Have women overtaken men in the shallowness department?

[Lonely Ronin]

The fact that after a couple of minutes she was hinting that I should buy her one of those drinks was a big red flag....

 

Unattractive, shy guy buying $25 shots = Target for women with ulterior motives.

 

 

Ok, if your confident that was the case. How did you get out of the situation then?

[edgygirl]

The fact that after a couple of minutes she was hinting that I should buy her one of those drinks was a big red flag....

 

Unattractive, shy guy buying $25 shots = Target for women with ulterior motives.

 

Funny. I was going to ask why didn't you offer to buy her a drink. You say you make good money so it's not like it would make a significant difference in your life.

 

Why are men so paranoid? She was being flirty! You should have taken advantage of it, and see where it would go, instead of being so uptight and paranoid. No, not all women are gold diggers. Maybe this was the way she found to initiate conversation and be silly/charming. Stop over thinking! and stop being cheap too, women can sense that and it's not charming, at all.

[IT Geek]

Ok, if your confident that was the case. How did you get out of the situation then?

 

Oh, I'm definitely not confident...lol.

 

When she realized she wasn't getting a free shot of top-label she went back to her girlfriends.

[IT Geek]

Funny. I was going to ask why didn't you offer to buy her a drink. You say you make good money so it's not like it would make a significant difference in your life.

 

Why are men so paranoid? She was being flirty! You should have taken advantage of it, and see where it would go, instead of being so uptight and paranoid. No, not all women are gold diggers. Maybe this was the way she found to initiate conversation and be silly/charming. Stop over thinking! and stop being cheap too, women can sense that and it's not charming, at all.

 

Because regardless of the amount I don't like to be used.

 

I haven't had a woman actually approach me and try to start a conversation in 25 years. Why now, without an ulterior motive?

 

Maybe I was overthinking things. Analyzing things is part of my nature, which is why I make a great IT Geek and a sucky human in certain social situations.

[TheZebra]

I have seen slightly above average guys with hot gf, but geeky........ No.

 

Women do not like nerd\geeky men. period.

 

I'll take the nerd over the jock any day of the week. It's not about what they like/how smart they are that determines whether a woman likes them, it's everything else.

 

Nerds/Geeks tend to have low self esteem, be spineless, don't take care of personal hygeine, terrible/awkward in social situations, don't know when to stop talking about their interest, and many are low achievers who say they're intelligent but lazy. At least, in my own experience. That's why women don't like them.

 

You give me a nice, confident guy who doesn't live in his mother's basement and I could not care less whether he loves football or Star Trek.

[edgygirl]

Because regardless of the amount I don't like to be used.

 

I haven't had a woman actually approach me and try to start a conversation in 25 years. Why now, without an ulterior motive?

 

Maybe I was overthinking things. Analyzing things is part of my nature, which is why I make a great IT Geek and a sucky human in certain social situations.

 

Okay and that's why you're here and people are nice and trying to help everyone without ulterior motives right? So listen!

 

Stop feeling so insecure! I think that's your main problem!

 

I am a woman and I'm telling you these things are normal and happen all the time and it doesn't necessarily mean she is a gold digger. Maybe she is, but next time go with the flow. You can't possibly know if she was using you, and you won't know now because you didn't try. Next time just do it without being paranoid of being used. Even handsome men offer to pay for drinks all the time.

 

Relax man. If you're paranoid about being used you'll never have a chance of starting a relationship. Relationships are about exchanges, that's life. Is it that bad to pay for a drink and have a convo, guys do it all the time. Weren't you thinking about paying someone to go to a party with you the other day? What's the difference? You pay a drink, enjoy the convo and see where it goes. I don't call it being used. It's normal while being out in the town. Even if it leads nowhere. You could have said jokingly okay I'll pay for this one but then you have to invite me for another drink next week and see her reaction. And maybe you'd have a date with an attractive girl set up.

 

See, who lost in all this? Think about it for next time. Go with the flow and stop being so self conscious. If you don't have the looks but have to get your foot in the door and it requires a $25 drink OR a $1.5 PBR, just do it! And then win her over with your intelligence or whatever you have to offer.

[Lonely Ronin]

I'm sorry but it just doesn't happen like this. It's been proven that paying for drinks gets guys nowhere. This money adds up over time. In this recessionary economy, it is better to err on the side of caution with monetary matters, especially when it comes to spending money on strange women.

 

Most of the bar interactions that I've seen with women involve the guy buying a drink and then getting nowhere because she simply wasn't interested to begin with.

 

Buying drinks can work, in fact it has worked for me several times over the years. The issue that I see, is that most guys are absolute crap when it comes to reading women. Edgy's suggestion, was actually a good way of getting a read on a woman.

[edgygirl]

I'm sorry but it just doesn't happen like this. It's been proven that paying for drinks gets guys nowhere. This money adds up over time. In this recessionary economy, it is better to err on the side of caution with monetary matters, especially when it comes to spending money on strange women.

 

Most of the bar interactions that I've seen with women involve the guy buying a drink and then getting nowhere because she simply wasn't interested to begin with.

 

Okay but I think you're 20 and this guy is over 40 (in fact I have no clue, just a guess from your and his posts, sorry if I'm wrong) and I think it's a different situation. Basically he is not scraping for money. And he keeps complaining that girls reject him and never give him a chance to get to know him. If I was a guy and a girl approaches me for the first time in 25 years, I wouldn't say no! The other day he was considering hiring companion to go to a party. So he might as well have paid for a drink and get something out of it and get to know the woman who was flirting with him. And let her know him. I see nothing so wrong with that. If she was only interested in the drink he would have found out pretty quickly and learn something from it. Now he is siting at home and has no date and will never know if it could have worked out. Is that better? Oh well. You guys are paranoid with the gold digging stuff... I am no gold digger and I don't think this woman necessarily was either. I think it's him, over thinking and not knowing how to flirt.

[edgygirl]

Buying drinks can work, in fact it has worked for me several times over the years. The issue that I see, is that most guys are absolute crap when it comes to reading women. Edgy's suggestion, was actually a good way of getting a read on a woman.

 

I mean look it's not like it's not fun and flattering to have a guy pay for a drink at a bar. But I at least, never saw it as "yay, free drink". It's more like "yay, he's being caring, how nice of him, seems like a gentleman. let's see what this guy is about".

 

Now, I did hear a girl or two being excited about getting free drinks. Even girls in late 30s. So not all girls are the same. How can you tell? Go with the flow and find out. If you don't, don't complain that you aren't getting any chances, specially if you don't get many chances and the opportunity presents itself once in a while.

 

That's not to say that you have to be the fool who keeps paying drinks for all girls. Try to read them (I know it's hard though) and don't be paranoid!

[edgygirl]

Ever considered the possibility that you're physically attractive and that those men who can't "read" women aren't?

 

I've never seen your photo but I've read enough of your posts to come to the this conclusion and I seem to remember you mentioning that you're also tall.

 

In my view, even if a guy is unattractive, if he can get a foot in the door (through buying a drink or whatever), and have good convo, and be charismatic, make her laugh etc., he might win a girl even if he's not traditionally attractive. Just sayin'. Women like personality as well! If he can't get girls based on looks, he needs other strategies to get the foot on the door. Or should he stay at home posting on LS every night?

[Lonely Ronin]

Ever considered the possibility that you're physically attractive and that those men who can't "read" women aren't?

 

I've never seen your photo but I've read enough of your posts to come to the this conclusion and I seem to remember you mentioning that you're also tall.

 

if that's the case, then it should work everytime shouldn't it? well I can tell you that it hasn't, because like edgy said some women do just want free drinks. some woman just wanna have a guy flirt with them, and some of them are actually interested. like I said earlier, most guys suck at figuring out who is who.

[nessaaa]

Women are awesome these days i must say.

Theyve become better players, better heart breakers, better liars ...we just dont give a **** anymore yaaayyyy.

[Imported]

if that's the case, then it should work everytime shouldn't it? well I can tell you that it hasn't, because like edgy said some women do just want free drinks. some woman just wanna have a guy flirt with them, and some of them are actually interested. like I said earlier, most guys suck at figuring out who is who.

 

 

I think it's a game for some girls to spend zero $$ at clubs, but always have a drink. I was turned off to it long ago when I use to pass through Guam a lot on my way somewhere else. Lots of "Buy me drink..." bars in Guam where girls who are pretty much hookers will sit and talk to you as long as you keep buying them drinks. These weren't even strip bars and these girls don't actually offer sexual services. They just sit and talk to you if you buy them drinks. This is how I view girls that want me to buy them drinks. Look, if I take a girl out, if I meet a girl and like her enough, she is covered, I will take care of everything, but don't ever walk up to me expecting ****. I don't owe anybody anything, I don't care who you think you are. You're not that attractive where I am going to spend 1 cent on you hoping you'll talk to me.

 

 

If a little girl walks up to me and assumes I am going to buy her a drink or ask me to buy her a drink, most times I will just say no please leave, completely interrupt and cut her off before she even finishes what she is saying and then ignore her totally. Usually that is enough to make her feel stupid and walk away like an idiot. However, if I am really feeling it and it is apparent to me her and her little friends are making a game out of duping guys into paying for all their **** (I have great situational awareness drunk or sober) or if she is stupid enough to talk **** after I start ignoring her, I will completely go out of my way to humiliate her. I know what to say, I know what the response will probably be, I know how to ad lib to them.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Imported

[IT Geek]

I think it's him, over thinking and not knowing how to flirt.

 

I think you're right, at least partially.

[Necromancer]

If you want to dismiss me for my age, you can go on right ahead. I just know that paying for drinks with girls generally doesn't work. Just because there are outlying cases doesn't mean it works a majority of the time. People think their experiences that are exceptions to the rule means that the rule is invalid. No, it is not. You shouldn't need to buy a woman a drink to get "a read" on her. Screw that.

 

If she wanted to really talk to IT Geek so bad, she could have easily bought your her own drink. He could have said "join me for a drink" and if the girl is waiting for something he could easily say "well, aren't you going to buy a drink?" if she says "I was hoping you could get one for me", then that means she's a waste of time. By automatically buying a drink for her, you skip this crucial stage of qualification and you make her have more importance than she should have. She hasn't done anything to make you buy her a drink other than being in your presence. When you buy a drink for a girl, she could easily zone out and just nod her head to everything you say and not be involved in the conversation. When girls get drinks bought by guys, that doesn't necessarily mean they're the "gold digger" type but they may be out to make it seem like a game.

 

One of my friends got hit with this when he bought some top shelf liquor and he asked the girl "Look at me. Do I look like an ATM to you?" She was baffled. She never had a guy do that to her in her life. Most just say "yes" or "no". This was a roundabout way of saying no that made my friend "unique" in her mind. He ended up taking her home that night.

 

Buying drinks for girls is for suckers and spineless guys. IT Geek did the right thing.

 

By the way, I'm not 20.

 

This is the truth, never ever ever buy a random woman a drink.

[Radu]

ITGeek, you should have bought her the cheapest beer.

 

edgygirl, to understand how it feels to be in his shoes, you would have to actually buy drinks to guys for a long time and see them sip them with the hunk they want to take home. Then let's see how glad you will be with whipping out the wallet. Those girls sometimes go on a girl's night out with the sole purpose of seeing who can get the most expensive drink. It makes us schmucks [AFC's if you care] feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

I'll even go further.

An escort is 100euros / h here [200 for a very good one].

For that money, she will have sex with me.

Buying drinks to women in the manner that IT Geek described will have me spending tens of thousands of dollars [at the rate of 25$ a shot], before i have sex with one.

At least the escort is honest.

Edited December 25, 2012 by Radu

[edgygirl]

My advice was specifically for ITGeek and the specific situation he mentioned. I've been here for a month and he keeps complaining he can't get girls even to look at him an give him a chance. He missed an opportunity for that to happen. If buying a drink is the only way he can get a woman to look past his looks and listen to him and maybe give him a chance, so be it. He certainly can afford it as he is an established professional past 40 yo.

 

I am not telling any 20 year old guy to keep buying drinks for party girls looking to freeload, that would be ridiculous. Specially because guys at that age don't usually have money.

[edgygirl]

I am not dismissing anyone. I am saying that being 20 and out on the town is not the same as being 40 and being out on the town. Being 20 and on a date is not the same as being 40 and on a date. A 20s guys date with a woman is not the same as a 40s guy date with a woman. Would you disagree with that? If you do, it's because you are too young to understand it yet. You will, one day.

 

Who said "she really wanted to talk with ITGeek"? What I said is that she expressed interest, something that apparently he hasn't seen in 25 years. Why let that go without checking? Can you imagine not getting attention from a woman in the next 25 years? Would you like that?

 

It's ridiculous for a 40 yo man to tell the woman to join him for a drink and then tell her to pay for it. You don't get it because of your age, sorry. It would be normal in your age, but not in his.

 

It's ridiculous to qualify women through testing her if she would pay for her own drink. You are talking as a 20 yo, sorry. Maybe it applies to your age range, but it sounds cheap and pathetic for a man my age. Sorry.

 

If a guy told me do I look like an ATM to you, I would either slap him in the face or just leave and not look back. It would be pathetic for a 40 yo to say so.

 

So I checked your initial post and you're 21. Oh! What a big difference, wow! Does it matter?

 

Let's see when you've been single and dateless for 25 years from now if you'd buy a woman a drink or not. I hope you don't have to find out!

 

I am not dissing out 20s guys. It's just that you have a different perspective in life and what applies to older guys does not apply to you. Got it?

 

If you want to dismiss me for my age, you can go on right ahead. I just know that paying for drinks with girls generally doesn't work. Just because there are outlying cases doesn't mean it works a majority of the time. People think their experiences that are exceptions to the rule means that the rule is invalid. No, it is not. You shouldn't need to buy a woman a drink to get "a read" on her. Screw that.

 

If she wanted to really talk to IT Geek so bad, she could have easily bought your her own drink. He could have said "join me for a drink" and if the girl is waiting for something he could easily say "well, aren't you going to buy a drink?" if she says "I was hoping you could get one for me", then that means she's a waste of time. By automatically buying a drink for her, you skip this crucial stage of qualification and you make her have more importance than she should have. She hasn't done anything to make you buy her a drink other than being in your presence. When you buy a drink for a girl, she could easily zone out and just nod her head to everything you say and not be involved in the conversation. When girls get drinks bought by guys, that doesn't necessarily mean they're the "gold digger" type but they may be out to make it seem like a game.

 

One of my friends got hit with this when he bought some top shelf liquor and he asked the girl "Look at me. Do I look like an ATM to you?" She was baffled. She never had a guy do that to her in her life. Most just say "yes" or "no". This was a roundabout way of saying no that made my friend "unique" in her mind. He ended up taking her home that night.

 

Buying drinks for girls is for suckers and spineless guys. IT Geek did the right thing.

 

By the way, I'm not 20.

[sweetkiwi]

ITGeek, you should have bought her the cheapest beer.

 

edgygirl, to understand how it feels to be in his shoes, you would have to actually buy drinks to guys for a long time and see them sip them with the hunk they want to take home. Then let's see how glad you will be with whipping out the wallet. Those girls sometimes go on a girl's night out with the sole purpose of seeing who can get the most expensive drink. It makes us schmucks [AFC's if you care] feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

I'll even go further.

An escort is 100euros / h here [200 for a very good one].

For that money, she will have sex with me.

Buying drinks to women in the manner that IT Geek described will have me spending tens of thousands of dollars [at the rate of 25$ a shot], before i have sex with one.

At least the escort is honest.

This is true. I had an ex who encouraged me to get free drinks from guys at the bar knowing he was taking me home.

 

Here in Italy women never pay for drinks. My ex's friends would even buy me drinks. For a woman to purchase her own drink here it is very strange and honestly only unattractive women have to do it.

 

I have bought guys drinks here which is so odd to them. And you literally have to race to the cash register because they will NOT let you pay for their drink knowingly.

[sweetkiwi]

ITGeek, you should have bought her the cheapest beer.

 

edgygirl, to understand how it feels to be in his shoes, you would have to actually buy drinks to guys for a long time and see them sip them with the hunk they want to take home. Then let's see how glad you will be with whipping out the wallet. Those girls sometimes go on a girl's night out with the sole purpose of seeing who can get the most expensive drink. It makes us schmucks [AFC's if you care] feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

 

I'll even go further.

An escort is 100euros / h here [200 for a very good one].

For that money, she will have sex with me.

Buying drinks to women in the manner that IT Geek described will have me spending tens of thousands of dollars [at the rate of 25$ a shot], before i have sex with one.

At least the escort is honest.

This is true. I had an ex who encouraged me to get free drinks from guys at the bar knowing he was taking me home.

 

Here in Italy women never pay for drinks. My ex's friends would even buy me drinks. For a woman to purchase her own drink here it is very strange and honestly only unattractive women have to do it.

 

I have bought guys drinks here which is so odd to them. And you literally have to

 

race to the cash register because they will NOT let you pay for their drink knowingly.

[movingon12]

I never accepted free drinks from guys when I was in my early 20s unless I really liked them. I would never take one from a stranger. But most of my friends did - because we were students, we had no money. If a guy (or anyone for that matter) had offered to buy us bread we would probably have said yes. Is it fair that guys buy girls drinks but not v.v. - maybe no, but that's the way our society is.

 

When I was dating in my early 30s I would definitely expect a guy to offer. It's a code. It means: I think you're attractive, I'd like to get to you know you. But I wouldn't take a drink from a guy that I wasn't a least a little interested in. Life's too short to waste time chatting to someone you don't like just for the sake of a free drink.

 

If you're a man in your 30s+ you should expect to offer a girl a drink. The cost of the drink would depend on the location. The more expensive the bar, the more expensive the drink. If you end up buying dozens of drinks and no one ever gives you their number, you're either drinking with the wrong kind of girls or you're putting them off once you start speaking to them.

 

If a guy told me to 'buy my own drink' I would assume he had a major chip on his shoulder or wasn't interested.

[irc333]

Since the beginning of time, men are visual, always have been , always will be....doesn't make them shallow though..as ironic as that may seem.

 

But there's a trend, in general, of women wanting to be LIKE men in all aspects.

 

I mean, women are loving sports, back in the day, women abhore sports and got lonely when it was the play offs before the superbowl. lol

 

Seems women are joining in the fray of trying to be like men.

 

But, of course, women are doing their best to physically LOOK good for men, too, otherwise they wouldn't have make-up or any other enhancements to make them more visually appealing to men.

 

 

Men will always be more into looks than women. On the flip side, women will care more about status than men.

 

It's how the world works and one is not more shallow than the other.

 

The sooner you accept it and just move on with your life the better.

[Radu]

I am not dismissing anyone. I am saying that being 20 and out on the town is not the same as being 40 and being out on the town. Being 20 and on a date is not the same as being 40 and on a date. A 20s guys date with a woman is not the same as a 40s guy date with a woman. Would you disagree with that? If you do, it's because you are too young to understand it yet. You will, one day.

From what point of view.

 

Who said "she really wanted to talk with ITGeek"? What I said is that she expressed interest, something that apparently he hasn't seen in 25 years. Why let that go without checking? Can you imagine not getting attention from a woman in the next 25 years? Would you like that?

 

It's ridiculous for a 40 yo man to tell the woman to join him for a drink and then tell her to pay for it. You don't get it because of your age, sorry. It would be normal in your age, but not in his.

He did not tell her anything, she tried to strike up a conversation.

Based on his experience and judging the situation he made a call.

It wasn't about the money, if you haven't figured that one out ... it was about the principle of being taken for a ride.

 

It's ridiculous to qualify women through testing her if she would pay for her own drink. You are talking as a 20 yo, sorry. Maybe it applies to your age range, but it sounds cheap and pathetic for a man my age. Sorry.

Testing a woman is exactly what guys should learn to do.

Afterall, women do in fact test guys.

Everything can be considered as a part of something greater, and can paint a picture of the person you are interacting with.

If you don't believe me, may i suggest you look into reading body language ?

 

If a guy told me do I look like an ATM to you, I would either slap him in the face or just leave and not look back. It would be pathetic for a 40 yo to say so.

So, if you came up to me at a bar and asked for an expensive drink, and i answered that i don't look like an ATM ... i would get slapped ?

The damn gall, who do you think you are ?

I am not normally a bad person, and i don't like to stir the pot, but if this scenario were to happen, i would do my best to have you charged with assault.

Just because you're entitled.

Who do you think you are ?

Do you actually believe that your genitals are lined with gold ?; that you are God's gift to mankind ?

 

So I checked your initial post and you're 21. Oh! What a big difference, wow! Does it matter?

 

Let's see when you've been single and dateless for 25 years from now if you'd buy a woman a drink or not. I hope you don't have to find out!

 

I am not dissing out 20s guys. It's just that you have a different perspective in life and what applies to older guys does not apply to you. Got it?

Bitternes shines through this.

[edgygirl]

Has it ever occurred to you that the trend is that woman want to do what they like, now that they can, for the first time since we exist on Earth, and their purpose is not become LIKE men?

 

AND that they do their best to look good so they can feel good in their skin?

 

Why do some men think that everything is about them?

 

Since the beginning of time, men are visual, always have been , always will be....doesn't make them shallow though..as ironic as that may seem.

 

But there's a trend, in general, of women wanting to be LIKE men in all aspects.

 

I mean, women are loving sports, back in the day, women abhore sports and got lonely when it was the play offs before the superbowl. lol

 

Seems women are joining in the fray of trying to be like men.

 

But, of course, women are doing their best to physically LOOK good for men, too, otherwise they wouldn't have make-up or any other enhancements to make them more visually appealing to men.

[crude]

Is it fair that guys buy girls drinks but not v.v. - maybe no, but that's the way our society is.

 

 

If women are willing to accept things that are unfair to men, hopefully you can accept things that are unfair to women, like men using free drinks to get into women's panties, then dumping them like so much trash. It's unfair to women, but hey, I can live with that.