fastball, how to cook, how to care for other people, how to be selfless, and not to give a **** about what other people think. My mom's extremely pleasant, but if someone doesn't like her for some reason (and I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't), they're the ones with the problem, not her.

What I'm trying to say is that you can be all and none of everything, regardless of gender. My mom wasn't all militant feminist to outward appearances, but she'd also ignore most of the guys in here spouting this ignorant crap. You wouldn't even register on her scale because she tunes out BS.

Now, you can go on talking about gender-defined roles if it really makes you happy. However, to most people who know how life really works, you just sound like an ass.

ETA: Strong females are all I know. Strong males are all I know. Every person in my family is a strong, smart PERSON. I guess I was very lucky.

Edited January 9, 2013 by Treasa

January 9, 2013

Let me first say that I fully support equality between men and women in every aspect but to many men there is no difference between feminist and misandrist. I don't agree with that but when some men say don't date feminists what they really mean is don't date man haters.

Also equality does work both ways. Just as there are no set roles for women there are no set roles for men. If you want a traditional woman or man be prepared to be traditional yourself.

January 9, 2013

You could even venture to say that feminism is a survival thing.

I can't imagine being without the ability to take care of myself. Completely attaching myself to a man physically, financially, and everything else is pretty stupid considering I could wake up one day and he's gone.

Thank god we've progressed to a point in time where I can be educated and form my own career, and that my voice matters. My grandmother didn't have that and stayed in an incredibly abusive marriage for years, because she had children and no other means of supporting them. She never knew what kind of mood her husband would be in when he got home from work. But she better have dinner on the table. If she didn't, she got smacked around.

But hey, he was head of the household and that's just how things were gonna be.

January 9, 2013

Thank you for inviting me to participate in your admirably well subscribed clusterf*ck, Nightsky. Since it was your thread, and as soon as I saw the title, I knew that feminism would figure quite heavily in this discussion....but I expected to see a bit more emphasis on "no fat chicks".

Oh geez... you. I wanted you to argue my points! Not start the comedy tour.

There's aggressive feminism and then there's reactive feminism. Feminism is the militant kind, and I don't think it's hugely surprising that a lot of men wouldn't want to date a militant feminist. I wouldn't want to date a militant men's rights activist. That kind of thing is generally going to be a turn off in a dating situation, because it brings an adversarial flavour in right from the off (assuming the date is between a man and a woman).

Then there's the more reactive brand of feminism, which I should think you would find very common amongst women when you're making comments like "I want to be the man of the household.....the boss." I think some things are better left unsaid, or you demonstrate them in what you do. You might have a dynamic with a woman whereas you are the dominant party and she's more passive, and you might both be very happy with that. I think once you start going on about "I'm the man...I'm the boss" then you're on the verge of boosting yourself up at the other person's expense/making them look foolish in front of others. So it's very likely you'll upset the balance of that dynamic and possibly lose it altogether.

It would be a bit like a woman who has a lot of charm and can wind men around her finger. As long as she's just doing it, the man she's doing it with is probably going to think she's great - even though they know what she's doing. As soon as she says "I can wind men around my little finger" then the spell is broken. Everybody, male and female, is going to want to see that woman get a puncture and have to change her own tyres.

She's lost sight of the fact that people only let themselves be charmed/dominated if it pleases them to be charmed/dominated (obviously barring situations that involve con artistry or violence). Once you start boosting yourself up at their expense ("I'm so charming...I'm so dominant...I'm the boss...the great manipulator") they're probably going to think it's time to take you down a peg or two. Or become more feminist/men's rights activist in their approach to you.

Your woman charm scenario is hardly relevant. I mean that sounds like a pretty nasty girl. A feminist really haha. Now my idea of wanting to be the man requires me to say it. I mean what if some one was the CEO but he was the secret CEO that no one ever knew about or ever will... kind of takes away the fun.

Also men's rights is just as bad as feminism. A bunch of cry babies. It's reactionary to feminism and it's the same game of lobbying the government for "equal" treatment. What a joke.

With regards to feminism... Gotta share a story. I was raised alone by my mom. She was married to my father, but when I came along he started abusing me, smoking pot, molesting me, and LOSING me if she wasn't around, etc. Needless to say, she divorced him and took sole custody of me when I was very, VERY young.

She's 4'10", ok? You need to understand that. And she's absolutely gorgeous. She has long blonde hair, really pretty green eyes, and she's never had a problem getting a boyfriend when she's wanted a guy.

She also used to be a world-class powerlifter. At one time I remember seeing her name in a powerlifting magazine as ranked #2 in the country among women who don't use steroids. We're talking 500lb squats and deadlifts, 1000lb calf presses, and "only" 215lb bench presses (our chests are our weak points). And because she was single, I often went to the gym with her, so I knew my mom as a powerlifter who could beat the crap out of pretty much any guy I knew (she was also the oldest of six kids and used to beat up the boys who would pick on her siblings).

In addition to that, she taught me how to throw a perfect spiral with a football, how to throw a really hard fastball, how to cook, how to care for other people, how to be selfless, and not to give a **** about what other people think. My mom's extremely pleasant, but if someone doesn't like her for some reason (and I honestly don't know anyone who doesn't), they're the ones with the problem, not her.

What I'm trying to say is that you can be all and none of everything, regardless of gender. My mom wasn't all militant feminist to outward appearances, but she'd also ignore most of the guys in here spouting this ignorant crap. You wouldn't even register on her scale because she tunes out BS.

Now, you can go on talking about gender-defined roles if it really makes you happy. However, to most people who know how life really works, you just sound like an ass.

ETA: Strong females are all I know. Strong males are all I know. Every person in my family is a strong, smart PERSON. I guess I was very lucky.

Quite the story but it doesn't change anything for me.

Let me first say that I fully support equality between men and women in every aspect but to many men there is no difference between feminist and misandrist. I don't agree with that but when some men say don't date feminists what they really mean is don't date man haters.

Also equality does work both ways. Just as there are no set roles for women there are no set roles for men. If you want a traditional woman or man be prepared to be traditional yourself.

Feminism has nothing to do for equality for "men and woman" as you put it. It's only about women and always at the expense of men. Where's your disconnect?

January 9, 2013

I am all for doing what works best for your family. I would never look down my nose at a SAHM or SAHD, or homemaker without kids (is there a better word for that, I don't know one).

Personally, the thought of taking myself out of the workplace and tanking my ability to provide for my family should something happen to my husband is nothing short of terrifying. Women with giant gaps in their resumes are most often passed over for roles (I see it everyday as part of my job). They certainly get paid A LOT less if they are hired. If your husband leaves, gets sick or somehow you lose that income-there's a really good chance you are majorly screwed unless you've really prepared for the loss of that income.

That is only my opinion and what I have seen personally with several families. I do know successful SAHM situations, too so whatever works!

January 9, 2013

Look feminism up in the dictionary and it says the belief that men and women are equal. I very much support that. What I am against is the garbage that I was beaten over the head for much of my youth. I simply don't support hatred especially when I am the target but it's never right at all in any case.

January 9, 2013

Look feminism up in the dictionary and it says the belief that men and women are equal. I very much support that. What I am against is the garbage that I was beaten over the head for much of my youth. I simply don't support hatred especially when I am the target but it's never right at all in any case.

Ah yes the idea that we can make both sexes equal by focusing solely on one of them. It's about making men more like women, and women more like men. It's horrible. Have you ever heard some one say if you're not a feminist you're a bigot there is no in between lol.

January 9, 2013

You could even venture to say that feminism is a survival thing.

I can't imagine being without the ability to take care of myself. Completely attaching myself to a man physically, financially, and everything else is pretty stupid considering I could wake up one day and he's gone.

Thank god we've progressed to a point in time where I can be educated and form my own career, and that my voice matters. My grandmother didn't have that and stayed in an incredibly abusive marriage for years, because she had children and no other means of supporting them. She never knew what kind of mood her husband would be in when he got home from work. But she better have dinner on the table. If she didn't, she got smacked around.

But hey, he was head of the household and that's just how things were gonna be.

I want you educated drseuss girl I just don't want you to be a feminist indoctrinated fool. To me you aren't a feminist. You haven't made any annoying feminist proclamations. I think you've been tricked by bull crap. Also it's a feminist myth that men went around beating their wives. I believe in chivalry that means even though I could kick your ass I'm never going to and that's for my own honor.

I am all for doing what works best for your family. I would never look down my nose at a SAHM or SAHD, or homemaker without kids (is there a better word for that, I don't know one).

Personally, the thought of taking myself out of the workplace and tanking my ability to provide for my family should something happen to my husband is nothing short of terrifying. Women with giant gaps in their resumes are most often passed over for roles (I see it everyday as part of my job). They certainly get paid A LOT less if they are hired. If your husband leaves, gets sick or somehow you lose that income-there's a really good chance you are majorly screwed unless you've really prepared for the loss of that income.

That is only my opinion and what I have seen personally with several families. I do know successful SAHM situations, too so whatever works!

There is insurance for such situations. LTD insurance and of course life insurance. Obviously not fail proof but adds more stability.

I understand your worries but if you want kids I think there's much more to worry about sending them off with strangers than to enjoy them yourself and give them the best upbringing.

January 9, 2013

I haven't been tricked by anything. I like being able to take care of myself, just like a man can.

100 years ago this was very difficult and you were considered an "old maid" at my age if you didn't have a husband. Frankly I like that I'm just fine as myself and having a husband doesn't define me or my social status.

I'll get married because I want to, and that's it.

January 9, 2013

I haven't been tricked by anything. I like being able to take care of myself, just like a man can.

100 years ago this was very difficult and you were considered an "old maid" at my age if you didn't have a husband. Frankly I like that I'm just fine as myself and having a husband doesn't define me or my social status.

I'll get married because I want to, and that's it.

Do you think I NEED a gf or wife or kids or anything except some food, water, and shelter from the elements. It's not about need, it's about want to for me as well. That's your annoying feminist talk coming through and making issues where there should be none. I really don't consider you man hating or anything but there is a clear feminist stream in you I'd have to take out before things could progress lol.

January 9, 2013

I understand your worries but if you want kids I think there's much more to worry about sending them off with strangers than to enjoy them yourself and give them the best upbringing.

Being financially able to provide things like FOOD, SHELTER AND CLOTHING is being a responsible parent. How is that sending them off with strangers to enjoy oneself?

Also do you know what LTD pays? Not enough. Most people are woefully underinsured. The courts are rife with men fighting child support payments. Many men would like to pay more but they don't have enough for two households. Many more men still are quite savvy about gaming the system and paying far less than they should.

In a dream world a family should be able to choose without any repercussions what is right for them. The reality is men get sick, lose jobs, walk out or worse yet, die. Then what?? If you choose a SAHM situation you better save like there's no tomorrow and even then, if your husband leaves he gets half of that savings should he leave.

January 9, 2013

Do you think I NEED a gf or wife or kids or anything except some food, water, and shelter from the elements. It's not about need, it's about want to for me as well. That's your annoying feminist talk coming through and making issues where there should be none. I really don't consider you man hating or anything but there is a clear feminist stream in you I'd have to take out before things could progress lol.

Ha. Ok then. Start paying all my bills, my student loans, my car payment, my rent, etc. then we'll talk about how you'd "like" me to start talking.

Deal?

Until then you can shutyoface,

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