Something’s different…

[LadyRecovery]

well, is that a good thing or a bad thing for you?

 

It's a good thing he doesn't speak badly about his wife, but to not speak of her at all?

 

is that to help you or him or both of you forget that he is married to another woman who awaits his return home twice a month; maybe as excited to see him as you are?

 

Why have you not asked him about his wife, now that you do know of her?

 

Sheesh....I am amazed always at wht is purposely not talked about during affairs!

 

.....Reality should never intrude on fantasy.....until it does and all hell breaks loose.

 

WHAT do you want out of this relationship? How do you perceive the future? Are you happy with things the way they are now?

I think it is good that he doesn't talk badly about her. He has really only said that she is emotionally unavailable and has been progressively more so each year. When he got sober, she finally went into Alanon and has learned to care for her own emotional needs apart from years of taking care of him in active addiction.

 

He doesn't like to talk about her. Perhaps trying to keep the two separate? They have been married over 30 years. There is a 15 year age difference between us which is not a problem for me.

 

As for being happy, when I first found out, I tried to end it twice. I let him romance me back. At the time, I really think he was lonley - he told me at first he just wanted company and temporary sex (way after the face of course.) He got pretty honest I believe. Today things seem to be different. He really treats me with love (while we are together.) He calls and texts when he is home which I don't expect. I don't initiate contact. He has told me he loves me and is in love.

 

Last night for New Years, had a wonderful time. He told me he needed to call home and walked away for a minute and phoned his wife right before the end of the year. He came back and apologized to me. That was surprising and I told him not to be sorry. I have not put any expectations on him or asked him for anything.

 

A bit of my backstory, I spent many years not dating. I lost a husband and then my fiance died suddenly. ( No children) I stopped dating in order to heal and work on myself. Built a wonder independent life for myself and only recently started dating again this year. Met many wonderful men and then the MM. I started falling for him before discovering he was married.

 

Sorry to ramble. I'm sure my situation is no different from other A's. I came here to hear the other side and gain insight as there are few in my life I am comfortable talking with about this. Please ask questions. It scares me a bit that I am becoming ok with this for now. I'm asking myself what kind of person I am turning into and why. Uncharted territory...

 

Also, when out last night, we were seen by a coworker of his and some people we both know. He didn't seem bothered at all and showed affection for me in front of them. THAT is totally new and strange. Unexpected and unsure why he reacted like that. I always thought he would back away and pretend that we just bumped into each other or something.... He almost seemed relieved and was more loving after. Also, the circumstances of how we met are that he could lose his job and career from dating me. We do not work together.

 

So, that's a little more information. What are you seeing in this? What am I in for?

[LadyRecovery]

Do you want a R with him or are you open only to an A?

 

Men who omit sharing they are married are the worst. He manipulated you, and made it hard for you to stop once you found out he was married.

Thought a lot about this, being brutally honest the answer is yes, I want a relationship with him. It is an A, but already a relationship to some degree. However, of course I don't want others to get hurt. At some point, somebody will get hurt. No illusions about that whatsoever. He's going to hurt no matter what, since eventually something will have to give. Not today, but at some point.

[woinlove]

Call to wife known to you, then back to you for more loving, affection in front of co-workers -- sounds like he is getting used to the double life and feels pretty secure in how he maintains the two spheres. I think men who go in for this kind of behavior can feel pretty cocky having a wife and a younger girlfriend. He may even be kind of proud of how he is pulling it all off, in a yucky unethical way. Recall he did a lot of cheating before, so he is a bit of a pro at this.

 

Really, I hate to see you involved in this. Life can be so much better. But, I guess this is giving you what you want for now. It could be worse. He could leave his wife and then you might feel obliged to be with him. And who would you be with? Well, a man like this. Really after all his previous cheating and now this, I doubt he will really change. Not many do after multiple affairs.

Edited January 1, 2013 by woinlove

[2sunny]

I was looking for truth which I seem to have gotten. I didn't look at this from the angle that he was becoming accustomed to the guilt. He is obviously better able to compartmentalize things now. Not good. That's why I posted. To get another perspective on the change last night.

 

So now you understand he can cheat without guilt? That's no prize - yet he expects you to think it is.

 

Does he give you money?

[LadyRecovery]

Call to wife known to you, then back to you for more loving, affection in front of co-workers -- sounds like he is getting used to the double life and feels pretty secure in how he maintains the two spheres. I think men who go in for this kind of behavior can feel pretty cocky having a wife and a younger girlfriend. He may even be kind of proud of how he is pulling it all off, in a yucky unethical way. Recall he did a lot of cheating before, so he is a bit of a pro at this.

 

Really, I hate to see you involved in this. Life can be so much better. But, I guess this is giving you what you want for now. It could be worse. He could leave his wife and then you might feel obliged to be with him. And who would you be with? Well, a man like this. Really after all his previous cheating and now this, I doubt he will really change. Not many do after multiple affairs.

I can understand the prior cheating away and justify it to myself because he was in very active addiction for years and had dozens of PA's. However, having history with addiction myself, this is not uncommon. He holds fast to his telling me this is his first A in recovery.

 

What scares me is that he really could lose his job and career over this and he didn't seem to care (at least last night and this morning). Perhaps more cocky? We were seen at an outdoor event.

 

He still says things like, "I'm not divorced yet." and "I wish I wasn't married." I posted many of the things he's said in the thread about lines your MM or MW have told you. Also in ComingInHot's thread about I'm your MM's Wife. Her insights were amazing. Almost exactly what I thought his wife would say about most things. The major difference was about her reaction to this EA, he has already told me that if she found out there is no question she would leave him.

 

He has made statements about how he has a wife and a girlfriend and how wrong it is. However, he is becoming increasingly ok with this....why? He says he's staying in the moment and living just for today. Not sure how long that can continue...

[LadyRecovery]

So now you understand he can cheat without guilt? That's no prize - yet he expects you to think it is.

 

Does he give you money?

No he doesn't give me money. I don't need anything like that from him or anyone else. In fact, I refuse to let him pay for dinner all the time or buy me anything. I'm used to taking care of myself.

[LadyRecovery]

Why would he seem bothered by it? If the man travels home twice a month, then being seen with you would not interfere with his real life.

 

Besides, you thought he was single when you met. These other people may be under the same impression. He may have told people he's separated or not married. He could easily hide the fact that he's married. Only human resources needs to know that information.

 

Why would the "circumstances of how you met" cause him to lose his career?

Part of his real life and future career is contingent upon his colleagues and their evaluations of his performance here. They are well aware he is married (I know them) and has been for so a long time. He was on the team of professionals that was responsible for my care for a month.

[woinlove]

I can understand the prior cheating away and justify it to myself because he was in very active addiction for years and had dozens of PA's. However, having history with addiction myself, this is not uncommon. He holds fast to his telling me this is his first A in recovery.

 

What scares me is that he really could lose his job and career over this and he didn't seem to care (at least last night and this morning). Perhaps more cocky? We were seen at an outdoor event.

 

He still says things like, "I'm not divorced yet." and "I wish I wasn't married." I posted many of the things he's said in the thread about lines your MM or MW have told you. Also in ComingInHot's thread about I'm your MM's Wife. Her insights were amazing. Almost exactly what I thought his wife would say about most things. The major difference was about her reaction to this EA, he has already told me that if she found out there is no question she would leave him.

 

He has made statements about how he has a wife and a girlfriend and how wrong it is. However, he is becoming increasingly ok with this....why? He says he's staying in the moment and living just for today. Not sure how long that can continue...

 

He didn't tell you upfront that he was married. That is a pretty big lie. Most MM are at least honest about their marital status, even if they lie about the state of the M, previous affairs or other things. I would not take his word for you being his first sober A, unless you can independently verify this. Hopefully, you don't care how many affairs he has had, when and with whom. If you do, I would guess that this is not the man for you.

 

Stay in the moment? That's basically a mantra for an affair, isn't it? Once you get out of the moment, you'll want a man without a wife. A man you could trust.

[LadyRecovery]

He didn't tell you upfront that he was married. That is a pretty big lie. Most MM are at least honest about their marital status, even if they lie about the state of the M, previous affairs or other things. I would not take his word for you being his first sober A, unless you can independently verify this. Hopefully, you don't care how many affairs he has had, when and with whom. If you do, I would guess that this is not the man for you.

 

Stay in the moment? That's basically a mantra for an affair, isn't it? Once you get out of the moment, you'll want a man without a wife. A man you could trust.

It was a lie of omission. He didn't say either way. No ring, lives alone in a condo. I should have asked, but just assumed he wasn't. He confessed later this started out for him as a fling and that's why he didn't tell me. A couple weeks later when he started developing feelings, he told me and cried that he felt so horrible about this - that this was never supposed to happen.

 

As to other sober A's, I don't have any way to verify this. However, IF I found out this was not his first, I would be gone in two seconds. I will probably not find out since he wasn't living here during most of that time.

 

You are right about the stay in the moment. Although this is a big part of recovery, I really have to evaluate how much of these slogans are being used as a means to justify this A and the future.

 

Of course I want a man without a wife that I can trust. I wish there weren't all these feelings involved. I don't fall in love easily. It is shocking how quickly this happened here. Not normal for me at all.

 

Tomorrow is another day. Each day I feel different about this. I'll see what's in store for me then.

[Catplates]

I can understand the prior cheating away and justify it to myself because he was in very active addiction for years and had dozens of PA's. However, having history with addiction myself, this is not uncommon. He holds fast to his telling me this is his first A in recovery.

 

What scares me is that he really could lose his job and career over this and he didn't seem to care (at least last night and this morning). Perhaps more cocky? We were seen at an outdoor event.

 

He still says things like, "I'm not divorced yet." and "I wish I wasn't married." I posted many of the things he's said in the thread about lines your MM or MW have told you. Also in ComingInHot's thread about I'm your MM's Wife. Her insights were amazing. Almost exactly what I thought his wife would say about most things. The major difference was about her reaction to this EA, he has already told me that if she found out there is no question she would leave him.

 

He has made statements about how he has a wife and a girlfriend and how wrong it is. However, he is becoming increasingly ok with this....why? He says he's staying in the moment and living just for today. Not sure how long that can continue...

 

Is there a difference between having an affair in recovery to having one out of recovery? Isn't it still an affair.

 

It sounds like he is revelling in having two women. If his consience bothered him, he wouldn't be doing it.

 

ONly peter Pan lives just for today... tomorrow will catch up with him sometime and then you could be dumped.

 

I think you are wanting reassurance that he loves you and that it will be a lasting relationship... chances are stacked against it.

 

If this man is risking his career by being seen in public with you then he has a reckless streak that could lead you to disaster.

 

Cat.

[2sunny]

It was a lie of omission. He didn't say either way. No ring, lives alone in a condo. I should have asked, but just assumed he wasn't. He confessed later this started out for him as a fling and that's why he didn't tell me. A couple weeks later when he started developing feelings, he told me and cried that he felt so horrible about this - that this was never supposed to happen.

 

As to other sober A's, I don't have any way to verify this. However, IF I found out this was not his first, I would be gone in two seconds. I will probably not find out since he wasn't living here during most of that time.

 

You are right about the stay in the moment. Although this is a big part of recovery, I really have to evaluate how much of these slogans are being used as a means to justify this A and the future.

 

Of course I want a man without a wife that I can trust. I wish there weren't all these feelings involved. I don't fall in love easily. It is shocking how quickly this happened here. Not normal for me at all.

 

Tomorrow is another day. Each day I feel different about this. I'll see what's in store for me then.

 

He's not living a sober life. Sobriety includes integrity and honesty.

 

That's not part of his "game".

 

I'd bet money you're not his first victim - but that won't make you end it either.

 

His character isn't what you believe it is... He's living a lie...and yet OU are PARTICIPATING in THAT lie.

 

Sow THAT on your 4th step columns and see what YOUR parties in it all.

 

You CAN do THINGS TO CHANGE this for YOU.

 

DO THAT.

[LadyRecovery]

Is there a difference between having an affair in recovery to having one out of recovery? Isn't it still an affair.

 

It sounds like he is revelling in having two women. If his consience bothered him, he wouldn't be doing it.

 

ONly peter Pan lives just for today... tomorrow will catch up with him sometime and then you could be dumped.

 

I think you are wanting reassurance that he loves you and that it will be a lasting relationship... chances are stacked against it.

 

If this man is risking his career by being seen in public with you then he has a reckless streak that could lead you to disaster.

 

Cat.

Last night changed back. He felt guilty and talked about it. Now he is worried that we were seen.

[LadyRecovery]

Wait..........what?? A professional that was responsible for your care????

 

Please explain so I don't jump to the wrong conclusions.

After years of sobriety I relapsed. He was part of the team when I was back in treatment. This started after seeing him at meetings.

[LadyRecovery]

He's not living a sober life. Sobriety includes integrity and honesty.

 

That's not part of his "game".

 

I'd bet money you're not his first victim - but that won't make you end it either.

 

His character isn't what you believe it is... He's living a lie...and yet OU are PARTICIPATING in THAT lie.

 

Sow THAT on your 4th step columns and see what YOUR parties in it all.

 

You CAN do THINGS TO CHANGE this for YOU.

 

DO THAT.

Thank you. I called my sponsor this morning - she knows this is going on. I'm going to work a 4th Step around this. Starting on it this afternoon. I asked him to do the same. He told me he's already done it with his sponsor yet can't bring himself to do anything about it yet.

[LadyRecovery]

How come you don't feel guilt?

I do. I feel horrible guilt. That's why I'm talking about it here. All of you are helping open my eyes and posing great questions and insights for me to look at. Working another 4th Step around this may drive it home and help me make better decisions. First time around in recovery this is something I would have the strength to end immediately. Being new again, it is more difficult. I need to take a really hard and honest look at this and why that is the case. I am very happy that some people posting on here have obvious experience w addiction and recovery. Speaking my language...

[LadyRecovery]

You are addicted to what makes you happy. MOM makes you happy and hence you get addicted to MOM.

Just to clarify, I'm not married. Yes, this seems like an addiction to me at times...

[Decorative]

I also think sometimes you see people struggling with addictions replacing addictions with an addictive behavior of recovery practices and language.

 

Which is infinitely better than the destructive behavior, for sure, but can keep one trapped in a negative feedback loop.

[LadyRecovery]

It is an addiction. Love is a form of addiction. The brain of a person in deep love is not that different than the brain of a cocaine addict.

 

How do you treat an addiction?

Work the steps, do the next right thing even though it is painful and difficult. Grow and learn from the pain and move on. Get back to being the person I was and know I can be again. Then forgive myself and not repeat the behavior.

[LadyRecovery]

I also think sometimes you see people struggling with addictions replacing addictions with an addictive behavior of recovery practices and language.

 

Which is infinitely better than the destructive behavior, for sure, but can keep one trapped in a negative feedback loop.

Very true. I have to remind myself that those 10 years of sobriety were not lost, yet I am new again and must do the work like it is my first time around. A couple of people mentioned in this thread that an affair is a roller coaster. I am feeling that and it is not healthy. Especially at this point in my life.

 

I'm finding courage and more strength from everyone in this thread. This is really helping me to look at this fantasy and see it for what it really is. I am engaging in addictive behavior which is not good.

[LadyRecovery]

You should practice that with MOM. Don't you think?

Yes, that's the point. Feeling more grounded today. This thread is really helping, thank you. Going to go work on my 4th Step around this. Then hope to find the courage to end this and do the right thing. Will need help and support...

[2sunny]

When doing the 4th step - it helps to write out your 5th column "how did I participate?"

 

That is what is your guide to what got you to this place (resentment/fear). It's also your guide for "contrary action" in order to change things - or "set them right" in step 9. Contrary action will always give you a different result.

 

Also examine your "harms done" area of your 4th step - how did I harm myself or others? This will give you an idea of what not to do moving forward...