Another point of view from a WS's

January 6, 2013

I have been reading the threads on here for months but it was Good Cop Bad Cop's thread that finally made me register. This frightens me but one of the posters in that thread was kind enough to encourage me and so I will start a thread to explain why that bothered me so deeply. This is for WS's for the most part, since this is what I am.

I have felt a lot of pressure on these threads to declare the "OW meant nothing to me" and that anything we feel was just "a fog". The common opinion is that saying anything else means you are out of touch with reality. But Ampersand and Good Cop Bad Cop are brave enough to say the opposite, so I feel encouraged to tell you my story. I strayed, and I did not tell my wife, so she still does not know. We are still together and she suspects nothing so far as I can see. My OW and I had a EA for the most part and not a PA. We were best friends and coworkers and told each other everything. There was some kissing and touching but no sex. That was my decision, because somewhere I had a feeling that it was not an A if we did not have sex. I didn't know about EA's yet. And before it could go any farther I told my OW I had to cut off contact. She was very hurt and angry at first. But she respected my wishes and did not contact me again. I comitted to myself to be happy at home with my wife. I spent more time home and with my grandchildren and I promised myself to be there for them all.

I didn't talk to my OW for three months. Then I found out my she passed away! She had long term health problems that I knew about. I didn't know she died until many days after the fact. Why would anybody tell me? I found out through a friend and I was shocked. She didn't trust me I guess to tell me. I feel so sad and shocked still. I feel so awful that she died thinking I didn't care about her enough to find out how she was doing. I feel guilty about lying to my W but I feel more guilty about this. I would do anything to change that. If I could go back in time I would do anything to change it.

I didn't want to write this because I know this is some BW's fantasy and they will think the OW deserved this. If you think like this then you are the one in a fog. Nobody deserves to feel like that.

When I was going to post last night it was because Ampersand said something that made me sick to my stomach actually, I'm sorry. Even though he admits he loves his OW. But if you think KMART pots and pans are the worst thing that can happen to you then you don't love your W or your OW. I would be so happy to go back to those days if I could change what happened. I ignored her like she wasn't ever there and she died with that. I will never forgive myself for that. I could forgive myself for cheating but not for that.

Edited January 6, 2013 by notanother1

January 6, 2013

Notanother

I am fWS too. And I can promise you that the overwhelmingly vast majority of BW who post here would never wish for the OW to die. It is also accepted that WS can have feelings for the AP - the issue is the fog which clouds judgement and decision-making and yes can allow emotions to be heightened. The affair, after all, is not always a fair representation of a full-time, publicly open relationship.

As for your situation. You decided to re-commit to your marriage but that does not mean feelings switch off overnight. To have found out the the OW has passed away will understandably come as a shock (don't blame people for not telling you sooner, why should they have made a point of doing so if they did not know of the affair). You are feeling guilty but I am afraid you are just going to have to deal with it as best you can.

My concern is that this will distance you from your wife when you are trying to recover the marriage (but without her knowledge). I really do think you should tell her - she is bound to be thinking something is not right if you are appearing low and miserable as I am guessing you do.

I also think you need to try counselling. Not only do you need to work on the problems in your marriage that led to the affair but you also need to deal with the mix of emotions you now feel about the OW.

January 6, 2013

That is so sad, I am sorry to hear that. My condolences x

But presumably she didn't tell you she was dying because she was respecting NC rather than because she thought you didn't care. And maybe there wasn't time at the end.

As for regretting that instead of the affair? I suspect you would have felt differently if your wife had known. Then you could have had some respect for her and what you had done for her as well as for your OW.

January 6, 2013

It mean so much to me that the first response I got is not hostile. So thank you so much for that. I am already seeking counseling for me but the holidays have made that harder There is a long wait now. My wife and I are actually closer than ever since I have been more conscious in comitting to her and she has said she is happy with the changes in me. We have been married for over thirty years and we were together since school. She was there for me through war years and a long tour of duty overseas. I forgot about that sometimes in the past but not anymore. I keep myself thinking every day of what she has put up with to be with me and why I need to think about her more.

This isn't a justification at all and I know it. I treated them both so badly. I was just thinking about myself and it was only an affair because I kept secrets from my W. If I could have talked to her like I talked to my OW it wouldn't have even been a secret, so it wouldn't have been an EA, just a friendship. My fault, all of it is my fault.

January 6, 2013

Well there's your answer. You need to really start talking to your wife. She should be your best-friend.

January 6, 2013

Not to be unkind but I think your story just reinforces the fact that affairs are damaging to everyone involved. You could have been there for your OW as a friend if she had never been your OW. There would have been no need for NC.

As for hating the OP, I suppose there are some BSs that simply wish evil upon them. Some are still early in the process and others may have OPs that, quite frankly, have it coming. But by and large, I think most BSs place the real responsibility on their WS. In my situation, the OM was just a guy that was happy to get laid by my wife. He's certainly no saint but it was ultimately my wife that had responsibility to say no to men's advances. When they broke NC, I thought of some pretty drastic measures, even told the guy I would kill him if he ever spoke to my wife again. But at the end of the day, I had plenty of opportunity to ruin his life (particularly his career as my W was a subordinate) and never did. I told his W because she deserved to know and so that we could work together to keep the affair ended. Didn't work and I ended up divorced but still never exacted vengeance upon him. Still could, I suppose, but I'm really just not a vindictive person.

As others have mentioned, I just hope you find the courage to come clean with your wife and ensure that SHE stays as your best friend in life. Betrayed spouses have a remarkable capacity for forgiveness of someone who voluntarily confesses and shows true remorse. It's actually a very bonding experience and I hope one that you don't deny yourself.

January 6, 2013

I have been reading the threads on here for months but it was Good Cop Bad Cop's thread that finally made me register. This frightens me but one of the posters in that thread was kind enough to encourage me and so I will start a thread to explain why that bothered me so deeply. This is for WS's for the most part, since this is what I am.

I have felt a lot of pressure on these threads to declare the "OW meant nothing to me"

Have you read any of Dr Harley's books? Surviving An Affair?.

Any way he states the reason for NC between the WS and the OP is that the feelings will never go away. Seeing, having contact will bring those feelings back to the front of their mind instead forgotten. Contact will cause the affair to restart.

Yes you had good feelings. Why would a WS spend time with the OP if they were not good times. Feeling good did not make those times right.

You realized your affair was wrong.

Yet you want to say the affair high was good.

Well your OP was your drug of choice and you where addicted to the attention she gave.

You are the same as a alcoholic talking about how you love the taste of your favorite beer.

Or the crack head, talking about how great the high was.

You doing this makes you forget the damage you have done.

If your OW was so great a person how do you explain why her having an affair was so good?

If what you did was so good and what you felt so good why don't you share what you did with your BW, kids, grand kids, your siblings?

The day you will stop fondly recalling your drug of choice is when you will be honest with yourself.

January 6, 2013

Why would You say a BS would wish death upon an OW/OM?!

Because she took part in hurting the BS? Because her (or his) actions made me mad?

To me, that is a part of everyone's lives. Sometimes my employees make me mad. Do I wish them dead? NO!

Sometimes A complete stranger hurts me or people I love. Do I want them dead? Of course NOT!!

Are my feeling or your feelings wrong? NO WAY!!

Are our actions wrong? Yep, sometimes.

Is it "okay" for you to be feeling this way? That's for you to decide.

Are you being honest w/your Wife? No.

Are you living an authentic and honest life? Not really.

You are grieving. You should. Then learn through your grief whatever it is you are here to learn.

I am VERY sorry you are hurting*

January 6, 2013

I didn't want to write this because I know this is some BW's fantasy and they will think the OW deserved this.

NOBODY is going to think that. Wishing death upon anybody is sick and wrong.

January 6, 2013

I didn't want to write this because I know this is some BW's fantasy and they will think the OW deserved this.

I think several responders have misinterpreted this. Of course no one would wish death on the OW. What the OP meant, correct me if I'm wrong, is he fears people will think the OW deserved to die without the comfort of her AP. I do agree with that. THe OW could have said no and kept them as friends. She willing crossed the line and thereby lost her friend by violating that friendship boundary. She knew he was married. She could have keep her friend but traded him for a lover. Terrible choice with the predictable consequence that now she lost her friend. And he lost his friend too.

January 6, 2013

I think several responders have misinterpreted this. Of course no one would wish death on the OW. What the OP meant, correct me if I'm wrong, is he fears people will think the OW deserved to die without the comfort of her AP. I do agree with that. THe OW could have said no and kept them as friends. She willing crossed the line and thereby lost her friend by violating that friendship boundary. She knew he was married. She could have keep her friend but traded him for a lover. Terrible choice with the predictable consequence that now she lost her friend. And he lost his friend too.

Well, it didn't come off like that at all. The OP was pretty blunt, the way it was worded certainly came across assuming that ALL BS's would think that. SO not true. That's like saying MOST OW would love to see the BS pass away so she could have the MM all to herself. Quite offensive eh.

January 6, 2013

Thank you for sharing your story.

Judging who has the most pain, etc. shouldn't be the lesson we take away.

My take on it is a reminder that it's never a good idea to be in an affair with your friend if you want to keep your friend. It's so much harder for me to lose a friend than a lover.

Surely the BS has every right to be angry and hurt. BS also needs to look at themselves, cuz the only person they can change is themselves. Monitoring phones and computers doesn't matter if they're still looking for a way to get with another person. Better to kick their asses to the curb. Harboring hate and anger to the OW does nothing at all to change the situation. It may be justifiable - but any bad stuff that happens to the OW will not magically transform into good stuff happening for the BS.

January 6, 2013

When I said BS's fantasize about my situation I meant the second thing. That the OW deserves to die alone or without the AP. I don't agree. But this wasn't my point and it seems a lot of people are replying just to that part of my post. If it's distracting I can remove it. But already there is a poster saying just that.

For everyone else I thank for the replies and even the tough love. I know I admit the affair is what caused the separation between me and my OW. But I feel guilty about the way we ended and that after 25years working side by side I couldn't share part of her last days. Alexandria posted that if something happened to my wife or child - god forbid- that I would feel 1000 times more guilty. But I wouldn't. Why would I feel just as guilty? Being my OW makes her a less valuable person? If she was anybody else I loved would it be different, say one of my sisters. If that last time I saw my sisters I said cruel and false things, and if they died thinking I really meant it, then I would feel this guilty. Under the same situation if it was with my sons or my wife or any friend I would feel that way. I told her I never was in love with her and that was a lie. I told her I didn't want to see her anymore and that was a lie. Those are just the things you have to say if I read all the posts and books right, because it has to look like my choice. All of the posts and books say that when you start fearing to lose your wife, you snap out of the fog like a dream, but the opposite thing happened to me. Now I wish I made the other choice.

All my fault and I know it. But you are right here and I have to tell my W. She is still young enough and she will find someone who can give her all of themselves but I just can't.

January 6, 2013

When I said BS's fantasize about my situation I meant the second thing. That the OW deserves to die alone or without the AP. I don't agree. But this wasn't my point and it seems a lot of people are replying just to that part of my post. If it's distracting I can remove it. But already there is a poster saying just that.

For everyone else I thank for the replies and even the tough love. I know I admit the affair is what caused the separation between me and my OW. But I feel guilty about the way we ended and that after 25years working side by side I couldn't share part of her last days. Alexandria posted that if something happened to my wife or child - god forbid- that I would feel 1000 times more guilty. But I wouldn't. Why would I feel just as guilty? Being my OW makes her a less valuable person? If she was anybody else I loved would it be different, say one of my sisters. If that last time I saw my sisters I said cruel and false things, and if they died thinking I really meant it, then I would feel this guilty. Under the same situation if it was with my sons or my wife or any friend I would feel that way. I told her I never was in love with her and that was a lie. I told her I didn't want to see her anymore and that was a lie. Those are just the things you have to say if I read all the posts and books right, because it has to look like my choice. All of the posts and books say that when you start fearing to lose your wife, you snap out of the fog like a dream, but the opposite thing happened to me. Now I wish I made the other choice.

All my fault and I know it. But you are right here and I have to tell my W. She is still young enough and she will find someone who can give her all of themselves but I just can't.

The sooner the better. She has already wasted enough time and she will find someone.

January 6, 2013

Alexandria posted that if something happened to my wife or child - god forbid- that I would feel 1000 times more guilty. But I wouldn't.

Reading this, I take that to mean you loved your OW more than your wife and more than your own flesh and blood. Maybe it is time for you to come clean with your wife and divorce.

It actually makes me feel sad reading your thread.

January 6, 2013

Yes, I did love her more. Just saying this here feel more true than anything I said to anybody for so long. So I will not waste anymore of my W's time like you say. It is time to leave and I should have done it so long ago. The more I say it the more I feel like it is right. I want to thank this board and the kind people here for true advice. I don't think any of you are here to hurt people it just takes hard truth to make somebody see what's right in front of them sometimes.

January 6, 2013

...I know this is some BW's fantasy and they will think the OW deserved this. If you think like this then you are the one in a fog. ...

First of all there was no need to throw in the barb, as you have no evidence that most BWs think like this.

All I can say is that throwing a death into the mix creates a whole new dimension in the affair dynamic. Here on LS I haven't encountered all that many where a death has occurred and so far, none in the exact same situation as me.

In my situation (I'm BW), my fWH had an affair with a married OW whose husband died. He never knew he was a BH and he died while saving the life of his wife (my H's OW) and her son (who may or may not be my H's child).

This set in train a process where my H started to go off the rails, and a few months later I had my own d-day. As part of this I contacted the OW and she wrote to me that she wished it were her who had died rather than her H. I wrote back that I didn't think she deserved to die because of what had happened.

Unfortunately an unexpected death often leaves behind a whole lot of unresolved issues, a lot of "what ifs".

I'm not sure if you want advice, but I would recommend coming clean to your wife and working on it together. I'm 100% sure that my H is now happier and relieved that it all came out into the open. Reconciling such a marriage is never easy but the rewards are good. WE are now more than 4 years past our d-day.

January 6, 2013

My wife and I are actually closer than ever since I have been more conscious in comitting to her and she has said she is happy with the changes in me. We have been married for over thirty years and we were together since school. She was there for me through war years and a long tour of duty overseas. I forgot about that sometimes in the past but not anymore. I keep myself thinking every day of what she has put up with to be with me and why I need to think about her more.

This isn't a jus.

So this wasn't true then? Now you are really being cruel:(

January 6, 2013

I want to believe the things I said. I always wanted to believe them and I wrote them here because I wanted to keep going that way. I tred to remember, I said, I always had to try. Then asked right out if I loved OW more I can't deny I did. I worked with her for 25years and had her to talk about things we both understood. I have a long history with my W but I always come back to the war and how she waited for me. But that was almost forty years ago. I love her still but I loved OW more. There is no one to talk to now. And I don't want to just go find someone else because I will be dead by the time I make a bond like that again. But like you said I am wasting my W's time.

Edited January 6, 2013 by notanother1

January 6, 2013

I'm not sure if you want advice, but I would recommend coming clean to your wife and working on it together. I'm 100% sure that my H is now happier and relieved that it all came out into the open. Reconciling such a marriage is never easy but the rewards are good. WE are now more than 4 years past our d-day.

Your situation sounds so hard and I'm so sorry. I don't know if I can reconcile. I don't want to hurt her and I feel like I owe her to stay with her if she wants to. But she might not when she knows everything. And even if she does she won't want me to love her because of feeling like I owe her. I want to be the attentive husband I have been trying to be. But knowing that I let her believe she was always first in my heart when she wasn't, I think she won't trust after that. Yes I deserve that. And she deserves to be first in somebody's heart.

January 7, 2013

If you actually loved her more, you would have acted on it appropriately during her lifetime.

Gently, I believe your grief, the secret keeping of your affair, and a lack of therapy to deal with both of those is leading you into a bad place of thought.

You should tell your wife about your affair, your AP's death, and seek therapy.

January 7, 2013

If you actually loved her more, you would have acted on it appropriately during her lifetime.

Gently, I believe your grief, the secret keeping of your affair, and a lack of therapy to deal with both of those is leading you into a bad place of thought.

You should tell your wife about your affair, your AP's death, and seek therapy.

This makes sense, really. In a way, your thoughts about your AP are like those of a widower. You are mourning her death and it is coloring all of your thoughts. I think if you are making decisions about your future at this time, it is not with a clear head or heart. You stayed with your wife and went no contact with AP and even if you still had feelings for AP when you did this, it was for a reason. Don't make rash decisions right now. Find a counselor and gain some perspective about this before you make any decisions. Good luck.

January 7, 2013

Therapy definitely. And I will tell my W. I am reading my posts today and I sound so unhinged. I am still figuring this all out and it is making me not even know who I am or who I was. I know what I want to be but I am afraid that is not who I am. I have been trying very hard to be who I should be.

I am so afraid and sad about this. I think I really needed to come here but I think I need help before I post a lot more. I read every post and feel like every post is the one that will have the answer. So I keep trying different answers. I am sorry if I have been confusing.

January 7, 2013

Your situation sounds so hard and I'm so sorry.

Thank you

I don't know if I can reconcile.

I expect many don't know, but it's my belief that it's something the couple should explore together, which is why I advocate for honesty.

I don't want to hurt her and I feel like I owe her to stay with her if she wants to.

Once you are on the same page with the same information, then your feeling of owing her staying together (while she doesn't know of your betrayal) will likely dissipate and instead you will (hopefully) feel you owe it to each other to work it out between you, one way or the other ie staying together or parting. Again a good reason for honesty as it's just you with these feelings otherwise.

But she might not when she knows everything.

No she may not, which is why again it's best to both be acting on the same information.

And even if she does she won't want me to love her because of feeling like I owe her.

I doubt many BWs want Hs to stay with them merely from obligation.

I want to be the attentive husband I have been trying to be. But knowing that I let her believe she was always first in my heart when she wasn't, I think she won't trust after that.

Again a good reason for working through this together. It may well be that you part when one of you wanted to stay together, but at least it's honest. If you do both decide to stay together then the rewards can be great.

Yes I deserve that. And she deserves to be first in somebody's heart.

My comments in bold.

January 7, 2013

Well, it didn't come off like that at all. The OP was pretty blunt, the way it was worded certainly came across assuming that ALL BS's would think that. SO not true. That's like saying MOST OW would love to see the BS pass away so she could have the MM all to herself. Quite offensive eh.

I don't think that most BS would wish the AP dead just to have them out of the way.Nor do I think that is what the OP meant. OP - please clarify.

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