Fundamental Lack of Understanding about Opposite Gender

[TheBigQuestion]

I just want to clarify something.

 

It isn't so much that we hate being viewed as 'objects of desire.'

 

What sucks is getting involved with someone you think likes you, having sex (which, scientific fact, releases hormones for a woman, causing a feeling of bonding) and then getting dumped.

 

You feel rejected and used.

 

It's usually not good enough to just have sex to 'get off' or whatever. Feeling rejected for the sake of an orgasm? No thanks.

 

And I'm not even really going by personal experience here because I've never had a one-night stand or whatever. But seeing my friends' hearts ripped out time and again...

 

Women have the burden of communicating their wants and needs with the men they involve themselves with. If you consent to the sex, no one is using you.

[KraftDinner]

Women have the burden of communicating their wants and needs with the men they involve themselves with. If you consent to the sex, no one is using you.

 

Many guys admit to saying what they need to say in order to get into a woman's pants. Many others don't do this. So it becomes a guessing game as to who is doing what. Some guys can be very convincing.

[TheBigQuestion]

Many guys admit to saying what they need to say in order to get into a woman's pants. Many others don't do this. So it becomes a guessing game as to who is doing what. Some guys can be very convincing.

 

Most men who only want women for the sex will not stick around for more than few weeks. This tends to weed such men out regardless of how convincing they may be.

[Lonely Ronin]

Women have the burden of communicating their wants and needs with the men they involve themselves with. If you consent to the sex, no one is using you.

 

That's a pretty retarded point of view, That's no different than (this is a bad example) buying a woman a couple of drinks and then her just disappearing. While the people that got manipulated need to look out for, the people that did the manipulating are useless scum.

[somedude81]

I don't think there was a hard stance I was trying to make, but rather stir some discussion and debate. I think a lot of the arguments you see on LS (or in real life for that matter) is due to lack of empathy. And this lack of empathy comes from physically not being able to experience the biology/chemistry of being a member of the opposite sex.

 

There are a lot of assumptions on how the opposite sex feels and how they should act and what is controllable, but they are just assumptions. Going back to my OP...being a guy, it sounds desirable to be an "object of desire" and have women constantly hitting on you and making it easy to get sex if you want to. On the other hand, I can understand how that might be annoying for a woman to constantly have that going on. That being said my empathy only goes so far because in the back of my head i'm thinking, "yeah she complains now, but if she didn't get the attention she is used to she would definitely miss it." That statement might not be true or fair, but without actually being a physical female it is impossible to truly understand that feeling because I will never have the opportunity to experience it.

 

Vice versa with the testosterone thing. A woman might understand to a degree that testosterone makes us a little sex crazed, but as veg girl put it, "Well personally I'd rather not think of my man as something that is solely driven by sex which is what you seem to be getting at. What a turn off. I have never seen him check out another girl, maybe he just doesn't do it in front of me, but I can tell you I wouldn't be cool with that. I prefer to think of my man as a bit more evolved than just a body full of testosterone that can't resist any pretty girl walking by."

 

I understand why you would think that, but you can never truly know unless you were physically a man. You might think you have an idea, but you don't truly know what effect testosterone has. Your bf might never show his "primal" side (as most good bf do), but how do you know what is really going on in his mind/body?

It's very difficult if not impossible for me to have empathy for somebody that who I perceive having it better than me.

 

I'm too busy being jealous to be empathic.

[Negative Nancy]

This conversation has occurred a lot lately. We get it, we are women and if we get hit on we should be happy. Forgetting I guess that maybe we want something other than sex and being desired for sex is meaningless when you guys ADMIT you would pretty much fk anyone who is not fugly!!!

 

So wow I should be FLATTERED that a guy would have sex with me? When he'd ALSO have sex with 90% of the other women he sees today?! Oh gee lucky me!

 

This is exactly it.

 

Telling a woman she is lucky and has it so much easier to get male attention and the she AT LEAST gets to have SEX is like telling a man to be content with a night of a nice conversation.

 

Because women usually want more than just sex, and men usually want more than just a conversation.

 

 

But go ahead and eavesdrop on any boys' night, regardless of the socioeconomic demographic. Most of the time, you'll hear at least a few comments about women they find attractive who happen to not be their partners. This is reality. Accept it.

 

Yes, unfortunately I have to agree from experience. Too bad men can never be content and happy with one woman.

[TheBigQuestion]

That's a pretty retarded point of view, That's no different than (this is a bad example) buying a woman a couple of drinks and then her just disappearing. While the people that got manipulated need to look out for, the people that did the manipulating are useless scum.

 

It would be a "pretty retarded point of view" if the only times men had sex with women without any romantic commitment resulted from their being manipulators. A lot of times what women insist is a man "manipulating" them is actually both their libidos getting them into trouble. Direct communication of wants and needs and having clear boundaries goes a long way in avoiding the types of unfortunate scenarios KraftDinner was addressing. But of course, in your seemingly endless quest to act as the LoveShack resident White Knight, you fail to take into account the many scenarios in which events between the sexes cannot be broken down into evil predators and frail prey. You immediately assume that I'm simply defending manipulators and blaming the victims. Classic lack of forethought sacrificed at the altar of hearing yourself talk.

[pinkie]

This post IMO is great!! If everyone would actually try to think deeper about what the OP is trying to say, so many difficulties in relationships would cease to exist. Porn addictions, are an issue for whom? Usually the female in the relationship... High sex drives in men are usually an issue for??? The female, again, typically, especially after marriage and/or having children. Not to generalize, I know of women with high sex drives. But on a 'fundamental' level... It's the 'understanding' of the differences of the X and Y chromosomes that is lacking... I see so many great relationships fall to the wayside because of this.

 

If you don't like sex or have a low sex drive, then why complain when your significant other relieves themselves by watching porn or masturbation? *Obviously it's a problem if it takes over daily life, and intimacy needed for the relationship to survive, but hell.. support it, at least he/she's not screwing every Tom, Dana or Henry/etta that walks by... Right?

 

And I must add... women and PMS.. it IS hard to control. That's why they make monthly OTC drugs for this, some even need prescriptions to keep them from being so crazy at that time of the month.

 

At any rate, sex is only a portion of what makes a relationship, a huge important portion, but not the only and it's the 'fundamental' differences that make it all the better. Women are nurturers, Men are hunters and gatherers.. Keep it simple!

[Lonely Ronin]

But of course, in your seemingly endless quest to act as the LoveShack resident White Knight, you fail to take into account the many scenarios in which events between the sexes cannot be broken down into evil predators and frail prey. You immediately assume that I'm simply defending manipulators and blaming the victims. Classic lack of forethought sacrificed at the altar of hearing yourself talk.

 

I don't assume crap, and I don't care what KraftDinner was referring to. I was directly responding to this statement.

 

If you consent to the sex, no one is using you.

 

That sounds exactly like some shi* a player would say.

[TheBigQuestion]

I don't assume crap, and I don't care what KraftDinner was referring to. I was directly responding to this statement.

 

 

 

That sounds exactly like some shi* a player would say.

 

It doesn't matter who you think is predisposed to saying it, it's true. Sex is a two way street, and rarely is the scenario as black and white as the one where the silky-smooth but evil man manipulates a woman into sleeping with him with promises of love and roses. Most of the unhappiness that results from casual sexual encounters actually results from a lack of mutually effective communication. Therefore, it can hardly be said that anyone is actually "used" in consensual sex in most cases.

[terlislee]

I don't know what's so great about being "an object of desire" just because of my gender and physical traits.

 

I don't enjoy having random guys approach me, in most cases they feel entitled to at least some kind of attention and often get defensive when you don't meet their expectations. It's like if you had random people approaching you selling things you have no interest in. It doesn't feel nice rejecting them and you always worry what their reaction will be.

 

I don't enjoy men staring at me either, whistling and having sexual remarks, I don't enjoy having to feel uncomfortable walking alone at night, being in places like subway when it's just me and a guy/s, going to bars and clubs having men pretend to be super interested and nice buying me a drink or just dancing with me and then getting agressive when I won't make out with them on the spot.

 

I don't enjoy being judged on my appearance and level of attractiveness by every new male I meet.

 

I'd much rather have one man interested in me as a person than a hundred guys wanting to **** me just because I have boobs and a vagina.

[xxoo]

It's very difficult if not impossible for me to have empathy for somebody that who I perceive having it better than me.

 

I'm too busy being jealous to be empathic.

 

There is nothing to be jealous of. Being wanted by men they don't want is not an advantage for women.

 

You imagine having the sexual options of a woman, with the sexual habits and desires of a man. That's really only a reality for gay men.

 

Yes, unfortunately I have to agree from experience. Too bad men can never be content and happy with one woman.

 

It is a mistake to conclude that sexual thoughts about other women equals dissatisfaction with one women. That's based on the common female experience, wherein all other men become sexually neutral when a woman is in love with one man (not a universal female experience, btw).

 

Men and women are different. That's the point. Men can be very in love, satisfied, happy, content, and faithful, all while remaining highly attracted to other women on a physical level.

[xxoo]

I don't know what's so great about being "an object of desire" just because of my gender and physical traits.

 

I don't enjoy having random guys approach me, in most cases they feel entitled to at least some kind of attention and often get defensive when you don't meet their expectations. It's like if you had random people approaching you selling things you have no interest in. It doesn't feel nice rejecting them and you always worry what their reaction will be.

 

I don't enjoy men staring at me either, whistling and having sexual remarks, I don't enjoy having to feel uncomfortable walking alone at night, being in places like subway when it's just me and a guy/s, going to bars and clubs having men pretend to be super interested and nice buying me a drink or just dancing with me and then getting agressive when I won't make out with them on the spot.

 

I don't enjoy being judged on my appearance and level of attractiveness by every new male I meet.

 

I'd much rather have one man interested in me as a person than a hundred guys wanting to **** me just because I have boobs and a vagina.

 

Because guys, with their constant sex drive, would LOVE to be in that position. It would be awesome for them.

 

Look at the gay community, where men can approach and hook up without any of the pretense of dating and relationships. It is an eye opener into just how horny men are Really, check out your local dating ads for men seeking men! They get right to the point, and no one complains about "objectification".

[somedude81]

There is nothing to be jealous of. Being wanted by men they don't want is not an advantage for women.

 

You imagine having the sexual options of a woman, with the sexual habits and desires of a man. That's really only a reality for gay men.

That's not exactly what I was thinking.

 

Did you see my Facebook thread?

 

I talked about the girl who changed her profile picture and got 10+ comments and over 20 likes, most of them from guys.

 

That's an insane amount of attention. Not to mention the other guys who are checking out her page who didn't comment or "like" it such as myself. I'd be willing to bet that at least five of those guys wanted to date her. Of course the are also guys off-line who are interested in her. Five additional guys would be a safe number. So that's at least ten total guys who would like to have a relationship with her.

 

Then we have me who currently has zero women interested.

 

How does she not have an advantage?

 

Please note I did not mention men that just want sex with her. I'm sure that number would be much higher.

[xxoo]

That's not exactly what I was thinking.

 

Did you see my Facebook thread?

 

I talked about the girl who changed her profile picture and got 10+ comments and over 20 likes, most of them from guys.

 

That's an insane amount of attention. Not to mention the other guys who are checking out her page who didn't comment or "like" it such as myself. I'd be willing to bet that at least five of those guys wanted to date her. Of course the are also guys off-line who are interested in her. Five additional guys would be a safe number. So that's at least ten total guys who would like to have a relationship with her.

 

Then we have me who currently has zero women interested.

 

How does she not have an advantage?

 

Please note I did not mention men that just want sex with her. I'm sure that number would be much higher.

 

It is only an advantage if the one or two guys she's pining to date actually leave a comment, which usually isn't the case.

[somedude81]

It is only an advantage if the one or two guys she's pining to date actually leave a comment, which usually isn't the case.

I typed all that and the only thing you addressed was leaving a comment about her picture. You basically just read three sentences.

 

Sigh....

[xxoo]

I typed all that and the only thing you addressed was leaving a comment about her picture. You basically just read three sentences.

 

Sigh....

 

The point is that it doesn't matter how much attention she has from men she doesn't want. For her, it only matters if she gets attention from the handful of men she feels "that way" about.

 

Just like it is irrelevant to you when the "bigger" girl likes you. It does you no good, because you have no interest in her.

[veggirl]

SD how many FB friends does that girl have? She probably adds everyone she meets in college. So no I wouldn't take 10 comments as anything to mean those guys wanna date her...esp if they are college guys. All it means is they think she is hot.

Edited December 29, 2012 by veggirl

[Lonely Ronin]

I typed all that and the only thing you addressed was leaving a comment about her picture. You basically just read three sentences.

 

Sigh....

 

What she said it true though, it doesn't mater if 100 guys like it, 20 guys comment, and 10 guys approach her tomorrow at the mall. If she isn't interested in any of them, it doesn't really matter.

[xxoo]

Think of it this way--

 

Women who struggle with dating often wish they could simply be attracted to the nice men who want to date them. Dating would be so much easier if they could simply flip a switch ON and feel sexual attraction. To the point that many try to fake it, hoping it will develop along the way.

 

It usually doesn't.

[somedude81]

SD how many FB friends does that girl have? She probably adds everyone she meets in college.

Can't tell. She only shows mutual friends. So wild guess, she probably has 200 friends on FB.

 

So no I wouldn't take 10 comments as anything to mean those guys wanna date her...esp if they are college guys. All it means is they think she is hot.

I take it many of her guy friends thinks she is hot and only 10 of them commented. 20 people liked it. So the safe estimate is that 20 people think she is hot, fallow her page and want to show that they think she's hot. As I said before there is no mention of how many guys think she is hot but don't fallow her page and or want to comment or "like." Just a random guess, lets say 10 more guys.

 

So that's 30 guys on Facebook who think she is hot.

 

Does it seem like a stretch that 5 of her guy FB friends want to date her?

 

And I'm sure that there are at least 5 guys right now, who know her in real life and aren't FB friends with her that would like to date her.

 

So that's 10 guys right now, (including me) that would like to date her. Does that seem unpossible?

 

The point is that it doesn't matter how much attention she has from men she doesn't want. For her, it only matters if she gets attention from the handful of men she feels "that way" about.

 

Just like it is irrelevant to you when the "bigger" girl likes you. It does you no good, because you have no interest in her.

So as I said in my previous post, she has 10 guys who are interested in her while I currently have zero. Just going by the numbers it's obvious who has the advantage.

 

I would love to have 10 girls into me. Would I be attracted to or interested in all ten? Of course not. Could I be interested in two of them? There's a strong possibility. I'd probably be willing to go on a trial date with five.

 

Long story short, with the increased amount of attention, there is also higher odds that somebody one would want to date would be amongst those numbers. And of course with no attention, there is no chance of there being somebody one would want to date.

 

That is the advantage. Just a higher chance of mutual interest.

[terlislee]

Because guys, with their constant sex drive, would LOVE to be in that position. It would be awesome for them.

 

Look at the gay community, where men can approach and hook up without any of the pretense of dating and relationships. It is an eye opener into just how horny men are Really, check out your local dating ads for men seeking men! They get right to the point, and no one complains about "objectification".

 

I do have gay friends so I can relate a bit

 

I guess I was also hinting at the fact that in general men don't feel physically threatened by women whereas women do by men which makes us more uncomfortable receiving and dealing with unwanted attention. The fact our bodies are some kind of object men want makes us feel vulnerable most of the time. People like SD see only the positives in their eyes like relatively easy sex (which as you said is irrelevant since 99% of cases we are not interested) but I bet they would change their mind pretty quickly were the roles reversed completely.

 

Of course it can feel good to be desired or get compliments, but that's only when I'm not expected to give something I don't want in return. OP asked about the negative side so I was talking about that.

[somedude81]

Think of it this way--

 

Women who struggle with dating often wish they could simply be attracted to the nice men who want to date them. Dating would be so much easier if they could simply flip a switch ON and feel sexual attraction. To the point that many try to fake it, hoping it will develop along the way.

 

It usually doesn't.

So that means that there are women out there who struggle with dating because they get tons of male attention from nice men who want to date them and they are not attracted to any of them.

 

My opinion? She needs to be in arranged marriage or she's going to become a cat lady and inadvertently cause a man to remain single.

 

Is growing old alone really better than being married to a guy who treats her like a queen even though she's not completely attracted to him? Not to mention she will most likely also have kids.

 

I do have gay friends so I can relate a bit

 

I guess I was also hinting at the fact that in general men don't feel physically threatened by women whereas women do by men which makes us more uncomfortable receiving and dealing with unwanted attention. The fact our bodies are some kind of object men want makes us feel vulnerable most of the time. People like SD see only the positives in their eyes like relatively easy sex (which as you said is irrelevant since 99% of cases we are not interested) but I bet they would change their mind pretty quickly were the roles reversed completely.

 

Of course it can feel good to be desired or get compliments, but that's only when I'm not expected to give something I don't want in return. OP asked about the negative side so I was talking about that.

If you read his post you would notice that SD didn't talk about sex at all.

[Negative Nancy]

Men telling women that they should be happy for ANY male attention and sexual interest is like women telling men they should be grateful that they at least got to have a nice conversation with a fat chick at the bar.

 

My point is, neither is what either gender REALLY wants....but hey, at least you have options, right.

[TheZebra]

 

So as I said in my previous post, she has 10 guys who are interested in her while I currently have zero. Just going by the numbers it's obvious who has the advantage.

 

I would love to have 10 girls into me. Would I be attracted to or interested in all ten? Of course not. Could I be interested in two of them? There's a strong possibility. I'd probably be willing to go on a trial date with five.

 

Long story short, with the increased amount of attention, there is also higher odds that somebody one would want to date would be amongst those numbers. And of course with no attention, there is no chance of there being somebody one would want to date.

 

That is the advantage. Just a higher chance of mutual interest.

 

What if all 10 girls were overweight? I'm just using that example because you mentioned not being attracted to them. Then would it really matter?

 

I think you just want the positive attention (from women) regardless of who's giving it to you; that's why you seem to think that getting that many likes and comments on FB is a good thing.

 

I agree with the other posters on this. Whenever I change my profile pic or post something interesting, I'm always hoping that one of the guys I'm interested in will like or comment. All 200 something of my other friends could post, but it wouldn;t mean as much as just having that one guy do something.