StormySeas Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 I haven't been shy about telling my story and asking all of the experienced folks on here for advice, and also haven't been silent about why I think a polygraph may not make sense in my situation. BUT...my major hang-up concern with reconciliation right now definitely isn't a forward fear that my H will cheat again, it's that I somehow still don't have the whole truth. After going through denials for 2 years about a PA...to discovering slight PA evidence a few months ago, to a trickle of truth that led to my H telling me about having sex so I now apparently/allegedly/supposedly know the whole truth...we have started talking about a polygraph again. It seems like a polygraph is the only thing in the world that can provide any sort of external validation of his truth or continued lies. However, everything that I've read about the test is all over the map, so it certainly doesn't seem like a riskless decision to have him take it. He has agreed to consult with the best examiner that I can find and take the test if that's what I need. So, LSers...what have your polygraph experiences been like? Have you seen inaccuracies? Has it helped at all beyond resulting in parking lot confessions? If the test results have been what you wanted, does that help you move on or does it just make you question the validity of the test? "Well sure, you could beat the test though..." is not something that I want to hear come out of my mouth if we go through with him taking the test. Have any of you had personal experiences with errors in testing?
pteromom Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 The problem with a polygraph is that if he is a manipulative liar, he will know how to answer the questions so they are true, but not the whole truth, just like he's done with you. Plus, even if the polygraph comes back showing he's being truthful, 1. he's being truthful about lying in the first place, and 2. it doesn't keep him from lying again or cheating again. I don't think it would give you the peace of mind you are hoping for. So what do you hope to gain by having him take one? 1
carhill Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 While you're 'lining up' a polygrapher, have him tailed. Bird in the hand and all....
SidLyon Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 I haven't been shy about telling my story and asking all of the experienced folks on here for advice, and also haven't been silent about why I think a polygraph may not make sense in my situation. BUT...my major hang-up concern with reconciliation right now definitely isn't a forward fear that my H will cheat again, it's that I somehow still don't have the whole truth. After going through denials for 2 years about a PA...to discovering slight PA evidence a few months ago, to a trickle of truth that led to my H telling me about having sex so I now apparently/allegedly/supposedly know the whole truth...we have started talking about a polygraph again. It seems like a polygraph is the only thing in the world that can provide any sort of external validation of his truth or continued lies. However, everything that I've read about the test is all over the map, so it certainly doesn't seem like a riskless decision to have him take it. He has agreed to consult with the best examiner that I can find and take the test if that's what I need. So, LSers...what have your polygraph experiences been like? Have you seen inaccuracies? Has it helped at all beyond resulting in parking lot confessions? If the test results have been what you wanted, does that help you move on or does it just make you question the validity of the test? "Well sure, you could beat the test though..." is not something that I want to hear come out of my mouth if we go through with him taking the test. Have any of you had personal experiences with errors in testing? I fully understand the concern, but even though my H agreed to a polygraph it never happened. My experience in Australia is that the opportunity to take a polygraph test is limited. I found several Australian sites advertising them, but when I followed up some of them they all ended up with the same person answering the phone and quoting between $1500-$2000 to do the test. I think the same person has done radio stunts that included the inappropriate questioning of a young girl who admitted on air that she had been raped. See: Girl's rape revelation sinks radio lie detector stunt - TV & Radio - smh.com.au I know there are a few Australian posters here, so if anybody has a good polygraph experience in Australia, I'd love to hear it.
Snowflower Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) What do you hope to accomplish with the polygraph? If you get the whole truth, will it give you closure so that you can move on? What if it doesn't ultimately help YOU? You may have the "truth" but you still may not be able to move on. This won't be popular, but I cringe when someone suggests a BS should make their WS take a polygraph. I mean, can anything be more OTT, demeaning and humiliating than treating your WS like a criminal and subjecting yourself and your WS to painful, humiliating questions and answers? JMO. If you are at that point where you can't believe what your WS has told you, then you need to reconsider reconciling with them. Especially when it has been a couple of years, like I think you mention. IMO, a polygraph (if it is even accurate) will do one of two things, perhaps both... 1. You will find out that your spouse has been lying to you all the way along. 2. You will find out painful, humiliating details that impede your healing, especially after all this time. I remember thinking that if my H just did this, or just did that, that somehow it would be all better. I would be able to move forward. I would be able to heal. It took me a long time to learn for myself that closure truly comes from within YOU and not anything your spouse does. Eventually in your own time you realize you can either believe them...or not. A machine cannot do this for you. Only a BS can do that for themselves. I'm not sure this is the response you were looking for but I see a lot of similarities between you and me, StormySeas, as I've read your posts. I know we are also different women and we need different answers. I just don't want you to be hurt further. ((hugs)) Edited January 3, 2013 by Snowflower 1
SidLyon Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) What do you hope to accomplish with the polygraph? If you get the whole truth, will it give you closure so that you can move on? What if it doesn't ultimately help YOU? You may have the "truth" but you still may not be able to move on. This won't be popular, but I cringe when someone suggests a BS should make their WS take a polygraph. ... I tend to agree with this. When I enquired, I was told that questions had to be framed to give a yes or no answer. [As an aside I'd be interested to know if this is actually the case, does anyone know for sure?] Anyway assuming this is the case, it means the polygraph can't really reveal the "truth" or the "facts". At best it can just demonstrate whether or not your WS is telling the truth. Eg; if a question is asked "Have you told your spouse the truth about the number of affairs you have had" and the WS answers "yes", the polygraph might reveal this to be not the truth, but it says nothing about the number of affairs, who they were with, how long they lasted or any other details. Alternatively the WS could say "no", and the polygraph could show this to be the truth! Which leaves the BS nowhere... Edited January 3, 2013 by SidLyon
carhill Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 OP, you might wish to read this thread on the topic of polygraphs: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/278976-polygraph-testing If it's not personally identifiable information, what was the 'slight evidence' of a PA? The reason I mentioned the PI is such evidence developed can influence your personal decisions, even though H receives the roster of questions in the pre-examination interview. He can't be 'surprised' with information you develop independently but such information can be used to compare with the polygraph results. As I opined in that thread, I think it's a waste of time unless one has the bankroll and jurisdiction for a fault divorce.
kevinott Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Hi, I have a decent amount of experience with these tests, and sadly...i had my WS take one as she was caught in July 12. It was very costly, and only certain questions could be asked. You cannot ask questions of love. You can only ask questions where there is a definate answer. For example, you cannot ask, "do you love your spouse and want to reconcile.". you can ask regarding the affiar, something like this, "Were you truthful when you told your spouse you had sexual intercourse with your AP 6 times?" Its difficult to work this through, additionally, for a true polo to work, the questions must be limited. I was allowed 4 questions for an exam that took almost 3 hours. So, bottom line, if you are going to do this, research it well, find a good poly tech, and get your questions to that person ahead of time to assure they are questions that you will get a true reading from, best of luck to you...
SidLyon Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Hi, I have a decent amount of experience with these tests, and sadly...i had my WS take one as she was caught in July 12. It was very costly, and only certain questions could be asked. You cannot ask questions of love. You can only ask questions where there is a definate answer. For example, you cannot ask, "do you love your spouse and want to reconcile.". you can ask regarding the affiar, something like this, "Were you truthful when you told your spouse you had sexual intercourse with your AP 6 times?" Its difficult to work this through, additionally, for a true polo to work, the questions must be limited. I was allowed 4 questions for an exam that took almost 3 hours. So, bottom line, if you are going to do this, research it well, find a good poly tech, and get your questions to that person ahead of time to assure they are questions that you will get a true reading from, best of luck to you... Hmm, it does sound like questions asked require only a yes or no answer. This is what I was told.
Mickey_Fitzpatrick Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 (edited) Hi, I have a decent amount of experience with these tests, and sadly...i had my WS take one as she was caught in July 12. It was very costly, and only certain questions could be asked. You cannot ask questions of love. You can only ask questions where there is a definate answer. For example, you cannot ask, "do you love your spouse and want to reconcile.". you can ask regarding the affiar, something like this, "Were you truthful when you told your spouse you had sexual intercourse with your AP 6 times?" Its difficult to work this through, additionally, for a true polo to work, the questions must be limited. I was allowed 4 questions for an exam that took almost 3 hours. So, bottom line, if you are going to do this, research it well, find a good poly tech, and get your questions to that person ahead of time to assure they are questions that you will get a true reading from, best of luck to you... This is true. You generally get 3-4 yes/no questions for about $500. There will be a lot of other questions as "control" questions where the answer is known - Is it true that you have two feet? The examiner measures the subject's physical response to the yes and no answers on the control questions, then sees if the physical response is the same on the questions you want answered - Is it true that you only had sex one time with Jane Doe? The examiner will help you formulate the questions. A question like, do you love Jane Doe more than your wife? won't work. In the US, these are NOT admissible in court because they are not close to 100% accurate, however, they are FREQUENTLY used in criminal investigations because they DO have some value. Part of the value lies in the belief of the subject that the tests are VERY accurate, thus, many confess right before taking the test. Law enforcement are trained to detect liars, and this gives them one more avenue to observe the subject, regardless of the results of the test, and pick up on more tells that a subject may be lying. If someone does the research, there are methods to beat the test that you can find on the Internet. In my opinion, the cost of the test should be the least of your considerations. We are talking about your marriage here. With most criminals, and most cheaters, their stories do not make sense, and that is what trips them up. The problem with getting to the truth out of cheaters, as opposed to criminals, is that the betrayed spouse engages in wishful thinking, WANTING TO BELIEVE the cheater, while the criminal investigator has no such desire. Thus, cheaters can tell stories that don't make a bit of sense; e.g, we told each other how much we wanted to screw each other via email every day for three months, but when we met up three different times we only "kissed" once and just "held hands" the other two times; and the betrayed spouse will post here, "I can't get over that they kissed once and held hands twice" as if that's all that really happened. Edited January 4, 2013 by Mickey_Fitzpatrick
Oberfeldwebel Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 Stormy, polygraphs are excellent for what they are designed to do and he won't be able to beat the test. However, it won't get you detailed information or questions about feelings, that is not what they are designed to do. So if you want to know if he had sex with someone else, it will get you the truth to a yes or no answer. The details of that liaison will not be revealed in the exam. You need to meet with the examiner to develop the questions that you want answers to and he will take it from there. They can tell the difference between nerves and lying. Depending on the question you are wanting know, it will at worse come back as inconclusive. Best of luck to you.
Author StormySeas Posted January 4, 2013 Author Posted January 4, 2013 It's funny, in s many of my previous posts I felt like there was an overwhelmingly pro polygraph stance on here that I was a moron for not forcing my H to take it. 2.5 years ago, I confronted him about whether he was having a PA given he had become very close friends with a mutual friend of ours. He said no, we went into therapy, learned all about EAs, PAs, being friends with the opposite sex, etc. Through at period, he lied over and over that there was nothing physical, and made his own decision to go totally NC with our "friend" who got ostracized from our collective group of friends when everyone realized that she was putting a strain on our marriage. While I always felt there was something physical that had to have happened, I was much more focused on my H becoming a better father and spouse than on finding out the real truth then via going through phone records, emails, etc. Fast forward to this September and I checked his phone when he got a late night text (harmless text from an auto service re a football touchdown)...and decided to also do a quick email search on his phone to see if he was still NC. A very old blackberry messenger conversation came up (I have no idea why I never saw it before) describing a kiss. Over the next two months, my H admitted to a PA and sex three times along with some very hurtful details related to those encounters. It didn't all come out at once, but he has been consistently adamant for two months that I know everything now. 2.5 years ago he was sure I would divorce him because he'd been a really crappy father to our colicky son and husband to me (went out too much, didn't help much, etc. -- although I was a total control freak about our son too). Anyway, I just feel hung up on whether I have "it all" now. I'm not hung up on the future...I really don't think this would happen again as we've both learned so much about our relationship, relationships with others, etc. He has really grown up and over the last two years has become the man (strong H and father) that I want. So the polygraph is just an idea...and I waffle so much on if it's the dumbed idea or a good additional healing too. I appreciate all of your responses and honesty very much.
BetrayedH Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 I definitely recommend you listen to Alice on this subject as she used one with her husband and strongly endorses them. Shoot her a PM if she doesn't chime in. This next part may sound silly but I recently watched an episode of Mythbusters where they made multliple attempts to fool a poly. I won't say that such an entertainment-based show will completely convince me of anything but I definitely came away from watching that show with much more confidence that a good polygrapher is a damn tough thing to beat. It was enough that I would not hesitate to use it as a tool in a situation like yours. Frankly, I can only imagine your relief if you discover that he has been honest. My $.02
2sure Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 I considered it with my X. He was a very accomplished liar and had deceived me long term between 2 ddays. I felt he was incapable of telling the truth. I knew that if he "passed" a poly test he would feel justified saying I was paranoid if I wasn't satisfied with the questions afterward. I knew that no matter the results, that I would still not trust him. So, there was no point.
Keenly Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 I'm sorry that my advice probably wont help you, but I just have to say : If it's gotten to the point where the polygraph is even a considerable option, it might be time to cut your losses.
Author StormySeas Posted January 4, 2013 Author Posted January 4, 2013 Keenly, any advice is fair game, just like I think every option in the world right now that can lessen my pain and/or reduce trust issues and/or be constructive in any way must be considered. Many BSs swear by the threat of a polygraph as a major tool in parking lot confessions, etc. I'm just trying to understand what the pro/cons of polygraph use have been so while your advice is totally fair game, I think that the consideration of a polygraph being a proving indicator that this marriage is done is a little too simple.
coffeebean201 Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 Hi StormySeas - love your name. I wouldn't go for the polygraph. What is really bugging you is how he lied so much about the physical interactions. And him doing a polygraph won't change that whopper. Trust is built slowly over time, and one day you may wake up again and suddenly know that you trust him again (both of you grown from experience and not so much stress on marriage etc) Sounds like he is "as is". And for now you seem to want to keep him.
BetrayedH Posted January 4, 2013 Posted January 4, 2013 Hi StormySeas - love your name. I wouldn't go for the polygraph. What is really bugging you is how he lied so much about the physical interactions. And him doing a polygraph won't change that whopper. Trust is built slowly over time, and one day you may wake up again and suddenly know that you trust him again (both of you grown from experience and not so much stress on marriage etc) Sounds like he is "as is". And for now you seem to want to keep him. (No offense intended to the previous poster). Maybe I am just bitter but this warm and fuzzy stuff does nothing for me. I could have just as easily quit investigating my WW well before I did and just said something like, "Well, it appears I want to trust her so I guess I should just do that and stop investigating since trust is built over time and I will know over time if this was the right choice." I'm glad I kept investigating or I never would have discovered that she was still lying straight to my ****ing face. Who wants to reconcile with someone like that? If your H wants to reconcile, he can just freakin' put up with whatever you feel you need to do or he can walk out the door. If he's not disagreeing about the poly, I don't know why anyone else would. Is it perfect to restore trust in the WS? Nope. There is no silver bullet. Is it yet one more tool to help a WS reestablish trust with the BS? Sure as hell is. Do whatever you feel you need to do, Stormy. 1
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