How would you handle this? (Input from guys especially appreciated!)

[A fish in the sea]

My ex and I had a first date on the 18th that went really well. We flirted quite brazenly, and he indicated that he wanted to see me again when I saw him at practice the next day. He's been out of town from the Friday before Christmas, and has texted me a couple times since then to flirt, including wishing me Merry Christmas.

 

On my birthday on the 26th, he texted me right when he woke up that morning:

 

Happy Birthday! Here is your gift. I hope you will like it. You get to plan a complete evening with me. I assume you will use it for personalized coaching for [our sport] but you might squeeze salsa dancing in if you plan it well.

 

He also wrote happy birthday on my facebook wall - the first time he's done that since he really liked me. And texted me all day.

 

On one level, I'd like this gift. I'm doing a tryout in a couple weeks and would really benefit from coaching. And I do want to go out dancing with him. So this is something I'd really enjoy.

 

What's not sitting well with me is that the undertone that he's giving me a gift of his time - like it wouldn't be something he'd want to do if he had a choice.

 

I know that he does want to spend time with me, but it just feels like if I plan an entire evening, he's going to be doing it because I want to, not because he wants to do it with me. I'm happy to get an experience with him as a present, but I want it to be something special he plans for me.

 

Another consideration is that if we do get back together, I want him to actually invest in the relationship and throw himself into it. Before, we broke up because he told me that he didn't see himself marrying me - and I didn't want to be a waste of time. (If he already knew he didn't want to marry me, it was a waste of both our times.)

 

Now, there were extenuating circumstances - he'd lost his job, had to move out of his apartment and other things that make guys withdraw - and from how he acts, there are deep feelings there. But still, I don't want to go back into this if it's going to be a waste of time. If he's going to do something special for me, I want him to actually put effort into it.

 

Would love anyone's advice on how I should bring this up with him. Before Christmas, he tried to give me a book that he knew I wanted for a birthday present, but that he had bought first for himself. I refused it because I didn't want a half-assed gift. Told him I would be happy to borrow it, but I didn't want it as a birthday present.

 

I feel this is kinda the same thing. If he doesn't want to put effort into getting me a present, that's fine. He doesn't have to - I'm not expecting one. But if he's going to give me a present, I want it to be something special he does/gets for me.

 

I don't want to be a fallback girlfriend he's with because it's easy. I want him to be with me because he believes I'm amazing and he's invested in the relationship.

 

Would love to hear what others think - especially the guys - about how I should express this. Thank you!

[carhill]

Time is the most valuable and most finite thing we have in life. Giving one's time completely to another, at their pleasure, is a pretty cool gift. I'd have to think super hard to name a woman who's done that for me in my 53. I don't think it happened even when I was married.

 

Make plans to suit yourself for your special gift of his time, totally for you, and be appreciative.

 

Now, if his current perspective on marriage and yours are still miles apart, move on permanently. No sense in investing in something which isn't going where you want it to go, generally. Back to that time thing again.

[A fish in the sea]

Time is the most valuable and most finite thing we have in life. Giving one's time completely to another, at their pleasure, is a pretty cool gift. I'd have to think super hard to name a woman who's done that for me in my 53. I don't think it happened even when I was married.

 

To be clear, I do like the idea of it - I just want him to do the planning, etc for it as well. Otherwise it feels like I'm forcing him to do something he doesn't want to do.

 

Perhaps I should just tell him that I want to go somewhere new, and I want to get picked up, wearing a dress and heels - and I want him to surprise me with a fun evening...?

[Cutiepie1976]

I can see your concern that he isn't putting in any "effort," but honestly it's an incredibly thoughtful gift, and by your own admission, it's something you could really use.

 

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but quite frankly, you're being pretty insensitive and selfish. He's lost his job and, as a result, his apartment. Understand that money is probably very tight for him right now. Going somewhere new, dressing up, etc. as you propose? Probably totally out of his financial reach right now. Irrelevant whether he loves you dearly or not, he can't offer those if he can't even stay in his apartment! Right?

 

He gave you a book he thought you might like. He's now trying a very thoughtful, creative gift of his time since you rejected his first try as "half-assed." Remember, gifts come from the heart. The gesture should be more meaningful to you than the actual gift itself, the price tag, or the "brag-ability" factor when you discuss the gift with your friends.

 

There is no "graceful" or "artful" way to criticize a gift and get the person to change it. It's just crass no matter how you approach the topic. And to do this a second time...?

Edited December 31, 2012 by Cutiepie1976

[A fish in the sea]

I can see your concern that he isn't putting in any "effort," but honestly it's an incredibly thoughtful gift, and by your own admission, it's something you could really use.

 

I'm sorry if I sound harsh, but quite frankly, you're being pretty insensitive and selfish. He's lost his job and, as a result, his apartment. Understand that money is probably very tight for him right now.

 

He lost his job a year ago. I was incredibly supportive for months. Very understanding last Christmas and we kept it low-key for months so he didn't have to spend money.

 

He got a great new job during the summer. He paid off the loans he took, paid back his sister, is back in his apartment, and is completely back on his feet and doing very well financially right now. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.

 

If he was dating someone new, he would be taking them out. He's the one who offered to take me out - I never asked for a birthday present and told him I didn't expect one. But I wasn't going to let him pass off a book he was going to get rid of anyways as a birthday present. That's a cop-out.

 

What I want is for him to plan something nice for me. I don't care if it's a nice dinner, bowling, or a picnic under the stars. I think it's fair of me to ask for him to put effort into a relationship with me.

Edited December 31, 2012 by A fish in the sea

[Cutiepie1976]

Thanks for the clarification. Very helpful.

 

Clearly we have different philosophies on gifts. Since the gift itself is of utmost importance, and since you have clear ideas of what is appropriate, give him a list of acceptable choices ahead of the big day. Most guys are horrible mind readers.

 

Good luck!

[Game]

From a guy's perspective...it really depends on what kind of guy he is. Some guys are really good at selecting gifts for girls while others are downright horrible. I've been told I have great taste by my girlfriend's friends when I bought her a pair of shoes, whereas I've seen a guy give a ring to his girlfriend that looked like a superbowl ring (clearly she wasn't too pleased). But in the end, it really is the thought that counts. How many people in this world care enough about you to give you a gift? It's basically your family, friends, and significant other.

 

I mean clearly this guy is into you..he's flirting with you, texts you immediately as he wakes up (you are the first thing on his mind)..what more could you want from attention's sake?

 

However, on the flip side some of the things that do concern me are:

-him thinking you are not THE ONE (although this could change)

-him saying that his gift to you is you planning out your own birthday to be with him..shouldn't he be planning something special out for you? unless this is the kind of dynamic you guys had in your relationship.

-the book is a nice gesture since he knew that you wanted it, however it was something that he already had meaning that he is either lazy, forgetful, resourceful, or doesn't care enough about you to put in the effort to go out of his way to get a gift for you (this part is something only you will know....so my question is which one of these characteristic most aptly describes him? have you ever seen him put in an effort for a gift for somebody else?)

 

Honestly, from everything you have mentioned, it seems that he does take you more of as a fallback girlfriend. It's one of those things where you can't really ask him if he thinks you're amazing and if he would be 100% invested in you. Of course he's going to answer yes. It's one of those things that only you would know from your intuition and instincts based on your interactions with him. If it's 100% you're looking for, a guy who will ride and die for you, I don't think he is that guy. Him saying that he doesn't see himself marrying you should already raise red flags - he is not invested 100% into you.

 

But you know, even ppl who believe that they are soulmates for each other and believe they could get married, do not end up getting married nor do their relationships last.

 

Bottom line is, he is interested in you, but not 100%..the decision on how you proceed is up to you.

[A fish in the sea]

Thank you. This was helpful. I think you're picking up on the same things I am.

 

My thought is this: I'm not too worried about his lack of commitment at the moment because right now we're just reconnecting - and I think he's waiting to see if I'm back to being stable again.

 

Backstory is: We broke up in April, kinda did the on-and-off thing through the summer and then totally cut it off in August after I had a bit of a job/break-related meltdown. He dated someone else briefly, they had issues because of lingering feelings for me (he insisted on telling me this). Meanwhile, I got my life back into order, got a promotion I had spent years working for and am feeling really happy again.

 

We just had our first date right before Christmas - and he definitely was very into me. But - since I did melt down after our break-up - I think he's going to be tentative until he sees I'm back to my normal self.

 

Also, I think "I don't see myself marrying you" could have been him saying "I need space." Because he has gone both ways on this - and he's only pulled out the "I don't see myself marrying you" when he didn't have a job and my job was in jeopardy. (And I got rather clingy.) There's also the fact that we started dating with the understanding it was a temporary thing until he left the country for a dream trip 2 months after we started dating (because we both agreed it was stupid to try a long distance thing for 3 months for such a new relationship) - and then he lost his job and couldn't go. So he never actually decided he wanted to commit to me in the first place, we just kept dating.

 

My gut reaction to this is that he's testing the waters and deciding if he wants to jump in fully. But I know one thing is true - I do not want to be the fallback girl. If he wants to date me, I want him to date me because he thinks I'm really amazing and special. And, I think he does. He even called me from CA on NYE as my Midwestern clock struck midnight.

 

I think what I need to do is stand firm on my boundaries. I've done that before with him - and he takes a little time to decide whether he wants to commit to that, and then takes the next step. "Ok, you don't want a girlfriend. Then I'm not interested." "Ok, you want a last minute date - I have plans but I can do an actual date another night." "I'm not expecting a birthday present, but if you give me one, I want it to actually be a present."

 

For this, I think I'll toss it back at him and tell him I want to be surprised and to go someplace where I can wear my nice dress. And I'll bet that he steps up.

 

Later on, I'm just going to be firm that I'm not interested in casual sex with him, and that I don't want to be a fallback girl. If that's what he wants... I'm not interested. If he wants an actual relationship because he does think I'm amazing, I am interested.

 

No nagging or begging for commitment. Just "this is what I want" and being calm about his decision either way. How does that sound?

Edited January 2, 2013 by A fish in the sea

[Game]

What was the reason for you guys breaking up and who dumped who?

 

Putting out a list of what you want in a relationship can go two ways:

it can either make him realize that these things are what you need in order to be happy and he can oblige to them making you happy in return

 

or

 

it can scare him off by making him think, this girl is too demanding and if she starts giving me a list now, then what more could follow in the future?

 

The question you are posing will be difficult to answer without knowing the pretense for why you guys broke up. At this time, it does seem like he is into you, but usually during a reconciliation, all it takes is one big red flag for him to realize why he broke up with you in the first place and can instantly reaffirm these feelings - and you posing "demands" on him could do this.

 

Also, it seems that the ball is in your court right now bc it seems to me that he is trying to please you, so keep in mind that once you ask for commitment that you are making it clear that you want to be with him and that you are giving him control of the relationship. Once that happens, you will lose your edge and he may not seem so "accommodating" to your requests anymore.

 

It's always a game, and we are all players in it.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Game

[A fish in the sea]

What was the reason for you guys breaking up and who dumped who?

 

I actually broke up with him - because he told me that he didn't feel like he want to marry me.

 

But sorta strange circumstances. He was 2 weeks from finishing his MBA, job search was going badly, still wasn't making money, his subleaser was moving out of his apartment and he was going to have to pay rent again in a couple weeks (had been living with his sister for 4 months). At the same time, my dream company had just done a 2nd round of layoffs and I was terrified that I was going to lose a job I'd worked years to get.

 

What precipitated it was that I decided to get a 2nd cat because I travel a lot and my cat was very lonely. I thought I'd let him help me pick it out, since I thought he would like it better if he felt like he was involved in the decision (so I let him pick the color, the least important part!) He misunderstood that we were getting a cat together (we weren't) and freaked out about the relationship (hence the talk.)

 

After that, he kept offering to coach me in the sport we share for about a month and a half, offered to take care of my cats when I was on a trip, and kept asking me out for dinner to prep for his job interviews. It seemed like he was still very interested, but needed space until he got his life figured out again. However I didn't handle the break-up well, especially with continued job stress. So I think the intensity of my emotions scared him off.

 

Does that help?

 

Also, he really doesn't like gifting. For Christmas, he didn't get his sister a present, instead they went in together to get an expensive camera to share. Same sort of thing with other presents he's gotten for others. Last year, he did get me a nice birthday present though - even though he didn't have a lot of money. IMO I'm happy with "experiences" for presents. But I don't want to plan it.

[A fish in the sea]

Also, I don't really do a list of requirements, and he knows that.

 

But I do know that I really like him, and I can't do a casual relationship with him. And what I want is someone who really wants to date me. I think it's ok to be upfront with that.

[Game]

Think you're pretty much golden then. If you were the one that broke it off then typically the dumper has the power. Also, considering the circumstances of the situation at the time of your breakup could have easily led to him being scared of the marriage talk with the added stress of school/job. I can see how he could easily misconstrue the whole cat thing and start freaking out bc getting a pet together is quite a commitment.

 

Asking for commitment is not a problem and should definitely be something that both parties are willing to offer in order to make the relationship work. However, asking for commitment to marriage is a whole 'nother thing and to him getting a cat together could have suggested that this is where things were moving towards. He could very well not be ready for such a commitment just yet and him bringing up the "i don't see myself marrying you" could have been an instinctive defensive mechanism.

 

It seems like he was committed to you (did he ever cheat on you?). He must have dated you because he thought you were amazing and beautiful and his actions now seem to suggest that he still thinks so. If it was a relationship built on a fling I highly doubt that he would be displaying the type of affection towards you through text, phone call, and whatnot unless he is a clingy type of person who has trouble letting go of what is familiar to him.

 

If I were you, I would take things slowly to ensure that it is not a casual thing, but to me it seems that he is "someone who really wants to date you". I mean the dude even timed his Happy New Year call to you...totally a Ted Mosby move..a little corny, but when you really like someone, you tend to do corny sh.it