Mr. Lucky Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I agree. In my case, she worked there for several months with nothing more than some random compliments here and there, until he made her his assistant. Then the full court press was on. And you know this because that's what your wife told you? You're going to assume that someone who, at least at the time of the A, lied about everything else is telling you the truth about this part? And this doesn't even take into account a WS desire to trickle-truth and spin the after-the-fact accounting of events to their benefit, if for no other reason than to avoid hurting you further. And like many other cases, she "wasn't looking" for something like this to happen, but she didn't stop it either. If the doctor asked most married assistants "give me a retractor, a drill and a kiss", what do you think their response would be? Cheating participants are called "affair partners" for all the reasons that partnership implies... Mr. Lucky
Author ObiWan Posted January 7, 2013 Author Posted January 7, 2013 Guys not to break your world.. but why it is important who did give the 1st step towards the affair? The fact is that that person who owed you respect and love decided to go with someone else (predator or not predator) above of respecting you. They did it voluntary (they were not forced to do it), actually they were happy to go with them... You can have your reasons on why you are happy reconciling with them but up to my point of view, the first condition for a reconciliation with a WS is that he/she should be totally remorseful for what they did. In both or your cases your BS were ready to leave you for the WS, they only came back to you because the WS didn't take them. How it is ok for you to be the second option? Don't you ever think that you deserve someone who loves you above everything and everyone? Not trying to be hurtful here, I just need to understand.. Up to my point of view you are trying to put all the negative rage on the OM... I am not going to defend them, they were there too, but how it is right to defend and forgive your WS even when they don't feel remorse for what they did (maybe now they do but it is really a remorse for what they have done to you or for how things ended up for them??) and to keep hating the OM. I don't get you guys, you can hate as much as you want the OM if that makes you feel better but you are at big risk of this happening again (maybe not with the same OM, or maybe yes...) I understand your point of view, but it is simplifying things some. If I felt like my W wasn't truly remorseful I wouldn't be with her today. The condition she returned in was not ideal - I recognize that - in fact it was just short of worst possible scenario (worst being her actually leaving, not just emotionally / mentally). The OM played her for a fool but she let herself get to that point. She believed the fantasy and opted to go for it. I'm still learning as I go along but remorse is a complex thing. I believe it can be felt in different situations and circumstances. There are many avenues this situation could have taken. I don't think remorse, true remorse anyway, can only be felt coming from one of them. Say had she actually left, things blew up, she comes to her senses...can remorse be felt then? Not saying I would have taken her back at that point, but that's independent of what she may have felt. In my case, her fantasy blew up in her face. She wasn't remorseful at first, but she came to be. Sometimes people have to make the mistake in order to realize how wrong it is. I do realize affairs cannot simply be called "mistakes", it is far more complicated than that. The anger / rage subsides but in my case it hasn't totally gone away. It bubbles to the surface now and then. But if I continually take it out on her, it will not be conducive to a positive environment. I made a conscious decision to not let the OM have power over me in that sense. I do believe what goes around, comes around. He will get his. But I won't obsess over it, not anymore. He is now irrelevant in my (and her) life. Should he pop up again, then the game will change.
Author ObiWan Posted January 7, 2013 Author Posted January 7, 2013 And you know this because that's what your wife told you? You're going to assume that someone who, at least at the time of the A, lied about everything else is telling you the truth about this part? And this doesn't even take into account a WS desire to trickle-truth and spin the after-the-fact accounting of events to their benefit, if for no other reason than to avoid hurting you further. If the doctor asked most married assistants "give me a retractor, a drill and a kiss", what do you think their response would be? Cheating participants are called "affair partners" for all the reasons that partnership implies... Mr. Lucky She's told me everything, soul crushing details and all. At first it was all trickle and half truths but in time it all came out. We've had numerous conversations about it all. She has no reason to lie at this point, at least not anymore. At any rate, I say this because I was able to confirm most of the story with the OM's BW. She contacted me a couple of times after the fact looking to verify the truth and whether or not I had any hard evidence of what happened. So I believe my wife when she describes what happened. You're right, most married assistants would cry sexual harassment. Mine didn't.
Mr. Lucky Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 S At any rate, I say this because I was able to confirm most of the story with the OM's BW. She contacted me a couple of times after the fact looking to verify the truth and whether or not I had any hard evidence of what happened. So I believe my wife when she describes what happened. In other words, you have what your WS told you and she has what her WS told her, both subject to the same vagaries of recall, spin and self preservation. Be careful labeling that as the "truth". ObiWan, you seem like a bright guy and I wish you well in the recovery of your marriage. Truth be told, had my WS been willing to do the work, I probably would have chosen the same path. Didn't work out for me (turned out for the better as I went on to get remarried and enjoy life ), I hope the course you've chosen benefits you and yours... Mr. Lucky 1
Author ObiWan Posted January 7, 2013 Author Posted January 7, 2013 In other words, you have what your WS told you and she has what her WS told her, both subject to the same vagaries of recall, spin and self preservation. Be careful labeling that as the "truth". ObiWan, you seem like a bright guy and I wish you well in the recovery of your marriage. Truth be told, had my WS been willing to do the work, I probably would have chosen the same path. Didn't work out for me (turned out for the better as I went on to get remarried and enjoy life ), I hope the course you've chosen benefits you and yours... Mr. Lucky Thank you Mr. Lucky. It is much appreciated.
CantgetoveritNY Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 In both or your cases your BS were ready to leave you for the WS, they only came back to you because the WS didn't take them. How it is ok for you to be the second option? Don't you ever think that you deserve someone who loves you above everything and everyone? Not trying to be hurtful here, I just need to understand.. In my case my WS had, as some one here said, checked out of the marriage long before the affair. So what if it was an exit affair? At one point I was her first choice. I felt there was a chance to regain that with her over time. Its been 5 months and I see signs of it. I'm hopeful. I won't stay with her if I'm not her number one. I'm not going to give up trying unless she cheats again or I see it is there is not enough progress towards becoming her number one. but you are at big risk of this happening again (maybe not with the same OM, or maybe yes...) Yes. Of course. Obiwaan - Please be aware that as her boss, by promoting her to take advantage of her, he was breaking laws. This is not your run of the mill affair where two equals decide to do something immoral. He really stepped over more boundaries to get to her than most people do in affairs. You should not ignore this. I understand you don't feel the need to report him for your own reasons. Think of others. You are, IMHO, morally obligated to report him. If you do not the blood of other marriages is on your head. 1
CantgetoveritNY Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 don't get me wrong, I have been in your shoes, I just chose a different path. For me it is important to be with someone for whom I am their best and first choice and therefore the most important person in the world... My ex simply didn't qualify for that role anymore. I just don't understand how you can settle for less than that... Sorry for posting twice but I forgot to say... far more hurtful than being second choice is knowing she was with him, sexually, at all. Even if I was always her number one but she just had an A, I'd be just as sick about this as I am now. I'm hoping that once I'm her number one and she really wants to be my number one too that I can get over that fact. I'm not sure I can. Unfortunately we may do all this work and then in the end I might say I'm too hurt to go on myself. I just don't know at this point. I know its been 5 months but I don't know. If it does not get better over time I won't be able to continue. Others here say it might get better. Lets see. 1
Michael Johnson Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 In my case my WS had, as some one here said, checked out of the marriage long before the affair. So what if it was an exit affair? At one point I was her first choice. I felt there was a chance to regain that with her over time. Its been 5 months and I see signs of it. I'm hopeful. I won't stay with her if I'm not her number one. I'm not going to give up trying unless she cheats again or I see it is there is not enough progress towards becoming her number one. Your statements are contradictory. If her "exit affair" is irrelevant to you and it is not the reason why your marriage is not stable as it should be then why the need to mention how many months of signs you're seeing with her? If you were her number one, fact of the matter is no matter how long she checked out ago, she'd handle her marital problems like an adult instead of having an affair as some futile solution. It was a coward's way out and you know it, but you're afraid to admit that it hurts more than you're really letting on. Obiwaan - Please be aware that as her boss, by promoting her to take advantage of her, he was breaking laws. This is not your run of the mill affair where two equals decide to do something immoral. He really stepped over more boundaries to get to her than most people do in affairs. You should not ignore this. I understand you don't feel the need to report him for your own reasons. Think of others. You are, IMHO, morally obligated to report him. If you do not the blood of other marriages is on your head.Office affairs are nothing new but you are right he is breaking the law and can be held accountable (and she can too).
Author ObiWan Posted January 7, 2013 Author Posted January 7, 2013 Obiwaan - Please be aware that as her boss, by promoting her to take advantage of her, he was breaking laws. This is not your run of the mill affair where two equals decide to do something immoral. He really stepped over more boundaries to get to her than most people do in affairs. You should not ignore this. I understand you don't feel the need to report him for your own reasons. Think of others. You are, IMHO, morally obligated to report him. If you do not the blood of other marriages is on your head. I hadn't thought of it from a legal standpoint. Which laws were broken?
CantgetoveritNY Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Your statements are contradictory. If her "exit affair" is irrelevant to you and it is not the reason why your marriage is not stable as it should be then why the need to mention how many months of signs you're seeing with her? If you were her number one, fact of the matter is no matter how long she checked out ago, she'd handle her marital problems like an adult instead of having an affair as some futile solution. It was a coward's way out and you know it, but you're afraid to admit that it hurts more than you're really letting on. I did not say it was irrelevant. I just meant that whether it was exit or just cake eating made no difference. Heck it could have been a ONS and it would mean the same to me. I agree too that it was the wrong way to handle being check out of the marriage. She does too now. In spades. I think she learned from this. Is a better person than she was before. It does not help me with the big problem I have. That is that she slept with another guy. That is what I can't get over. Not the fact that it was an exit affair. Office affairs are nothing new but you are right he is breaking the law and can be held accountable (and she can too). His wife can be held accountable but not legally. She did nothing illegal.
CantgetoveritNY Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 I hadn't thought of it from a legal standpoint. Which laws were broken? Sexual harassment. This is a classic case of it.
Author ObiWan Posted January 7, 2013 Author Posted January 7, 2013 Sexual harassment. This is a classic case of it. Even if it was consensual?
CantgetoveritNY Posted January 7, 2013 Posted January 7, 2013 Even if it was consensual? That is the point of sexual harassment. He used his position to get her to "consent."
Author ObiWan Posted January 7, 2013 Author Posted January 7, 2013 That is the point of sexual harassment. He used his position to get her to "consent." Well I'm going to seriously think about it some more. I have the forms...I've had them for quite a while. It would stir up a hornet's nest so I am a little wary of that.
Oberfeldwebel Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 There is no sexual harassment here. While the law varies from state to state, they are all based on the fact of unwelcomed advances. She was not harassed, she was foolish and as you have already stated she is now remorseful of her actions. While it was obvious to you what he was doing, she was caught up in the fantasy of it all. It may be hard for others to understand why you would want to take her back, but it is not their call. They can do as they desire in their situation, but you have to do what you think is best for you. You appear to be doing well to me. You have taken control of your family and have not let this leach have anymore power over your family. Certainly you need to stay on top of the situation for awhile, but think that there is light at the end of the tunnel. Best wishes to you and your family.
Michael Johnson Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 That is the point of sexual harassment. He used his position to get her to "consent." No sexual harassment here. She willingly had an affair with him. If she didn't like his advances she could've reported him.
jnel921 Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 it sounds bad...but I am happy for you. My situation was bad too and we are working our way back as well. It is possible. Takes strength, forgiveness and lots of tears.... Tears helped to ease my pain. I love my husband, I haven't said that since our DDay.... I am not ready to tell him that just yet.
Rocket Man Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 A good friend of mine, a family doctor, did exactaly what your wife experienced to a couple of nurses in his office. One got pissed off at him and then ratted him out to the Medical Board. His license was suspended by The Board. After a year he got it back, but with condidtions. One condition was taking a polygraph every six months another was to submit to drug screening even though it was not drug related. He had some other requirements, but I forget what they were now. First hand, I know this to be true. So, I still think you should report that sack of shi% to The Board. It will be a very nice payback for the hell you have and will continue to go through and it may prevent that mother forker from doing it to another. Don't just lay there and take it bro.....kick his ass and if your wife doesn't like it too freaking bad. 1
Snowflower Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Well I'm going to seriously think about it some more. I have the forms...I've had them for quite a while. It would stir up a hornet's nest so I am a little wary of that. Think of his wife and their kids. If his license was suspended and he could not practice, where would this leave her? She has already been a victim of this affair...she is reeling from that, just like you are. If her financial security was threatened, then she has that to deal with as well. She and the kids do not deserve that. Do not be vindictive, because that is what this would be. If he had fired your wife for not submitting to his sexual advances, or had tried to force himself on her, that would be different. She willingly got involved with him. This is miserable enough...please don't spread the misery any further. He will get his punishment for what he has done. It doesn't need to be at your discretion.
Snowflower Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Read my post again. This was not a case of sexual harassment or where he forced himself on her. Please. The OP's wife is not a victim here. She chose to have an affair with him. Heck, she even left the OP for the dentist. That doesn't sound like she was any type of victim but a willing participant. If this scumbag dentist goes on to have an affair with another assistant, that is also that woman's choice as well (as well as the dentist's) Not the OP's. These are grown women giving their consent...not young girls. Maybe it makes some men feel better about their situation if they see their cheating wives as some type of victim of a predatory man.
Snowflower Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Hi ObiWan (cool name!), I feel for you in your situation. I am usually a very big supporter of reconciliation because that was my choice and situation. I am worried about you though. I have lived through reconciliation and it is the hardest thing I have ever done. I will never do it again and if my H were to cheat again, I would have to walk. Here is the tough love part: I know everyone is different but reconciliation is difficult no matter who you are. I think you really need to explore why you are willing to attempt reconciliation with a spouse who left you for their affair partner. The only reason she came back was because he didn't want her. It wasn't because she had an epiphany and realized she loved you and wanted your marriage. I'm so sorry. You need to understand that when a woman checks out of her marriage (and usually this is because she has checked in with someone else :sick:), that is it. She is never truly coming back, IMO. I am so sorry. You deserve better for yourself. There are a lot of wonderful women out there who would be thrilled to have a faithful, devoted man like you to love. Eventually, I hope you will find one of these women. 1
Snowflower Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 I don't say he forced her but he used his position of authority over her to overwhelm her... even giving her a job role for which she was not prepared... This is not a behavior you just can ignore... MAM, not directing this toward you but I still don't understand what the job role had to do with the affair. He could have just as easily have had an affair with her when she was in her first role as an assistant or office help or whatever it was. They were still around each other during work hours. I was just thinking of the other victims in this situation, the other BS and her children. I hope she divorces him.
Author ObiWan Posted January 8, 2013 Author Posted January 8, 2013 Think of his wife and their kids. If his license was suspended and he could not practice, where would this leave her? She has already been a victim of this affair...she is reeling from that, just like you are. If her financial security was threatened, then she has that to deal with as well. She and the kids do not deserve that. Do not be vindictive, because that is what this would be. If he had fired your wife for not submitting to his sexual advances, or had tried to force himself on her, that would be different. She willingly got involved with him. This is miserable enough...please don't spread the misery any further. He will get his punishment for what he has done. It doesn't need to be at your discretion. I know, believe me I know. This has been what has stayed my hand. I do feel terrible for his BS, and for the kids. It's just hard, you know? You always want a feeling of justice, and I know it will come sooner or later. But sometimes these things have a way of distorting our ability to be rational. Thankfully I haven't done anything stupid. 1
Mr. Lucky Posted January 8, 2013 Posted January 8, 2013 Once and for all, sexual harassment is defined as: "Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature" The courts recognize that voluntary sexual relationships do exist in the workplace (duh!). The key word is "unwelcome" - ObiWan, did your WS, through her words or actions, ever indicate to you that her OM's advances were "unwelcome" ? Mr. Lucky
Author ObiWan Posted January 8, 2013 Author Posted January 8, 2013 Once and for all, sexual harassment is defined as: "Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature" The courts recognize that voluntary sexual relationships do exist in the workplace (duh!). The key word is "unwelcome" - ObiWan, did your WS, through her words or actions, ever indicate to you that her OM's advances were "unwelcome" ? Mr. Lucky At first, and only at first. And it's not like it bothered her immensely. After a short while, she started to pay attention and liked the advances. The "oh he makes me feel wanted and beautiful" and blah blah.
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