xxoo Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 So I should go around calling all women cunt? Have you tried calling women something flirtatious? Call her "sparkle eyes"....if she has full lips, call her "angelina".....call her "button nose"....say, "hi, curvalicious!" if she's busty (your favorite!). She may get annoyed. Or...she may light up! But either way, she'll notice you.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 That's only part of the puzzle though. I don't do those things to get women, or to score points on which higher one I can get. That's not really what I'm saying. I do those things because I want to. And what I've realized is because I have a passion for those things, that's one way I can come across attractive - or for the purpose of this thread, "visible". Travelling is just one facet. I mean like what are you passionate about. Passion can be attractive. Also, it's how you bring yourself across. There are many variables to discover. There's no shame or particularly gruelling, hoop-jumping, work when it comes to understanding social dynamics. You don't have to completely change yourself or anything stupid. It's just understanding what works, immersing yourself in it, and being brave enough to adapt and apply it to how you want live your life. I always liken it to Jeet Kune Do. Oh, I do it for me too. I disagree with you. I don't think any of those things are going to help you too much with women. It's more about just volume and keeping at it. The most important things to MOST women are looks and base personality. Two things you really can't change. I mean, some women are deeper, but those women wouldn't have rejected the original you in the first place, improvements or not. I could pretty safely say that if I could go back in time 10 years ago with all of the new skills, experiences, and degrees that I have now, all of the women who rejected me 10 years ago would still. Those that decided to date me probably would have if I was as inadequate as I was 10 years ago. I mean, have you heard of the 5 minute rule? How are 10 years of improvements going to come across in 5 minutes?
Lonely Ronin Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I mean, have you heard of the 5 minute rule? How are 10 years of improvements going to come across in 5 minutes? they can come across in less than 60 seconds. I'm willing to bet your self confidence is defiantly different than it was 10 years ago, and most likely higher as well.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 they can come across in less than 60 seconds. I'm willing to bet your self confidence is defiantly different than it was 10 years ago, and most likely higher as well. If a woman who dated me later told me that in the first 60 seconds of meeting me that she decided to sleep with me and that if I had put on an otherwise 'lacking' performance she wouldn't, I don't care how hot she was or how hot she thought I was. Dumped. No interest. I'm really going to stick to that. Think about that for a second. 60 seconds.
ScreamingTrees Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I mean, have you heard of the 5 minute rule? How are 10 years of improvements going to come across in 5 minutes? You might carry yourself differently? I think I would, if I really worked on myself. I seem to get a lot more attention when I'm in a positive mind frame and carry myself in such a way. I think that most people who say that it wouldn't make a difference really aren't ever in a "positive" mindset to even begin with, no way to be sure about it working or not.. Even when they think they are, because in their minds they already know it's all futile so while they're putting on this facade of "positivity" by smiling at that total stranger, once they get home because a girl didn't just fall into their lap, the thought that was in the back of their minds springs to the forefront, and they release it all online. "See?! IT REALLY MAKES NO DIFFERENCE! I KNEW IT!" I'm guilty of doing this sometimes, instead of genuinely trying to do whatever I need to do to be in a good mood I'd rather say "eh, it'll make no difference" and just rot at home because it's comfortable. Although I don't come here to complain about specific situations because I don't expect any random stranger to give me their number because I was in their presence and smiled or something.. That's silly and irrational, and simply being friendly is a basic part of human interaction far as I'm concerned.
Lonely Ronin Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 If a woman who dated me later told me that in the first 60 seconds of meeting me that she decided to sleep with me and that if I had put on an otherwise 'lacking' performance she wouldn't, I don't care how hot she was or how hot she thought I was. Dumped. No interest. That's not what the 5 minute rule is. The 5 minute rule, says she knows in the first 5 minutes if she will ever sleep with you. In short the 5 minute rule is a litmas test with regards to attraction.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 That's not what the 5 minute rule is. The 5 minute rule, says she knows in the first 5 minutes if she will ever sleep with you. In short the 5 minute rule is a litmas test with regards to attraction. Yup. I know what it is. Some people try and say that they're judging more than looks in those 5 minutes though. I don't want to spend the rest of my life with somebody who thinks like that. I want to spend it with somebody who thinks like me. I plan to ask to screen women out too.
Lonely Ronin Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Some people try and say that they're judging more than looks in those 5 minutes though. If you know how to analyze people, you can.
ThaWholigan Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Oh, I do it for me too. I disagree with you. I don't think any of those things are going to help you too much with women. It's more about just volume and keeping at it. The most important things to MOST women are looks and base personality. Two things you really can't change. I mean, some women are deeper, but those women wouldn't have rejected the original you in the first place, improvements or not. I could pretty safely say that if I could go back in time 10 years ago with all of the new skills, experiences, and degrees that I have now, all of the women who rejected me 10 years ago would still. Those that decided to date me probably would have if I was as inadequate as I was 10 years ago. I mean, have you heard of the 5 minute rule? How are 10 years of improvements going to come across in 5 minutes? You really aren't understanding what I'm saying.... They aren't meant to help you directly - I'm saying they contribute to your overall character therefore indirectly making you a more viable option on an intellectual level as opposed to base attraction. Base attraction will happen with a select number of women who will already have been attracted to you IMO, or at the very least, women who approach things on your wavelength. I know the 5 minute rule - it's not applicable to women who don't apply it. And there aren't women who apply it. And by the way, you can augment both your looks and base personality - you can't entirely change it, but it doesn't always stay exactly the same. That you think it does will only serve to hurt you IMO.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 You really aren't understanding what I'm saying.... They aren't meant to help you directly - I'm saying they contribute to your overall character therefore indirectly making you a more viable option on an intellectual level as opposed to base attraction. Base attraction will happen with a select number of women who will already have been attracted to you IMO, or at the very least, women who approach things on your wavelength. I know the 5 minute rule - it's not applicable to women who don't apply it. And there aren't women who apply it. And by the way, you can augment both your looks and base personality - you can't entirely change it, but it doesn't always stay exactly the same. That you think it does will only serve to hurt you IMO. Yea. There's a lot of women who don't. I'd say most of my female friends don't. Yea, you can augment your looks somewhat. How much it will help is debate-able, but you can.
SJC2008 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 This thread is a prfect example of "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus" I hear be this that and the other! I'm tired if it. A guy I work with has slept with almost a hundred women! Do you know what the difference between him and I is? NOTHING except the fact that he gets laid! I'm funnier than he is, taller than he is, smarter than he is. He's not "confident", he's even keeled and mabye a little on the passive side. I wonder why he gets laid so much? Could it be because he's good looking?? No it can't be that. It's because he's traveled the world and has awesome stories to tell (he hasn't). It's because he's got charisma and is a charmer (he doesn't/isn't). He's good looking! Did I mention he's good looking? I'm not going to do all this stuff to better myself to pull some plain Jane who couldn't tell a joke if she had a script in front of her! I've gotten numbers/dates IRL and have had plenty of dated from OLD as well. I've had 14 dates in the last 22 months (12 were within the last 12 months) and of those 14, TWO of them were as funny/more funny than me! One of them was a passive agressive bitch and the other was way bigger than her profile let on. There's nothing wrong with wanting xyz in a man. Just have xyz to back it up!
MrCastle Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 This thread is a prfect example of "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus" I hear be this that and the other! I'm tired if it. A guy I work with has slept with almost a hundred women! Who told you he slept with almost a hundred women--him?
ThaWholigan Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 This thread is a prfect example of "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus" I hear be this that and the other! I'm tired if it. A guy I work with has slept with almost a hundred women! Do you know what the difference between him and I is? NOTHING except the fact that he gets laid! I'm funnier than he is, taller than he is, smarter than he is. He's not "confident", he's even keeled and mabye a little on the passive side. I wonder why he gets laid so much? Could it be because he's good looking?? No it can't be that. It's because he's traveled the world and has awesome stories to tell (he hasn't). It's because he's got charisma and is a charmer (he doesn't/isn't). He's good looking! Did I mention he's good looking? I'm not going to do all this stuff to better myself to pull some plain Jane who couldn't tell a joke if she had a script in front of her! I've gotten numbers/dates IRL and have had plenty of dated from OLD as well. I've had 14 dates in the last 22 months (12 were within the last 12 months) and of those 14, TWO of them were as funny/more funny than me! One of them was a passive agressive bitch and the other was way bigger than her profile let on. There's nothing wrong with wanting xyz in a man. Just have xyz to back it up! So what's your point then? That there's nothing you can do about it?
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 This thread is a prfect example of "Men are from Mars and women are from Venus" I hear be this that and the other! I'm tired if it. A guy I work with has slept with almost a hundred women! Do you know what the difference between him and I is? NOTHING except the fact that he gets laid! I'm funnier than he is, taller than he is, smarter than he is. He's not "confident", he's even keeled and mabye a little on the passive side. I wonder why he gets laid so much? Could it be because he's good looking?? No it can't be that. It's because he's traveled the world and has awesome stories to tell (he hasn't). It's because he's got charisma and is a charmer (he doesn't/isn't). He's good looking! Did I mention he's good looking? I'm not going to do all this stuff to better myself to pull some plain Jane who couldn't tell a joke if she had a script in front of her! I've gotten numbers/dates IRL and have had plenty of dated from OLD as well. I've had 14 dates in the last 22 months (12 were within the last 12 months) and of those 14, TWO of them were as funny/more funny than me! One of them was a passive agressive bitch and the other was way bigger than her profile let on. There's nothing wrong with wanting xyz in a man. Just have xyz to back it up! Thank you, thank you, thank you!
SJC2008 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Who told you he slept with almost a hundred women--him? Yes he did. Is he full of it? Very possible. I know he pulls though. A customer called the store after she left and gave hime her #. He get's blown up all day with texts. He went to a bar last week and a woman asked him for a ride and when she he was letting her out she said "I wanted to phuk" and they did in her car. He NEVER brags and only told me this when I told him about the last girl I dated (the strange place we hooked up). He isnt't the type to top your story so I beleive him.
SJC2008 Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 So what's your point then? That there's nothing you can do about it? My point is that there's no balance. A lot of men feel like we bave to be some suave, confident, knows what to say at every moment, just to pull a girl. You want a strong man, be a strong woman. Don't want a strong man because you're an emotional wreck. You want a funny guy, be funny too! I'm not here to entertain you. IMO many women think because they have the pussy they can demand so much! Many of them date out of there leagues, get GIG'd, cheated on. Then they're heart broken, gutted, wondering what they're doing wrong. Women want the best if the best! I've lowered my standards to my rock bottom and aren't going lower. Why should I go to the gym and be fit? So I can be another skinny guy with a chunky girl? No, my chunky ass should be able to get a chunky girl. That's the whole point many people don't get about the guys who struggle. I'm not going for bikini babes or hit girls while wondering what my problem is. I'm going for plain jane/cute girls wondering what my problem is.
SOLACEMENT Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Yes he did. Is he full of it? Very possible. I know he pulls though. A customer called the store after she left and gave hime her #. He get's blown up all day with texts. He went to a bar last week and a woman asked him for a ride and when she he was letting her out she said "I wanted to phuk" and they did in her car. He NEVER brags and only told me this when I told him about the last girl I dated (the strange place we hooked up). He isnt't the type to top your story so I beleive him. I am not sure but he/she took her home to **** in her car? So they drove to her house and got out of his car and didn't go inside but ****ed in her car? He/she may be not telling the truth some how.
ThaWholigan Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 My point is that there's no balance. A lot of men feel like we bave to be some suave, confident, knows what to say at every moment, just to pull a girl. You want a strong man, be a strong woman. Don't want a strong man because you're an emotional wreck. You want a funny guy, be funny too! I'm not here to entertain you. IMO many women think because they have the pussy they can demand so much! Many of them date out of there leagues, get GIG'd, cheated on. Then they're heart broken, gutted, wondering what they're doing wrong. Women want the best if the best! I've lowered my standards to my rock bottom and aren't going lower. Why should I go to the gym and be fit? So I can be another skinny guy with a chunky girl? No, my chunky ass should be able to get a chunky girl. That's the whole point many people don't get about the guys who struggle. I'm not going for bikini babes or hit girls while wondering what my problem is. I'm going for plain jane/cute girls wondering what my problem is. Its best I don't say exactly what I think of this. Its late. All I'm gonna say is that looking at it this way is going to make it worse for you in my opinion. Oh yeah: stop lowering your standards.
Necris Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Oh yeah: stop lowering your standards. Unfortunately I find that lowering your standards doesn't actually help at all, just because a girl in unattractive doesn't mean she is going to more receptive to your advances.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Unfortunately I find that lowering your standards doesn't actually help at all, just because a girl in unattractive doesn't mean she is going to more receptive to your advances. I said the same thing. A number of the women I have been cold rejected by are less physically attractive than the women I have managed to date. And by that I mean 10 out of 10 guys would say so. But I don't know how other guys have fared with this. Also, I haven't tried to consciously dip down lower, they were just coincedentally less physically attractive. I am curious as to other mens' experiences with this.
TheFinalWord Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I remember for years feeling like the invisible one. I was what the UK now probably calls an "inbetweener". I wasn't a misfit, nor the popular. I went to Boys School so the rules were slightly different for me - we were at a school that was surrounded by at least 4 girl's schools in the area, so we had our pick of girls back then. There were clearly more popular and social guys. There were the strong guys who were jock like, or just bigger than everyone. There was one really tall dude who was really cool and everyone liked him. Don't see him these days, but he was cool. Some of them were overly confident and boastful, sure. And they did tend to get noticed. But as I was getting older, I saw other things going on too. Misfit guys had girlfriends . The geekiest guys in school! I had a good friend called Ryan, whom is still an extremely dear friend to me now. Back then, he was a skinny dude with an insanely high level of confidence, bravery and just straight up bollocks. He was also extremely loyal. He wasn't the most popular dude in school (he never came in ), but he was a trailblazer because he didn't follow anyone but himself and his own views. I learned a lot from him because he didn't have to be a social engineer to get laid, and after that I started noticing everyone around me getting laid and having girlfriends. None of them were the most arrogant or boastful guys. They were just normal. Some were short and all sorts. So of course, this made me feel even more like sh*t and even more invisible. What did all these other guys have that I didn't? Was I ugly? I thought it was that, but whatever it was at the time, I believed myself to be invisible, especially to women. I didn't know anything! I identified with it, and even began to style myself as an invisible man - a mythical figure even. It became part of who I was then - just some guy. There was perhaps one thing that got me noticed, and perhaps the only time I perceived that anyone even clocked I was around - being a musician. I went through a small stage then where I hated making music, until one day I served to use it as my escape. I had creativity on my side, so all my energy was channeled there. Playing piano all night, making beats on my computer all throughout my adolescents, playing with sound. It became my entire secret existence, my own world away from school, friends, girls. I loved girls even before then - I just sucked at talking to them. I digress..... People noticed me when I made music. It was like all of a sudden the cloak was lifted and there I was sitting there all shiny with a keyboard in front of me. So I used music. I made friends, I spoke to people, I got bolder, braver, more confident, ever so slowly. I was a weird kid, so I was always awkward, but people responded, not always nicely, but I rode it out in the end. It wasn't till I left school that things got better. I failed academically but still managed to claw my way into college off the back of an A* in Music - so music saved me again. In College I really started to come into my own - I got better musically, and the better I got, the more confident I became. I started actually talking to girls for once. It was awkward, but it got easier and more fun. They still didn't date me, but I felt I was making progress, even though I was still invisible romantically. Uni was the same, except that I was at my peak socially. I had more friends than ever, I was acclaimed by peers musically, my social circle expanded, and I was more confident than I ever was. Then it all came crashing down. I had a meltdown and left University with an injury and never returned. I got diagnosed with Autism, and with that, I was invisible again. Sure, my friends never forgot me, but I had regressed. I believed myself to be invisible all over again and settled back into the same routine. Mythical figure. My music even descended into the very same chaos - simultaneously glorifying and lamenting my perceived invisibility to women. I was in the shadow of my friends when it came to them. My friends all had something that made them standout. They were funny, or they were charming, or they were insanely good looking, or incredibly smart (which I allegedly was, but didn't know how to use it), or had a passion. Something was going on with them, and nothing with me. All I had was music and it wasn't enough. So even my music took a hit when I did, and I sunk. It wasn't until a short while after my diagnosis when I joined my band, and a good friend told me that I needed to sack up. So I did. And change didn't come overnight..... I worked hard on myself. I lost weight, I dressed better, I learned how to get better with words and how to use them. I learned how to better read people and body language, how to read their words. I learned how to be relaxed around people and not take life too seriously. I worked with my autistic traits - the ones I couldn't mask anyway. I started smiling more, being braver and doing things I would never have done. Eventually, last year was a turning point. I had almost completely transformed. Sure, I still thought I was invisible seeing as my social circle had mostly been neglected while I worked on me but I didn't care. I needed that time on my own, I embraced my "invisibility" completely, while popping up occasionally to let people know I was alive. So with that, I talked to more women. I wasn't athletic, especially popular, nor did I believe myself to be all that smart or talented, but I was happier. I got slightly better responses each time. I was slowly coming back out of my shell again. Still kept slipping back in, but the more I did, the more I tried to jump out of my shell. Until last year, when opportunities started to pop up. At 23, girls were starting to like me, I thought "Yes, all that positivity and optimism was paying off!". And it did - I lost the V. But then something strange happened. After that, I got interest from EVERYWHERE. My social life had tailed off for a while, so that couldn't be it. I wasn't making music for now as I was working on business stuff, so it wasn't that. Was it the sex? I thought so. I thought they could smell the confidence coming off me. It was then that I had a good little think over my life, and spoke with my brother. I told him the same "invisible" story too. To which he replied "No, you were never invisible, you just acted like that because you're a weirdo and you hated yourself for it". He was right. I thought about it, and all that happened was based on a fallacy that I created. I was never invisible at all. I wasn't the most popular or social, but people talked to me and looked out for me. But most of all - girls already liked me. All the time I spent getting better at reading people and social nuances enabled me to go back and see all the signs of interest that I was getting all over the shop. So in actuality, it wasn't my "invisibility" that wasn't getting me laid. It was me. I was the problem, because I believed in being invisible and being the nice, quiet guy who couldn't strike it with women. I identified with it so much at that age that I almost became that person. But it wasn't who I really was. And I suspect its the same for all the nice guys on here. The nice, beta male is a rigid construct. It's so narrow that there are probably very few that would naturally fall into it. But somehow, people manage to squeeze themselves into that suit subconsciously and wear it like a badge of failure. Just like I did in my teens and at 20. But the suit isn't you. Nobody is that nice, nobody is that passive, nobody is that much of a pussy - not really. (well, some are, but you get my point ). There are inherent traits in all of us that we can call upon to balance ourselves out into the person that we can be. Whether that's narcissistic Machiavellian-type jerks, or Rich, charismatic socialites, or just an amalgamation of traits from all over the shot - you can find some of them in you and see how you can use that to your advantage. Like - I am a nice guy. But it's not the only thing I am. I'm nice. But I'm also intelligent, direct, impulsive, talented, compassionate, and helpful. There are more, but you get the point. Everyone has different traits, that fall outside of the realm of nice and beta. Step outside of the reality that tells you that this is what you are, forget the facebook comments and clinging onto everything that seems easier for women and "top tier men". Start looking within and finding out what your special things are, and how hard you have to work to get them and be that. Then you won't be invisible. In fact, you might even find out that you never were invisible in the first place. Wow Wholigan, epic post, you should really write a blog!!! I would also add writing to your list of talents. As well as patience (which works synergisticly with your compassion), you are one of the few that continuously tries to give constructive advice to the perpetual naysayers in these forums. My virtual hat off to you sir!
trevzilla Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Hmm, I have a different problem. I've kind of grown into myself at 42 and I have lots of good stories now (I actually surprise myself all the time because I'm like where did all this life experience come from). I can have an edgy sense of humour. Women at work love me and keep asking why I'm single and telling me that I'm a catch. I just am not meeting attractive, available women in my age range. I live in a really young neighborhood and there are zero available women in my immediate social circle. I feel that if the right one comes along I'll be able spark interest. I also hold back if I'm not blown away on a date, so I think I kill attraction because I'm not feeling it myself and I don't lay it on the line (a woman actually left her number for me at the hair dresser a month ago, but we went on the date and I wasn't feeling it and ironically she told me she didn't feel chemistry haha). I guess I'm just waiting for that spark on a date. The last time I had really amazing mutual chemistry was at a friends birthday party last year. She was trying to set me up with her friend who was physically attractive but weird and her other married friend ended up digging me. She was all over me and telling me she had the 7 year itch and was trapped in a loveless marriage. I just couldn't bring myself to be a home wrecker and there was a 5 year old too which would have made it even worse. So I think the opportunities just aren't coming my way. And online dating attractive women won't respond ever to my messages. It's always 45 to 50 year olds who are obese who want me lol. Sigh, so here I am coming up on 5 years of being single. Maybe I should have a funeral for my romantic life at the 5 year mark, I'm starting to feel despair and feel like I'm just going through the motions going to work and doing hobbies and hanging out with friends, when deep down I want to connect with a woman.
TheFinalWord Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Unfortunately I find that lowering your standards doesn't actually help at all, just because a girl in unattractive doesn't mean she is going to more receptive to your advances. For you friend, I think you picked too expensive of dates for women that only express aloof interest in you. What I mean by that is they say yes to a date, but give the run around, cancel, change times, etc. Basically, show that you're an inconvenience. When those shenanigans transpire, take whatever awesome idea for a date you had in your head and reduce it to a coffee date. Don't take her to see a full matinee. My guess is that she wasn't feeling you, but was thinking she could get a free movie and meal. A girl that was into you wouldn't have picked a movie for a first date. You can't talk. Instead, you could have found out you didn't like her over a $2 cup of joe in about 30 minutes and had those 3 hours of your life back. Go for a nerdy girl that is into computers and tech stuff. There's tons out there. I think iJustine is someone for you
xxoo Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 My point is that there's no balance. A lot of men feel like we bave to be some suave, confident, knows what to say at every moment, just to pull a girl. You want a strong man, be a strong woman. Don't want a strong man because you're an emotional wreck. You want a funny guy, be funny too! I'm not here to entertain you. IMO many women think because they have the pussy they can demand so much! Many of them date out of there leagues, get GIG'd, cheated on. Then they're heart broken, gutted, wondering what they're doing wrong. Women want the best if the best! I've lowered my standards to my rock bottom and aren't going lower. Why should I go to the gym and be fit? So I can be another skinny guy with a chunky girl? No, my chunky ass should be able to get a chunky girl. That's the whole point many people don't get about the guys who struggle. I'm not going for bikini babes or hit girls while wondering what my problem is. I'm going for plain jane/cute girls wondering what my problem is. And yet, there are guys who desire women enough to go after them, even if they aren't particularly funny, or thin, or strong. And no coincidence, those are the men that women want.
JuneJulySeptember Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 And yet, there are guys who desire women enough to go after them, even if they aren't particularly funny, or thin, or strong. And no coincidence, those are the men that women want. I'm not quite understanding this. If men are complaining about being rejected by average women, surely they've actually gone after them and been rejected, no? Or are you trying to say that a man once rejected should keep driving to the hole in hopes that she'll come around.
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