wanted from male LS regulars

[CantgetoveritNY]

I'm a male BS that is trying to understand the point of view of my WW and her OM/MM. I've seen some of you posting how you found reading the OW/OM threads helpful. I've been over there a few times and not found much of interest. Maybe some of you could post some links to old thread you found interesting?

[jwi71]

I'm a male BS that is trying to understand the point of view of my WW and her OM/MM. I've seen some of you posting how you found reading the OW/OM threads helpful. I've been over there a few times and not found much of interest. Maybe some of you could post some links to old thread you found interesting?

 

If you want to know your WW's PoV ask her.

 

Not just sone variant of "why" for the umpteenth time - instead ask of her life, her thoughts, her emotions and how YOU exacerbated them in the weeks/months preceding her decision to cheat.

 

There IS a logical thought process there. One can construct each crossroad and understand, to some degree, why your WW made the decisions she made. You DID influence that faulty thought process. So ask.

[CantgetoveritNY]

If you want to know your WW's PoV ask her.

 

Not just sone variant of "why" for the umpteenth time - instead ask of her life, her thoughts, her emotions and how YOU exacerbated them in the weeks/months preceding her decision to cheat.

 

There IS a logical thought process there. One can construct each crossroad and understand, to some degree, why your WW made the decisions she made. You DID influence that faulty thought process. So ask.

 

I have asked her. She has told me some. But she really hates talking about it. And I'm sure she minimizes and does damage control.

[jwi71]

I have asked her. She has told me some. But she really hates talking about it. And I'm sure she minimizes and does damage control.

 

Of course.

 

Who would want to?

(but she HAS to, I know)

 

You're best move, IMO, is to move at her pace. And it's a fine line between giving her space and moving forward.

 

It was years after the A before I had it "all". And we D. However, in time I was able to piece it together and get a fairly complete picture of the last 18 months of our M.

 

Seek MC as well as IC for you each. All all three therapists to communicate.

 

It takes time my friend. I know it's hard but you gotta give it time.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

I'm a male BS that is trying to understand the point of view of my WW and her OM/MM. I've seen some of you posting how you found reading the OW/OM threads helpful. I've been over there a few times and not found much of interest. Maybe some of you could post some links to old thread you found interesting?

 

I don't find those type of threads helpful but quite the opposite. I find them to be infuriating and hurtful. It's still hard for me to read how callous and selfish individuals can be in their relationships.

 

I tried to understand the other point of view for the longest time and I eventually gave up. It was too exhausting and frustrating.

 

I spent over a year asking the "how could she?" question(s). It drove me crazy until I had an epiphany: she was not who I thought she was!

 

It was a difficult time to understand how she could treat me so badly because the person that I thought she was would NEVER do that. It was a hard pill to swallow to accept that she actually WAS willing and capable of carrying out her affair. Once I had my epiphany then I began to heal in that area. That haunting question of "how could she?" began to fade away. I had to accept that she did what she did even if I previously thought it an impossible turn of events.

 

What you are experiencing is nothing new. It's part of the process. You are not her, so you will probably never fully understand her perspective even if she if forthright with it. (On the flip side, my wife is not me and will not fully understand my side of the equation.)

 

Think about it. How many people get married with the pre-concieved notion that their spouse will cheat on them? Not me! It's hard to accept the reality of it. My rose colored glasses are no more.

[GLDheart]

...she was not who I thought she was!

 

My Dad kept saying that to me. It was tough to really fully understand what he was trying to say to me... I was still stuck trying to figure it all out. It was like some broken loop of thought in my head.

 

And you're right. In the end, it's that simple: "She is not who I thought she was."

 

With that said, I could accept that I HAD MADE A MISTAKE. I had placed my trust in the wrong person. This pain I felt is now on me. It was my choice to gamble on her. The bet was a bad bet. I lost. But with this acceptance it helps me move on. I now know what I DON'T want in a partner... and since that is her. I don't want her.

 

All these thoughts feel a bit crazy but now I don't need to "get it" anymore. I just accept that she did a pretty messed up thing... on SOOOO many levels. That's on her. Protecting myself moving forward and making the right choice, That's on me.

Edited December 24, 2012 by GLDheart

[drifter777]

I don't find those type of threads helpful but quite the opposite. I find them to be infuriating and hurtful. It's still hard for me to read how callous and selfish individuals can be in their relationships.

 

I tried to understand the other point of view for the longest time and I eventually gave up. It was too exhausting and frustrating.

 

I spent over a year asking the "how could she?" question(s). It drove me crazy until I had an epiphany: she was not who I thought she was!

 

It was a difficult time to understand how she could treat me so badly because the person that I thought she was would NEVER do that. It was a hard pill to swallow to accept that she actually WAS willing and capable of carrying out her affair. Once I had my epiphany then I began to heal in that area. That haunting question of "how could she?" began to fade away. I had to accept that she did what she did even if I previously thought it an impossible turn of events.

 

What you are experiencing is nothing new. It's part of the process. You are not her, so you will probably never fully understand her perspective even if she if forthright with it. (On the flip side, my wife is not me and will not fully understand my side of the equation.)

 

Think about it. How many people get married with the pre-concieved notion that their spouse will cheat on them? Not me! It's hard to accept the reality of it. My rose colored glasses are no more.

 

Great post.

 

I too thought my wife was incapable of betraying my trust and stabbing me in the heart. I was in denial for years while I stuffed the whole thing into the back of my mind. I never had the epiphany you refer to, but I finally accepted that she was the kind of person who could and did devastate me like she did and that my decision to stay for the kids was wrong. I owed her the same level of hurt and swore vengeance once the kids were grown. During those years she proved, by real actions, that she was no longer that person. She eventually showed true remorse and was genially ashamed of what she did. I finally realized that I did not want to hurt the woman she had become and that it was ok for me to hate the woman she was and what she did. I worked to forgive but only reached acceptance; and that will have to be good enough.

 

I still see a counselor and have recently had a different kind of epiphany. While I understand that the way you grow up and your family of origin has a tremendous impact on your ability to forgive, it also impacts the depth of pain that you feel when you are betrayed. I was physically and mentally abused growing up and I learned to believe that I was fundamentally a bad person. I was unlovable. To survive I had to pretend I was a different person - a better person - in order to be loved. I lived in constant fear that people would find out that I didn't deserve to be loved, so when anyone betrayed me I knew that I had been found out; that I deserved it. The horrible pain of betrayal crushed me and mind reacted with overwhelming shame that the real me had been revealed. I was terrified that everyone would find out that I was the kind of person someone would do this to so I worked desperately to cover up what had happened to me. To share the truth and depth of my pain meant revealing the betrayal and that I was truly worthless.

 

By the time I was a young adult this behavior was automatic; uncontrollable. When my wife betrayed me I knew I deserved it the overwhelming shame I felt triggered my defense mechanism and it kicked in to protect me. It cause me to do everything I possibly could to minimize it, hide it, and stuff it away in my mind where it could get lost and just go away. The problem was that my mind was so full of hurt and betrayal that it couldn't hold everything in forever and eventually I had to face it and work through it. I did the vast majority of this work before I understood why it took so long to truly feel the pain she caused and understand that I didn't deserve it and I shouldn't have worked so hard to smooth things over back then.

 

I am not the only person who was abused as a child and learned a defense mechanism that served me well back then but could not work when I reached adulthood. I am motivated to share my story with other BS's because many of them are not facing their true feelings now which will make it all harder and more painful later on. If you feel none of this applies to you, remember that back then I didn't think it applied to me either. It's an automatic reaction that is uncontrollable. Your childhood experiences will effect every aspect of your life forever and it's always worth discussing them with a counselor.

[drifter777]

I have asked her. She has told me some. But she really hates talking about it. And I'm sure she minimizes and does damage control.

 

Same with my WW. When I was finally ready to face it I heard the same crap. I needed to know and made sure she realized that she help me by opening up or I was going to leave. I also assured her that if she did help me I still might leave, but there was a chance we could survive.

 

She hates talking about it because it makes her face the fact that she was a selfish, hurtful, uncaring person. No one likes to think of themselves in that way. She minimizes because she believes if you know the truth you will leave. In her mind it is a sure thing so she feels she cannot tell you. Although you will never get the truth - a cheating wife will NEVER reveal the whole truth - she does owe you lots of facts and much of the truth. You should tell her what you need and that you expect her to help you recover from her betrayal. Make her understand that it is vitally important to you and you might be able to get her to open up over time.

[Crusoe]

I'm a male BS that is trying to understand the point of view of my WW and her OM/MM. I've seen some of you posting how you found reading the OW/OM threads helpful. I've been over there a few times and not found much of interest. Maybe some of you could post some links to old thread you found interesting?

 

 

If I were you, I would open the door, drop kick her into the gutter and not waste another second of your life trying to understand the mind of liars and cheaters.

[Steadfast]

If I were you, I would open the door, drop kick her into the gutter and not waste another second of your life trying to understand the mind of liars and cheaters.

 

That's exactly where I'm at when it comes to cheating. A zero tolerance policy. If more people knew cheating would absolutely, positively end their marriage, there's no doubt many (most?) wouldn't do it.

 

You're seeing one...two, three therapists? Taking meds? What is she doing, her nails? This is all wrong...all mixed up. Cut your losses. If she experiences an epiphany of her own and wants to salvage the relationship, then you might have something to work with. Her making the effort. You have to love and respect yourself before anyone else can. Devotion is reserved for the honest and faithful partner. There isn't too much you can do to show appreciation for someone who truly loves you. The cheater has flushed this trust, so send her away with the rest of the waste water.

 

There IS a logical thought process there. One can construct each crossroad and understand, to some degree, why your WW made the decisions she made. You DID influence that faulty thought process. So ask.

 

Bullcrap. All you're communicating to the cheater is that you are desperate enough to take (all or part of) the blame for their actions. This accomplishes nothing and in fact, takes the relationship backwards. There's always something to point at for justification. Ten...twenty things. Don't reward bad with good. Reward good with better. That's a good marriage. That's a happy couple.

Edited December 24, 2012 by Steadfast

[Crusoe]

That's exactly where I'm at when it comes to cheating. A zero tolerance policy. If more people knew cheating would absolutely, positively end their marriage, there's no doubt many (most?) wouldn't do it.

 

You're seeing one...two, three therapists? Taking meds? What is she doing, her nails? This is all wrong...all mixed up. Cut your losses. If she experiences an epiphany of her own and wants to salvage the relationship, then you might have something to work with. Her making the effort. You have to love and respect yourself before anyone else can. Devotion is reserved for the honest and faithful partner. There isn't too much you can do to show appreciation for someone who truly loves you. The cheater has flushed this trust, so send her away with the rest of the waste water.

 

 

 

Bullcrap. All you're communicating to the cheater is that you are desperate enough to take (all or part of) the blame for their actions. This accomplishes nothing and in fact, takes the relationship backwards. There's always something to point at for justification. Ten...twenty things. Don't reward bad with good. Reward good with better. That's a good marriage. That's a happy couple.

 

Yup, well said.

 

There's a point where understanding becomes it's own disease.

[GLDheart]

...Bullcrap. All you're communicating to the cheater is that you are desperate enough to take (all or part of) the blame for their actions...

 

AMEN.

 

Cheating is a whole new layer of wrong. I truly feel like if there is any hope for the relationship, first you need to re-establish honesty and clear away the mess that cheating made... and get to the root of that problem. You really need to dig down through that layer of chaos that the cheating unleashed.

 

THEN, and only then maybe you can work on the relationship issues. If that first mess can't be cleaned up and trust re-established, do the (now paling in comparison and minor) other relationship issues even matter? Not to me. Without the re-estblished trust, who gives a rats a$$ if you didn't help enough with the dishes or bring home flowers enough or whatever enough...

 

It's like an argument fighting over spending time at wich set of in-laws over the holidays that degenerates into physical abuse... uhmmm.... I suddenly don't care about the damn holidays!! You just hit me?!?

 

It's adding a whole new layer of B$ that now needs to be fixed first.

Edited December 24, 2012 by GLDheart

[CantgetoveritNY]

Great post.

 

I too thought my wife was incapable of betraying my trust and stabbing me in the heart. I was in denial for years while I stuffed the whole thing into the back of my mind. I never had the epiphany you refer to, but I finally accepted that she was the kind of person who could and did devastate me like she did and that my decision to stay for the kids was wrong. I owed her the same level of hurt and swore vengeance once the kids were grown. During those years she proved, by real actions, that she was no longer that person. She eventually showed true remorse and was genially ashamed of what she did. I finally realized that I did not want to hurt the woman she had become and that it was ok for me to hate the woman she was and what she did. I worked to forgive but only reached acceptance; and that will have to be good enough.

 

I still see a counselor and have recently had a different kind of epiphany. While I understand that the way you grow up and your family of origin has a tremendous impact on your ability to forgive, it also impacts the depth of pain that you feel when you are betrayed. I was physically and mentally abused growing up and I learned to believe that I was fundamentally a bad person. I was unlovable. To survive I had to pretend I was a different person - a better person - in order to be loved. I lived in constant fear that people would find out that I didn't deserve to be loved, so when anyone betrayed me I knew that I had been found out; that I deserved it. The horrible pain of betrayal crushed me and mind reacted with overwhelming shame that the real me had been revealed. I was terrified that everyone would find out that I was the kind of person someone would do this to so I worked desperately to cover up what had happened to me. To share the truth and depth of my pain meant revealing the betrayal and that I was truly worthless.

 

By the time I was a young adult this behavior was automatic; uncontrollable. When my wife betrayed me I knew I deserved it the overwhelming shame I felt triggered my defense mechanism and it kicked in to protect me. It cause me to do everything I possibly could to minimize it, hide it, and stuff it away in my mind where it could get lost and just go away. The problem was that my mind was so full of hurt and betrayal that it couldn't hold everything in forever and eventually I had to face it and work through it. I did the vast majority of this work before I understood why it took so long to truly feel the pain she caused and understand that I didn't deserve it and I shouldn't have worked so hard to smooth things over back then.

 

I am not the only person who was abused as a child and learned a defense mechanism that served me well back then but could not work when I reached adulthood. I am motivated to share my story with other BS's because many of them are not facing their true feelings now which will make it all harder and more painful later on. If you feel none of this applies to you, remember that back then I didn't think it applied to me either. It's an automatic reaction that is uncontrollable. Your childhood experiences will effect every aspect of your life forever and it's always worth discussing them with a counselor.

 

This is all interesting. I do think this may apply to me. In some way. I want no one to know what happened. I've told almost no one. I might be stuffing some feelings. I think I fully feel the pain. What I'm missing is anger. I have some but noting like other here express.

 

I don't know if any of this has to do with my childhood though. I'm in IC.

[drifter777]

This is all interesting. I do think this may apply to me. In some way. I want no one to know what happened. I've told almost no one. I might be stuffing some feelings. I think I fully feel the pain. What I'm missing is anger. I have some but noting like other here express.

 

I don't know if any of this has to do with my childhood though. I'm in IC.

 

Anger as a missing component is a red flag to me. Right now it is too difficult to accept that she could treat you like garbage and you are working desperately to hide it all and just make things ok so you can feel better. When you truly acknowledge how much her betrayal has hurt you - and you will - the anger will come.

 

You will face the truth and feel the full weight of her cheating when you are ready. Until then it will leak out in direct and indirect ways because it is too horrible to stay locked away. Work with your counselor as it can help you prepare for what's ahead.