What men say they want vs. what they really want...

[PhoenixRysing]

The one thing that many of these men might be thinking and I am ashamed to say I have felt it at times is if you have all these things what do you need a man for. The I don't need a man mentality you sometimes hear expressed has given men a complex about what they can offer a woman.

 

Woggle, thank you for your candor. I do understand that, which is why I am careful to always be clear why exactly I do in fact need a man in my life. I struggle though to find a way that resonates with men since most have taught a certain role to fill for women, and you are right in that regard I don't need a man.

 

I do my best to make the men in my life feel wanted, desired, and to be clear why each is special to me. It does not seem to be enough to convince them. I would love your ideas for how to help men understand me when I try to convey how much their company and presence in my life make a difference - even if I don't need their money or help with power tools.

[PhoenixRysing]

Ah, okay. I assume you live in a city in the USA?

 

The men I know actually do generally want to be needed by a woman, and to be able to take care of her in some way. I don't think it's insecurity so much as, well, the traditional male instinct of wanting to be able to provide tangible care and protection to a woman. That arouses feelings of love and warmth towards her, feelings of masculinity, and confidence. Of course, there's a balance to be struck here, as most of them certainly wouldn't sign up to be with a woman who expected him to do everything for her, but they do seem to want to be just a little more on the other side.

 

But that is just my culture, and I would assume that the USA is different. Perhaps not? Do you allow them to do anything at all for you? For instance, even if you make more, if they insist on treating you to a date, do you let them? Do you let them drive if they want to, even if your car is better? Do you let them do anything nice for you, tangible things, if they offer?

 

I am in the USA. I most definitely let a man take care of me in any way he offers. While I am independent and capable, I truly appreciate chivalry and general male presence. I do not wish to be a man, and I absolutely revel in a man who takes care of me in any way. I love when men treat me to dinner, pull out my chair, hold me in their arms, give me a back rub, and in general treat me well. After the first few dates (where for safety reasons I tend to meet them out) I love when a man picks me up, drives us to our destination, and shows off his choices for our dining and entertainment. I am also very sure to thank them for any and all such efforts so they can be sure that I appreciate them.

[Els]

Mmm, don't know what else to say, then. I suppose it could be insecurity on their part, or them putting you on a pedestal, or the men you choose all do have some similarities that you don't fully realize but you selected based on subconscious desires. Hard to tell over the internet, sadly.

[Woggle]

Woggle, thank you for your candor. I do understand that, which is why I am careful to always be clear why exactly I do in fact need a man in my life. I struggle though to find a way that resonates with men since most have taught a certain role to fill for women, and you are right in that regard I don't need a man.

 

I do my best to make the men in my life feel wanted, desired, and to be clear why each is special to me. It does not seem to be enough to convince them. I would love your ideas for how to help men understand me when I try to convey how much their company and presence in my life make a difference - even if I don't need their money or help with power tools.

 

I am sure it is nothing that you are doing. Any woman or man for that matter should be able to stand on her own but the way some man haters have turned into a hostile saying has made some men foolishly avoid accomplished women because they feel useless.

 

As for me I know my wife loves me and I have gotten over those issues because it was stupid to feel that way but I understand the place where it comes from.

[NoMoreJerks]

Maybe you remind them of their mom. I know, crazy thing to say, but I 've seen some very messed up men who associate such good behaviours/traits in a woman with their mom, and then think that they're like, um, dating their mom, etc. It's crazy but some men are crazy / insecure / have issues.

[PinkSapphire]

Ok, good response, and I can see more now why you may be having issues.

 

Men do not understand love in the way we women do; they really do feel the need to be needed. I have heard countless times from men that they want to be the "knight in shining armor" or to save a "damsel in distress" (yes, they have used these tired phrases). Basically, they watch Disney, too, and dream of being the Prince who saves his woman.

 

I was taught early on that even if you are totally capable and independent on your own, to allow a man to do things for you. It is even better and more flattering to him if you ask him for his help. There is no greater compliment you can give a man than to really show him you prefer him to do things for you (because obviously he is just so d*** good at it ).

 

I am taking from your responses that, while you do allow a man to offer ot help you and pay for you, etc. that you are independent and probably don't ever ask for his help. Unfortunately, this communicates to almost all men that you don't actually cherish or value them (despite your words and the truth I agree with that we just want them for their presence, their jokes, their companionship, and sex). When a man does not feel needed he tends to feel worthless. Thus, the necessity for a man to work or be constantly busy, which is annoying most times. Just relax!

 

Really, that is the only critique I can offer. My other baseless assumptions seem to be quite off the mark, so that is it. Maybe try asking for help with things you know you can easily do yourself?

[EasyHeart]

-- It could be that you're dating insecure/emotionally unavailable men, which means your people-picker is off for some reason. If that's the case, you need to figure out why that is. There are lots of good resources out there for doing so.

 

-- I hate to be the one to break it to you ladies, but men lie. When we're breaking up with you, our overwhelming priority is avoid drama, crying, thrown vases, etc. so we'll say pretty much anything we can think of to keep you calm. That includes the usual "It's not you, it's me" nonsense and "You're too good for me". We don't mean a word of it; it's you, not us and we're way too good for you, but there is no way in hell we're going to say that to you.

 

-- I don't know any (non-screwed up) men who want women who are "submissive". What we want is a woman who isn't going to nag, complain, criticize and look down upon us. When you think, "But I'm just trying to improve him!" you're not -- you're being a bitch.

 

-- Nowadays, if a man gets into his 30s and is single, has a good well-paying career, can dress himself nicely and carry on a conversation that doesn't involve sports or video games, he has his pick of pretty much any woman he wants. Again, I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but I couldn't care less if a woman has a great career, a stack of degrees and makes a lot of money because I have all those things already. Those things don't add anything to my life. I want a woman who respects me and is fun to be around, not one who is either going to be competing with me or criticizing me all the time.

[Fondue]

Those traits that you listed IS a perfect woman.

 

I doubt they exist. If you know where I can find one, please let me know. I'd be very appreciative.

[PhoenixRysing]

PinkSapphire - I get what you are saying and I do struggle with requesting a mans assistance. It just doesn't often occur to me to ask for help, from anyone. When I do, I often feel like I am putting people out and I really do not like to impose. At some point I also got it into my head that I should be entirely self-sufficient so I feel a bit of a failure when I ask for help. I have been working on that though and this past year have reached out to my circle much more with very positive response. As for the men in my life, I could focus on more on ways they might contribute and see what happens with asking for help...of course I'll need to have a date first.

 

EasyHeart - your bluntness is appreciated. I have considered the possibility that men are simply trying to let me down easy to avoid the potential for hysterics and while I can't throw it out entirely, my experiences after those relationships indicates otherwise. Too many of them (in fact all of them to date with the exception of the most recent) have come back after the fact wanting to remain in my life, be given a second chance, or once friend-zoned spend rediculous amounts of time with me lamenting why their current loves can't be more like me. It's sad really. I often remind them that they really don't want that - after all, I'm just like me and they left me behind.

[PhoenixRysing]

Those traits that you listed IS a perfect woman.

 

I doubt they exist. If you know where I can find one, please let me know. I'd be very appreciative.

 

East Coast...down south...typing a response to LS even now...

[Fondue]

East Coast...down south...typing a response to LS even now...

Bah, lemme get on the I-95, I'll see you in a bit!

[PinkSapphire]

Yup, I was raised the same way. It was very hard for me at first, but when I saw how much they lit up and couldn't wait to help me, show me how they were doing whatever it was, and then go even further to do things not asked of them, I learned that it is true: men just love to be able to help.

 

But then, so do I; I really love it when a girlfriend asks for my help with something. I feel so flattered that she wanted *my* help; she must think I'm good at it!

 

I am lucky that a lot of older women drilled it into me, as well as some magazines, in my pre-teen/early teen years. Try it on one or two guy friends even, it's fun to see them get so excited and happy. Just, try not to laugh. I remember being so amazed and thinking how cute they were that I almost laughed the first few times. DON'T!

[EasyHeart]

EasyHeart - your bluntness is appreciated. I have considered the possibility that men are simply trying to let me down easy to avoid the potential for hysterics and while I can't throw it out entirely, my experiences after those relationships indicates otherwise. Too many of them (in fact all of them to date with the exception of the most recent) have come back after the fact wanting to remain in my life, be given a second chance, or once friend-zoned spend rediculous amounts of time with me lamenting why their current loves can't be more like me. It's sad really. I often remind them that they really don't want that - after all, I'm just like me and they left me behind.

That tells me that the guys are screwed up. Look at Baggage Reclaim or other sites about emotionally unavailable men and see if any of those descriptions sound familiar.

[PhoenixRysing]

Yup, I was raised the same way. It was very hard for me at first, but when I saw how much they lit up and couldn't wait to help me, show me how they were doing whatever it was, and then go even further to do things not asked of them, I learned that it is true: men just love to be able to help.

 

But then, so do I; I really love it when a girlfriend asks for my help with something. I feel so flattered that she wanted *my* help; she must think I'm good at it!

 

I am lucky that a lot of older women drilled it into me, as well as some magazines, in my pre-teen/early teen years. Try it on one or two guy friends even, it's fun to see them get so excited and happy. Just, try not to laugh. I remember being so amazed and thinking how cute they were that I almost laughed the first few times. DON'T!

 

I do love helping others and am always one of the first to jump in - for some reason that has never translated to understanding the reverse. One of my many quirks I suppose. I will definitely give it a shot...ahem whenever Fondue gets here.

 

Fondue, on your way, can you pick up something to eat? I'm too busy posting on LS to cook dinner.

 

How am I doing?

[Fondue]

I do love helping others and am always one of the first to jump in - for some reason that has never translated to understanding the reverse. One of my many quirks I suppose. I will definitely give it a shot...ahem whenever Fondue gets here.

 

Fondue, on your way, can you pick up something to eat? I'm too busy posting on LS to cook dinner.

 

How am I doing?

Only if you'll have a bottle of wine ready for when I get there!

[PhoenixRysing]

Only if you'll have a bottle of wine ready for when I get there!

 

I have a nice Cabernet at room temperature and a Chardonay chilled in the refridgerator.

 

Pink - I think it's working!!!!

[Fondue]

I have a nice Cabernet at room temperature and a Chardonay chilled in the refridgerator.

 

Pink - I think it's working!!!!

So we got the food and wine settled, now we need the music to set the ambiance.

 

What do you think of smooth jazz?

[KungFuJoe]

Basically, men want a woman who is strong and independent, but isn't afraid of a man's help.

[Lonely Ronin]

Basically, men want a woman who is strong and independent, but isn't afraid of a man's help.

 

I agree with that.

[kaylan]

I have struggled with how to write this without it coming across as arrogant or trollish. I've not figured out how to do it so I ask that you please forgive any leans toward that in my language.

 

I understand from talking to all of the males in my life and reading for years here on LS that men want:

 

1. Someone who doesn't play games, who is good to them, and loves them as they are.

2. Someone beautiful and sexy who thoroughly enjoys and is excited about sex.

3. Someone who won't cheat or lie or try to change them.

4. Someone who is strong and independent (not clingy or desperate) but knows how to love openly.

5. Someone who has her own life, makes her own money, and is not a gold digger.

6. Someone who can cook, clean, make a home, but isn't stuck in that role.

7. Someone adventurous and ready to take chances.

You seem to pretty much have a good idea here of what a good guy wants in a good woman. For me number 3 is the biggest one in my love life. I abhor lying and cheating and always expect honesty and loyalty. So much that I dont date girls who have a past in which they cheated or lied to their boyfriends.

 

If you got all 7 down, usually a person should do fine in dating...but sadly dating is rough to many of us.

 

Basically someone just like me. But instead of falling madly in love with me, every man I have dated tells me the same thing plus or minus:

 

"You are beautiful, kind, amazing, sexy, intelligent, wonderful, insert something else really awesome here, but I just don't see a future for us."

 

Usually they follow that up with something about how they aren't good enough for me, I deserve someone better, I would just leave them for something better....etc. Then they go on to chase after women who abuse them, lie to them, already have a husband, and generally treat them like trash.

Basically all this means is there was something about you that they felt was a dealbreaker, or they didnt feel that spark that let them know you were their "it girl". Their loss really.

 

And I especially hate when someone dumps me and tells me that I deserve better and they cant be who they should be for me. Or how they need to work on themselves. Its a fancy way of saying "its not you, its me" when in reality there is something about the person being dumped, that keeps the dumper from staying with them. Its usually not that the dumper truly feels that the person their dumping deserves better...its that the dumper knows they want someone they feel fits better with them at the moment.

So really, what gives? I am at a loss here. I have dated different kinds of men from different walks of life and the literally all say the same thing. Most of them eventually come back and tell me what a mistake they made in leaving me and then go on to tell me what a great woman I am and how they wish they had valued me when they had the chance. While that is nice to hear, I wonder where all the men are that actually can appreciate me when I am with them?

Hindsight is 20/20 and after they get burned elsewhere, they try to use you as a fall back. They realize they had it good and lost a great woman. Never take someone back after they bail on you. Its hard to rebuild that trust. I know itd take A LOT for me to ever consider that, because the girl could just leave me again.

 

I usually have a 1 shot rule for women. They get 1 chance with me, and if they reject me, thats it forever. You dont get to test drive me, and then test drive someone else and then decide you want me.

If you really want a great woman, why run when she is right there trying to love you? And as a woman, if you really are all the things a man wants, shouldn't your options reflect that? In my life I have found that the opposite is true. Men don't even ask me out. All of my relationships have stemmed from friendships where I finally asked the man out. Without fail, only then have they admitted to harboring feelings (sometimes for years) but never acting because they assumed I would not be interested...that I was "too perfect."

Hmmm. Im sure an empircally attractive female should have plenty of men asking her out.

 

Either way, I kinda can understand the "too perfect" part. I kinda feel thats what happened with the girl I was just seeing. She seemed so intimidated by how good I was too her and how "hot" I apparently was. The way shed overrate me (in my opinion) and put herself down, made me feel like she felt she lucked and wasnt in my league.

 

She was always telling me how great I was and apologizing for silly things. It made me feel bad. I wonder if part of why she bailed was because she was scared Id bail first.

 

I am trying desperately here to state this as fact and not as my own opinion of what I bring to the table. I am not conceited, quite the opposite, and I recognize my own flaws, quirks, and room to grow. But based on the words of the men in my life, I am the best thing since sliced bread. They just can't be with me or take a chance on me.

Lol....Ive had this happen to me a few times. Where girls tell me how interesting, amazing, unique, and special I am. Things usually move very fast and they fall super quickly for me...and then comes the drama. Oh wells...such is life.

I am genuinely confused. I am by all accounts "awesome" and I can't get a date or keep a man around. So I guess I am looking for answers and I really do want to understand what I am doing wrong.

As I said before...an attractive chick should be able to get dates. You sure you aint turning down decent fellas who send you signals?

[NoMoreJerks]

lol,

 

And I especially hate when someone dumps me and tells me that I deserve better and they cant be who they should be for me. Or how they need to work on themselves. Its a fancy way of saying "its not you, its me" when in reality there is something about the person being dumped, that keeps the dumper from staying with them.

 

I had this done to me 10 days ago by my bf (now my ex). The only difference was that he did tell me a number of reasons why it couldn't work (mostly accusing me of not being good enough for him), only to then add that he couldn't make me happy, that I deserve someone who can give me the attention I deserve, etc. IMO, those people are cowards and just trying to weasel their way out of feeling guilty for dumping a woman/man who treated them really well unlike other men/women in the past.

[youngnlove89]

Okay listen, I've been through this also. My last ex bf did the same exact thing, he gave me the honorary title of "best woman ever" right before he kicked me to the ground and said, "but you're just not the one."

 

When a guy says that you are fabulous, beautiful, intelligent, witty etc, he means it BUT he means it in a way that implies "you are a good person and you will find someone who can enjoy those great qualities, but I just can't get that CHEMISTRY with you."

 

Basically, he is letting you down easy because he does care and love you in some way, just not THAT way. It took me enough breakups to look past the "I'm great, articulate, sexy capable women" line and start looking at it for what it really, truly was: He just wasn't that into me.

 

It's not YOUR fault, nor his. It's just how he feels. Ever meet a great guy who is romantic, funny, smart, great smile, loyal, great job, but for some reason you can't find that spark in him? This is why. This is exactly how he feels.

 

So, instead you meet guys who are emotionally constipated because deep down inside you are emotionally constipated.

 

Maybe, it's YOU who needs to change what you look for in a guy...Maybe you are picking all the wrong guys and looking past the ones who would actually treat you right and appreciate you.

 

Trust me, I'm right here with you and it took me long enough to realize that I was my own worst enemy.

[veggirl]

Ah, okay. I assume you live in a city in the USA?

 

The men I know actually do generally want to be needed by a woman, and to be able to take care of her in some way. I don't think it's insecurity so much as, well, the traditional male instinct of wanting to be able to provide tangible care and protection to a woman. That arouses feelings of love and warmth towards her, feelings of masculinity, and confidence. Of course, there's a balance to be struck here, as most of them certainly wouldn't sign up to be with a woman who expected him to do everything for her, but they do seem to want to be just a little more on the other side.

 

I totally agree with all of this, and in addition I think that part of a man feeling masculine etc is his woman being feminine.

 

Are you that? Do you do the stereotypical feminine things? Cooking for him and cleaning, etc? Men like feminine women.

 

If nothing anyone has said is "it" then there is something else......like has been said you can be perfect on paper but perhaps your personality is too weird or too over the top or something like that..?

 

the thing you'll notice with the needy girls these guys end up with is that the needy girl is typically very girly. A guy can say all he wants is strong and independent but at the end of the day he still wants a WOMAN. the things you listed in your OP could apply to his male best friend, apart from sex.

Edited January 3, 2013 by veggirl

[NoMoreJerks]

^ OK, a bit confused here. So men want needy, girly women?? Needy in what way? But then I often hear men say that a girl is acting too needy. One can never win with some people these days. It seems to me that , in the case of some (emotionally unavailable men), women are damned if they're needy and damned if they're not...

 

I don't get it. Maybe I'm missing something.

[TheFinalWord]

I understand from talking to all of the males in my life and reading for years here on LS that men want:

 

1. Someone who doesn't play games, who is good to them, and loves them as they are.

2. Someone beautiful and sexy who thoroughly enjoys and is excited about sex.

3. Someone who won't cheat or lie or try to change them.

4. Someone who is strong and independent (not clingy or desperate) but knows how to love openly.

5. Someone who has her own life, makes her own money, and is not a gold digger.

6. Someone who can cook, clean, make a home, but isn't stuck in that role.

7. Someone adventurous and ready to take chances.

 

Welcome to LS!

 

I'm very sorry you were treated in such a way. No offense to your list, but to me those all seem like great attributes, but they are also very surfacy. Heck, Kim Kardashian would probably fit many of those attributes. But there is no way I would want to have a relationship with such a woman. Here are other things that might supplement your list that might help:

 

Do you have a vision for your life that you are passionate about and that I could share in? (that's what gets me excited about a woman)

Do you have a spiritual dimension? Do you pray for me, speak to my spirit, believe in me when no one else does?

Do you fill in my areas where I am lacking so that together we would make a stronger team in life?

How do you handle conflict?

Are you okay to tell me where I need improvement, but patient enough to give time to grow? I believe a woman can very much prune a man and God will use a woman to do that.

Are you kind? Gentle?

Do you have wisdom (different than intelligence)?

At 35, do you have motherly attributes that I could see you as the mother of my children (assuming you want a family?)

Are you a good steward with you life, resources, and time?

Do you have any vices which could frustrate a man such as much drama in your life, overbearing family strife, party to much, drink too much, etc?

 

I could go on, but while I'm sure you are a great woman. Many men look for other things beyond just the surface resume. I do anyway Wishing you much success in 2013. I hope this doesn't seem harsh and again welcome to LS.