Want to be fair to the OW -- Need your input

August 18, 2004

I am posting in this forum because I have read several posts here and think there is some great advise to be sought. I won't bog you down with my whole story (you can read it here http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t45811/ if you want to know my background for this).

Basically here is my store: I am married. I met OW a couple of weeks ago when we were both on trips (mine work, hers fun). We clicked HUGE. Emotionally more than anything. We kissed, that is it physically (we slept in same bed, but did not want it to go further because of my family). I tried to walk away when we left each other, telling her it was the "right" thing to do, but my heart would not let me do it.

We talk on phone and email much during the day. We have agreed that it needs to be a friendship until I take care of things at home. I don't want her to put her life on hold for me. She has helped me open my eyes without even trying to see my true feelings about my life (see other post for details). My marriage issues are seperate from my connection with her. I know I cannot have my marriage stay the same; I either have to fix it or bag it.

I know that I cannot possibly "love" someone in less than 2 weeks. That takes a long time and I have learned that lesson. I am also adult enough to realize that 6 months from now we could find that we are completely incompatible. In addition, I am tyring to honor my marriage by working on that before investing in a relationship ANYWHERE else. That is why I refuse to mix my feelings for her and my need to change my marriage.

here is what I am asking: How do I do right by her?

I have been more honest with her than I have even been with myself. I have told her everything I have posted and more. I refuse to BS any longer in my life. She has volunteered to disappear until I have changed my marriage if I want her to, but I really don't want that and neither does she. She is proving to be a great person and great friend. She says she understands the situation and will just be friends if I am married, although we both know what feelings are underlying. I don't want her to get hurt in any way. She is being very careful not to make any attempt to influence what I am doing in my life; she is just being a great listener and offering thoughts when asked, friendship, conversation. I feel bad, though, as if I am dumping on her when I ramble about my challenges make changes at home.

Bottom line: As OW, how would you want to be respected, treated, etc. in this situation? She says she is a big girl and can take care of herself, but I owe it to her if nothing else to do what is right and I don't want her feelings to cloud her judgement.

I have asked for input specifically from littleflowerpot, bubbles, and sinner because I recall your insights as very direct and honest. That is what I need right now. Pull no punches (of course, that does not mean I will follow suggestions, but we must start somewhere). That is in no way an attempt to discredit others' feedback I have read; I just don't have the best memory for all of the people, so please, all feedback is welcome.

Please provide anything you can.

All for now

BrandX

August 18, 2004

Originally posted by brandx
here is what I am asking: How do I do right by her?

You don't. You do not have a commitment to her. You need to do right by the woman to whom you made a vow. Fix your marriage or get out and follow your lust. It may turn into love and it may not. You already know that.

What is missing in your marriage that this OW seems able to provide? You said you talked with her in depth---why haven't you talked with your wife? SHE is the one who should know your feelings and your decisions.

You know you can't have both. Choose one and let the other go.

August 18, 2004

Hokey,

Good questions. I have tried to keep this post brief, so I have not included my entire post from another forum that answers all of your questions, but you can follow the link in my original post above here to see more details. Basically, I do not think this OW can give me anything that my wife cannot. What is missing between my wife and I has nothing to do with the OW. It is within my marriage. I have tried and am currently trying to talk with my wife about it to explain my feelings and get hers as well, so I am working to honor that commitment as well.

As far as the statement that I do not have a commitment to OW, I think I would disagree. While it is no where near the commitment I have with my wife, I feel I have a commitment to both. I am honoring the commitment to my wife by discussing my true feelings and the issues between us. The commitment to OW is a moral commitment to someone who got caught in the cross fire. As a human being that cares, I do not want to hurt another person, be it my wife, child, OW, stranger, etc. I am merely trying to take her feelings into consideration since I allowed her to get involved.

Thank you for the input.

BrandX

August 19, 2004

hey, brandx. first off, do you love your wife? do you want to make it work with her?

if you do, i think you've got to stop EVERYTHING with the OW. not just for your wife but for her as well. believe me, when i was still with my ex-attached guy, i told him the same thing. i was a big girl. i could take care of myself. we could just be friends if that was all we could have. but of course, i fell even more deeply in love and i was crushed when i had to end it.

if you want to stay married to your wife, i just don't realistically see any other way but to end things. in the long run, someone and possibly both women are gonna get very hurt.

do you have kids? if so, you need to think about the kids too.

if you don't love your wife anymore, then the best thing you can do for HER would be to be honest and get out of your marriage. i'm not sure you'd need to tell her about the OW because if you don't love your wife anymore it really isn't about your gf. of course, then you'd have to be extremely discreet and sensitive and maybe hold off on seeing the OW for a few months after you and your wife split. but until you leave your wife, you are only hurting both women by seeing the gf.

that's my honest opinion.

August 19, 2004

Despite your best intentions, brandx, I believe your OW has already eclipsed your wife in your heart and head. You and your OW are having an affair: the sexual tension, the confidences exchanged, the centrality of one another in each other's emotional and mental landscape. Already, your OW has replaced your wife as the "go to" person in your life and as the focus of your thoughts, dreams and desires.

You're smitten, my man. Smitten.

What does this mean? It will be impossible for you to do anything meaningful in rebuilding your marriage for so long as this OW has you by the balls. And she does, my friend. The OW will continue to be one huge diversion in your life, an emotional drain on your marriage and a fatal attraction to you.

This is an either/or, my friend, not a both/and. When it comes to affairs, a marriage is Ground Zero.

It's still early in the game: if you wish to salvage your marriage you must go cold turkey with the OW. If you want to carry on with the OW, and I believe you do, you can continue pretend to your wife, yourself, and others that you care about your marriage or you can separate and embrace this new woman as a woman as opposed to an "other" woman.

I suspect you'll continue to trick yourself into believing that you can keep this OW in reserve as a "friend" while you do the right thing by your marriage. This woman, however, is no friend to your marriage and/or family. She is toxic.

At the end of this inglorious process, as you survey the wreckage all about you, you'll probably end up having neither a wife nor the OW. Life throws lots of curves . You, my friend, not the OW, is the one most in need of protection.

Good luck, my friend.

August 19, 2004

I have to agree... before you go any further with the OW, you need to make a decision about your marriage. If you continue the relationship with the OW and later decide not to leave your marriage, you'll only end up hurting her more. Right now she obviously wants to be with you so she'll say whatever it takes to get that... down the road, depending on your decision, she may regret it. Besides, how can you possibly work on fixing a marriage (if that's what you truly want to do) while falling for someone else?

August 19, 2004

sinner and quilly are both right.

August 19, 2004

Everyone on here has given great advice.

If you want to save your marriage, have no contact with the OW. No friendly chit chats, no confessionals. Your marital problems should be either discussed with your wife or a qualified therapist. Be fair and respectful to the OW--make it clear that as long as you are legally married, you cannot continue a relationship with her. The OW may patiently wait in the wings for you to get a divorce, or she may decide to walk out on you.

If you want to keep the OW as a friend--and you are having an affair, even if it is non sexual--be fair and respectful to your wife. Be honest with her about your feelings and notify her that you wish to get a divorce. If you decide to keep in your marriage and stay mum about your friendship, your wife may find out what is going on with the OW, and decide to walk out on you.

August 19, 2004

Littleflowerpot, Sinner, Quilly:

Thanks for your responses and advice. Please forgive me, but I think maybe it would be helpful if I showed you my post from another forum; I think it will help you better understand my situation. If you have already followed the link and read it, please ignore the added detail and accept my apologies for bogging this down. If you have not read it, please do -- it is at the very bottom of this post; I think it will help you better understand my comments/responses/feelings.

Now, in response to each of your particular questions, etc:

Originally posted by littleflowerpot
hey, brandx. first off, do you love your wife? do you want to make it work with her?

I love my wife as the mother of my daughter. I want it to work with her for my daughter's sake. If my daughter were not in the picture, I would not hesitate to walk out the door and never look back. I don't mean to sound cold; I don't want to hurt my wife, but I am done subverting my own feelings to protect hers.

believe me, when i was still with my ex-attached guy, i told him the same thing. i was a big girl. i could take care of myself. we could just be friends if that was all we could have. but of course, i fell even more deeply in love and i was crushed when i had to end it.

I am afraid that you are probably right here. She is not being honest with herself on this and I am conveniently letting it continue because I enjoy the friendship, care about her, and see a possible connection after I have settled my marriage.

if you want to stay married to your wife, i just don't realistically see any other way but to end things. in the long run, someone and possibly both women are gonna get very hurt.

Agreed. I am working with my wife every day in open conversation right now to try to determine this.

do you have kids? if so, you need to think about the kids too.

As above, yes 1 daughter. 2 step children. To be honest, as stated, my daughter is keeping me in it and has for a long time.

if you don't love your wife anymore, then the best thing you can do for HER would be to be honest and get out of your marriage.

Again, agreed. She definitely does not see it that way, but I am working and talking with her to see if there is anything there we can do to connect through love, values, partnership, etc. to make this work before I bail out.

i'm not sure you'd need to tell her about the OW because if you don't love your wife anymore it really isn't about your gf. of course, then you'd have to be extremely discreet and sensitive and maybe hold off on seeing the OW for a few months after you and your wife split. but until you leave your wife, you are only hurting both women by seeing the gf.

Right again. I am not telling her about the OW, but that is based more on the personal dynamics of my wife/situation. My marriage issues are completely seperate to me from the OW. I am also not seeing the OW, although quite clearly having an emotionally intimate relationship with her. In the end though, please understand that while I care for the OW, I fully realize that there may be nothing between us tomorrow and I will not progress there until I have taken care of business at home.

Originally posted by sinner
Despite your best intentions, brandx, I believe your OW has already eclipsed your wife in your heart and head.

I am not sure I agree with all of this, but let me be the first one to admit that most people will never agree with something they don't like the sound of, so I am trying to be VERY open minded and do not want to discourage any feedback or criticism. It does not feel or seem that the OW has necessarily eclipsed my wife in my heart and head in that way. To me, I have awaken to the fact that my wife is not in my heart or head the way a husband should hold a wife. I need to decide and take action on whether my wife can hold that place for me and we are discussing this every evening.

You and your OW are having an affair: the sexual tension,

There is no sexual tension between the OW and I; definitely not on my end anyways. I have to admit I have no way of knowing her enough to be able to speak for her. But speaking for myself, sex is way low on my priority list. The sex is great with my wife and more frequent than I can probably handle because my wife can mainly only express her love/affection through sex. I am not very normal for a guy as far as I can live without sex completely. I enjoy it when it has the right meaning, but I have very good handle on where it belongs.

the confidences exchanged,

I agree on the confidences exchanged. In reality, this is the first person I have been able to safely give my confidences to in about 8 years, so you are absolutely correct there.

the centrality of one another in each other's emotional and mental landscape. Already, your OW has replaced your wife as the "go to" person in your life and as the focus of your thoughts, dreams and desires.

You're smitten, my man. Smitten.

Again, I know people can tend to keep the truth from themselves, but honestly, my wife has not truly ever been the go to person in my life in the way a wife should be. I am not criticizing her, I am at least 50 percent responsible for that. But this leads me to believe that I am more smitten with the idea of moving on than with this particular OW. Don't get me wrong, there is a connection, but connections can be very temporary. That said, I am being open to the fact that I could just be fooling myself.

What does this mean? It will be impossible for you to do anything meaningful in rebuilding your marriage for so long as this OW has you by the balls. And she does, my friend. The OW will continue to be one huge diversion in your life, an emotional drain on your marriage and a fatal attraction to you.

Again, I am not so sure that the OW is what has me by the balls or the realization that I am not in the marriage I want to be in has me.

This is an either/or, my friend, not a both/and. When it comes to affairs, a marriage is Ground Zero.

It's still early in the game: if you wish to salvage your marriage you must go cold turkey with the OW. If you want to carry on with the OW, and I believe you do, you can continue pretend to your wife, yourself, and others that you care about your marriage or you can separate and embrace this new woman as a woman as opposed to an "other" woman.

Quite honestly, while I care about the OW, what I want is to grow in my current situation; that may be grow to my wife, or grow apart and divorce. I have told my wife this and we have now had 2 very involved and open conversations to move forward in a direction that is honest for the both of us.

I suspect you'll continue to trick yourself into believing that you can keep this OW in reserve as a "friend" while you do the right thing by your marriage. This woman, however, is no friend to your marriage and/or family. She is toxic.

At the end of this inglorious process, as you survey the wreckage all about you, you'll probably end up having neither a wife nor the OW. Life throws lots of curves . You, my friend, not the OW, is the one most in need of protection.

Again, Sinner, I am not sure what to tell you here. I am convinced that there are some other things at work here that may take away from the accuracy of your assesment, but I know that we often convince ourselves of what we want to believe. I am truly taking all of your comments to heart and doing self analysis on these issues. The reason I opened myself up to the forum was for input that I could not generate on my own. Now that I am getting similar input from 3 people, I know I need to give it serious consideration.

Originally posted by Quilly
I have to agree... before you go any further with the OW, you need to make a decision about your marriage. If you continue the relationship with the OW and later decide not to leave your marriage, you'll only end up hurting her more. Right now she obviously wants to be with you so she'll say whatever it takes to get that... down the road, depending on your decision, she may regret it. Besides, how can you possibly work on fixing a marriage (if that's what you truly want to do) while falling for someone else?

Absolutely correct, Quilly, that I need to make a decision about my marriage. I already have; I am just testing that decision to make sure it is the right one by working diligently through this with my wife. I want to make sure any decision I make is thorough. Too many hearts are at stake here in my family, let alone if I consider OW.

Thank you all so much for the posts. Sorry, I tend to analyze things quite a bit, so it leads me to writing "books" on the forum. Please always post your honest thoughts and opinions. They are truly appreciated and helpful. Below is my marriage story if anyone wants to reference. Bye for now.

BrandX

Originally posted by brandx
Hey all,

I came across LS a few days ago and have been quietly reading on the sidelines while some thngs play out in my life/head. I am at the point where I know I could benefit from input from some of the people I see posting here regularly, so it is time I put my story up and ask for feedback. Bear with me, it could be a bit lengthy.

I have been married over 7 years. This is my first marriage, her second. I was 22, she was 29 at the time. She has 2 children from previous marriage; that divorce was and still is very ugly. We said I love you after just over a week; had sex shortly thereafter. She got pregnant and we were married within a month or so.

First several years were very hard. She has a very good heart, but had real difficulties (anger at everyone/thing, suspiciousness, outbursts, etc.). I was likely not mature enough to handle things the way I should have, but stuck through it and worked as hard as I could. I had decided I would stay in this for my daughter and because I had made a commitment. That was going to be enough.

About 2 years ago, she got on meds. Personality evened out and really only have maybe monthly or so fights, really nothing outrageous at all.

A couple of weeks ago during our monthly row, some things were said and I decided I just would not let them sit in my stomach any more. I travel sometimes and was out of town. A group of friends and I were out and hanging out with some ladies we met. Nothing major, but I clicked huge with one. Nothing happend until the third night in a row, when she asked me if I was happy. I was drinking, which tends to be a truth serumm for me. What came out of my mouth still has me shocked.

I said that I was not happy and wouldn't ever have married my wife if not for my daughter. As I talked with this woman, I continued to just pour out myself to her about this. I guess for the first time I felt there was not any danger in being honest. I had been asked this question by family and freinds, especially when things were bad, but I guess maybe I was always too scared to look at the real truth, even though I know now it was buried there.

I spent the entire night with this woman talking about myself, my life, basically thinking out loud. Yes, we kissed, and as abhorrent as that is, it is not nearly as bad as the possible emotional infidelity that has existed that night and after. In truth, though, that remains a seperate issue for me. I refuse to have sex with her because what I have done is bad enough.

In examining myself the next day and each day after, I have been faced with a truth that is not pretty for my family:
I hate to say for sure, but I do not love my wife as a husband should love a wife. I never have. She does not love me in the way I want to be loved as a husband. I am not sure how it could have happended any other way given the circumstances, but maybe I always hoped for more. We have very different values when it comes to life, children, money, responsibility, accoutnabiulity for our actions, etc. We are not on the same team in this marriage and I am not sure thatwe can be because we are so different. I love my wife as the mother of my child. I have stayed in this because of my daughter, whom I love more than anything on earth. I have thought for years that I will just leave when my daughter leaves for college.

In looking in the mirror, though, I have to wonder: Why should I be miserable deep down with roller coaster moments of happiness? Won't my daughter sense this and possibly repeat this self destructive behavior? I recognize this behaviour in myself as something learned forom my mother, even though I am sure she never meant to. It certainly is not fair to my wife to have her stay with me if I feel this way, but I do not want to hurt her by telling her the exact depth of my feelings and that I suspect they may go back to day 1. I am certain I still have resentment deep down for what I feel are injuries of the past and unappreciated sacrifices as well, but I am trying to hold these seperate as best I can; I want to examine the relationship, not necessarily her as a person, because that could come off as a personal attack.

I am sure people may comment that I am doing this for the OW. Rest assured, I am very wary of that. Bottom line, I can say unequivicolly that if my wife came to me today and said she is going to let mehave my daughter, I would help her pack or pack up our things immediately. I think that there is just such a disconnect between our wants, needs, values, existence, that I have stayed for the wrong reasons and never been willing to look deep enough to see it. In fact, I think if she had the ability to be truly honest with herself and dug deep, she would likely find something similar.

So, here is what I have done. I have told her that we need to examine our marriage; that we have a major disconnect in many of the areas above. That I want to see if we can connect in those areas and grow together; otherwise we are going to have to grow apart. I told her I want us to go to marriage counseling. She was blown away. She got very defensive, even though I was painstakingly careful to not make it about HER, but about US/our relationship. She said I am never happy and will only be if it is only MY way. I tend to disagree with the my way, but I did not want to start a fight over one point, so I noted it and went on. The fact of the matter is I am not happy, have not been. I have been tolerant of my wife for many years. That is a terrible thing to be. I mean, we have had happy moments, and some where we could be content, but I know in my heart that I would not be married to her if not for my daughter.

So, my questions to the forum:

We are going to be talking again soon; anything I should be saying to better express myself or make things clear or be fair to her?
What red flags do you see in the behavior described above that I may be missing?
What else can I do to try to connect with her; I really feel deep down that it may be a lost cause because I have finally admitted to myself how I feel and I feel stronger about it than I have ever felt in the past, but I do not want to have an itchy trigger finger and go right to divorce. I can live with the money side of things, even though I will be giving up a lot more than likely. I do not want to hurt her if I can help it, and I know I already am. And, MOST importantly, I want to spare my daughter from any pain that I can.
Clearly this divorce is going to be ugly; I have seen enough aftermath from her first to bet that will be the case. Would anyone stay just because of that/
In general, what do you think. Be brutal, ask questions, whatever, but be honest with me; don't ask me to read between the lines; clearly I am not that bright. Be straightforward and I will return the same.

Enough from me for now

Thanks

BrandX

August 19, 2004

I clearly overrated the OW's impact. This is more a case of you completely and utterly not wanting to be married to your wife, anymore.

It's your marriage that makes you unhappy, not the OW's siren call.

It sounds to like you have a "for the kids" marriage, and that you neither love nor even particularly respect or like your wife.

Unless you want 20 more years of low grade misery, you may want to consider folding-up your tent. When you do (and it's a question of when, not if) the OW might have spousal expectations of her own.

You must resist the temptation to rely on this OW for emotional support and hugs while you jettison your wife, only to dump the OW once you're out of your loveless marriage. The OW as emotional insurance.

John Kerry did that, I believe.

Best of luck walking through this mine field.

August 19, 2004

I have an honest question:

When you make love to your wife, are you really making love, or to you is it just having sex?

You say you love your wife as the mother of your child, is there any, at all, spark there or is it just as the mother of your child?

I do agree with the other posts as well, who have more experience in this than I do but I also feel by reading your posts (even the other one) that if you are not in love with your wife, and there will never be the feeling, divorce would be better than to live a lie, and this way your wife can move on and find someone who will love her more than you do, and be happier than to be in a loveless marriage. Does your wife know how you feel? I know she doesn't know about the OW.

Let me ask you this: If the tables were totally turned, would you want to know how your wife felt, or would you rather her continue on for the kids? I try to figure out things by putting myself in another's shoes, and see what I would want.

Good luck to you. Marital problems are never fun

August 19, 2004

Originally posted by kim874
Everyone on here has given great advice.

If you want to save your marriage, have no contact with the OW. No friendly chit chats, no confessionals. Your marital problems should be either discussed with your wife or a qualified therapist. Be fair and respectful to the OW--make it clear that as long as you are legally married, you cannot continue a relationship with her. The OW may patiently wait in the wings for you to get a divorce, or she may decide to walk out on you.

If you want to keep the OW as a friend--and you are having an affair, even if it is non sexual--be fair and respectful to your wife. Be honest with her about your feelings and notify her that you wish to get a divorce. If you decide to keep in your marriage and stay mum about your friendship, your wife may find out what is going on with the OW, and decide to walk out on you.

Things are very clear with OW and I. And my marital problems are being discussed actively with my wife. I have given the OW the choice and made it clear to her that if this becomes more than friendship and causes a distraction between what I need to do, I will walk away in an instant. Not pretty, but honest.

Bottom line, I know my marriage needs to change - either we grow together or apart. That has nothing to do with OW, and everything to do with my wife and I.

August 19, 2004

Originally posted by sinner
I clearly overrated the OW's impact. This is more a case of you completely and utterly not wanting to be married to your wife, anymore.

It's your marriage that makes you unhappy, not the OW's siren call.

It sounds to like you have a "for the kids" marriage, and that you neither love nor even particularly respect or like your wife.

Unless you want 20 more years of low grade misery, you may want to consider folding-up your tent. When you do (and it's a question of when, not if) the OW might have spousal expectations of her own.

You must resist the temptation to rely on this OW for emotional support and hugs while you jettison your wife, only to dump the OW once you're out of your loveless marriage. The OW as emotional insurance.

John Kerry did that, I believe.

Best of luck walking through this mine field.

Truly, sinner, I feel the most unfortanate thing is that I may have realized that I never wanted to be married at all to her, but "did the right thing", which ironically, rarely ever is. Now I am working with my wife to see if we have the foundation to build on the have a marriage together or if it was just doomed from the start. I want to give it that chance for my daughter, myself, and my wife who has invested time and many emotions in this. We may have very different values, feelings, etc. but I definitely owe her that respect. I also will not drag it along when we have reached critical mass.

As for the OW, I have been VERY above board with her and I feel with myself as well. I don't want or need the emotional insurance. Don't get me wrong, there is a point in time where this would not have been true, but it is not today. I am actively working to not rely on the OW for support, etc. in the face of what will be the reality of this when the dust settles, which is, that no one can promise anything and what is felt today can change in an instant.

Thank you so much for replying. I am glad that I put the whole deal in there now. You have fabulous insights. They are always welcomed by me and I hope by others.

August 19, 2004

Originally posted by supermom
I have an honest question:

When you make love to your wife, are you really making love, or to you is it just having sex?

Good question. I was so sexually inexperienced prior to my wife, I don't know if I know the TRUE answer to that. I am not a big sex fiend, so it is not much for sexual gratification. I guess my best answer is neither; I am trying to reciprocate the emotions that she is feeling/needing to feel. That's not very romantic, I know, but off the top of my head, that feels honest.

You say you love your wife as the mother of your child, is there any, at all, spark there or is it just as the mother of your child?

No spark right now. I feel for her, but as MOC. I know there was a spark at first, but I was so young and infatuation is always prominent early in any relationship. In addition, I was always the kind of person who really WANTED to be in love. Still probably am. I just realize it now and know how to recognize the weakness.

I do agree with the other posts as well, who have more experience in this than I do but I also feel by reading your posts (even the other one) that if you are not in love with your wife, and there will never be the feeling, divorce would be better than to live a lie, and this way your wife can move on and find someone who will love her more than you do, and be happier than to be in a loveless marriage.

I agree. I am just trying to work with her to see exactly what does and can exist between us. I don't want to make a rash decision.

Does your wife know how you feel? I know she doesn't know about the OW.

Let me ask you this: If the tables were totally turned, would you want to know how your wife felt, or would you rather her continue on for the kids? I try to figure out things by putting myself in another's shoes, and see what I would want.

Good luck to you. Marital problems are never fun

My wife knows how I feel to some extent. I soon as I was aware of my feelings and had evaluated them over several days, I made clear to her that we need to examine our relationship. That we have a serious disconnect in many areas, and if we cannot work together on them and grow with one another, that we will have to part ways. That said, I am sparing her the details of some of this, such as the fact that I think I have felt this since the first year of marriage and just now became aware of what that feeling is. That, in my opinion, is unnecessarily hurtful. I m really trying to focus on current issues, or rather shared values, that need to be there for anyone, including us, to have a successful marriage.

If I were in her shoes, I would want to know, but her and I are VERY different people. Plain and simple, she would rather not know if I could fake my way through it enough. But that is not the right way for either of us to live.

Thank you, supermom, for your post. Please let me know your thoughts. I am glad you posted in response to this.

Best

BrandX

August 19, 2004

it seems so clear that you don't love your wife. it sounds as if you have respect for her but that is not love. i don't think you can make yourself love her. not even for the kids. loveless marriages aren't good for the kids either. even if you could find a way to have the terrible fights anymore, kids are intuitive and would be able to feel that things are definitely not right. people say they stay for the sake of the kids but does that really give the kids a good sense of what marriage should be? the bottom line seems to be you don't love your wife and i doubt you ever really will. staying married will prolong unhappiness for both yourself and your wife and i don't think it makes your children very happy either.

i agree the OW would probably be a distraction and would muck up the process of doing what needs to be done for your family - even if that is a divorce. sounds like you met a nice woman at the wrong time. maybe you can open up your friendship again sometime down the road after ending your marriage. maybe she'll have moved on by then. either way, you can't let that be a distraction right now.

it won't be easy but both you and your wife deserves to find happiness and i don't see that happening as long as you are in a loveless marriage.

August 19, 2004

Posted by Brandx

"If I were in her shoes, I would want to know, but her and I are VERY different people. Plain and simple, she would rather not know if I could fake my way through it enough. But that is not the right way for either of us to live. "

I think you are answering your own questions about the future of your marriage. Realistically, you can't 100% guarantee that your wife won't find out about what is going on with you and this OW.

August 19, 2004

Either piss, or get off the pot.

Make your decision. You don't want to be married anymore. What is the problem? Your daughter will recover as long as you remain a good FATHER to her.

August 19, 2004

Originally posted by Mr Spock
Either piss, or get off the pot.

Make your decision. You don't want to be married anymore. What is the problem? Your daughter will recover as long as you remain a good FATHER to her.

How so? Do you think that 2 days worth of discussing this with my wife is not fast enough? Is this a decision that should be made in less time than that or with less allowance for consideration of her feelings? In my opinion, and that is all that it is, I need to talk this over with my wife, issue by issue and value by value, to make sure that there is nothing salvageable there. Is that unreasonable?

I have been completely upfront with OW. I have told her, and she has encouraged me to work through my issues at home, that are completely seperate from her, out before her and I do anything more to proceed. We both acknowledge that we (OW and I) may never proceed because I may work things out with my wife (not likely) or we just may not be right for each other, or she may find someone else, or whatever. Regardless, after knowing OW less than 2 weeks and being honest with her and all of the work I am doing to try to resolve things, please help me understand how I am not in the act of either pissing or getting off the pot? I could understand that if I had been going over this with my wife for 4 months, or if I had met OW 6 months ago, but not under these circumstances. Again, that is not to say I am right, I just would like you to please clarify in light of the facts.

Thanks Spock!

BrandX

August 19, 2004

You're holding all the cards here brandx. What you need to do is inform your wife that you have feelings for someone else-she may suprise you and agree it's time to move on. You never know. I soley meant "piss or get off the pot" in your own HEAD. It seems to me you already know what you want, you're flip flopping back and forth with ifs and maybes. There is no right decision here, IMO-what it comes down to is what is best for YOU?

Until then, you're holding the lives of those around you hostage, so to speak.

August 19, 2004

understood. thanks for clarifying. Not sure if it seems that simple to me, even though I am pretty much a simpleton. Admittedly, though, maybe I am making it harder in my head than it needs to be.

August 19, 2004

Not so much simple as that you seem to be looking for some kind of sign to make the "right" decision, and there isn't one......what would be best for you, brandx? The lot of them be dammned. I'd like to hear what you want to happen in the next 4 years or so.

August 19, 2004

Originally posted by Mr Spock
Not so much simple as that you seem to be looking for some kind of sign to make the "right" decision, and there isn't one......what would be best for you, brandx? The lot of them be dammned. I'd like to hear what you want to happen in the next 4 years or so.

Phenomenal question. 4 years from now I want to be in a situation where I am in a position to parent my daughter to the best of my ability and live by an example that I can be confident is good for her to see and allows me to have a healthy mind and spirit. I want to be in a situation where I can respect myself and anyone who I may be involved in on multiple levels, including values, goals, etc. If it means I am with my current wife, great. If it means I am with someone else, fine. If that means I am alone, I have no problem with that, as long as I am not subverting my feelings, needs, values, etc.

I don't know that I am waiting for a sign, per se, but rather I am wanting to try to lay my cards on the table for my wife and let her know what I need in my life. If we can acheive that together, great. But I truly doubt it. Still, I don't want to just assume anything; she deserves the chance to know how I feel. Rest assured, though, I am done stringing myself along. Therefore, no one else should get strung along in the process.

Thanks Spock. I hadn't asked myself that questions quite that directly. It was good to put the answer in front of my own face. It should be a good compass for me in my discussions with my wife.

Any other comments or great questions?

BrandX

August 19, 2004

brandx,

I have been following your posts closely. What really caught my eye is you last one.

Where do you see yourself in 4 years????

From what I have read so far, I would say that the older you are going to get the more insecure your wife is going to be. You had mentioned she is older than you right? Your wife does not seem to have gotten over her divorce. I wonder how she would react to the idea that you might leave her which in a way may be causing her present insecurities.

You want to be the best parent, I don't believe you can do so by living in a loveless unhappy marriage. I believe in setting the love example for children. I don't think you will be able to show her that being in the marriage that you are in.

I also admire you for wanting to work on your marriage. Do you have a time frame in your mind? I think you could start from there and see where it goes. It is not an issue to be resolved within the next few days or even weeks. How long are you willing to sacrifice your happiness??????

These are all questions that only you can answer.

As far as being fair to the OW. You should cut all contacts with her no matter what a good friend and listener she might be. You need to give her the chance to meet someone else and go on with her life. As long as you are in contact she will never be able to do so. Don't hold her back, don't accept her waiting for you. Let her go and wish her all the happiness.

Once you become available again, you can seek her and see whether she is available and whether you two can have a good relationship.

Until then, the best of luck to you

August 20, 2004

brandx,

It does sound like you've already decided what you want but I respect you're wanting to make certain it's the right decision. You'll know when you are ready to take the next step. Your ability and willingness to explore and understand yourself and your relationship better is impressive. When you find someone that shares that same desire, you'll have a wonderful, lasting relationship... just make sure you're both single at the time . Best of luck!

August 20, 2004

Brandx,

I congratulate you on still wanting to work things out with your wife after all these years as your priority before taking further actions with the OW. I am going through a very similar case of yours. My husband is involved in an emotional affair with an OW except that I am the wife who is trying my best to make things work. If are interested in reading my threads, that may shread you some views in anticipating what may possibly happen in your forthcoming days. I would certainly love to hear from you, your thoughts in general and particularly your views to my husband position. Many thanks in advance.

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