kiababy Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 I'm so sorry LittleF! I totally understand where you're coming from now! What stage are you at? In remission? Gee, I hope so. Now I understand your prespective completely. I told you in the past I admired your strength but that goes double now!
littleflowerpot Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by kiababy I'm so sorry LittleF! I totally understand where you're coming from now! What stage are you at? In remission? Gee, I hope so. Now I understand your prespective completely. I told you in the past I admired your strength but that goes double now! thanks. i do appreciate it. i'm not sure i'm ready to really talk much about it yet but i thought it was important to explain why i feel the way i do. i'm not completely heartless. i've said many times how much i love my ex. there is a great part of me that wants nothing more than to tell him i love him and i'll take whatever it is he can offer me. but that's just f**cked up for everbody and it isn't fair to his gf. it isn't fair to me. anyway, that's why i think people shouldn't wait too long to do things that they know they need to do. sometimes we can get comfortable staying in situations that hurt us or others. but we don't know when time will run out either.
kiababy Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 That's o.k., you don't have to go into any detail. I ended up having a hysterectomy due to two tumors, which turned out to be non-malignant. I went into the surgery fearing what they might find and at the time I was all about doing the right thing, making peace with my enemies (mainly my mother). I guess I kind of lost my perspective on that. Life is precious. Thanks for the reminder.
littleflowerpot Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 i'm glad you are better now. but look at the mess we've made of brand's thread! it's not even about him anymore!
Author brandx Posted August 23, 2004 Author Posted August 23, 2004 Originally posted by littleflowerpot i'm glad you are better now. but look at the mess we've made of brand's thread! it's not even about him anymore! Wow, huge kudos to both of you. I cannot imagine having to go through what either of you have. It is interesting that you say it the way you did, LTF, about making the most of each day. I went through a bout with a serious illness that has never been diagnosed for certain when I was about 20. When I look at your comments through the perspective of valuing every day, especially because of the uncertainty of our health, it really does make me wonder "what the hell are we all waiting for all the damn time"? Why do we let our fear of uncertainty and of discomfort prevent us from truly living. I should know better. Thanks for the reminder. Now let's hope each of us can take action rather than talk about it. Big test for me tonight I think. BTW, I was cracking up when I saw your comment about my thread. No problems, unlike a lot of people (ok, men in particular -- we're such babies sometimes), I don't always feel the need for the conversation to circulate around me. As long as we are all helping each other, who cares who we are talking about? Besides, I managed to slip some things about myself back into this post; guess I am like other men sometimes. Be well. Brand X
littleflowerpot Posted August 23, 2004 Posted August 23, 2004 well, it's a good thing i really, really like men.
kiababy Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 what the hell are we all waiting for all the damn time"? Why do we let our fear of uncertainty and of discomfort prevent us from truly living. You're so right BrandX - I keep asking myself what I'm waiting for? It's always 'someday I'm going to do this' and ''someday I'm going to do that'....but I'm not doing ANYTHING. Part of it is that I've put my life virtually on hold for my MM, waiting for something to happen....but I'm not sure what. The other part of it is just surviving instead of really living. Big test for me tonight I think. If something big is happening with you tonight, I hope all goes well!
morgana Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 littleflowerpot - sorry to hear about your cancer, it's not an easy road and i hope that all goes well for you. shortly after my 40th birthday i was diagnosed with breast cancer and ended up with a bilateral mastectomy, major, major amounts of surgery and radiation. they told me if i was going to get cancer, i got the "best" kind, stage 0. i made a difficult decision, the cancer was only on one side and i asked my surgeon to please take both breast, many people couldn't understand why i did it, i just knew i couldn't go through that hell again. but on top of fighting cancer i found i had to defend my decision to people. it's now almost 5 years, and knock on wood, i'm still fine. although i go for my mammogram in a few weeks and needless to say the stress is ridiculous. and this year because of other things going on in my life, the stress has been close to unbearable. the cancer was the end of my marriage. we had problems, and i know many say that facing a crisis can bring you together, but it can also tear you apart. my ex always needed and still needs to be the center of attention (he's a professor and singer in a band) and i took that away from him for a few months. his parents very much treated me like i was doing something to him, almost like i'd gotten cancer on purpose. he tried to be there to support and i'm sure did everything in his mind that he could. but as a result, i knew that i was the only one responsible for my own happiness or lack there of. life's too short and i couldn't face the rest of it married to someone who made me as unhappy as he did. unfortunately, even though i'm fine, i find i have no where near as much patience as i used to. i get so afraid that every chance i find for happiness may be my last. one of the reasons why my situation with my MM (that i posted about a few weeks ago) has been so, so difficult for me to handle. i finally found that one person who i felt made me complete, and it seemed so unfair that he was being taken away. facing your own mortality is an eye opening experience and definitely changes the way you look at yourself and the world around you. i wish you strength and health!!! morgana
littleflowerpot Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 thank you, morgana. i identify so much with so much you just said that it's uncanny. i too have much less patience than i did before this. my ex-attached guy is in a band too. my own family is surprisingly less supportive than i could have ever thought. oh, they say they are supportive but the truth is that they never wanted to talk about it. if i felt i needed someone to talk to, i was always given the lecture "things could be worse...think about the good things." how much worse did it have to get for God's sake? to me that's such a ridiculous thing to tell someone that's crying and wanting to talk about all the overwhelming emotion that a threat to your mortality brings up. but they suck at it so i've just pretty much isolated and have withdrawn into myself. i first got sick three years ago and i was okay for awhile but it came back. i think it's the main catalyst for my ending things with my ex. i realized that it would never end happily and i was just wasting time. i felt unimportant to him. well, not important enough to **** or get off the pot anyway. and when you are facing the possibility that you may die, you really, really have an urgent need to feel important to someone. sigh. tonight he emailed me again. i haven't answered the past few emails and he is sounding more and more sad and retrospective and sentimental but i know in my heart that if i succumbed as i so badly want to, it would still be the same. good luck to you too, morgana.
Author brandx Posted August 24, 2004 Author Posted August 24, 2004 This could possibly be one of the more interesting and meaninful conversations I can recall being privvy to in the recent past. It is difficult for me to even begin to imagine the emotions each of you must be facing given the issues of mortality; I don't know that I have ever given mortality the consideration it is likely due in my life. I would like to ask each of you a question, then, in light of your revelations. I don't even know if this is going to be a clear question, or a musing, or whatever. And PLEASE, if I offend you in any way, I do not mean to; I have nothing but respect and empathy for your situation, at least to the best of my ability. I am simply coming from a position of someone who wants to understand and possibly grow from the experiences of others, and if you would be kind enough to respond/share your thoughts, I would appreciate it. If you feel it is too personal, I completely respect that as well; just say so. So here goes. Morgana, unfortuntately I have not had the prviledge to read as many of your posts as I have of LTF, so I probably do not feel I have as decent of a handle on your background as I may LTF, and that is not to say I "know" her, maybe am just more familiar with her story and posts. Anyways, I understand the sense of urgency that exists in your lives now that I have read your current posts. What I am surprised at is that you both seem to feel the need to look outside of your selves to feel whole and important. Again, I do not "know" either of you, but from what I see and think I can intuitively apply, you are both very compassionate, caring, intelligent women. You are already complete. You are already important. You don't need any man, woman, child, dog, anything to confirm that. You both seem to have experienced so much personal growth, but you both seem to limit yourselves in many of the same ways that some of us who have not experienced that same growth do by getting involved with MM or people who are otherwise committed. You allow yourselves to base some of your self worth on these relationships. Again, I am NOT criticizing, and maybe I am really misreading your posts, but this is some of what i am getting from both of you. I know we are all just posting here, so I realized that things may not always be as they seem, but I think that we are all open enough that you can know who is true and who is full of ****. I have learned something from this experience with my wife and from reading/sharing here; I believe the two of you have learned it as well, but maybe sometimes we all forget or allow ourselves to becomed so overwhelmed with our feelings that we lose sight of it. You are both WORTH a lot. Independently of your SO, families, children, friends, anything. Whether you can feel it at all times or not, it is still true. Do not allow yourself to get dragged down by a connection that was not meant to be. I know you have greater urgency in your lives, and I will do nothing to discount that. But I also know that if I can see your kindness, compassion, worth, value, etc. from what you have put of yourself on the Internet, then there are a LOT of men who would be willing to invest in you to be a true lifetime companion. I am probably being naive here, but I really feel that is true. We all sell our selves short. That is part of why we keep coming back here. The two of you have had to face your mortality, which is both a "curse" possibly, but also a gift. Life is too short, you both know it. Neither of you care to dilly-dally with your times, but don't do it with your feelings either. Don't just pull away from these guys physically. Do whatever it takes to pull away emotionally. You are both strong, great women. Other people will invest in you for those reasons; don't waste another ounce of emotion where it is not reciprocated 100% and built upon. Sorry, I hope I did not get out of line or too preachy here. Originally posted by kiababy You're so right BrandX - I keep asking myself what I'm waiting for? It's always 'someday I'm going to do this' and ''someday I'm going to do that'....but I'm not doing ANYTHING. Part of it is that I've put my life virtually on hold for my MM, waiting for something to happen....but I'm not sure what. The other part of it is just surviving instead of really living. Thanks Kia. If I can keep this straight in my head, I will be a much better person for it. I will not live for today at another's expense if I can help it, but I will not sit on the sidelines at my own expense ever again. If something big is happening with you tonight, I hope all goes well! Thanks for the encouragement. In all honesty, it did not play out even remotely as I thought it would. Over the past week my wife and I have been talking whenever we could without our daughter hearing; most times this would be for an hour or two after we put her to bed. Most of these conversations have revolved around me trying to explain how I feel about us, the values I feel we don't share that need to be there for a marriage. I have held off on telling her that I know i only got into this because she is pregnant for 2 reasons: 1, it is very hurtful for her to hear that. 2, I felt that if we could not connect on the values that are important as lifetime partners that it would not matter so why hurt her uneccesarily. Anyways, she was gettng very frustrated with me, feeling like she was in limbo and did not understand what I was doing, even though I felt I was being crystal clear, and for the first time ever, being honest with myself, and therefore with her, about my feelings. Last Friday, she asked me to list all of the values I felt we needed to examine so we could attack one at a time and she was very upset when she saw how long the list was. Since my wife tends to express fear and sadness through anger, and anger is the one emotion that puts me completely on my heels, you can guess that this did not enhance our communication. Based on how non-productive I felt it was, I felt that we might as well start by addressing what I felt was the biggest deal breaker of them all. For me, this issue, accountability for our actions and lives, was an area that was very critical for two reasons: 1: As a value, I had NEVER heard her take responsibility or accountability for her actions, life, etc. It was always the fault of: her parents, ex husband, me, teachers, judges, lawyers, medicine, doctors, etc. Hey, I know that she has had some bad things happen, I will not take that away from her, but in the end, you create your own experience in life. You cannot spend your entire life pointing your finger and looking outside. You have to do a gut check and move on sometimes. 2: We had some pretty ugly times in our first 5 years. I took the brunt of all of her anger and emotion. She never once acknowledged this with any sincerity. This is the one thing I feel I had personal feelings about. The rest of this I could seperate as differneces of values, beliefs, etc. Nothing personal, but just that maybe we are not the right partners, but this area was different. I had built up such an enourmous wall between us to protect myself over the past 7.5 years, and I truly did not even realize it until 2 weeks ago, I felt I needed closure to this. I needed her to help me get there. Bottom line is, I KNEW she could never do this. She had never even hinted that it was possible, always lashing out if it ever even came close to coming up. I would have bet my life and that of my daughter, the most precious thing I have, on it. So last night , I thought we would talk. But she said she needed to think more, so of course I go to bed slightly annoyed, but she is typing, adn I know it is to me. I wake up this morning and find a 2+ page letter from her. And now....well, now I am blown away. Everything I could ever have asked her to say about the past 7 years is in there. Things that there is no way she could be saying because she thinks I "want" her to say them, because I never told her some of those things. I wanted them to come from her heart, so I did not want to tell her what to say to me. And she said it. I really think all of it. She understood everything. I had no idea that she was capable of feeling these things and so deeply. She has never shown any sign of it that I could consider sincere or meaningful. What is even more, she said exactly what I have realized. I would not be with her if not for our daughter. And even though she loves me, she does not want to make me stay if I want to go. So here I am. Until 6:15 this morning, I had completely checked out of this marriage. I was giving effort out of respect for her and concern for my daughter, but I KNEW in my heart that things could not change and I had made such peace with that I cannot even explain. Now, after this letter, which I have read twice, and which has overwhelmed me, I don't know what to think. The wall is gone. I cannot ask her to do anything more than what she has done. It is all I have ever wanted to hear, and she has said it. I will not hold a grudge against her for what is past. She took responsibility and accountability for her actions. I never gave her enough credit, and I will tell her that tonight. I underestimated her, and I am sorry for that. The question is, what next. I am, for the first time since I began this journey of self exploration, I think I am confused. I never expected to clear this hurdle. I had prepared for dealing with it, but never for clearing it. Damn, life can throw curveballs at us, especially when we think we have figured it out. I no longer have this hurdle in front of me. I have several other values that are critical to me that we are far apart on, but I guess I look at this and say if she can really feel this way in this area, what is to say that we cannot be closer together on the others. Here is my challenge: the fact still remains that I know that I married her because she was pregnant. I have not loved her as a husband should love a wife for the past 7.5 years. Not because I didn't want to, and not truly with conscious knowledge. I have been so set on staying in it for my daughter and because I committed to loving her that I never allowed myself to see that those stubborn commitments were what was in my heart, not actual love. I do not know if I can love her that way. I love her as the mother of my child. I respect her as a good person, truly especially now. I love her as I love a family member, I think. But that is not enough. I am not sure what is enough, or what is right here. I just know that I have had my head down for so long, that it is not possible for me to have felt love in the proper way that she deserves from a husband, and I want to give a wife. I am not sure if I truy have the desire in my heart, after all of this time, to try the way I should. I fear I may have considered what I have been doing the last 2 weeks a formality for her sake. Does this make sense, or am I rambling? I would love some input. Sorry this is so long, but it is the way I do this sort of thing. Ask any questions you want, I may have left out details, but I would appreciate some feedback from anyone. Thanks Brandx
kiababy Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 I do not know if I can love her that way. I love her as the mother of my child. I respect her as a good person, truly especially now. I love her as I love a family member, I think. But that is not enough. I am not sure what is enough, or what is right here. I just know that I have had my head down for so long, that it is not possible for me to have felt love in the proper way that she deserves from a husband, and I want to give a wife First Brandx, let me preface my comments by saying if any couple can stay together at all - they should do it. Divorce is horrible and gut-wrenching, especially when there is a child involved. But......reading your comments, I wonder if what you have now will be enough for you? Ten years from now will you be satisfied to be with a woman you love as a 'family member'? And while it's great that she wrote the letter and put into words what you needed to hear - does that change her as a person? When she's afraid or sad she won't be able to react any other way than how she does now - with the anger you described. She is who she is, and won't magically turn into the person you want her to be no matter how good her intentions are. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she WANTS to be that person for you, but people don't change just like that. A lot of people will recommend therapy, great - long, long process, no guarantees. She should probably do that anyway to work out her issues for her own sake and the sake of your child. Anyway, being apart will not make you any less of a father if you spend as much quality time with your daughter as you can. I grew up listening to parents who fought all the time - even though you try not to fight in front of her, trust me, she knows. The worst thing parents can do is to play out a bad relationship in front of their children. That's my two cents anyway
Author brandx Posted August 24, 2004 Author Posted August 24, 2004 Wow. That was really great. Thank you so much. Not to say that you have cleared everything up for me, but I really needed some of that perspective. Funny, how things can be such a roller coaster sometimes. I had honestly not even considered her not being able to change how she speaks out, acts, etc. even though I know she wants to. All evidence is to the contrary. And honestly, she was still pretty nasty with me as she was starting to type this. That being said, I will continue talking with her, just because I think we need it. She will never go to therapy, she has told me that. I am a big believer in it, she hates it. And again, you are right about the fighting. Although, honestly, we do not do a ton of fighting any more. But it is just generally a loveless marriage at many times, and I want to set a better example for my daughter, let alone acheive more for myself. If I cannot do that, it has to end. Time will tell, but we know our hearts like to give us "sneak previews". Thanks again so much. Other input welcomed as well! Take Care, Brand X
morgana Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 brandx- you are right, to some extent, about my need to look outside to feel "whole and important." spent several years in therapy dealing with some of that. part of it is just me and part of it in all honesty stems from the fact that i had "parts" of me removed that were very important (in many ways). part of that is how society views women....face it there's an awful lot of attention placed on women's breasts!!! and yes, there's a part of me that needs / wants to have a man still tell me i'm beautiful and whole. maybe hard to understand but when you lose a part of yourself that way it's hard, especially at the beginning to feel whole since every time you look in the mirror, you're reminded that you're not. don't get me wrong, i had an amazing plastic surgeon and with clothes on, no one would ever know. without obviously there are a lot of scars but otherwise it's not so obvious what i've been through. or at least that's what i've been told. part of it for me was/is also that facing cancer and possibly death makes you feel all sorts of emotions and mostly more fear than one could ever possibly imagine. for me it was and still is this fear that makes me want to know that someone values me, someone loves me, and in my case, also that someone finds me attractive. don't get me wrong, i know in my heart that i'm attractive, i see the way men look at me. i'm 5'2" 115lbs and even after everything i have a figured that could beat out many of the 20something women i see at work everyday (i work at a university). all that said, the thought of opening myself up to scrutiny by letting someone see me without clothes is difficult. and although the MM i was seeing is not the only man i've been with since my surgery and all have been "accepting" of the way i am, there was something unique about what i felt from him. i don't even know that i could put into words the softness and caring i'd see in his eyes when we were together. he truly made me feel as though there was no one else in the world that he wanted to be with, including his wife. and that's been difficult in this situation too. i know he needs to feel as if he's given his marriage one more try, but from what i've heard, it's been pretty half-hearted on her part. and it frustrates and angers me to know that he so wanted to be with me and she openly said (before i came into the picture) that she didn't want him, hated the sight of him, etc. so it's hard to not want to scream at her.... "then let me have him already!!!" my situation with him is complicated and i won't go into details but when we became involved he had every reason to believe that his marriage was ending this summer, since that's what she had told him for years. needless to say fate threw some nasty curves his and my way and his marriage may be able to be saved or it may not, the juries still out. one of the harder things for me with dealing with any rejection, in this case from my MM (although i'm not sure rejection is the right word) is struggling with the possibility that it could be because i'm not perfect. he's been sweet, more than i could ever possibly convey to anyone, about how he feels about me and how he feels about the way i look. i guess our "timing" was just off, and in spite of the fact that i shouldn't, i'm still holding on to the hope that at some point in the future that the timing may be right for us. i know i've read so much about people trying to save their marriages for their kids sake. and i do agree that if there's any chance that a marriage can be saved, it should be. but it's so, so difficult for me to read some of that and know that kids can go through things so much worse than a divorce. i do believe the fighting creates more problems, and in my case the fact that i didn't want to be in the house with my husband and spent every waking hour i could at my office distanced me from my kids. the kids began to be convinced that i didn't love them either. once i moved out, i felt like i could go back to being their mom again and regardless of the damage a divorce can do, my kids were so thankful to have me back. and i can honestly tell you that telling my kids that mom and dad were getting divorced was a piece of cake compared to telling them that i had cancer. for the divorce i could confidently look at the kids and tell them that i promised everything would be ok. my daughter was 6 when i was diagnosed and seeing that tiny tear stained face look at me and ask "mommy are you going to die?" was the most gut wrenching experiences you could ever face. and yes, it's colored my view of things. when i hear people talk about staying together just for the kids, sometimes i get angry because i know there could be so many more worse things they could face. i firmly believe that if two people are together and making each other miserable i don't care if there are kids involved or not, everyone deserves to be happy and every kid deserves to be able to see each of their parents being happy. i can think of nothing worse for my kids than if i had stayed in a miserable, unhappy marriage and then died. kind of a scary thought...and since for the most part nobody really knows when that's going to happen, it puts a new spin on things (or did for me anyway). the thought of them not being able to see the fun loving, somewhat inappropriate childlike mom i am ever again because i was so unhappy was too much for me to bear. (my kids think i'm slightly nuts and my daughter's friends have dubbed me the "coolest mom"). my marriage sucked the life out of me and the cancer made me realize that i had every right and responsibility to my kids to show them that every moment in time was a gift, that life was wonderful and that everyone has the right to happiness in a realtionship.
Author brandx Posted August 24, 2004 Author Posted August 24, 2004 Morgana, Thank you for responding. Again, I hope I did not come off as uncaring; I just truly wanted to gain greater insight. Thank you for sharing with me. I am really sort of speechless in response to your post. How can I possibly speak with any sort of compassion or emotion that can even touch what you have dealt with in your life. I do think I better understand your position. I feel bad that I wrote in a way that sort of just compared you to anyone else. I truly hope you find what you are searching for, whatever that is. You have a good heart. Be strong, as you already are. Just do the best you can to be honest with yourself, even if it means admitting things about your MM or situation that you would rather ignore. ( I am GREAT at giving advice I don't use in my own life, BTW). I really do not know what else to say. I am very impressed with your self understanding already and no matter whom you end up with, they will be very fortunate, that much I can guarantee. I know you are right about staying in it for my daughter. I just have to be sure that this is not some flighty mood change thing of mine, which I deep down do not think it is. God, it brought tears to my eyes to read about you telling your daughter when she was 6. My baby is 6. I cannot even comprehend telling her that sort of thing. Thank you again for your thoughts and feelings. Be well. Look after your own heart. BrandX
littleflowerpot Posted August 24, 2004 Posted August 24, 2004 "What I am surprised at is that you both seem to feel the need to look outside of your selves to feel whole and important." i am not so sure about that. i think you misunderstood my saying i needed to feel important to someone as my needing someone else to tell me i was important. you see, i don't think it's unhealthy for anyone to want to be important to someone. everyone wants to know they are loved, valued and important to the person they love. with my ex-attached guy i began to feel unimportant and that mattered to me. not because he could define me but because when you are involved with someone that doesn't value you, you are in a deficient relationship. all people have a basic human need to be loved. the next time i become involved with a person, i'm going to be as sure as possible that i am important to that person. until that time, i will be by myself because i KNOW i am important. i was touched to read that you felt a connection to your wife through her letter that you haven't felt in many years. that is soooooo important because even if you divorce, it will be a much better thing for both of you and your child to have that connection. this is a great opportunity for you to open up communication which is probably one of the things that helped to erode your relationship. however, you've been upfront with us that you never really loved your wife. well, you do love her as you would love a family member but you are not in love with her. she deserves to have a husband that is in love with her. you deserve to be happy too. most importantly, your child needs to see her parents happy and getting along well. probably in your case this means getting a divorce but being an integral part in both your child and your wife's life even after the divorce. i hope things work out well for you.
Author brandx Posted August 24, 2004 Author Posted August 24, 2004 Originally posted by littleflowerpot "What I am surprised at is that you both seem to feel the need to look outside of your selves to feel whole and important." i am not so sure about that. i think you misunderstood my saying i needed to feel important to someone as my needing someone else to tell me i was important. you see, i don't think it's unhealthy for anyone to want to be important to someone. everyone wants to know they are loved, valued and important to the person they love. with my ex-attached guy i began to feel unimportant and that mattered to me. not because he could define me but because when you are involved with someone that doesn't value you, you are in a deficient relationship. all people have a basic human need to be loved. the next time i become involved with a person, i'm going to be as sure as possible that i am important to that person. until that time, i will be by myself because i KNOW i am important. You are right. I did misunderstand. I apololgize. As always, you have great perspective. Just pick a better guy next time, then. One who deserves you. i was touched to read that you felt a connection to your wife through her letter that you haven't felt in many years. that is soooooo important because even if you divorce, it will be a much better thing for both of you and your child to have that connection. this is a great opportunity for you to open up communication which is probably one of the things that helped to erode your relationship. however, you've been upfront with us that you never really loved your wife. well, you do love her as you would love a family member but you are not in love with her. she deserves to have a husband that is in love with her. you deserve to be happy too. most importantly, your child needs to see her parents happy and getting along well. probably in your case this means getting a divorce but being an integral part in both your child and your wife's life even after the divorce. i hope things work out well for you. Thank you. I hope so too. The farther I get into the day, the more I think that it is still going to be divorce. One letter cannot cause love. It can smooth the road in my spirit, but it cannot create emotions that don't exist for me. I will keep talking and we will see. I know she is hurting and hoping to keep us together. I really think this is going to be a dissappointment to her, but we cannot stay in this situation. She does deserve a husband that is in love with her. I really want that for her, even if it is not me. She has a lot to give to such a husband, just as I have a lot to give to the right partner. I hope, as you said, we can just work things out for our daughter if we cannot for ourselves. Thank you all for your kind words. LS is rather addicting; very helpful, but addicting, if you know what I mean. Take Care, Brand X
sami Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 why do you want to feel important ? you are, in fact, important.
littleflowerpot Posted August 25, 2004 Posted August 25, 2004 Originally posted by sami why do you want to feel important ? you are, in fact, important. everyone is important and it's normal to want the people to love to feel you are important to them.
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