Hate how women rather ignore you than just say no.

[Nightsky]

For real?

 

Where is the logic?!

 

I grew up knowing that my grandmother thought my grandpa was a loser when she first met him. She actually told us that she laid on the floor so she would get sick so she could cancel the date they had planned. He was persistent though. Women can be attracted to that kind of confidence.

 

The trick is to not get obsessed with some girl you don't really know. Approach it logically. You just keep trying till you don't feel like trying anymore. That includes if they ignore you or say no. I like to think they're just a little scared and if I try some more they'll warm up to me. Obviously I use my common sense when to give up. No steadfast rule. Use your discretion and air on the side of trying more not less.

[MrCastle]

You know, this "friend zone" that you and some of the other guys here seem to be fearful of and obsessed with is really no big deal, and it's probably not a real friendship.[/Quote]

 

No big deal you say? If it was no big deal, as you claim, 50% of the members on this forum wouldn't be here. Many of the bitter men that you couldn't under any circumstances relate to or empathize with are here because they can't make the transition from friends to lovers. They're stuck in this "friendzone" that to you seems harmless, but in fact leaves a lot of men bitter and jaded. I'm not talking about women that serve as legitimate friends, I'm talking about women that keep men around to feed their ego and follow any command they have. I blame both the women who take advantage of said men and the men who let such women take advantage of them. You're right about the last line though--it's not a real friendship.

 

Women and men are all people. One gender does not exist just to provide sex for the other. People can have very valuable connections with each other regardless of their genders, even if there is some unfulfilled sexual tension between them. Why is that such a huge deal to guys like you? I think it's sad to dismiss half of the population from being in your life in any way other than a "hook up." Depressing to conceive of that.

 

I agree that men and women are both people. No one's saying they're not. What I said in this thread and the other is that friendships where one party has feelings for the other doesn't work. Both people have to want to just be friends and leave it at that. In my life, as a 25 year old single college kid, I'm not interested in making friends with females. I don't go out specifically seeking to make them. My objective first and foremost is to date them, if they turn down my request for a date, there's really no reason to continue speaking to them. It would be weird. Me wanting more than a friendship, them not being attracted to me. It just doesn't work.

 

MrCastle,

 

I sense a bit of flip flopping...

 

Here you say: "No interest whatsoever in befriending a member of the opposite sex."

 

Then later on you say that it only applies if you're INTERESTED in her.

 

The first comment...I think warrants some concern on how you view women.

 

But, if you really meant to say it only applies to women you are INTERESTED in...then that's different.

 

While I'm flattered you view me as someone worth quoting and disagreeing with in every thread we both post in, I am getting a little concerned about it.

 

I stand by all my statements. The ones in here and in the thread similar to this one. I am not interested in befriending a member of the opposite sex. Not saying it can't be done, not saying it doesn't work under any circumstances--I've spent the better part of my day bouncing back and forth between both threads explaining my stance on this issue. As a single man looking to date, I don't leave my front door hoping to make a female friend. That idea is not programmed in my mind. Like I told Chaucer, objective number one, and really, the only objective, is to date. After they reject my date, I see no reason for further communication. I explained why several times.

 

This is not objectifying women. What I'm doing in no way objectifies or disrespects women, so your concerns on how I view them is unwarranted.

 

I'm a single young straight man who's not looking for a long term relationship. So the women I meet, I hope to date, because my interest right now is in dating. If they choose not to date me, communication is over. I feel it's better for the both of us. She doesn't have to feel awkward about staying in contact with a guy she rejected, I don't stick around and fall into the friendzone trap. I think men and women who aren't attracted to each other can work, but if one has feelings for the other, it can't work.

 

I'm open to being friends with males and females whom I have no attraction to, and they feel the same as me. If I'm attracted to them, it can't work, and if they're attracted to me, they tend to get clingy, and I don't want to lead them on. Mutual unattraction is the only way it works in my opinion.

Edited December 29, 2012 by MrCastle

[Els]

 

I'm open to being friends with males and females whom I have no attraction to, and they feel the same as me.

 

But... you're not. You mentioned in several posts that you will not even talk to women whom you don't find attractive. You cannot possibly be open to being friends with people whom you are not even going to talk to, can you?

 

You can certainly do whatever you like, but your contradictory statements are confusing me. Half of your posts are about not hanging around like a puppy dog when there is unrequited love (that most of us agree with), but the other half is about how there is absolutely no purpose in female friends or in being friends with women, and that you don't have any because you don't talk to any women whom you're not interested in hooking up with. That is a totally different thing.

[Els]

For real?

 

Where is the logic?!

 

Haha, okay, I disagree with that claim. When I say no to a guy, I literally do mean no. I certainly can't speak for all other women though.

[joystickd]

No big deal you say? If it was no big deal, as you claim, 50% of the members on this forum wouldn't be here. Many of the bitter men that you couldn't under any circumstances relate to or empathize with are here because they can't make the transition from friends to lovers. They're stuck in this "friendzone" that to you seems harmless, but in fact leaves a lot of men bitter and jaded. I'm not talking about women that serve as legitimate friends, I'm talking about women that keep men around to feed their ego and follow any command they have. I blame both the women who take advantage of said men and the men who let such women take advantage of them. You're right about the last line though--it's not a real friendship.

 

 

 

I agree that men and women are both people. No one's saying they're not. What I said in this thread and the other is that friendships where one party has feelings for the other doesn't work. Both people have to want to just be friends and leave it at that. In my life, as a 25 year old single college kid, I'm not interested in making friends with females. I don't go out specifically seeking to make them. My objective first and foremost is to date them, if they turn down my request for a date, there's really no reason to continue speaking to them. It would be weird. Me wanting more than a friendship, them not being attracted to me. It just doesn't work.

 

 

 

While I'm flattered you view me as someone worth quoting and disagreeing with in every thread we both post in, I am getting a little concerned about it.

 

I stand by all my statements. The ones in here and in the thread similar to this one. I am not interested in befriending a member of the opposite sex. Not saying it can't be done, not saying it doesn't work under any circumstances--I've spent the better part of my day bouncing back and forth between both threads explaining my stance on this issue. As a single man looking to date, I don't leave my front door hoping to make a female friend. That idea is not programmed in my mind. Like I told Chaucer, objective number one, and really, the only objective, is to date. After they reject my date, I see no reason for further communication. I explained why several times.

 

This is not objectifying women. What I'm doing in no way objectifies or disrespects women, so your concerns on how I view them is unwarranted.

 

I'm a single young straight man who's not looking for a long term relationship. So the women I meet, I hope to date, because my interest right now is in dating. If they choose not to date me, communication is over. I feel it's better for the both of us. She doesn't have to feel awkward about staying in contact with a guy she rejected, I don't stick around and fall into the friendzone trap. I think men and women who aren't attracted to each other can work, but if one has feelings for the other, it can't work.

 

I'm open to being friends with males and females whom I have no attraction to, and they feel the same as me. If I'm attracted to them, it can't work, and if they're attracted to me, they tend to get clingy, and I don't want to lead them on. Mutual unattraction is the only way it works in my opinion.

The key thing is if you meet someone and they say "let's be friends" then take that as a rejection and move on. You are only put in the friendzone if you let yourself accept that in the pursuit of hoping for more. It's not about mutual unattraction it's about mutual understanding. If the male and female have an understanding about that it's friendship.

[MrCastle]

But... you're not. You mentioned in several posts that you will not even talk to women whom you don't find attractive. You cannot possibly be open to being friends with people whom you are not even going to talk to, can you?

 

You can certainly do whatever you like, but your contradictory statements are confusing me. Half of your posts are about not hanging around like a puppy dog when there is unrequited love (that most of us agree with), but the other half is about how there is absolutely no purpose in female friends or in being friends with women, and that you don't have any because you don't talk to any women whom you're not interested in hooking up with. That is a totally different thing.

 

I'm not looking for it Els. I don't know how many more times I can explain this. I said several times I don't go out seeking friendship. If if happens (with women I have no attraction to) then so be it, but it's rare because I don't go out looking for female friends.

[Els]

Then why is it that you have 0 female friends but many male ones? Did all of the men you're friends with seek you? Or do you seek friends actively, but they have to be male for you to do that?

[MrCastle]

Then why is it that you have 0 female friends but many male ones? Did all of the men you're friends with seek you? Or do you seek friends actively, but they have to be male for you to do that?

 

No. I have a very small circle of people I'd actually call friends. Around 5 or so true friends that are more like family at this point. Yes, they're all men. The rest of the people I meet, male or female are acquaintances. Women I'm on friendly terms with in school and such. If, through further interactions I get to know them better and become closer to them, and I'm not attracted to them, so we become friends? That's fine. That has not been the case though as my circle of friends is pretty tight. I'm friendly with everyone regardless of gender but I have only a few people I'd consider true friends. People that I trust with secrets and the like. It's about 4-5. It's not like I have 20 male friends and 0 female friends, and it's clearly a skewed number, I have 4-5 real friends period. I tend to keep my circle small and tight.

[Els]

Ah, okay, I gotcha. So you did not mean the 'I don't talk to any women whom I find unattractive' literally, I suppose?

[MrCastle]

Ah, okay, I gotcha. So you did not mean the 'I don't talk to any women whom I find unattractive' literally, I suppose?

 

No. That would be cold if I ignored someone completely just because I wasn't sexually attracted to them. I'm certainly on friendly terms with them, just not at the level I would consider them "friends"; integral people in my life whom I trust with secrets and support etc.

[Eclypse]

No. That would be cold if I ignored someone completely just because I wasn't sexually attracted to them. I'm certainly on friendly terms with them, just not at the level I would consider them "friends"; integral people in my life whom I trust with secrets and support etc.

 

Now you clarify! I only have a handful of people in my life I trust like that. In terms of friends though I don't think one should limit themselves based on sex. My office is full of females and it would be silly to not become friends with them. They're all very nice and I believe it is very beneficial to have both male and female friends in order to understand people as a whole better.

[Els]

No. That would be cold if I ignored someone completely just because I wasn't sexually attracted to them. I'm certainly on friendly terms with them, just not at the level I would consider them "friends"; integral people in my life whom I trust with secrets and support etc.

 

I think many of us (including the people who were happily liking your posts) define friends in a slightly different way. I'd call your friends 'close friends', and the others whom you hang out with or just talk to on a regular basis (but not exchanging secrets etc) 'friends'. I think most people by necessity have few enough close friends that them all being of one gender is a non-issue.

[Mrlonelyone]

The below is the old fashioned way that men won women. The "chase" involved a bit of chasing. This was before people were so petrified of being accused of harassment of some kind for talking to a woman.

 

In fact, people here would claim the below is impossible now.

 

I grew up knowing that my grandmother thought my grandpa was a loser when she first met him. She actually told us that she laid on the floor so she would get sick so she could cancel the date they had planned. He was persistent though. Women can be attracted to that kind of confidence.

 

The trick is to not get obsessed with some girl you don't really know. Approach it logically. You just keep trying till you don't feel like trying anymore. That includes if they ignore you or say no. I like to think they're just a little scared and if I try some more they'll warm up to me. Obviously I use my common sense when to give up. No steadfast rule. Use your discretion and air on the side of trying more not less.

 

 

The key thing is if you meet someone and they say "let's be friends" then take that as a rejection and move on. You are only put in the friendzone if you let yourself accept that in the pursuit of hoping for more. It's not about mutual unattraction it's about mutual understanding. If the male and female have an understanding about that it's friendship.

 

The other option is to not accept that and keep pursuing them as if they were a romantic interest. Not sheepishly accepting being friends but flirty and talking and touching and acting like their lover to an extent. Taking without asking and leaving it up to them to actively refuse you.

 

I think many of us (including the people who were happily liking your posts) define friends in a slightly different way. I'd call your friends 'close friends', and the others whom you hang out with or just talk to on a regular basis (but not exchanging secrets etc) 'friends'. I think most people by necessity have few enough close friends that them all being of one gender is a non-issue.

 

I wrote in another thread that some of these guys have a very black and white view of things. They can put everything into a binary system of two bins...but never look deeper. A woman is either a girlfriend or a *tich who won't have sex with them. Maybe thinking like that for a while is just what they need.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm not looking for it Els. I don't know how many more times I can explain this. I said several times I don't go out seeking friendship. If if happens (with women I have no attraction to) then so be it, but it's rare because I don't go out looking for female friends.

 

Not actively seeking women friends is a much different scenario than this:

 

I'm looking to hook up, you're not interested? There's the door. No interest whatsoever in befriending a member of the opposite sex.

 

Really, I don't think that ANY of my real friendships, regardless of the gender of the friends involved, happened because I was "looking for" friends. They just happened, grew and took root. I would not discount the possibility for that based upon gender, age, race, religion, or anything. True friends are a serious blessing.

[Celleste]

It never stops being frustrating.

 

Guess it takes balls to say no, which is why many women can't do it.

 

I’m one of those women who use to not respond and ignore. It was frustrating on my end because some men didn’t seem to get the hint that I was no longer interested.

 

I did have the balls to tell them that I wasn't interested but when I choose to explain why it wouldn’t work then the unwanted questions started flowing in. He might try to convince me to change my mind. We may argue or he will possibly make an offensive comment. In the end I just feel annoyed.

 

Now, since I’ve matured in the dating game I try not to ignore. I’ve met some decent guys who didn’t deserve the insensitive treatment. Plus it’s irritating for me. So to avoid the drama I’ve came up with a good line to end the dating relationship. It works and in the end they are either my friend or not.

 

I’ve been on the other side of the fence as well. Ignored. I came up with a dating rule for myself. I’ll text, call and leave a voicemail and will not initiate contact unless I hear from him again. If I don’t hear from the guy after 24 hours I assume he lost interest and move on.

 

Since I came up with that rule I realized that most men were not ignoring me but were playing mind/phone games.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Celleste