Another point of view from a WS's

[veryhappy]

fMOW.

 

I'm sorry for your loss. Your pain is very evident and you will grieve a long time.

 

Firstof all, you acted very strongly to make a decision wihout being forced into it, and stick to it. Many MM string along two women. You didn't. You decided to be as fair and honest and decent as you could. Give yourself credit for it.

 

When you decided to stay with your W, you had your reasons. Those reasons are still there, the history, the family. Your OW did the right thing to not contact you when she knew she was dying. You wouldn't have been able to make your marriage work so well, right? As are painful, and that's the pain of it. We can't have both people, and death is part of it.

 

Don't make any changes. Give yourself a year to grieve. It makes little sense to lose your family now. Even if you loved the OW more, you chose your W. Remember that. You had your reasons.

 

The only thing I feel bad for is that you had told her you were never in love with her. Maybe that made it easier for her to move on. Who knows? Be gentle with yourself, and grieve.

 

 

Edit to add about my story: exMM has said he believes I'm the woman he loved the most and he'll love the most and mumbled some stupidty about afterlife. He might be currently be having the best time ever in his M. Those romantic, fluffy feelings mean nothing without making it real. ExMM is very committed to staying married, and I imagine so were you. At some point you need to see that the past is the past, and past you had reasons to behave the way he did. I hope you get in touch with that certainty of wanting your M, because pining after a dead dream(literally) is no way to live the rest of your life.

Edited January 7, 2013 by cutedragon

[bentnotbroken]

Cutedragon how is that approach fair to his wife?

 

Why should she be settled for because his first choice is dead? I can't see that situation giving her a fulfilling marriage. Doesn't she deserve that?

 

 

She doesn't..but she deserves to be with someone who really wants to be with her. She now according to the OP is living in a sham marriage. Best to let the sham go.

[veryhappy]

Cutedragon how is that approach fair to his wife?

 

Why should she be settled for because his first choice is dead? I can't see that situation giving her a fulfilling marriage. Doesn't she deserve that?

 

My point was that his choice was to stay married, and he should keep that. No reason to lose that because he's greiving the loss of the OW. He had chosen the W.

[waterwoman]

I do agree that you need to grieve. Nothing is totally clear while you are grieving.

 

May I just ask why you didn't confide and talk to you wife as you did with the OW?

.

[road]

For everyone else I thank for the replies and even the tough love. I know I admit the affair is what caused the separation between me and my OW. But I feel guilty about the way we ended and that after 25years working side by side I couldn't share part of her last days.

 

 

It has always been your choices. Still is.

 

You danced now you have the nerve to complain that the band has to be paid.

 

You did not value your friendship. That is why you risked it and lost it by your choice to have an affair with her.

 

It's not about that a WS needs to wish their OW is dead for penance.

 

It's about knowing the need for NC for life between AP's. You should of not have found out OW died. OW was a cheater. NC should of prevented you from finding out if she still thought what she did was ok, or she went to IC and now realized having an affair was wrong.

 

With NC the book on her needed to be closed. Doe not matter. What matter is what did you learn and how did you change.

 

It appears not enough on either account.

 

Kind of late to ask was your OW married?

Edited January 7, 2013 by road

[nofool4u]

Notanother

 

I am fWS too. And I can promise you that the overwhelmingly vast majority of BW who post here would never wish for the OW to die.

 

Unless said OW is a bunny boiler, I think you are correct. Most of us, I believe, would not want that at all. I do think most of us would want people engaging in affairs to at least reap the consequences of their actions and be in more pain than the ones they hurt. Nothing wrong with that at all and that in no way is a BS being in a "fog".

 

 

It is also accepted that WS can have feelings for the AP

 

 

Which is why I'll never stick around with someone that has cheated, because I realize they will have feelings for their AP and even if they decided to move on, they will have fond memories of someone they betrayed their spouse/partner with. Why put up with that?

[anne1707]

Unless said OW is a bunny boiler, I think you are correct. Most of us, I believe, would not want that at all. I do think most of us would want people engaging in affairs to at least reap the consequences of their actions and be in more pain than the ones they hurt. Nothing wrong with that at all and that in no way is a BS being in a "fog".

 

Totally understandable but sadly generally not the case

 

 

 

Which is why I'll never stick around with someone that has cheated, because I realize they will have feelings for their AP and even if they decided to move on, they will have fond memories of someone they betrayed their spouse/partner with. Why put up with that?

 

But this is definitely not always the case. fWS do not always carry on having fond memories of the AP. They can genuinely move on and have a fully reconciled and happy marriage if both husband and wife put in the hard work and want it enough

[notanother1]

Wow. First I ought to say that not everybody works in buildings and work is different for everybody so it was not actually separate from living. I watched my OW dig holes to go to the bathroom so that is not some kind of romantic dream right there. And yes I chose my wife but it was the wrong choice. Some of you had A's and are sorry now and you say the A was the wrong choice. People choose things like marriage and jobs and homes and sometimes they don't pick what they really want because they think they it makes them a bad person. I was thinking that when I sent my OW away. That it was the right thing to do not because I wanted that. It was a big mistake and not because she died. But when she died I finally knew why it was a mistake. I am sad and ashamed of doing that.

 

Someone says I have to REVILE her. And you say the A makes her a bad person but I watched her save hundreds of lives. We saved them together and this A wipes all that away? She sacrificed her health for other people's and the A wipes that away? I am sorry for you if you think that. You are in a lot of pain yourself but you don't get to wipe away a person's life because they made a mistake. You think it's the biggest mistake someone can make but it's not.

 

This board helps me figure out things definitely. When I started NC with my OW it was because I was thinking like these people and I didn't even know it. When I see ugly thoughts like that right in front of me it shows me how small my heart was when I pushed her away from me. It is my fault I acted like a coward and hurt everybody. I wasn't scared of losing my W but I was scared of being a bad person.Anybody who reads this can read different stories and some of you will still figure out a way to say I chose my wife and my OW was a bad person and ignoring her was right. But I'm sorry I can't read anymore because it makes me feel ugly too just to be here.

[sweet_pea]

On the topic of being a bad person:

 

The OW voluntarily involved herself with a married man.

 

She helped you deceive your wife & family.

 

How exactly is she a good person, again?

 

I hate to be mean, I know you're in pain, and I am sorry for your loss, but the OW in question was not a saint. She may not be an evil, awful person, but she was not great either.

 

Regardless of her job and that she helped save many lives, the fact that she allowed herself to become involved with you, shows (in my opinion) that she had a character flaw.

[woinlove]

notanother1, I don't see the usefulness of thinking in terms of good and bad people. More useful to think in terms of good and bad behavior. And the most important thing is what you think of yourself and your own behavior. I find the deception in affairs to be a bad way of treating others, the opposite of good and kind behavior toward others. I would not be able to stay in an M while continuing to deceive my spouse. I think it shows a lack of respect and removes the possibility of the other spouse making an informed decision based on reality. You don't seem to have much in your heart for your W, so why do you stay?

 

Your view of how you like to treat others may differ. What matters is what you think of your own behavior and choices and if you are not happy with them, what you plan to do about it.

[waterwoman]

Well I am just very sorry for both of you. You for the pain you are in now and your wife for the pain you are going to inflict on her.

[heartinlove]

Wow. First I ought to say that not everybody works in buildings and work is different for everybody so it was not actually separate from living. I watched my OW dig holes to go to the bathroom so that is not some kind of romantic dream right there. And yes I chose my wife but it was the wrong choice. Some of you had A's and are sorry now and you say the A was the wrong choice. People choose things like marriage and jobs and homes and sometimes they don't pick what they really want because they think they it makes them a bad person. I was thinking that when I sent my OW away. That it was the right thing to do not because I wanted that. It was a big mistake and not because she died. But when she died I finally knew why it was a mistake. I am sad and ashamed of doing that.

 

Someone says I have to REVILE her. And you say the A makes her a bad person but I watched her save hundreds of lives. We saved them together and this A wipes all that away? She sacrificed her health for other people's and the A wipes that away? I am sorry for you if you think that. You are in a lot of pain yourself but you don't get to wipe away a person's life because they made a mistake. You think it's the biggest mistake someone can make but it's not.

 

This board helps me figure out things definitely. When I started NC with my OW it was because I was thinking like these people and I didn't even know it. When I see ugly thoughts like that right in front of me it shows me how small my heart was when I pushed her away from me. It is my fault I acted like a coward and hurt everybody. I wasn't scared of losing my W but I was scared of being a bad person.Anybody who reads this can read different stories and some of you will still figure out a way to say I chose my wife and my OW was a bad person and ignoring her was right. But I'm sorry I can't read anymore because it makes me feel ugly too just to be here.

 

You sound like youre in a lot of pain and grief. I agree with you that you should not be here on this board especially since you are in a vulnerable place.

 

There are way too many people on this board that believe that just because the OW had an affair she is a bad person and that cancels out everything about her. And if you speak kindly of your OW you'll get crucified for talking nicely about her as if she is a actually a real human being and not just an OW. And then the usual comments of because you are saying nice things about the OW somehow you dont care about your wife at all. Theres no understanding of the complexity of relationships or how someone can have feelings for more than one person at a time.

 

50-60% of people are involved with affairs. Does that mean 50-60% of all people are bad people?

 

I do think that in your heart you know it was not the right thing to do to tell your OW that you were never in love with her and didn't want to see her again and that is what you are struggling with right now because you will never have the opportunity to tell her differently. Forgive yourself. When we know better, we do better.

 

Theres so much support for WS's to sever ties with OW's in a harsh way and without the truth, as if somehow they are less than human beings and deserve to be punished in that way because they had an affair. You know you could have simply said you needed to work on your marriage and told her the truth about how you felt. I am sorry you fell into that line of thinking and now you are facing the pain of that.

 

If it helps, your ow, probably knew deep down that you were just saying what you needed to say to try to save your marriage. She may have known that you really didn't feel what you said.

 

The MM in my situation after DD called me to say exactly what you said. He never wanted to talk to me again. I was devastated beyond measure. He was following what his church leaders told him to say, because thats the protocol to say to an OW. Its heartless and wrong. Its not what he felt. He ended up calling me weeks later to apologize profusely and felt that was one of the worst things he could have ever done. I forgave him, because i understood the pressure he was under.

 

But this is the part I want to say to you. Before he called, I knew he just said what he needed to because of the pressure. I knew the truth that he loved me. Perhaps your OW knew the truth too.

 

Either way forgive yourself and use this to grow in your life.

 

I also do think you need to tell your wife the truth.

 

And for anyone who says what about the wife. I don't advocate affairs and I know as well as anyone how painful they are. But to treat WS's and OW's as somehow subhuman and to only define them by the fact that they had an affair is just simply wrong.

[sungirl]

I have found that the sad thing about this problem is that -

 

It's sad when someone dies, but if they have been a bad person, as I believe the OW was/is, you somehow can't be as sad or say too many good things about them when they are gone.

 

This has happened with many people I have known - It's too bad, but........

 

The OP does really deserve the guilt, etc.

 

That's what happens in life when you do bad things to hurt other people. Consequences.

 

Suck it up.

[ComingInHot]

Notanother1;

This sentence stands out, " And yes I chose my wife but it was the wrong choice." And you have repeated ( I think) more than once.

 

Be VERY careful about the above statement. Be VERY certain that this is truly what is in your heart. Because if it IS the truth then what you are saying is that a FEW months in an open honest relationship with this OW that turns into a few months of caring for the dying OW is worth more than ALL the years with your Wife.

 

If that is true, then Holy Balls Man! Let your Wife go. She SO deserves MORE than what you have, are and will Give her! I can't help thinking that YOU have stolen Way more from your wife than just the duration of your affair but the, what is it, 30+ years she devoted to you and supported you and prayed for your safety (I imagine) while you were serving your country.

 

Listen, I truly am sorry that you lost someone you cared for. It becomes romanticized, like a romantic tragedy when there is No fallout for actions taken by the Betrayer to realize the true victim/s in this Affair ie, your wife.

 

Grieve your loss, then take a good hard look when the emotions settle and the tears dry. What will you do? Sounds like you may have a few good years left in ya. What "good" are you going to do WITH those years?

[Decorative]

 

She was not perfect, we know that now, but you should at least respect that you don't know her or her doing in other areas... and you should ALWAYS have respect for someone who has passed away.

 

Not related to the affair at all- but just because a person has passed doesn't mean they get respect.

 

Serial killers executed on death row deserve respect simply because they pass away?

 

I think not. Respect is earned.

 

I have no idea what the OW was like outside of her poor choice in the affair. Hopefully she made a lot of good choices, and the affair was an incident, not a pattern of bad behavior. I have no idea if this OW is worthy of respect or not. I sure hope so. I hope she didn't make a pattern of this behavior. I hope when the affair ended she was truly sorry, and vowed never to harm another person again.

 

But I don't understand the idea that everyone should have respect simply by virtue of being dead?

Edited January 10, 2013 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[veryhappy]

Wow. First I ought to say that not everybody works in buildings and work is different for everybody so it was not actually separate from living. I watched my OW dig holes to go to the bathroom so that is not some kind of romantic dream right there. And yes I chose my wife but it was the wrong choice. Some of you had A's and are sorry now and you say the A was the wrong choice. People choose things like marriage and jobs and homes and sometimes they don't pick what they really want because they think they it makes them a bad person. I was thinking that when I sent my OW away. That it was the right thing to do not because I wanted that. It was a big mistake and not because she died. But when she died I finally knew why it was a mistake. I am sad and ashamed of doing that.

 

Someone says I have to REVILE her. And you say the A makes her a bad person but I watched her save hundreds of lives. We saved them together and this A wipes all that away? She sacrificed her health for other people's and the A wipes that away? I am sorry for you if you think that. You are in a lot of pain yourself but you don't get to wipe away a person's life because they made a mistake. You think it's the biggest mistake someone can make but it's not.

 

This board helps me figure out things definitely. When I started NC with my OW it was because I was thinking like these people and I didn't even know it. When I see ugly thoughts like that right in front of me it shows me how small my heart was when I pushed her away from me. It is my fault I acted like a coward and hurt everybody. I wasn't scared of losing my W but I was scared of being a bad person.Anybody who reads this can read different stories and some of you will still figure out a way to say I chose my wife and my OW was a bad person and ignoring her was right. But I'm sorry I can't read anymore because it makes me feel ugly too just to be here.

 

 

Moral constructs are powerful and effective. Have some understanding for the fact that you chose to do what looked like the right thing. Sometimes life puts us in places where we have no real options. When 90% people in a situation choose something, there's more to it than the particular people and their freedom of choice. Sometimes we realize the road had already been marked for us long before we would have suspected. For most affairs, the end is written at the very beginning.

 

As a fOW, I would ask you to please reconsider making any decisions right now. If she were able to talk to you, she might say that you getting a divorce is very saddening because it makes the fact that you weren't together and her pain not to be with you seem pointless.

 

Take your time to heal and let things settle.

[Decorative]

Maybe this is a moral thing for me but dead people can't defend their selves or solve any issue they may have created in the past, they are dead and they should be let to rest... this is my believe. I also don't know the OW in this thread but you can't generalize that because she had a poor choice in the affair she is a bad person and no one will have any good to say about her like sunygirl said... that is really over the top.

 

I agree there is not enough information to make a judgment on the totality of the OW's life. And it is unfair to call her a bad person in every way, because we don't know.

 

I think you should not have told the poster she needed to be medicated. She has a different point of view than you do, but one that does not require medication.

 

That being said- I don't see how it falls into a moral argument- that respect is given when a person cannot defend themselves because they are deceased . Does Hitler need to defend himself? How about Ted Bundy? We can still make judgments on their behavior while they were alive, and I don't see why doing so is a function of being less than moral.

[sungirl]

I didn't mean to say the OW never was a good person in her life.

 

I'm just saying that I believe in karma, and that you get what you give.

 

I'm sorry for people's families when they die, but you can't erase the damaging things they have done to others.

 

I don't feel any sympathy for the OP because he made his bed.......

 

I really do feel for his wife though, because she is the innocent in all this and deserves good things for her life from here on.

 

You may think I need medication, but I don't think so.

[woinlove]

notanother1, I've now gone back and read more of your posts in this thread. It seems you lied to the OW and to your W, maybe to others as well, but almost certainly to yourself too. I hope you are in counselling to sort this out, because lying to yourself causes a lot of confusion and prevents you from feeling happy no matter what you do. It will likely take some time to recover the truth for yourself, but would be time well spent, I think.

[heartinlove]

Has anyone ever considered the possibility that the OW faked her death in order to get away from the OP?

 

OP, why are you having an emotional affair with a dead woman?

 

And its a mystery why very few WS's post here or if they do leave soon after. The sensitivity is overwhelming.

[ampersand]

Hi na1.

 

Sorry to hear your story. I see while I was gone LS has rolled out its traditional welcome. At least it took a couple pages of helpful feedback first. And kudos to some of the even more vitriolic posters to sitting this one out. You know who you are.

 

I have experienced the sudden death of the woman I loved and the recent NC with the OW I love/loved and they were painful enough when separated by 10 years. I can't imagine the effect of them together, let alone having to grieve them in secret. I feel your pain.

 

Know that in both cases, the trauma led me to romanticize what I had. In the first case, it was a girlfriend with whom i was questioning my relationship. It was likely to have ended in the not too distant future. With her death, she became my soulmate, the one I could never replace. I try and remind myself how that perspective was changed as I deal with my current situation.

 

I dont question your feelings for the OW. I think she knew yours as well. NC is the only way to set each other free from the affair and to maintain it is a deeper love you showed each other.

 

I wholeheartedly agree that you should not take any rash action to end your marriage in this state. As for telling your wife I am myself undecided on this but I think you should wait if possible until you have a better sense of whether you want to save it. On the other hand, you could share your grief over the loss of a friend with her without sharing the affair with her. This may be a way to rekindle some intimacy and connection as well as help you grieve.

[Sauron]

If you actually loved her more, you would have acted on it appropriately during her lifetime.

 

Gently, I believe your grief, the secret keeping of your affair, and a lack of therapy to deal with both of those is leading you into a bad place of thought.

 

You should tell your wife about your affair, your AP's death, and seek therapy.

 

What's done is done, how about just man up and move on, someone you cared about died, just go through the greiving process and move on. Therapy is a waste of time in my opinion for all but the truly mentally ill.

[cocorico]

NA1, I am sorry for your loss, and sorry that you were permanently parted in such a regrettable way.

 

When we make decisions, unless we are acting under duress against our better judgment, we choose what we genuinely believe at the time to be best. When you chose your BW at the time, you believed that was the best choice. That it appears with hindsight not to be so does not undo the authenticity of that choice for you at the time you made it. You might look back on the man who made it with distaste or regret, and wish the decision unmade, but that indicates that you are no longer the man who made that choice. You have grown and changed, and it seems that the loss of your lover has left a legacy in your learning.

 

Mourn the loss of your friend, allow yourself to grieve, and when the time is right, move on in whatever direction feels best for you at the time, with or without your BW.

 

I hope you can find your peace.

[woinlove]

On the other hand, you could share your grief over the loss of a friend with her without sharing the affair with her. This may be a way to rekindle some intimacy and connection as well as help you grieve.

 

I think it depends on what kind of person notanother1 is and how good he is at lying. I know I could never tell a fake story about a "friend" to my spouse in a false attempt at intimacy. Maybe notanother1 can pull it off if he is a skilled liar, but I would ask him to look at whether he can be truly happy being that kind of false person. I think much more is to be gained by living authentically and building true intimacy by sharing truths.

 

But, as I said above, notanother1 really has to first be honest with himself. Without that, I don't think it is possible to be honest with others - as he has seen by example with his behavior with the OW and his W.

[ampersand]

Woinlove, I see your point. I think true intimacy requires full honesty. On the other hand, to tell everything now in his current state might lead him to be rash and not fight for his marriage, which he might later regret. I do very much agree with the need to be honest with yourself first, and I think it is very hard to do that so close to the event.

 

Another discussion mentioned the experts being split on tell or no-tell, with the latter being of the "do less harm" justification in the case of a truly repentant WS. I can see some merit to that argument but I think I am increasingly convinced (by your post and others) the intimacy can't really be rebuilt with such a secret.

 

NA1, More generally, then, my advice is not to rush into any moves or disclosures that will cause irreversible changes at this point. Give yourself some time to sort yourself out first. If one more lie can save you from that, it might be a good idea. But, as above, that is one more thing you will need to come to terms with if/when you decide to rebuild.