Eternal Sunshine Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 I think this is again my low self-esteem, but I would sometimes meet men that I classify as "out of my league". They are either very good looking or very successful or very confident and often the mix of all 3. As soon as I judge them as "better than me", and it's purely my instinct, I would freeze up around them. Even if they are indeed "out of my league", I am not sure how this mindset is helping me. Even if they are friendly or try to talk to me, I would block them by giving them one word answers and trying to avoid them. In truth, they just intimidate me. They are the very men I want to attract but I somehow sabotage myself. This happens even unrelated to dating. During my recent work Christmas dinner, I was randomly seated next to this older man. He was really engaging and we had a good laugh and conversation. Towards the end of the night, he was suddenly introduced to us as our new department director and he is actually a well known scientist that has won multiple awards. Upon learning this fact, the intimidation kicked in and I was suddenly unable to say a word to him for the rest of the night. It's like I somehow thought anything I said will be considered dumb or boring - so I said nothing. I also remember when my co-worker that ultimately became my closest friend at work joined us. He was extremely good looking (married), confident to the point of being cocky and intelligent. For the first 3 months, I was so intimidated by him that I blocked any of his attempts at conversation. I was extremely nervous and awkward around him. Then he was randomly seated next to me in the shared office, and due to circumstances - I eventually relaxed and let my guard down. He turned out out be one of sweetest and easiest to talk to people. A truly good man, devoted to his family, kind, sweet. We became great friends (and his wife is pretty awesome too). In life, there often isn't enough time to "relax around someone". You are given few encounters, if that - and you need to make the most of them. I often noticed that in OLD, I would avoid men that I perceived as "too good". I would never reply to their messages as I would think to myself "he is probably a player" or "he would never actually like me" and other self-defeating thoughts. So I gravitated towards meeting up with guys that I saw as "safe". It always turned out that I was never actually attracted to those "safe" guys. Recently a friend got sick of me meeting up with those OLD "losers" and searched for guys in my city that she thought were more appropriate for me. I checked out their profiles and each one of them is what I normally considered "too good" for me. However, I showed in their visitors list and few are attempting to initiate conversation with me and meet me. I already know that even if I push myself into meeting them; I would freeze up on the date and just come across as shy and awkward, unable to show them any of my personality. I wonder if anyone has any idea of how to overcome this.
TaraMaiden Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 How do you think you could overcome this?
Keenly Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 You remind me a lot of myself. I have the same problem. I wish I had a solution for us, but I don't. But you are not alone.
KungFuJoe Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 You might suffer from anxiety...in fact I would say outright that you do. If you have access to a therapist, I would recommend it. 3
Ninjainpajamas Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 It's the anxiety and fear of having to live up to a certain expectation determined by external elements....this really resonates with a lot of the things you post, I definitely this encompassing pattern, this tug of war of wanting someone good enough but then either sabotaging it or running away from it because the thought of getting what you supposedly want is more scary than running away because then at least you never had to say you lost anything worthwhile. It seems you live in this limbo, this comfort zone that you created in all aspects of your life where it's ok to function and ok to feel good about yourself, but once one of these sensors go off where you are start to doubt yourself or immediately feel inadequate you bottle up because now you're judging a situation or person based off very superficial information and completely changing your demeanor. You're stuck in a lot of cyclical behavior which is why I'm explaining all of this, there are certain fears and mindsets that you have developed and trained yourself to react to without realizing it, or realizing it but not really noticing how early on in the process or how you analyze things...it's like the tick of a clock, everything rotating of that internal gear things will change just a little bit, and the more rotations that gear makes the more wound up you become....increasing the level of pressure, anxiety and fear...higher probability of something going round, more sensitive as time goes on to change and differences. You have to challenge your pattens and fears, and recognize from a third person perspective what you are doing...you need to see yourself as you, as an external entity and you'll be able to take note of the reactions and fears you have. Then you have to determine the root of where they come from and then challenge that pattern during the times you see it occurring....this will mean intentionally throwing a wrench and forcing yourself to operate out of your comfort zone...this is basically what many men go through trying to talk to women...and just like anything else the more you do, the more comfortable you start to feel, and attacking the mindset that you develop and telling yourself that it's ok to be confident and that you are worthy regardless of who this person is or does in their lives...because as the doer of things or person who receives recognition, they to are doing it to some extent for external validation, but it was their inner drive and confidence that took them there in the first place....people are people at the end of the day, if you know how to overlook the things that don't matter and realize that many of these things are just superficial things of the world then you can connect with anyone on the human level...and that's what counts the most. Society tells us how to feel, react, and judge based on what is popular or held in high regard...so if you associate your own values accordingly, then of course you're going to judge others "beneath" you and feel less than those who are "above" you...and even when you accomplish those things that may place you in the upper echelon of society, you'll realize that the fulfillment and void will not be filled...you'll still feel an emptiness inside of you and a weakness of vulnerability that you hope no one can see, because ultimately you are just looking for love and acceptance...when this whole time it needed to come from within, you need to forgive yourself for your faults, accept the things people have done to hurt you or made you feel unloved or unaccepted and allow yourself to receive the things you have always denied yourself of....it is you who controls the gates to your heart, it is not someone or something else who carries the key...a key that never turns even if it fits if they are not even open to you.
crude Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 There's no need to be nervous around a man who's technically out of your league. You're being realistic. If he's better looking than you and makes 10x what you do, he really IS better than you. However, if he still wants to be with you and to get to know you better, then maybe you're better than you thought and you can relax and enjoy the guy. If he eventually goes to someone more in his league, then fine, you're not delusional and expected it, and won't be shattered. Just take it easy and enjoy how your life plays out.
Lonely Ronin Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 You might suffer from anxiety...in fact I would say outright that you do. If you have access to a therapist, I would recommend it. I agree with this, and I'm pretty sure it's some form of social anxiety . you need to work on this ES, and talking with a counselor is the best way to do that. additionally if you have this problem around all men you seem to think are better than you I would highly suggest that your counselor be a woman.
TaraMaiden Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 ES, you intimidated by men you believe are better than you are, and you resent men getting friendly with your cat. I hate to agree, but perhaps you really should be considering therapy... And I'm not belittling or mocking you. 2
edgygirl Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 I also self-sabotage and would love to know what is the unconscious process behind it. I freeze, get awkward and unable to show my personality when I really like someone. Mainly if he has what is considered a high dating value (successful, cute, nice), not because I consider them out of my league. It's so hard to come by someone I like that when I do I get really anxious wanting for things to work out and end up shooting myself in the feet.
edgygirl Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 ES - why do you think they are better than you? You seem like a pretty, intelligent, fun girl who apparently has an interesting job. Why would any guy be "better" than you? Is it their high value dating status that scares you because they are in high demand, or do you really think they are better than you?
Lonely Ronin Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 ES, Edgy, read this. What Is Social Anxiety Disorder? Symptoms, Treatments, & More
edgygirl Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Thanks Ronin. But if someone is extremely sociable, can they still have social anxiety disorder? In my case, I know I can be anxious about things and people I really care about. I don't think I'm socially anxious though, people usually say I'm the most extroverted person they met. I feel the same about ES, she seems sociable.
TaraMaiden Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Then why this singular stumbling block, where she clams up and you 'shoot yourself in the foot'...? Why do YOU think it happens to you?
edgygirl Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Then why this singular stumbling block, where she clams up and you 'shoot yourself in the foot'...? Why do YOU think it happens to you? I have a feeling it might be related to this but I'm not sure. I have to read more about the concept: Self-Sabotage: A Pathway to Destruction | World of Psychology
Lonely Ronin Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 read what the symptoms are of social anxiety I'm almost positive this is the case. I would call what you to describe situation specific social anxiety. basically you're afraid of being judged by men that you deam of high value. that explains why ES, doesn't really have this problem with men that she thinks has equal or lesser social value than herself. I've been told it's not that uncommon, and is something a lot of men have when it comes to dating. 1
rocketman122 Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 There's no need to be nervous around a man who's technically out of your league. You're being realistic. If he's better looking than you and makes 10x what you do, he really IS better than you. However, if he still wants to be with you and to get to know you better, then maybe you're better than you thought and you can relax and enjoy the guy. If he eventually goes to someone more in his league, then fine, you're not delusional and expected it, and won't be shattered. Just take it easy and enjoy how your life plays out. so thats what makes someone better than her? youre a moron. looks and money doesnt make a person better than others. you have much to learn in life. no one is better than others. we are all humans and all on the same level. shame you cant send pimp slaps through messages. you sound like a 4th grader. "my sneakers lights up so im better" 1
El Brujo Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 Anyone can feel intimidated by someone who appears to have their s. together. 1
TheZebra Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 read what the symptoms are of social anxiety I'm almost positive this is the case. I would call what you to describe situation specific social anxiety. basically you're afraid of being judged by men that you deam of high value. that explains why ES, doesn't really have this problem with men that she thinks has equal or lesser social value than herself. I've been told it's not that uncommon, and is something a lot of men have when it comes to dating. I don't think her symptoms are necessarily social anxiety disorder. I've worked with people who do have SAS and the symptoms there are much more debilitating. These people are afraid to go out in public in constant fear of everyone judging them. Many can't even go to school or have a job because the situation is too stressful for them. The amount of anxiety they feel is so crippling it leads to full blown panic attacks at times. If we diagnosed everyone who froze up around someone they liked with SAS, the drug companies wouldn't even need a Marketing department anymore. To me, it sounds like a self-esteem issue. You believe there are qualities in yourself that make you undesirable to men, so you aim low. I think if you work on understanding just how high-value you are as a person in this world, and just how much you contribute by being yourself, that insecurity will be gone. Yes, while poor self esteem is commonly seen in people with SAS, it doesn't necessarily mean that low self esteem = SAS.
edgygirl Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 I am not sure I believe in the concept of throwing the "self esteem" issue concept on everyone who has difficulties dating. I have a feeling that after getting hit on the head multiple times (disappointing/hurtful situations, in dating), we get afraid of being hit on the head again. Then when we happen to meet someone that really interests us, we avoid them subconsciously as not to get hurt again as they seem to be someone interesting and therefore in demand in the dating jungle, there's a great chance that someone else will try to hunt them and get them. 1
iris219 Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 I am not sure I believe in the concept of throwing the "self esteem" issue concept on everyone who has difficulties dating. I have a feeling that after getting hit on the head multiple times (disappointing/hurtful situations, in dating), we get afraid of being hit on the head again. Then when we happen to meet someone that really interests us, we avoid them subconsciously as not to get hurt again as they seem to be someone interesting and therefore in demand in the dating jungle, there's a great chance that someone else will try to hunt them and get them. After being hurt, it's common to distance yourself from people you really like in the hope that the person will make a lot of effort to prove they are safe and not out to hurt you. Liking you despite your self sabotaging behavior proves to you that they feel you are worth it, when in reality it might simply prove they are unstable.
Lonely Ronin Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 (edited) I don't think her symptoms are necessarily social anxiety disorder. I've worked with people who do have SAS and the symptoms there are much more debilitating. These people are afraid to go out in public in constant fear of everyone judging them. Many can't even go to school or have a job because the situation is too stressful for them. The amount of anxiety they feel is so crippling it leads to full blown panic attacks at times. If we diagnosed everyone who froze up around someone they liked with SAS, the drug companies wouldn't even need a Marketing department anymore. To me, it sounds like a self-esteem issue. You believe there are qualities in yourself that make you undesirable to men, so you aim low. I think if you work on understanding just how high-value you are as a person in this world, and just how much you contribute by being yourself, that insecurity will be gone. Yes, while poor self esteem is commonly seen in people with SAS, it doesn't necessarily mean that low self esteem = SAS. it doesn't have to be that bad, the online articles never talk about the fact that all of these issues can have varying levels of severity. they can range from being able to be fixed by a self help book in a couple of weeks, to needing a psychiatrists help and heavy medication. the number 1 issue a counselor tell you to deal with, is getting over the fact that you might potentially have some kind of mental issue. that's usually the first hurdle, actually admitting to it because Society attaches a huge stigma to anything related to mental health. Edited December 29, 2012 by Lonely Ronin
Zed Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 This happens even unrelated to dating. During my recent work Christmas dinner, I was randomly seated next to this older man. He was really engaging and we had a good laugh and conversation. Towards the end of the night, he was suddenly introduced to us as our new department director and he is actually a well known scientist that has won multiple awards. Upon learning this fact, the intimidation kicked in and I was suddenly unable to say a word to him for the rest of the night. It's like I somehow thought anything I said will be considered dumb or boring - so I said nothing. In this instance, you also have the academic credentials and experience to hold your own. It's not like you are working a low end, low skilled job without prospects. I recall that you are a PhD in Mathematics and you teach which takes a lot of hard work and intelligenc eto accomplish. Obviously, you must be extemporaneous when speaking publicly and still manage to be engaging with your students. These are all social and confidence skills, so why would you even be remotely intimidated by him. Or anyone for that matter. You obviously have far more going for you then many people could ever hope and aspire for.
EasyHeart Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 I am not sure I believe in the concept of throwing the "self esteem" issue concept on everyone who has difficulties dating. I have a feeling that after getting hit on the head multiple times (disappointing/hurtful situations, in dating), we get afraid of being hit on the head again. Then when we happen to meet someone that really interests us, we avoid them subconsciously as not to get hurt again as they seem to be someone interesting and therefore in demand in the dating jungle, there's a great chance that someone else will try to hunt them and get them. That's kinda the definition of low self-esteem.
sydneysider1978 Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 I really love meeting new people and I think there's a couple of things to remember when meeting others that are very accomplished or good looking... 1. Most people really are nice or at least won't want to make a scene or make others feel stupid. (Although you wouldn't have that impression if you spend to much time on LS) If they are one of the outliers that aren't, then that's their problem. 2. Very accomplished people are so in one particular area. So he knows about biology, and you know about maths. Doesn't mean he is better or more intelligent that you, you are both just specialised. Just ask genuine questions, everyone loves talking about their own thing. 3. Just because someone is very good looking doesn't mean they are going to be bitchy or nasty. They just lucked out on some genes.. 4. If you feel out of your depth talking about work, change the subject to something fun. If they mention kids, or a home town, get them to talk about that.. It really makes people warm to you. "How to win friends and influence people" is an oldie but a goodie. There are lots of great tips on how to get people to warm to you and deal with social situations. I think the number one tip is to *smile*
TheZebra Posted December 29, 2012 Posted December 29, 2012 it doesn't have to be that bad, the online articles never talk about the fact that all of these issues can have varying levels of severity. they can range from being able to be fixed by a self help book in a couple of weeks, to needing a psychiatrists help and heavy medication. the number 1 issue a counselor tell you to deal with, is getting over the fact that you might potentially have some kind of mental issue. that's usually the first hurdle, actually admitting to it because Society attaches a huge stigma to anything related to mental health. The problem with this kind of thinking is that even the slightest deviation from what is considered normal attaches a label to someone whether they deserve it or not. Soon enough, all of us are going to have some type of disorder because no one is completely normal. For example, I feel like everyone around me is always talking about how ADD they are. No, just because you got distracted while studying for your final does not make you ADD. Just like getting nervous in front of a good catch does not mean you have Social Anxiety Disorder. I'm not saying that you need a diagnosis and an official problem to correct something you consider a problem. I'm just saying that we don't have to send everyone to a psychiatrist for everything.
Recommended Posts