Dating for Asian men in America

[bodhesatva]

So I find this topic interesting mostly because it touches on some interesting psychological issues.

 

The main point: dating for Asian men in America is pretty tough. This does not mean that every single Asian man is incapable of finding a girlfriend -- obviously that's not true, so a few guys coming in here saying "Well I'm Asian and I can find a date!" or "I'm a girl and I like Asian guys!" isn't going to change the general trend. Just like it's true that Chinese immigrants do indeed do better in school overall, but that doesn't mean every single Asian person is a math genius. There are always exceptions to a generality.

 

Here are some interesting statistics that show what's going on:

 

Interracial marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

You'll note that Asian women do just fine. They not only marry Asian men (obviously), but also white men and black men in fairly decent numbers. By contrast, Asian men are about 1/3 as likely to marry a white woman and 1/4th as likely to marry a black woman, compared to Asian women with white/black men. So right away, we can see that the problem isn't that people dislike Asians generally; clearly, Asian women are in demand.

 

Further, it doesn't seem likely that Asian culture prevents people from dating outside their race -- if that were the case, then surely Asian women would fall in to the same trap (since they're from the same culture), but that doesn't happen.

 

Lastly, it cannot be a socieconomic thing. That is, if Asian guys were very likely to be poor in the US, then you could say that women aren't less interested in Asian men, they're less interested in poor men, and that's the root of the issue. But that isn't the case; Asian men are actually even more economically successful than are White men, and certainly more successful than black men, who marry outside their race quite frequently despite high poverty rates.

 

So I ask anyone reading; what causes this disparity? I have my own ideas, but thought I'd get the ball rolling first and see what discussion takes place. Please keep racism out of this as much as possible; I know it's hard to discuss race and culture without crazy bigots showing up, but it would be nice to avoid it as much as possible.

Edited January 6, 2013 by bodhesatva

[bodhesatva]

this post here was made for men just like you, it isn't tough for Asian men

 

Are there places where Asian men are desired? | reesarch

 

Okay, two things. First, I'm a white guy. This isn't my problem, it's just a problem I've noticed and find interesting. I'm also interested in why Black women have such low rates of marriage as well, but hey, one topic at a time.

 

Second, the link you just gave is exactly the sort of anecdotal evidence I deliberately tried to head off at the pass. It's just a bunch of individual examples. "Well, I saw this other asian guy with a white girl, and also I'm asian and do pretty well!"

 

Yes, there are exceptions. There are also poor asians and asians who are bad at math, but when looking at the whole of society, the numbers do not lie; generally, asians do better economically, and generally, they do better in school, than do other races. Pointing out that you know a few poor asians does not change the general trend that asians are generally more professionally successful. Similarly, pointing out that you saw a few Asian guys with white girls does not change the general trend, either.

 

Yes, there are some Asian men finding dates and marrying outside their race. But there are a lot less of them doing that than there are Asian women, or, for that matter, Black men. Why is that?

Edited January 6, 2013 by bodhesatva

[Jacobchen]

So I find this topic interesting mostly because it touches on some interesting psychological issues.

 

The main point: dating for Asian men in America is pretty tough. This does not mean that every single Asian man is incapable of finding a girlfriend -- obviously that's not true, so a few guys coming in here saying "Well I'm Asian and I can find a date!" or "I'm a girl and I like Asian guys!" isn't going to change the general trend. Just like it's true that Chinese immigrants do indeed do better in school overall, but that doesn't mean every single Asian person is a math genius. There are always exceptions to a generality.

 

Here are some interesting statistics that show what's going on:

 

Interracial marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

You'll note that Asian women do just fine. They not only marry Asian men (obviously), but also white men and black men in fairly decent numbers. By contrast, Asian men are about 1/3 as likely to marry a white woman and 1/4th as likely to marry a black woman, compared to Asian women with white/black men. So right away, we can see that the problem isn't that people dislike Asians generally; clearly, Asian women are in demand.

 

Further, it doesn't seem likely that Asian culture prevents people from dating outside their race -- if that were the case, then surely Asian women would fall in to the same trap (since they're from the same culture), but that doesn't happen.

 

Lastly, it cannot be a socieconomic thing. That is, if Asian guys were very likely to be poor in the US, then you could say that women aren't less interested in Asian men, they're less interested in poor men, and that's the root of the issue. But that isn't the case; Asian men are actually even more economically successful than are White men, and certainly more successful than black men, who marry outside their race quite frequently despite high poverty rates.

 

So I ask anyone reading; what causes this disparity? I have my own ideas, but thought I'd get the ball rolling first and see what discussion takes place. Please keep racism out of this as much as possible; I know it's hard to discuss race and culture without crazy bigots showing up, but it would be nice to avoid it as much as possible.

 

Well let me ask you a question:

How do you observe Asian men to act in general?

Are they shy and timid or confident and bold?

We live in a society where men make the first moves and if Asian men are shy then that will be a problem. On the other hand, Asian women just have to be approached and it's ok for them to be shy and timid.

 

Lastly, you seem like a big numbers guy so let us observe this. Black men outnumber Asian men about 4 to one in the US (1.3 million Asian men; there are a lot more Asian women here than Asian men ask if you want to know why). So in reality, it isn't that Asian men rarely marry out; it's that Asian women marry out a lot and the total percentage of Asian men who marry out is actually higher than the total percentage of black men.

 

Look on the bottom of the page of wikipedia where it talks about foreign And native born Asian men. 44 percent of native born Asian men marry out vs 11 percent of foreign born. Just further proof that assimilation is the factor here.

[bodhesatva]

Well let me ask you a question:

How do you observe Asian men to act in general?

Are they shy and timid or confident and bold?

We live in a society where men make the first moves and if Asian men are shy then that will be a problem. On the other hand, Asian women just have to be approached and it's ok for them to be shy and timid.

 

I absolutely agree with this. I think we're looking at cultural norms that Asian men just fall outside of at the moment. In addition to what you've said, Asian men also tend to be shorter than both White and Black men, and height for men in our society is an extremely significant factor for mate selection.

 

In other words, I think Asian men just so happen to fall outside of what our society currently considers "handsome" for men. By contrast, as you said, being a girl who is more quiet and soft spoken, and who is shorter is completely acceptable.

 

Keep in mind that I am not saying that Asian men are inherently less "masculine." I'm saying that "masculinity" is mostly a social construct, and that our current definition of "masculine" often leaves them out. Buff, muscular, aggressive dudes were not always the rage -- just as women with big boobs weren't always in style, or how obesity used to be considered more attractive. It's just what culture currently values and considers "masculine."

 

Lastly, you seem like a big numbers guy so let us observe this. Black men outnumber Asian men about 4 to one in the US (1.3 million Asian men; there are a lot more Asian women here than Asian men ask if you want to know why). So in reality, it isn't that Asian men rarely marry out; it's that Asian women marry out a lot and the total percentage of Asian men who marry out is actually higher than the total percentage of black men.

 

Look on the bottom of the page of wikipedia where it talks about foreign And native born Asian men. 44 percent of native born Asian men marry out vs 11 percent of foreign born. Just further proof that assimilation is the factor here.

 

Absolutely agreed on all counts! To some extent, I left some of this out for brevity in my original post. I'll add this: if you note, black women are significantly less likely to marry outside their race than are black men, which suggests that black interracial marriage may indeed be a cultural thing. Unlike Asian men in comparison to Asian women, Black men do not see Black women marrying outside their race in the same way.

 

Lastly, for those who are interested; there are more Asian women in America than Asian men because Asian women are often abandoned and unwanted in Asia. Specifically, the one child act in China meant that many parents were willing to give their first born child up for adoption in the US if that one child happened to be a girl, so that they could then have a second child who might be a boy instead. It's pretty terrible, and I agree it plays a role as well, but cannot reasonably explain the full disparity.

Edited January 6, 2013 by bodhesatva

[Jacobchen]

I absolutely agree with this. I think we're looking at cultural norms that Asian men just fall outside of at the moment. In addition to what you've said, Asian men also tend to be shorter than both White and Black men, and height for men in our society is an extremely significant factor for mate selection.

 

In other words, I think Asian men just so happen to fall outside of what our society currently considers "handsome" for men. By contrast, as you said, being a girl who is more quiet and soft spoken, and who is shorter is completely acceptable.

 

Keep in mind that I am not saying that Asian men are inherently less "masculine." I'm saying that "masculinity" is mostly a social construct, and that our current definition of "masculine" often leaves them out. Buff, muscular, aggressive dudes were not always the rage -- just as women with big boobs weren't always in style, or how obesity used to be considered more attractive. It's just what culture currently values and considers "masculine."

 

Lastly, you seem like a big numbers guy so let us observe this. Black men outnumber Asian men about 4 to one in the US (1.3 million Asian men; there are a lot more Asian women here than Asian men ask if you want to know why). So in reality, it isn't that Asian men rarely marry out; it's that Asian women marry out a lot and the total percentage of Asian men who marry out is actually higher than the total percentage of black men.

 

 

 

Absolutely agreed on all counts! To some extent, I left some of this out for brevity in my original post. I'll add this: if you note, black women are significantly less likely to marry outside their race than are black men, which suggests that black interracial marriage may indeed be a cultural thing. Unlike Asian men in comparison to Asian women, Black men do not see Black women marrying outside their race in the same way.

 

Lastly, for those who are interested; there are more Asian women in America than Asian men because Asian women are often abandoned and unwanted in Asia. Specifically, the one child act in China meant that many parents were willing to give their first born child up for adoption in the US if that one child happened to be a girl, so that they could then have a second child who might be a boy instead. It's pretty terrible, and I agree it plays a role as well, but cannot reasonably explain the full disparity.

 

Well I think you're going a little way too far there...

Outside of height (btw Asian americans are getting a heck of a lot taller) Asian men are not considered "inferior" compared to other men, at least from a physical side.

 

And the reason why there is more Asian women is because of all the mail order brides that hce been brought to the states over all these years. The immigration quota wouldn't allow what you said to happen.

 

 

And my final conclusion:

Asian men who are at least average height and are confident can be just successful as white men (or according to you: Asian women) in interracial dating. Oh yea and they have to be assimilated.

Do you agree?

[starla33]

I don't know if its true because I recently saw at least 5 couples which were asian guys with hot blonde girls

[Jacobchen]

I don't know if its true because I recently saw at least 5 couples which were asian guys with hot blonde girls

 

Haha I completely agree, I see MANY Asian AMerican men dating interracially.

 

OP is really overplaying a last century issue here.

[bodhesatva]

That quoting process got garbled, so I won't quote!

 

Immigration quota does indeed allow for unequal gender adoption rates, although mail order brides would indeed create another issue that I hadn't considered.

 

Also I'll say this: other than height, I agree that there are no other substantial differences, but saying "other than height" is dismissing a very significant factor. Height has proven to be an extremely significant factor in how women perceive male attractiveness in the US (again, this isn't always the case in all cultures).

 

But yes, from a physical standpoint, that is the major concern. I definitely agree that an Asian male that conforms to cultural norms (tall, aggressive, confident) should do just as well as white and black men. The point is that they are more likely not to conform to those norms.

[bodhesatva]

I don't know if its true because I recently saw at least 5 couples which were asian guys with hot blonde girls

 

Haha I completely agree, I see MANY Asian AMerican men dating interracially.

 

OP is really overplaying a last century issue here.

 

Ack! I tried so hard to head this off at the pass. Here, I'll give one more example to show why this sort of argument shouldn't be made.

 

Black people in America are significantly poorer than are White Americans. That isn't a secret.

 

Recession widens the wealth gap by race - Jun. 21, 2012

 

Now, if you came back and said "I know some wealthy black people! Also, look at Kobe Bryant!" Would that change the general truth? Of course not. You need to look at large scale statistics to be able to analyze these issues objectively.

[Jacobchen]

That quoting process got garbled, so I won't quote!

 

Immigration quota does indeed allow for unequal gender adoption rates, although mail order brides would indeed create another issue that I hadn't considered.

 

Also I'll say this: other than height, I agree that there are no other substantial differences, but saying "other than height" is dismissing a very significant factor. Height has proven to be an extremely significant factor in how women perceive male attractiveness in the US (again, this isn't always the case in all cultures).

 

But yes, from a physical standpoint, that is the major concern. I definitely agree that an Asian male that conforms to cultural norms (tall, aggressive, confident) should do just as well as white and black men. The point is that they are more likely not to conform to those norms.

 

Well let me tell you this:

I have no idea how old you are but I'm a pretty young dude. And from what I have observed Asians Americans are a relatively new minority group in the US. And only my generation of Asian Americans have started to assimilate to American culture in large numbers (women care more about their partners culture than men do). Also, our parents didn't live on as good of a diet as we do, so only my generation have really grown to our full height potential. So this may be the reason why I see many Asian men around my age or somewhat older date interracially quite oftenly.

[Jacobchen]

Ack! I tried so hard to head this off at the pass. Here, I'll give one more example to show why this sort of argument shouldn't be made.

 

Black people in America are significantly poorer than are White Americans. That isn't a secret.

 

Recession widens the wealth gap by race - Jun. 21, 2012

 

Now, if you came back and said "I know some wealthy black people! Also, look at Kobe Bryant!" Would that change the general truth? Of course not. You need to look at large scale statistics to be able to analyze these issues objectively.

 

Well like I just posted- only my generation of Asian americans don't experience a gap in interracial dating between genders. Because we are becoming more assimilated and were getting taller.

[bodhesatva]

Well let me tell you this:

I have no idea how old you are but I'm a pretty young dude. And from what I have observed Asians Americans are a relatively new minority group in the US. And only my generation of Asian Americans have started to assimilate to American culture in large numbers (women care more about their partners culture than men do). Also, our parents didn't live on as good of a diet as we do, so only my generation have really grown to our full height potential. So this may be the reason why I see many Asian men around my age or somewhat older date interracially quite oftenly.

 

Yep, hopefully that is true and will help equalize the issue. It would be interesting to see a study done that controls for height to see if it is the only consideration or just one of the considerations.

 

Regardless, I would personally much rather see the cultural norms go away than to force others to adhere to those norms or be pariahs. I mean, being a tall male in this day and age is practically irrelevant. Unless you plan to be a basketball player, being tall doesn't actually help you be a better doctor or a better lawyer or a better accountant. If we lived in 4000 BC when we were still hunting wild, dangerous animals, I could see why height would be significant, but that isn't today and these cultural norms really don't have a place anymore.

 

Of course, expecting cultural norms like this to simply go away is a fool's errand. I might as well also wish that everyone instantly stop being sexist and start treating everyone with equal respect and dignity.

[Jacobchen]

Yep, hopefully that is true and will help equalize the issue. It would be interesting to see a study done that controls for height to see if it is the only consideration or just one of the considerations.

 

Regardless, I would personally much rather see the cultural norms go away than to force others to adhere to those norms or be pariahs. I mean, being a tall male in this day and age is practically irrelevant. Unless you plan to be a basketball player, being tall doesn't actually help you be a better doctor or a better lawyer or a better accountant. If we lived in 4000 BC when we were still hunting wild, dangerous animals, I could see why height would be significant, but that isn't today and these cultural norms really don't have a place anymore.

 

Of course, expecting cultural norms like this to simply go away is a fool's errand. I might as well also wish that everyone instantly stop being sexist and start treating everyone with equal respect and dignity.

 

Well look go search up a study done by OKcupid and the messages you get according to your race. Height were the same amongst all men in the study, and as a result Asian men actually got more replies than black men. Albeit white men still finished better than everybody else, but this just proves that as long as Asian men have the confidence in real life (not online dating) like black men do; they can have as much success as black men.

[jcrew11]

Marriage usually comes down to religion. Christians want to end up with Christians. Jews want to marry Jews. Hindus want to marry Hindus, etc.

 

The past 10 years or so, America has become more Atheist/Agnostic so women are no longer culturally constrained to marry white Christian men. But Asians have also become more westernized and willing to adapt to western culture and christian religion.

 

Lutherans in Minnesota are the most liberal Christians, and that is why they are more open to dating Black and Asian men.

[Jacobchen]

Yep, hopefully that is true and will help equalize the issue. It would be interesting to see a study done that controls for height to see if it is the only consideration or just one of the considerations.

 

 

Well I definitely think it's the only PHYSICAL problem. However, like I said, culture can get in the way too.

Dont you agree that a tall, confident, and assimilated Asian man can be just as successful as black and white men in interracial dating in REAL LIFE?

[Zed]

There is a racial disparity between white men/asian women and asian men and white women, but if you look at the stats from your wki link--black men married to white women has only a difference of 171. That is a small statistical difference when you consider that Blacks make up a larger percentage of the minority population at 12% compared to 5% for Asians. That indicates that population size has more to do with why white women marrying Black men in slightly larger numbers then Asian men. And also explain that statistically as noted in the article "White Americans were statistically the least likely to wed interracially, though in absolute terms they were involved in interracial marriages more than any other racial group due to their demographic majority. 2.1% of married White women and 2.3% of married White men had a non-White spouse. 1.0% of all married White men were married to an Asian American woman, and 1.0% of married White women were married to a man classified as "other". " In fact pew research has noted that as of 2010 census info "[among] all newlyweds in 2010, 9% of whites, 17% of blacks,26% of Hispanics and 28% of Asians married out." If anything, your beef should bewith Hispanic males, who identify as white. They are far more likely to marry a White women, then the supposed sexual threat that Black men are taking all the white women from Asian guys. As noted before, compared to the size of the Black population, marriage and relationships with White women are not nearly as huge as the media makes it out to be. And of course Back women marrying other races, is infinitesimally smaller then Asian men--who marry out compared to Black women at a dizzying 30-50% rate.

 

In addition, this site Interracial Dating & Marriage : Asian-Nation :: Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues clearly shows that overall, Asian sprefer other Asians, with Whites, from both genders, as their preferred second choice. What is interesting is that Indian American men are far more likely to date out and marry a White women then Indian American women. So that agony brigade of Indian Men pining for white women and believing that Black men are c*ck blocking them is pathetic and highly exaggerated. Also Asian Black marriages and pairings are the rarest pairing of all. From the wiki article, Black men/Asian women--39 and Black women/Asian women 9 compared to White/Asian from both genders. This illustrates that despite all the complaining, both genders, heavily learn white and/or Asian. Lastly, there is recent shifting trend for some Asian groups in which, there are more Asians marrying each other http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/04/16/the-real-reason-why-asian-americans-are-outmarrying-less/because now there is a far greater selection of Asians and the fact that Asian monitories are the fasting growing minority group with Hispanics bringing up the rear

 

So there is no real crisis for Asian guys when you look at the numbers and actually go out your house and observe. Asians men overall are doing just fine.

[Jacobchen]

There is a racial disparity between white men/asian women and asian men and white women, but if you look at the stats from your wki link--black men married to white women has only a difference of 171. That is a small statistical difference when you consider that Blacks make up a larger percentage of the minority population at 12% compared to 5% for Asians. That indicates that population size has more to do with why white women marrying Black men in slightly larger numbers then Asian men. And also explain that statistically as noted in the article "White Americans were statistically the least likely to wed interracially, though in absolute terms they were involved in interracial marriages more than any other racial group due to their demographic majority. 2.1% of married White women and 2.3% of married White men had a non-White spouse. 1.0% of all married White men were married to an Asian American woman, and 1.0% of married White women were married to a man classified as "other". " In fact pew research has noted that as of 2010 census info "[among] all newlyweds in 2010, 9% of whites, 17% of blacks,26% of Hispanics and 28% of Asians married out." If anything, your beef should bewith Hispanic males, who identify as white. They are far more likely to marry a White women, then the supposed sexual threat that Black men are taking all the white women from Asian guys. As noted before, compared to the size of the Black population, marriage and relationships with White women are not nearly as huge as the media makes it out to be. And of course Back women marrying other races, is infinitesimally smaller then Asian men--who marry out compared to Black women at a dizzying 30-50% rate.

 

In addition, this site Interracial Dating & Marriage : Asian-Nation :: Asian American History, Demographics, & Issues clearly shows that overall, Asian sprefer other Asians, with Whites, from both genders, as their preferred second choice. What is interesting is that Indian American men are far more likely to date out and marry a White women then Indian American women. So that agony brigade of Indian Men pining for white women and believing that Black men are c*ck blocking them is pathetic and highly exaggerated. Also Asian Black marriages and pairings are the rarest pairing of all. From the wiki article, Black men/Asian women--39 and Black women/Asian women 9 compared to White/Asian from both genders. This illustrates that despite all the complaining, both genders, heavily learn white and/or Asian. Lastly, there is recent shifting trend for some Asian groups in which, there are more Asians marrying each other http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2012/04/16/the-real-reason-why-asian-americans-are-outmarrying-less/because now there is a far greater selection of Asians and the fact that Asian monitories are the fasting growing minority group with Hispanics bringing up the rear

 

So there is no real crisis for Asian guys when you look at the numbers and actually go out your house and observe. Asians men overall are doing just fine.

 

Thanks for the input bro!

Ya that's what I was trying to say. The population of black men GREATLY outnumbers Asian men. As a result, there are more black men with white women than Asian men and white women. But in ratios to their respective racial population, Asian men marry white women more often.

Asian men are doing just fine in the US, this discussion needs to die it's 2013

[bodhesatva]

There is a racial disparity between white men/asian women and asian men and white women, but if you look at the stats from your wki link--black men married to white women has only a difference of 171. That is a small statistical difference when you consider that Blacks make up a larger percentage of the minority population at 12% compared to 5% for Asians. That indicates that population size has more to do with why white women marrying Black men in slightly larger numbers then Asian men. And also explain that statistically as noted in the article "White Americans were statistically the least likely to wed interracially, though in absolute terms they were involved in interracial marriages more than any other racial group due to their demographic majority. 2.1% of married White women and 2.3% of married White men had a non-White spouse. 1.0% of all married White men were married to an Asian American woman, and 1.0% of married White women were married to a man classified as "other". " In fact pew research has noted that as of 2010 census info "[among] all newlyweds in 2010, 9% of whites, 17% of blacks,26% of Hispanics and 28% of Asians married out." If anything, your beef should bewith Hispanic males, who identify as white. They are far more likely to marry a White women, then the supposed sexual threat that Black men are taking all the white women from Asian guys. As noted before, compared to the size of the Black population, marriage and relationships with White women are not nearly as huge as the media makes it out to be. And of course Back women marrying other races, is infinitesimally smaller then Asian men--who marry out compared to Black women at a dizzying 30-50% rate.

 

Absolutely, I agree with all of this, but I do think there are some considerations you haven't factored in. You've noted that black people are less likely to marry outside their race (proportionally, if not absolutely) than are Asian people. That's true, and important to note.

 

But I think the intraracial (As in, comparing within the same race) comparisons were the most important, though, and that's why I focused on those. As another example outside the Asian one, consider the black marriage numbers you just quoted. As you yourself noticed, black women are much less likely to marry outside the race than black men are. In fact, it's almost exactly the same as the Asian statistics, but in reverse; where Asian men were 1/3 as likely to marry a white person as an Asian woman was, a Black woman is 1/4 as likely to marry a white person as a Black man is. In fact, Black women are the single group least likely to get married in the US.

 

And that is, again, important to note. Why does that happen? Why are black women so much less likely to be married than black men? I want to emphasize again that I do not think it's because Black women (and Asian men) are ugly or bad partners in general. I personally believe it's because current cultural norms do not favor quieter, less aggressive men (as Asians are often perceived to be) or loud, aggressive women (As Black women are often perceived to be).

 

Again, I am not suggesting these cultural norms are fair or right, I am just suggesting they exist. It's sort of like saying racism exists; it doesn't mean I endorse racism, I'm just trying to understand it. Also, as Jenoba has repeatedly mentioned, this wouldn't apply in all cases. Certainly a tall, confident, aggressive Asian male would do just fine, just as many Black women find great husbands, too. There are always exceptions to general trends in society.

Edited January 6, 2013 by bodhesatva

[bodhesatva]

I will introduce another aspect, food for though.

 

Even though most women MAY NOT openly date a Black man due to fear from society, a lot of Black men can live with the fact they will be sought after for one night stands and wild flings. So in reality, even though long term relationship wise Black men may not fare as well as some other minorities, in terms of short term relationships, lets just say I wish I was Black.

 

You literally have a line stretching for thousands of miles of White women willing to sleep with a guy who is Black. I don't think any other minority or race of men enjoy this kind of treatment from women.

 

 

Yeah, this strikes me as conspiracy talk without any real evidence to back it up. "All white women want black men, they're just too scared by society to admit it!"

 

I'm going to have a tough time disproving that, since by your own admission it's apparently a secret that all white women keep, the only "evidence" being secret one night stands and flings.

 

Here is a study showing that for online dating (which includes casual sexual encounters), black men do not do better than white men or asian men. I mean, it's not a comprehensive survey, but it's the best we're going to get, and it does not support your position at all.

 

This isn't to say that some white women don't love black men. I'm sure there are. It just isn't some widespread phenomena like you make it out to be. White men, as usual in our society, still have cultural norms on their side. But if possible, I'd rather get back on track. This isn't an interracial porn fetish thread.

Edited January 6, 2013 by bodhesatva

[Zed]

Absolutely, I agree with all of this, but I do think there are some considerations you haven't factored in. You've noted that black people are less likely to marry outside their race (proportionally, if not absolutely) than are Asian people. That's true, and important to note.

 

But I think the intraracial (As in, comparing within the same race) comparisons were the most important, though, and that's why I focused on those. As another example outside the Asian one, consider the black marriage numbers you just quoted. As you yourself noticed, black women are much less likely to marry outside the race than black men are. In fact, it's almost exactly the same as the Asian statistics, but in reverse; where Asian men were 1/3 as likely to marry a white person as an Asian woman was, a Black woman is 1/4 as likely to marry a white person as a Black man is. In fact, Black women are the single group least likely to get married in the US.

 

And that is, again, important to note. Why does that happen? Why are black women so much less likely to be married than black men? I want to emphasize again that I do not think it's because Black women (and Asian men) are ugly or bad partners in general. I personally believe it's because current cultural norms do not favor quieter, less aggressive men (as Asians are often perceived to be) or loud, aggressive women (As Black women are often perceived to be).

 

Again, I am not suggesting these cultural norms are fair or right, I am just suggesting they exist. It's sort of like saying racism exists; it doesn't mean I endorse racism, I'm just trying to understand it. Also, as Jenoba has repeatedly mentioned, this wouldn't apply in all cases. Certainly a tall, confident, aggressive Asian male would do just fine, just as many Black women find great husbands, too. There are always exceptions to general trends in society.

 

The answer is simple. There is a global preference for White/Caucasian. This cultural phenomenon is not going to go way any time soon, since its strongly embedded in all cultures, despite some groups not being colonized by Europeans. Images in all media do all the good will work that show that White skin and features is the ultimate beauty status symbol. A simple look at skin whitening creams in places such as Asia,India (the biggest producers of this product), Africa, and Latin America attest to a strong preference for white skin and this is despite the proposed theory that White skin was prized because it showed that those who had paler skin signifiedwealth and status because they did not have to toil in the fields.

 

And since Womenare largely valued for how they look, the closer to the global ideal a woman is,the easier it is to be prized or deemed worthy. Black skin is seen as a contrast or othering mechanism and black features have been consistently denigrated and viewed as animalistic. This perception is difficult to dislodge even when you have a stunning array of evidence to the contrary because humans are not that creative and dislike deviating from the norm. It takes a lot of time to de-conditionand and change prevailing norms-which often depict White skin as the ultimate ideal. Therefore, of course Blacks are not going to be first or second choice and unmixed Black women in particular don't fare well in this social climate. Obvious exceptions duly noted. What has helped Black women was that because they were not seen as part of the accepted culture, it was easier to confine their attention to men who found them attractive--namely Black men. Now that the Black community is more diffuse and less cohesive, Blacks obtaining greater education and wealth,and with miscengation laws (loving 1967) removed, those two barriers have increased some interracial pairings from both genders, but once again, not nearly as much as people like to believe. Since Black men are fetished more for their perceived masculinity(see myths such as Mandingo and the recent movie Django Unchained) then how they look, it is easy to see why they out pace Black women 10 to 1 for interracial. All in all, Asians from both genders have Blacks beat threefold for their strong preference when they date out for white people.

[Zed]

I will introduce another aspect, food for though.

 

Even though most women MAY NOT openly date a Black man due to fear from society, a lot of Black men can live with the fact they will be sought after for one night stands and wild flings. So in reality, even though long term relationship wise Black men may not fare as well as some other minorities, in terms of short term relationships, lets just say I wish I was Black.

 

You literally have a line stretching for thousands of miles of White women willing to sleep with a guy who is Black. I don't think any other minority or race of men enjoy this kind of treatment from women.

 

This suggestion is based on a twisted and pathetic form of sexual jealousy. D*ck measuring aside, sure you have instances of non-Blacks who sleep around with Black people under the cover of darkness, but it is not nearly as wide spread as your fevered imagination like it to be. Unless of course you wish this kind of sick form of fetish should be happening to Indian guys as well.

[bodhesatva]

I really was afraid this would become a typical "black men have it easy!" thread.

 

Unless you can provide evidence for this, I'd rather get back on the central topic. I absolutely agree that online studies are not the best -- but they're also the only thing we have, as far as I can see, they don't really support your position.

[Jacobchen]

I really was afraid this would become a typical "black men have it easy!" thread.

 

Unless you can provide evidence for this, I'd rather get back on the central topic. I absolutely agree that online studies are not the best -- but they're also the only thing we have, as far as I can see, they don't really support your position.

 

Correct they are the best we have...

And to be honest the reason black men do so much better than other ethnic groups is because they are more confident you know? They have "swagger" and aren't afraid to talk to women like most Asian and Indian men are.