Gaslighting/Breadcrumbs- are they aware they're doing it?

[Honiebee]

I'm quite new to this forum, and have had one thread on my current situation answered really well- it's really helped.

I'd not really heard of Gaslighting and BC before- but it got me thinking...

are they even aware they're doing it half the time?

 

Do they sit there and think... 'Oh no, she's said she doesn't want to see me again, I should probably text her something that would make her guilty/feel bad and she will end up coming back- therefore I get what I want'.

 

Do you think they actually plot it out, or it's something that just happens? Are they aware they manipulate a situation, or is it just something they do without thinking?

 

I'm interested to know the thoughts on this. This is probably a totally stupid question, but I'm curious. xx

[Hopeful714]

I've thought of this too. I can't say for sure if they know this or not. My best guess would be that it is somehow a personality disorder that has developed throughout the years where this "deviant" behavior produces the positive results they want to achieve....so they keep using it. Certainly, it is a form of manipulation and control.

 

I hate just labeling people (my ex) as personality disordered but really...they ARE out there. And I was naive to it I guess. Funny tho how from the very beginning I sensed something askew with my ex. Felt something snakey. Well playing with snakes....you get bit. I saw him do this to close friends of his and then me. Personally, I don't understand any of this kind of behavior so yea...I guess that's why I think its deviant and disordered.

[Honiebee]

I've thought of this too. I can't say for sure if they know this or not. My best guess would be that it is somehow a personality disorder that has developed throughout the years where this "deviant" behavior produces the positive results they want to achieve....so they keep using it. Certainly, it is a form of manipulation and control.

 

I hate just labeling people (my ex) as personality disordered but really...they ARE out there. And I was naive to it I guess. Funny tho how from the very beginning I sensed something askew with my ex. Felt something snakey. Well playing with snakes....you get bit. I saw him do this to close friends of his and then me. Personally, I don't understand any of this kind of behavior so yea...I guess that's why I think its deviant and disordered.

 

I always had this uneasy feeling my ex was never totally honest with me. But I was wondering whether they sit there and 'plot' (if you will) a way to keep someone under 'control', or if they say and do these things but don't even realise what they're doing. It's a tough one to call! I'm sorry you had a snakey experience, but at least you know what to look for now!

[Coping Vortex]

I don't feel that is always premeditated. I think things in your life can be like a whirlwind and exciting but then your mind wants to go back to something familiar and safe and stable. That is why I think they reach out initially to fill that need. Now that being said it is a killer for us that are on the receiving end. We get excited that our lover is coming back. But it's just a death rattle. My ex has been bread crumbing me for a few days now. I truly don't feel my ex contacted me maliciously to hurt me, but started to compare our relationship to her new relationship and missed a little of what she had. But....that does not mean that she wants to "run" back to what we had, they are also caught up in the new relationship. I fear I am letting her have too much control so she can have it all. I will be tossed aside once I am not needed. I plan to press her to declare what she wants and that i cannot be her fall back buddy to fill in her time. I want all of her time or nothing. That is when i will go back to NC. That will be the ultimate test as to what she really wants.

[Hopeful714]

Dunno...may partly be conscience, part not? They know it works. I think the control is ingrained in them. Maybe they learned it from another abuser who did it to them? Maybe learned it as a kid to get what they wanted? Weird psychological crap for sure.

 

If you got those feelings tho...chances are you had a snake. I kept denying the feeling and as time went on eventually got physically ill because my head was trying to tell me something I just couldn't/wouldn't grasp...so yea...I was gas lighted. Creepy stuff for sure.

[NoMoreJerks]

I am sure some do it very consciously / deliberately, to prevent their exes from moving on, because they want to keep them as the fallback girl/guy! These people are generally narcissists who can't live with the idea that someone has moved on and forgotten all about them / is ignoring them. They are master manipulators, and yes, they gaslight consciously! My ex used to do this, and he did it right to the very end.. He hasn't contacted me in the past 2 weeks (ditto for me) since he dumped me, but at some point he probably will, given that I am acting in an unpredictable fashion (i usually beg , etc., and this time I did not ).. He might not, but if I know him well enough, he will, even if it is to ask if we could still be friends, because, really, that's what he wanted in the first place! A friend with benefits!

 

From my experience with my ex, who was EXTREMELY good at manipulation, so much so that I constantly questioned what I had just heard him say, whether I was making any sense at all, etc.! - yes! there are those out there that do it consciously! And yes, he did it in order to control me and get me "where I deserved to be" (as a woman, I deserved to be "put in my place"). He was very bitter about women (he had a string of failed LTR, in which he was always the dumpee -- and for a good reason too!).. not sure if the bitterness preceded the series of dumpings he had to go through, or if it came after it. My guess is, if 4 women dumped him after having 4-5 year LTR with him, the common denominator is him... and I am not surprised... given his selfishness/narcissism, controlling and manipulative behaviour, and constant passive-aggressiveness... I don't think someone just becomes a narcissist overnight, after being dumped by someone. It's a long-term personality trait that is usually acquired during childhood/adolescence.

Edited January 5, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[Hopeful714]

I would think my ex was a narc too. He fit all the descriptions and couldn't keep a LTR past a year with anyone.

 

But don't you think when they "get" that you are on to them or that you will not be "controlled" anymore they finally leave you alone for someone new?

 

My ex kept coming back as long as I would take it. Then when he sensed I wouldn't anymore he finally gave up. And then "you" start hurting because in a crazy way "you" miss the control. Its jacked up mental mind games.

[NoMoreJerks]

I would think my ex was a narc too. He fit all the descriptions and couldn't keep a LTR past a year with anyone.

 

But don't you think when they "get" that you are on to them or that you will not be "controlled" anymore they finally leave you alone for someone new?

 

My ex kept coming back as long as I would take it. Then when he sensed I wouldn't anymore he finally gave up. And then "you" start hurting because in a crazy way "you" miss the control. Its jacked up mental mind games.

Yup - you're right -- and I *was* on to my ex, and maybe this is why this second break-up sounds so final (yes, another trait is that they constantly threaten break-ups and/or break up with you).. but they do return eventually... they are in the habit of popping in and out of your life, even years down the line...

 

You'd be surprised at how many people put up with narcs for a long long time. I've heard of so many women who put up with this crap for years.. sometimes it doesn't show up until a year into the relationship (maybe because they were just so in love with the guy / in the honeymoon phase that htey just ignored the red flags, etc.).. One thing I know for a fact is that, if you have had 4 LTRs and have been dumped because your gfs could no longer stand you,then you have your answer as to who is the messed up one. And no, it's not the gfs!

 

My ex weaseled his way into a pseudo-relationship with me after breaking up with me, by playing the friends card. Of course, this happened 3 months into the relationship, and while it was not normal for a guy to act like this 3 months into a relationship (he was very disrespectful and inconsiderate/selfish), I gave him a second chance, thinking, these things happen, I don't want to regret not giving this another chance.. he dangled the friends card, and I said, I don't want to be friends: i want a relationship. And he said we can try again, and then a week later, he claimed we had never broken up to begin with, that it had just been a break! He was never apologetic though (for dumping me) -- narcs NEVER apologize. They don't understand the logic behind apology or forgiveness. They consider both to be a sign of weakness.. so if you have ever apologized to them, or begged them, etc., then you have devalued yourself in their eyes. Once sufficiently devalued, they find it easy to discard you and move on to the woman next in line for narcissistic supply..

 

It's so creepy...... in the 6 months that I was with him, I was mind****ed so badly, I still struggle to think properly and still blame myself, second-guess myself, etc., even though I *KNOW* for a fact that he was a narcissist. He didn't even want to hear about how my day was. If he ever asked me how my day was, and I said that something had stressed me out, etc., he'd immediately tell me he didn't want to hear about it, I should just chill out and forget about it, that it was making him stressed to hear about it.... meanwhile, he'd call me up and talk for hours about his job and bitch about stuff at his workplace....and I never dared cut him off once, because I knew that wouldn't go down too well with him...

 

Note, it goes without saying that this also applies to female narcs, though by the sounds of it, there are more male narcs out there than female ones.

Edited January 5, 2013 by NoMoreJerks

[Hopeful714]

Yep I was always "threatened" about the relationship ending too. I was always told "many other girls want me" as if I didn't like something...then I could easily be replaced. He also used to tell me "I" was bi-polar when I had any issue with the relationship as it was according to "him". And I WAS a good gf!

 

If you didn't live in Canada...Id wonder if we dated the same guy!

 

Your still early in your BU tho...and like I said when they are gone gone...like mine is...I'm still left with all the hurt because in a weird sense I was conditioned to his control and I miss him and the attention although I shouldn't at all after everything that was done to me. Manipulation at its finest I suppose.

 

And yea some women stay for years but most cant take it forever. My ex was dumped several times too because all the girls finally get sick of the lying and cheating ways and have to get out.

[NoMoreJerks]

I was always told "many other girls want me" as if I didn't like something..

Mine was more passive-aggressive about that, though he did threaten to end the relationship MANY MANY times (basically any time he didn't get his way, or felt like I was expecting - not even demanding! - a tiny bit of attention from him). He wouldn't tell me that many other girls wanted him, but he'd make me insecure (deliberately), by talking about how this or that woman he'd met in the hotel elevator (he used to travel a lot for work) had offered him to go to her room (for sex)..... at first I didn't think much of it (I'm not a terribly insecure/jealous person), but yeah, it was a passive-aggressive way of making me insecure to keep me in line.. he'd then tell me that he turned it down and I was supposed to be immensely grateful for that, apparently!....... Also, if I didn't text him by a certain hour in the morning, he'd text me and ask if I was in bed with another man (when he was back home in the UK)... Meanwhile, if I EVER expected him to text me or call me, he'd go ballistic about how needy and demanding I was.....

 

If you didn't live in Canada...Id wonder if we dated the same guy!

Maybe we did! Mine wasn't from Canada. He traveled to Canada for work, every now and then, and that's how we met... So maybe we did date the same guy.

 

I have my moments -- I miss him sometimes. But I have come to realize that I don't miss who he REALLY was. I miss who I thought he was -- I had this image of him in my head, that wasn't true at all.. I had built it up in my head.. it wasn't realistic at all. It was just based on my wishes and expectations.. He was the complete opposite of that..

 

I am completely over him, in the sense that I do not want him back. EVER. I am too emotionally drained, after putting in 10x the effort anyone would normally put into a relationship... and I put in the effort on his behalf too ! By the time he dumped me the 2nd time aorund, I was completely mentally and emotionally exhausted and drained. I mean, I have ZERO energy. Even physically. I barely have the energy to walk around, go to the supermarket, or even eat. I'm *that* exhausted. My mental and emotional capacity has been SO depleted.. I gave this my ALL, and I can't give more than that. And the realization that it didn't work out after I gave it my all, is even more depressing. Sometimes I do miss the times I spent with him and sometimes I do not regret it -- even the bad stuff and mindf*ckery that I had to go through. But to take him back? NEVER. Not even as a friend whom I occasionally chat with. I just want to forget him. Completely. Even all the good memories. I just want to wipe him out of my head, like he never existed to begin with. That's how sick of it all I am.

[XKatieX]

I think it all depends on the person. If they have some kind of personality disorder, they might have it all planned out already. However, those that don't probably just get this natural feeling of guilt, that could come within months or even a year. And some might not ever feel guilt at all.