A suggestion to any man in a womans friendzone.

[ThaWholigan]

The key is to express interest and ask for a date, not grab, grope, and bear hug.

 

As most women will tell you, a guy getting overly physical sooner than she is ready is a surefire way to kill a woman's interest. I recall you telling a poster she was "rash" because she wouldn't consider a second date with a guy who couldn't keep his hands to himself. That's pretty typical. Most guys who date successfully understand that and read a the woman's body language really well. Guys who shoot themselves in the foot, do what is proposed in the OP.

The argument is that it is better to do that than to do nothing at all.

 

Guys who struggle are too scared of being creepy so they don't even do anything. A lot of them don't know how to read body language anyway. Obviously a more even approach is needed, but at a certain point, just letting your interest be known anyhow is better. And plus, like I said, some guys simply don't touch at all and fail to even adequately reciprocate any interest that may be shown in him, and end up f*cking it up . I did this all the time.

 

Anyway, my personal view is that at some point, you have to be willing to walk away if it's not working out. I was "friendzoned" fairly recently. You know how I'm gonna get out of it? By simply walking away .

[Cutiepie1976]

Well, a poorly worded, anxiously uttered question will get these guys much further than socially awkward grabbing. Nothing worse than that!

 

You're doing the smart thing...walking away and finding someone else when you get friend zoned. Good for you.

[Mrlonelyone]

The argument is that it is better to do that than to do nothing at all.

 

Guys who struggle are too scared of being creepy so they don't even do anything. A lot of them don't know how to read body language anyway. Obviously a more even approach is needed, but at a certain point, just letting your interest be known anyhow is better. And plus, like I said, some guys simply don't touch at all and fail to even adequately reciprocate any interest that may be shown in him, and end up f*cking it up . I did this all the time.

 

Anyway, my personal view is that at some point, you have to be willing to walk away if it's not working out. I was "friendzoned" fairly recently. You know how I'm gonna get out of it? By simply walking away .

 

Cutiepie there is also a element of reading body language to what I describe.

 

I'm not talking about just grabbing random women who are walking around with close off body language. I'm talking about making a physical move on women who are giving off touch me signals.

 

You know how I describe a woman crying on a man's shoulder about her jerky BF or exBF. That right there can be and often is a touch me signal.

 

I think we are writing about totally different situations. Your thinking of rejected men hanging around that the woman doesn't want around.

 

I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

 

These videos have a woman saying pretty much the same things I am.

 

 

Especially in this video she says do the things to the woman that a friend wouldn't do. Up to and including simply freching the woman on the mouth.

 

This person also has an interesting perspective on male-female friendship. That it's impossible for a man and woman to be 100% platonic friends. There will be some low basic level of interest. That men fall into the friendzone mainly through their own inability to act on a womans signals.

[Cutiepie1976]

Cutiepie there is also a element of reading body language to what I describe.

 

I'm not talking about just grabbing random women who are walking around with close off body language. I'm talking about making a physical move on women who are giving off touch me signals.

 

You know how I describe a woman crying on a man's shoulder about her jerky BF or exBF. That right there can be and often is a touch me signal.

 

I think we are writing about totally different situations. Your thinking of rejected men hanging around that the woman doesn't want around.

 

I'm not the only one who thinks this way.

 

These videos have a woman saying pretty much the same things I am.

 

 

Especially in this video she says do the things to the woman that a friend wouldn't do. Up to and including simply freching the woman on the mouth.

 

This person also has an interesting perspective on male-female friendship. That it's impossible for a man and woman to be 100% platonic friends. There will be some low basic level of interest. That men fall into the friendzone mainly through their own inability to act on a womans signals.

 

Ummm...did you pick the right videos? In both of these she recommends ASKING IN A CLEAR MANNER FOR A DATE. Isn't that what I've posted repeatedly in this thread?

 

As to French kissing, most guys work up to a French kiss, they don't start there. The only guy who dove straight into a French kiss with no warning and nothing physical before that (other than hand holding when we walked), pretty much killed all interest on my part. I declined a fourth date and stopped talking to him after that...despite his 500 text messages that followed. It's generally better to work up the physicality scale and read signs and body language as you go. It's not about timing per se. I've been French kissed on a first date, but there was incredible chemistry with those guys and they worked up to a kiss, and then worked up to a French kiss. They didn't randomly grab my face, start exchanging body fluids, and ram their tongue down my throat. Things escalated naturally.

 

Again, look at guys who are successful. They clearly ask for what they want--a date or whatever. They don't grab/grope at their friends out of nowhere. Being upfront and asking for what you want can be very appealing and attractive...not to mention effective if she has any interest in the guy.

[Mrlonelyone]

Ummm...did you pick the right videos? In both of these she recommends ASKING IN A CLEAR MANNER FOR A DATE. Isn't that what I've posted repeatedly in this thread?

 

 

 

Again, look at guys who are successful. They clearly ask for what they want--a date or whatever. They don't grab/grope at their friends out of nowhere. Being upfront and asking for what you want can be very appealing and attractive...not to mention effective if she has any interest in the guy.

 

I didn't advise any one to "grope" anyone. I specifically said not to do that.

 

I said to take that woman crying on your shoulder and hold her close. Sit her down on your lap. Let her feel the comforts of your manlyness as you just hold her and listen to her. What I describe is a tender, sensitive yet sexual thing to do .

 

What you describe is just grabbing random women or something.

[EasyHeart]

The assumption seems to be that women are secretly longing for their male friends to **** them, and I don't think that's usually the case. Usually, if a guy gets friendzoned, it's because the woman isn't attracted to him and no amount of aggressiveness is going to change that. Groping a woman friend is likely to be perceived in the same way as a brother suddenly making a pass at his sister.

 

The benefit of being direct and asking a woman on a date when you first meet her is that you know right away that she's attracted to you. When a man asks out a woman, he is effectively saying "I am physically attracted to you and would like to get to know you better". If she accepts, she is saying, "I feel the same way"; if she declines, she is saying, "I am not physically attracted to you, so do not waste your efforts on me".

 

So I think MrLonelyOne is right in the situations where two people are both playing some weird game of "I like you but am afraid to express my feelings", but in most "FriendZone" situations the scenario that CutiePie described is much, much more likely.

 

If you want to date a woman and she doesn't want to date you, move on. Hanging around in hopes of changing her mind are not going to work. A real female friend is your sister and you wouldn't **** her anymore than you'd **** your sister.

[Els]

I just don't see this as working. If I'm not into the guy, him making such a maneouvre would just give me the guts to end the farce of a 'friendship' once and for all. And if I was into him, depending on how bold and touchy we're talking (back/hands would be okay, butt/boobs NOT) it might put me off him. AND if I was into him enough to be okay with him touching me, I would have said yes if he just ASKED me to go out with him to begin with. So I don't see the point - asking is way more respectful and less potentially offensive. Call me old-fashioned, but I've always gone for the gentleman and always will.

 

I suppose other girls might be different.

[phineas]

Well I am a transgender woman who's 5' 10" 40-27-41 - 7* and was never ever all that conventionally masculine in action or appearance. Even when I tried very hard to be. SOooo I don't know how much of a difference being a certain shape really makes a difference. So long as you can look somewhat attractive.

 

Women could easily see me as a sexual non-option but generally they don't.

 

*Yes that measurement is what you think it is. The fact that people buy double headed dildo's and strapons proves there is a certain raw sexual appeal to the notion of a feminine being with a *ick.

 

My progress pics from when I decided to do something about my appearance.

 

 

When I lacked confidence with women & they saw me as harmless.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/94502876/before.jpg

 

Me right after I got in shape & I started living in a whole different world.

I didn't even have a 6 pack. Ignore the black nipple. I think that is where the flash directly hit the mirror.

http://dl.dropbox.com/u/94502876/after.jpg

 

I KNOW my body shape makes a difference. Especially at 40.

 

However, I didn't become confident over night. I had women coming on to me every where I went but I still blew it by not making the move.

It took a few success for me and a good yr to to feel comfortable with my new appearance & clothes & not be afraid to just go for it with women.

 

Mostly because I had women I spent my life viewing as out of my league who either ignored me or led me on actually now interested in me.

[phineas]

I'm going to guess you have more dates with this approach than the guys trying all sorts of maneuvers to get out of a particular woman's friend zone.

 

Yes & no.

I stopped wasting my time trying to date women who didn't want to date me.

 

So yes I get more dates in that respect. However at my age the majority of single women are divorced empty nester's in party mode just looking to hook up & I'm just not really interested in that type anymore.

[sweetkiwi]

I like the first picture better.

[phineas]

I have never once asked a girl out on a date. Never in my life. And I'm 38.

 

when I was overweight I had to make that distinction.

Now, I just get them out & let their action decide how I proceed.

 

a woman who acts like she is interested in dating gets another call from me.

A woman who doesn't won't.

[Casablanca]

The assumption seems to be that women are secretly longing for their male friends to **** them, and I don't think that's usually the case. Usually, if a guy gets friendzoned, it's because the woman isn't attracted to him and no amount of aggressiveness is going to change that. Groping a woman friend is likely to be perceived in the same way as a brother suddenly making a pass at his sister.

Totally agree, it sounds more like the start of some porno

[sweetkiwi]

But you gentlemen are forgetting some very important things.

 

1) when If we are secretly attracted we may not make a move

 

2) women find men either sexier or more brotherly after getting to know them

 

3) women find men who are good friends sexy

 

4) we get horny too and sometimes need a penis to cry on, i mean shoulder

 

Now Im not saying be friends with 1000 chicks so maybe one fine day she'll get drunk and blow you. Im saying If you have a female friend you LIKE and want to change the nature of the relationship the ONLY way to do that is make a move.

 

It worked with my first, and third boyfriends. They manned up and handled it and i was really into it. Like craaaaaaazy into it.

 

Had more flings this way as well. But. If the girl isn't into you and you try this you may lose a friend. Especially If you turn into a dick upon rejection.

[phineas]

But you gentlemen are forgetting some very important things.

 

1) when If we are secretly attracted we may not make a move

 

2) women find men either sexier or more brotherly after getting to know them

 

3) women find men who are good friends sexy

 

4) we get horny too and sometimes need a penis to cry on, i mean shoulder

 

Now Im not saying be friends with 1000 chicks so maybe one fine day she'll get drunk and blow you. Im saying If you have a female friend you LIKE and want to change the nature of the relationship the ONLY way to do that is make a move.

 

It worked with my first, and third boyfriends. They manned up and handled it and i was really into it. Like craaaaaaazy into it.

 

Had more flings this way as well. But. If the girl isn't into you and you try this you may lose a friend. Especially If you turn into a dick upon rejection.

 

yes,yes,yes.

I've slept with "just friends" BUT,

They were actual friends.

 

Not attention whores with a universe of orbiters trying to get in their pants & them encouraging these guys to buy things for them & do stuff for them while they are "secretly" sleeping with an ex they claimed treated them badly.

 

I never could tell the difference between the two. Both exist & all I can say is when I was chubby I never had true female friends.

Now that i'm in shape I might have one now. Not sure until we hang out more.

Most women don't want to just hang out with me or be friends. which I find very confusing because i'm not even flirting with them even though they try to flirt with me.

I'm just asking them to let me know when the next group get together is & they never do.

[Mrlonelyone]

But you gentlemen are forgetting some very important things.

 

1) when If we are secretly attracted we may not make a move

 

2) women find men either sexier or more brotherly after getting to know them

 

3) women find men who are good friends sexy

 

4) we get horny too and sometimes need a penis to cry on, i mean shoulder

 

Now Im not saying be friends with 1000 chicks so maybe one fine day she'll get drunk and blow you. Im saying If you have a female friend you LIKE and want to change the nature of the relationship the ONLY way to do that is make a move.

 

It worked with my first, and third boyfriends. They manned up and handled it and i was really into it. Like craaaaaaazy into it.

 

Had more flings this way as well. But. If the girl isn't into you and you try this you may lose a friend. Especially If you turn into a dick upon rejection.

 

^^This.

 

@Easyheart

 

Asking a woman out on a date is the last step in the process.

 

What I am talking about, hugging, touching (not gropeing), even having her sit in your lap can be termed flirtation.

 

First you get to know someone.

Then you flirt.

If they flirt back you ask them out.

 

It's like you want men to jump to the end of the dance.

[counterman]

I am going to give this a try, with a girl I won't care about losing a friendship with.

[sweetkiwi]

yes,yes,yes.

I've slept with "just friends" BUT,

They were actual friends.

 

Not attention whores with a universe of orbiters trying to get in their pants & them encouraging these guys to buy things for them & do stuff for them while they are "secretly" sleeping with an ex they claimed treated them badly.

 

I never could tell the difference between the two. Both exist & all I can say is when I was chubby I never had true female friends.

Now that i'm in shape I might have one now. Not sure until we hang out more.

Most women don't want to just hang out with me or be friends. which I find very confusing because i'm not even flirting with them even though they try to flirt with me.

I'm just asking them to let me know when the next group get together is & they never do.

I have a universe of orbiters and am openly sleeping with my ex. I also am a great female friend. I cook. I bake. I sing and dance and am nice. I ask my male friends how they are. If i can help them. If they're getting LAID because i also have a plethora of hot female friends. Not so much here but back home.

 

And its natural for my male friends to be attracted to me. If they're secretly scheming about getting me drunk and fhucking me, they're in it for other reasons.

 

This just happened actually. Happens a lot to me here since women won't befriend me and the men see me as "walking strange". I stupidly think these men want to be my friends and when they try to bone me and i say no they turn into complete jerks.

 

That's the problem. If they took the rejection better (or were HONEST about their intentions in the start) we could maybe be friends after.

[Mrlonelyone]

I am going to give this a try, with a girl I won't care about losing a friendship with.

 

That's just the thing. Flirting with a friend so heavily as I describe dosen't have to "end the friendship". The key is timing it. If she's not seriously involved with anyone, just flirt it up. Be coy, be playful...even deny that you have interest in her with your words as you flirt with your body. There are people do do that just for the sake of fun.

[counterman]

That's just the thing. Flirting with a friend so heavily as I describe dosen't have to "end the friendship". The key is timing it. If she's not seriously involved with anyone, just flirt it up. Be coy, be playful...even deny that you have interest in her with your words as you flirt with your body. There are people do do that just for the sake of fun.

 

Good point, I have this thing sort of going with a friend now. There's so much push and pull. If timed right, any move, e.g. going in for the kiss, would be positive. In fact, some girls say that's the best thing, being that playful, flirty friend.

 

We'll see how it goes

[phineas]

I have a universe of orbiters and am openly sleeping with my ex. I also am a great female friend. I cook. I bake. I sing and dance and am nice. I ask my male friends how they are. If i can help them. If they're getting LAID because i also have a plethora of hot female friends. Not so much here but back home.

 

And its natural for my male friends to be attracted to me. If they're secretly scheming about getting me drunk and fhucking me, they're in it for other reasons.

 

This just happened actually. Happens a lot to me here since women won't befriend me and the men see me as "walking strange". I stupidly think these men want to be my friends and when they try to bone me and i say no they turn into complete jerks.

 

That's the problem. If they took the rejection better (or were HONEST about their intentions in the start) we could maybe be friends after.

 

But you are not really doing what I see all the time happen with other guys and has happened to me & why i purged all my female friends.

 

women who KNOW their guy friends want them & still keep them around letting them buy them things or working on their car/house because they think it will get them into a relationship with them.

 

These women also know these men are ignoring other women for them & also are master's at putting men into an "almost dating" situation.

 

I've fallen for the "almost dating" situation a few times. they always say "I need to take things slow".

Usually about the time they tried getting me to buy them things or work on their house/car is when I realized they were just trying to manipulate me & I bailed.

 

A lot of men don't. I've known guys who replaced a woman's brake line, bought her snow tires, bought her a garden shed, did construction on her house ect. just because they thought they were going to date her.

 

The whole time she knew she had no intentions of dating them but didn't tell them.

 

It's brutal.

Edited December 30, 2012 by phineas

[Nightsky]

Try making an aggressive physical move on them.

 

You have to try! if you care...

 

Not like...rape or anything...

 

Mind blowing. So... you're saying don't rape girls who friendzoned you... Other women aren't off limits too right?

 

just put your hands on them in places that are thought of as boyfriend territory.

 

Yes, try to hold their hand, or put your arm around them, touch their legs, kiss them or something a normal guy who likes a girl in this day and age would do.

[sweetkiwi]

That sucks. I wouldn't be friends with women like that either.

 

And actually i have a little experience with women who want to bone ME and then we develop real friendships out of it. Every now and again they offer and i decline. But just because someone is sexually attracted doesn't mean they want to be with them.

 

I assume my straight male friends want to bone me. Duh Im sweet and talk about sex like a guy. I am basically one of the guys with boobs. I can outdrink. Outrun. Outcuss. And outpick up chicks.

 

If any man is my real friend he will realize who i am. Im not a user. I always give more than i receive. And i will be a real friend who will stand by you. Even after you try to bone me.

[toofartogo]

They stay because the woman FZ'ing them sees them as totally castrated. Devoid of all sexual desire and needs.

Mmm, I disagree with this. The reason that I FZ men is b/c I realize that we don't have chemistry, or at least I'm not feeling it. This does not mean that I don't think he'll be great for someone else or that he's not good looking or even hot. One of my male friends from way back who turned out to be a terrible kisser for me was great for my best friend and she could never figure out what I was talking about but it was like kissing my brother. I have a very good friend now that I go out to dinner with occasionally and I really really like him but zero chemistry-- and he is quite good-looking. I do not see him as castrated or devoid of desire--I'm just not feeling it and in no way does that lower my respect for him. He is quite similar in personality to the man I'm dating but the difference is in the way he makes me feel.

 

So do I think a man can get out of the FZ? He!! yes, my ex was such a one--we were friends for 7 years before he made the move and then married for 23.

I think the best move of all time in situations such as this, when a girl is putting out signals but nobody wants to make a move, is to look into the girl's eyes and reach into the front of the waistline part of her jeans and pull her into you, firmly but not forcefully. Don't stick your hands down her pants, just into the waistline.

 

Girls lose it after that. That move is as good as cash. Your days in the FZ are done after that.

 

This would totally work for me--with the right man lol. LIke you said, there have to be signals. If she's looking at you a lot then go for it.

 

I KNOW my body shape makes a difference. Especially at 40.

 

I just wanted to say--nice work and you look great but I suspect that the biggest difference has been in your confidence. You didn't look terrible before so I'd say the confidence thing is key and even though you say you didn't feel confident for awhile after you got in shape, something showed. Maybe it was the way you moved.

[Mrlonelyone]

@nightsky

Way to twist a few quotes out of context. That really makes a point.

 

@phineas

Yeah I've seen that too. I've seen guys get played like that too. A total user like that isn't someone a man should want to be in a relationship with anyway.

 

@counterman

Yeah that sounds like it could work. If you have been getting signs of some basic interest from them, then there is hope.

[Mrlonelyone]

@too far.

 

I would tell the men your taking to dinner etc to try to make a move on you. Which if doing so is enough to end your "friendship" means that your not actually a friend.

 

Let me ask you this. The man who takes you out for dinner...what do you do for him?