Have women overtaken men in the shallowness department?

[movingon12]

So let me get this straight:

 

If a woman flirts with you because you are very good looking = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you are popular = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you have status = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you have money = that's not ok?

 

Is that right? .

 

If so, what are the less attractive, less popular, and lower status but reasonably well off guys supposed to do to attract women?

 

Why can't they use what they have (in this case - money) as a foot in the door in the same way that a good looking guy would use his looks to get a foot in the door?

 

I really don't see the distinction. You're trying to set yourself apart from the others and make yourself desirable. Why is using money to do that unacceptable, but spending years (and money!) at the gym to get a great body is perfectly fine?

[movingon12]

If women are willing to accept things that are unfair to men, hopefully you can accept things that are unfair to women, like men using free drinks to get into women's panties, then dumping them like so much trash. It's unfair to women, but hey, I can live with that.

 

Exactly - it does go both ways. That's the point. And that's one of the reasons I don't take free drinks from guys I don't like.

[edgygirl]

- Based on a point of view of someone who has been both 20 yo AND 40 you.

...As opposed to, i.e. - you.

 

- Yes it was not about the money. His "experience" or lack of, and judgement are off. He feels like an unattractive guy that no girl would ever sincerely want to get to know. Even after getting the foot on the door be it through a drink for socializing or whatnot. That is probably the main issue hindering his success. He doesn't even know how to flirt, he admitted it above. Being paranoid about being used because of his lack of self esteem won't get him anywhere with women.

 

- Keep testing women whether they are after your money. Let's see where it gets you. You want to apply your PoV as a man to a woman's psyché, great. Good luck with that! Please see the few brilliant movingon12's posts above for reference to understand the differences in dating for women in each decade.

 

- A man asking a woman if he looks like an ATM is plain RUDE. If you don't understand it, it's not my issue.

 

"Do you actually believe that your genitals are lined with gold ?; that you are God's gift to mankind ?"

 

Eww. Some guys are real women haters It's disgusting even to hear someone can think like that. If you think about a woman in terms of her genitals when you consider whether to get her a drink or not, let's put it this way: I don't want your drink, thank you.

 

Bitterness? Haha. Not from this girl here. I am trying to convey to a 21 yo guy that he has no clue yet what it is to be in ITGeek position of being 40+ and not get any. I was trying to explain that the rules that apply to him and what women expect from him as a 21 yo are not the same unspoken rules that apply to a 40+ man. Again, please see movingon12 posts above for reference if you don't get it.

 

From what point of view.

 

 

He did not tell her anything, she tried to strike up a conversation.

Based on his experience and judging the situation he made a call.

It wasn't about the money, if you haven't figured that one out ... it was about the principle of being taken for a ride.

 

 

Testing a woman is exactly what guys should learn to do.

Afterall, women do in fact test guys.

Everything can be considered as a part of something greater, and can paint a picture of the person you are interacting with.

If you don't believe me, may i suggest you look into reading body language ?

 

 

So, if you came up to me at a bar and asked for an expensive drink, and i answered that i don't look like an ATM ... i would get slapped ?

The damn gall, who do you think you are ?

I am not normally a bad person, and i don't like to stir the pot, but if this scenario were to happen, i would do my best to have you charged with assault.

Just because you're entitled.

Who do you think you are ?

Do you actually believe that your genitals are lined with gold ?; that you are God's gift to mankind ?

 

 

Bitternes shines through this.

Edited December 25, 2012 by edgygirl

[Eclypse]

Without having read the entire thread I just want to say that I don't like to buy drinks for women just because they're... women? Do men get anything special?

 

I think it should all be in context. If I ask someone out, I'm going to pay for their drink, at least the first one. It's only fair if the person doing the asking pays for the first drink. No gender involved. In a relationship me and my girlfriend generally go halvesies when we go out, or one person pays one day, then another time the other person pays. Neither of us is exactly swimming in money so it would be stupid for one person to pay it all.

 

I also recall a few years ago a girl asked me out to a club, and when I got there she bought me a drink. It was quite kind of her, and I ended up having a very good night (she hooked up with me).

[Woggle]

I am not one of these guys who is against paying for anything but during my single days if I bought every woman I talked to a drink I would have been broke. If a woman need some kind of material reward to even talk to me then she would not be the one for me anyway. It would weed out the ones I had no interest in. I one had a woman who I wasn't even interested in ask me to buy her a drink when I was there to just have fun with my friends and I looked at her like she was out of mind. Once I decide I want to continue seeing a woman though I have no issue with treating her to stuff but that is a privilege not an entitlement.

 

I think the issue many men have with this is the way we hear some women thumb their nose at traditional gender roles and get mad at men for not adapting to the times but then expect men to live up to our traditional roles. If you are for gender equality which is a good thing it has be in every aspect.

[irc333]

Most women are very highly sensitive about their appearances more so than men. Most men just run a comb through their hair and put on some cologne and off they go, while women put more into their appearances.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there are some things women do to do for themselves, like working out, staying healthy, the more rational actions.

 

Sure they do it for themselves, but it also serves a dual purpose, but with the extreme measures, for instance, increasing their breast sizes. This is typically done to attraction from men, maybe little to do with themselves though.

 

Women know men tend to zone in on that area if they are enhanced, and don't tell me they don't show off their cleavage in order NOT to attract men.

 

 

Has it ever occurred to you that the trend is that woman want to do what they like, now that they can, for the first time since we exist on Earth, and their purpose is not become LIKE men?

 

AND that they do their best to look good so they can feel good in their skin?

 

Why do some men think that everything is about them?

[iris219]

So let me get this straight:

 

If a woman flirts with you because you are very good looking = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you are popular = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you have status = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you have money = that's not ok?

 

Is that right? .

 

If so, what are the less attractive, less popular, and lower status but reasonably well off guys supposed to do to attract women?

 

Why can't they use what they have (in this case - money) as a foot in the door in the same way that a good looking guy would use his looks to get a foot in the door?

 

I really don't see the distinction. You're trying to set yourself apart from the others and make yourself desirable. Why is using money to do that unacceptable, but spending years (and money!) at the gym to get a great body is perfectly fine?

 

I've been trying to figure this one out for awhile now.

 

On LS, some guys will say if she's attracted to a guy for anything other than how he looks, he's not going for it. Clearly, she's trying to use him for something. He will only accept raw animal lust based on physical attraction. But women attracted a guy for how he looks are labeled superficial.

 

Men are lucky that success and wealth legitimately increase how attractive they are to women. Women don't have this opportunity.

 

Hey, I found a way that dating is easier for men!

[Radu]

- Based on a point of view of someone who has been both 20 yo AND 40 you.

...As opposed to, i.e. - you.

Location and gender factor in too.

 

- Yes it was not about the money. His "experience" or lack of, and judgement are off. He feels like an unattractive guy that no girl would ever sincerely want to get to know. Even after getting the foot on the door be it through a drink for socializing or whatnot. That is probably the main issue hindering his success. He doesn't even know how to flirt, he admitted it above. Being paranoid about being used because of his lack of self esteem won't get him anywhere with women.

Completely agreed.

 

- Keep testing women whether they are after your money. Let's see where it gets you. You want to apply your PoV as a man to a woman's psyché, great. Good luck with that! Please see the few brilliant movingon12's posts above for reference to understand the differences in dating for women in each decade.

I think that user is female. In my life i have met only a few females who have genuinely given me good advice concerning women.

Mother [after prodding and calling BS on some stuff], sister [less prodding and no calling BS], the girl i was with in a short FWB relationship who was and still is a very close friend [straight and very adventurous in bed], a few lesbian girls who i made friends with ... completely honest advice from them.

Heterosexual females subconsciously don't want to give good dating advice to a heterosexual man ... generally. They have a vested interest in BS.

 

- A man asking a woman if he looks like an ATM is plain RUDE. If you don't understand it, it's not my issue.

I am a bit blunt IRL, it is part of my charm, i have delivered lines like those in public and made ppl laugh.

It's all in the delivery.

That being so, even if i was fully insulting, i would say that in IT Geek's situation.

 

"Do you actually believe that your genitals are lined with gold ?; that you are God's gift to mankind ?"

 

Eww. Some guys are real women haters It's disgusting even to hear someone can think like that. If you think about a woman in terms of her genitals when you consider whether to get her a drink or not, let's put it this way: I don't want your drink, thank you.

 

I am quoting your post :

"If a guy told me do I look like an ATM to you, I would either slap him in the face or just leave and not look back. It would be pathetic for a 40 yo to say so. "

 

This is assault, this is assault in most civilized countries.

Yes, i will think what i wrote of someone who either does this or advocates doing this.

If I, as a man did this to you as a woman, i would land in jail.

It's only fair that the standard applies to you as well ... oh wait, you are special because you are woman.

 

Bitterness? Haha. Not from this girl here. I am trying to convey to a 21 yo guy that he has no clue yet what it is to be in ITGeek position of being 40+ and not get any. I was trying to explain that the rules that apply to him and what women expect from him as a 21 yo are not the same unspoken rules that apply to a 40+ man. Again, please see movingon12 posts above for reference if you don't get it.

When IT Geek will be 35+ his dating life will significantly improve.

If at 21 he makes good money, chances are that will only improve in 14yrs.

While he may need some polishing in regards to how read women and overall act, his overall desirability will only improve.

[Mme. Chaucer]

This is the truth, never ever ever buy a random woman a drink.

 

You're not yet of drinking age, right?

[crude]

It's funny that some 40 year old women expect a man to pay the bills. They were born in 1972 when the Women's Movement was in full flight, yet they behave like they were born in the Middle Ages. I've seen 40 year old women make $90,000 a year and up as VP's and supervisors while their male underlings make 1/3 as much, yet they still expect a man to pay for their meals, drinks, and even trips? Women are so flexible; modern enough to accept bigger paychecks than many men, yet prehistoric enough to expect a man to pay for dates or even until death do us part. And it sure doesn't hurt if the guy is hot.

[Revolver]

Men are more shallow when it comes to looks. Women are more shallow when it comes to almost everything else. One of the reasons why so many women struggle to get into relationships is because they have too many requirements. Guys have only 2

[Woggle]

I act the same way with men I know though I do not date them. I am generous and I do things without even being asked but act like you are entitled to it and I turn into the stingiest person you can meet.

[Mme. Chaucer]

What is the big challenge of realizing that there are many, many men and women who are shallow, and many who aren't? What is the benefit of trying to lay the trait on one gender or the other?

[edgygirl]

Radu, please. Enough. I am not going to go back and forth discussing useless minutiae. and ITGeek is NOT 21. He is much older. That's the WHOLE point of my advice to him. You clearly didn't get ANY of my points if you thought ITGeek was 21.

 

 

When IT Geek will be 35+ his dating life will significantly improve.

If at 21 he makes good money, chances are that will only improve in 14yrs.

While he may need some polishing in regards to how read women and overall act, his overall desirability will only improve.

[edgygirl]

So let me get this straight:

 

If a woman flirts with you because you are very good looking = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you are popular = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you have status = that's ok?

 

If a woman flirts with you because you have money = that's not ok?

 

Is that right? .

 

If so, what are the less attractive, less popular, and lower status but reasonably well off guys supposed to do to attract women?

Why can't they use what they have (in this case - money) as a foot in the door in the same way that a good looking guy would use his looks to get a foot in the door?

 

I really don't see the distinction. You're trying to set yourself apart from the others and make yourself desirable. Why is using money to do that unacceptable, but spending years (and money!) at the gym to get a great body is perfectly fine?

 

genius. the whole post.

[edgygirl]

I never accepted free drinks from guys when I was in my early 20s unless I really liked them. I would never take one from a stranger. But most of my friends did - because we were students, we had no money. If a guy (or anyone for that matter) had offered to buy us bread we would probably have said yes. Is it fair that guys buy girls drinks but not v.v. - maybe no, but that's the way our society is.

 

When I was dating in my early 30s I would definitely expect a guy to offer. It's a code. It means: I think you're attractive, I'd like to get to you know you. But I wouldn't take a drink from a guy that I wasn't a least a little interested in. Life's too short to waste time chatting to someone you don't like just for the sake of a free drink.

 

If you're a man in your 30s+ you should expect to offer a girl a drink. The cost of the drink would depend on the location. The more expensive the bar, the more expensive the drink. If you end up buying dozens of drinks and no one ever gives you their number, you're either drinking with the wrong kind of girls or you're putting them off once you start speaking to them.

 

If a guy told me to 'buy my own drink' I would assume he had a major chip on his shoulder or wasn't interested.

 

And more genius

Edited December 25, 2012 by edgygirl

[Necromancer]

You're not yet of drinking age, right?

 

Ye and i don't drink.

 

People start to drink at 15-7, Almost all of my friends have fake id. I have few times been asked to buy drinks. Always said no.

 

Waste of money. Funny thing i know a friend of a friend who was leached for 120$ by this tactic in one night. He learned his lesson.

[LittlePrince]

I don't drink. Buy your own damn drinks.

[KungFuJoe]

There is nothing wrong with a woman wanting a man with money. Just because a woman wants a successful man, doesn't mean she plans on sucking him dry of it. It just means she doesn't want a jobless loser with no ambition or goals.

 

I think one of the BIGGEST problems on LS is that people view everything in black or white. It's all or none with a lot of the people here.

 

If a woman likes a guy with money...then that's ALL she wants. If a guy wants a good looking woman then that's ALL he wants. It doesn't work like that. People want the whole package and set priorities on qualities a person has.

 

For instance, for me personally, I would say my attraction to a woman is based on the following, in order or preference:

 

- Fun loving, carefree attitude...with some "naughty" in their personality.

- Being nice.

- Looks.

- Sexual ability.

- Career.

etc, etc, etc...

 

What that means is that if a girl exhibits the first two qualities but isn't the best looking woman around, yeah...I'll date her and would be in a LTR relationship. But I don't care how hot a woman is...if she doesn't have the right personality or is mean spirited...then no...it's not happening.

 

And yes, my history of dating (and not dating) have revolved around this criteria ever since I can remember.

[IT Geek]

Ok, I've been dateless for three years. I was married for 16 years before that, and dated her for 3 years before that. I'm not that bad off....yet.

 

I said that

 

I have not been approached by a woman in 25 years.

 

I never said I hadn't dated or anything like that in those 25 years. LOL

[EasyHeart]

Men are lucky that success and wealth legitimately increase how attractive they are to women. Women don't have this opportunity.

 

Hey, I found a way that dating is easier for men!

Plus, we have penises.

 

I wouldn't know what to do without mine!!!

[movingon12]

Oh, there's quite a distinction. If a female uses a male for money, then that is an indication of things to come. A female can't really do too much with the other three except say that she has a hot popular guy with status. Money is the lifeblood of a modern male. Money keeps guys who don't have the other three in the game. Money = power. If some frivolous woman comes and controls what he spends it on, he doesn't have much left...

 

This can be catastrophic for a guy like IT Geek who has been devoid of female affection for so long. Those rich guys in Silicon Valley who do terrible with women can easily become emasculated automatons if the wrong woman comes in. You control where a man's income goes, you control him. That's pretty much there is to it.

 

The way you write it is as though it's:

Step 1) buy girl drink

Step 2) marry her

 

There are intervening stages in a relationship. Yes there are some gold digger type women out there (though not, I suspect, nearly as many as you fear - not least because with divorce rates rising / pre nups becoming standard no sensible person would assume that all they need to do is marry a rich guy and they'll be set for life. It doesn't always happen like that anymore).

 

If a woman was only interested in his money, it would become obvious. It might take a couple of drinks, or maybe even a whole date, but it would be obvious and he would dump her. And yes, that would mean taking the risk of wasting the price of a couple of shots, and hell, maybe even a dinner, to find out that she's not the one. But if he's looking for a relationship, this is a risk he's going to have to take. If he really doesn't think he would be able to tell if she was just after his money, he might want to get friends/family involved in vetting her.

 

Alternatively, he could just wait until there's a massive shift in cultural norms and men stop offering drinks to women in bars, so he isn't the odd one out any more. But honestly, if he's going to wait until that becomes normal, he's going to be waiting for a very. long. time.

 

Like it or not, men buy women drinks in bars. Older women - who have their own money - are not going to waste half an hour of their friday night talking to some creepy guy just for the sake of a $10 drink (or $20 or $30 drink for that matter). Why would they? Many students probably would though, because it's the only way they can afford to get drunk!

 

If the OP is determined not to pay for a woman's drink in a bar, then fair enough, that's his right. But he has to realise that almost every other guy in the bar wouldfork out the price of a drink. And he's going to stand out as being stingy/uninterested by refusing. If his aim is to attract women, this is not a good start.

 

The first thing my husband did when we met was offer to buy me a drink (we shared it actually). Now we're married. If a girl takes a drink from you it doesn't mean she wants to steal your money. It's just part of the mating dance.

[edgygirl]

The way you write it is as though it's:

Step 1) buy girl drink

Step 2) marry her

 

There are intervening stages in a relationship. Yes there are some gold digger type women out there (though not, I suspect, nearly as many as you fear - not least because with divorce rates rising / pre nups becoming standard no sensible person would assume that all they need to do is marry a rich guy and they'll be set for life. It doesn't always happen like that anymore).

 

If a woman was only interested in his money, it would become obvious. It might take a couple of drinks, or maybe even a whole date, but it would be obvious and he would dump her. And yes, that would mean taking the risk of wasting the price of a couple of shots, and hell, maybe even a dinner, to find out that she's not the one. But if he's looking for a relationship, this is a risk he's going to have to take. If he really doesn't think he would be able to tell if she was just after his money, he might want to get friends/family involved in vetting her.

 

Alternatively, he could just wait until there's a massive shift in cultural norms and men stop offering drinks to women in bars, so he isn't the odd one out any more. But honestly, if he's going to wait until that becomes normal, he's going to be waiting for a very. long. time.

 

Like it or not, men buy women drinks in bars. Older women - who have their own money - are not going to waste half an hour of their friday night talking to some creepy guy just for the sake of a $10 drink (or $20 or $30 drink for that matter). Why would they? Many students probably would though, because it's the only way they can afford to get drunk!

 

If the OP is determined not to pay for a woman's drink in a bar, then fair enough, that's his right. But he has to realise that almost every other guy in the bar wouldfork out the price of a drink. And he's going to stand out as being stingy/uninterested by refusing. If his aim is to attract women, this is not a good start.

 

The first thing my husband did when we met was offer to buy me a drink (we shared it actually). Now we're married. If a girl takes a drink from you it doesn't mean she wants to steal your money. It's just part of the mating dance.

 

Genius again. Thank you! I might as well just copy and paste this next time some guy in this board says women are only after money

[KungFuJoe]

The way some people over analyze very simple aspects of dating...it's no wonder they are perpetually single.

[LittlePrince]

The way you write it is as though it's:

Step 1) buy girl drink

Step 2) marry her

 

There are intervening stages in a relationship. Yes there are some gold digger type women out there (though not, I suspect, nearly as many as you fear - not least because with divorce rates rising / pre nups becoming standard no sensible person would assume that all they need to do is marry a rich guy and they'll be set for life. It doesn't always happen like that anymore).

 

If a woman was only interested in his money, it would become obvious. It might take a couple of drinks, or maybe even a whole date, but it would be obvious and he would dump her. And yes, that would mean taking the risk of wasting the price of a couple of shots, and hell, maybe even a dinner, to find out that she's not the one. But if he's looking for a relationship, this is a risk he's going to have to take. If he really doesn't think he would be able to tell if she was just after his money, he might want to get friends/family involved in vetting her.

 

Alternatively, he could just wait until there's a massive shift in cultural norms and men stop offering drinks to women in bars, so he isn't the odd one out any more. But honestly, if he's going to wait until that becomes normal, he's going to be waiting for a very. long. time.

 

Like it or not, men buy women drinks in bars. Older women - who have their own money - are not going to waste half an hour of their friday night talking to some creepy guy just for the sake of a $10 drink (or $20 or $30 drink for that matter). Why would they? Many students probably would though, because it's the only way they can afford to get drunk!

 

If the OP is determined not to pay for a woman's drink in a bar, then fair enough, that's his right. But he has to realise that almost every other guy in the bar wouldfork out the price of a drink. And he's going to stand out as being stingy/uninterested by refusing. If his aim is to attract women, this is not a good start.

 

The first thing my husband did when we met was offer to buy me a drink (we shared it actually). Now we're married. If a girl takes a drink from you it doesn't mean she wants to steal your money. It's just part of the mating dance.

Starting in a bar is not a good start. All you'll pick up are alcoholics.