Dating Is Funny

[MrCastle]

Back in my not so successful days, all I wanted was a girlfriend. It was my world. Dating a pretty girl, having sex, it was like oxygen for me. Oxygen I wasn't getting. Then as I matured, I realized it's insignificant and trivial to base your entire life around your romantic experiences (or lack thereof) and so I began to focus more on myself, other interests, etc.

 

And that's when the girls started coming.

 

How do we explain this dynamic? Why is it that the ones who try the hardest get the least amount of success and those that don't try, or don't think about it get all the success?

 

This is the opposite of everything else in life. Life teaches you to work hard and you will acheive your goals. You don't get what you want by slacking off. The harder you work, the better chances you have for success.

 

If you want to be an athlete, you have to train rigorously, punish your body. Push yourself to the limit. You don't sit at home watching a football game eating doritos and say "I want to be an athlete when I'm older".

 

If you want to move up in your job, you have to make sacrifices. Sit through every painfully boring meeting. Resist the urge to call out. Go the distance. You don't do a half ass job and move up the ladder.

 

Why is dating success so different? Do we just not like to see people working hard for it? Are we put off? Do we subconciously think there must be something wrong with people who have to try to be successful? What is this phenomenon?

[Els]

It's not that you weren't trying. It's that the best way to increase your chances of getting a partner is to work on yourself. Tunnel-vision focusing on getting a gf and nothing else is equivalent to obsessing over a particular job application, re-reading your CV 10,000 times and then waiting by the phone every minute to see if you got a call. Sure, writing your CV well helps, but it's more important to actually, y'know, have stuff that goes on it. An education. Experience. Same goes to you and dating. I'd wager that after you shifted your focus, you began working more vigorously on other aspects of your life, which makes a person a lot more attractive.

[plainjane79]

I think improving other aspects of your life is like having "game" naturally. It's the difference between sitting by your phone waiting for it to ring but not answering for the sake of seeming cool, and being at the gym when the phone rings so you aren't actually around to answer it at the moment. I think the latter promotes more natural, genuine interactions than the former and the opposite sex can just sense it. Having a life outside of dating also makes it easier to meet people and get more dates, gives you things to discuss on dates and even things to DO on dates, so it makes you more interesting and more self assured.

[MrCastle]

It's not that you weren't trying. It's that the best way to increase your chances of getting a partner is to work on yourself. Tunnel-vision focusing on getting a gf and nothing else is equivalent to obsessing over a particular job application, re-reading your CV 10,000 times and then waiting by the phone every minute to see if you got a call. Sure, writing your CV well helps, but it's more important to actually, y'know, have stuff that goes on it. An education. Experience. Same goes to you and dating. I'd wager that after you shifted your focus, you began working more vigorously on other aspects of your life, which makes a person a lot more attractive.

 

Agreed, but why is that so different from other aspects of life? If you want to be good at something you weren't naturally good at, you have to eat sleep and breathe it. You have to devise a gameplan of how you're going to acheive your goal, and then execute. You don't stumble into success by ignoring your goal. In dating though, it's different. When I stopped doing things just for the chance to get laid, and instead lived my life for me, I got laid! What is that?? If I wanted a job promotion I certainly couldn't ignore my employee duties to better my chances.

[Harradin]

I found it happens when you least expect it, not when you don't try. In my case, I never tried to get a girlfriend, I wanted to get with girls, I wasn't interested in a relationship and only got with a couple of girls but didn't go anywhere.

 

I then gave up caring, and lived life how I wanted to live it, 6 months go by and a girl walks into my life who I fall for near enough instantly. If I thought of 1001 possibilities at the time, I wouldn't have imagined that she'd walk into my life, and ended up starting a relationship with her as the feelings were mutual.

[MrCastle]

I think improving other aspects of your life is like having "game" naturally. It's the difference between sitting by your phone waiting for it to ring but not answering for the sake of seeming cool, and being at the gym when the phone rings so you aren't actually around to answer it at the moment. I think the latter promotes more natural, genuine interactions than the former and the opposite sex can just sense it. Having a life outside of dating also makes it easier to meet people and get more dates, gives you things to discuss on dates and even things to DO on dates, so it makes you more interesting and more self assured.

 

Yeah I don't understand this. There have been times when I'd try to game a girl and play cool so I'd ignore her texts. It wouldn't get me very far. Then there were times where I was legit busy and missed her message and she'd eat it up. I sometimes question if women really do have a sixth sense for smelling phoniness. But then that wouldn't explain why they get duped by the "bad boy" constantly.

[mesmerized]

meh this is not true for me at all and for most girls I know. Every girl friend of mine that hasn't put any effort into dating is single and not meeting anyone. Might be our demographics.

[Els]

Agreed, but why is that so different from other aspects of life? If you want to be good at something you weren't naturally good at, you have to eat sleep and breathe it. You have to devise a gameplan of how you're going to acheive your goal, and then execute. You don't stumble into success by ignoring your goal. In dating though, it's different. When I stopped doing things just for the chance to get laid, and instead lived my life for me, I got laid! What is that?? If I wanted a job promotion I certainly couldn't ignore my employee duties to better my chances.

 

My personal belief is that it isn't really different from other aspects of life. I don't think it's healthy to 'eat sleep and breathe' something, anything. For instance, if you were gunning for a particular position, you ignore your health, ignore your family, ignore your friends, don't bother that you're getting obese and sloppy, don't bother to socialize with anyone within the company or to take any time off to relax, but just tunnel-vision your work... you're not very likely to succeed in the long term.

 

Obviously, some things are more successfully tunnel-visioned than others, with work being OK (but still requiring some balance IMO), and dating being less OK, but the key issue is that working on yourself IS the key to being a good partner. Nobody wants to be with someone whose sole goal in life is to have a girlfriend, because not only is there immense pressure to fill all that void in their life, but they also tend to be extremely uninteresting and not attractive (because they're not devoting any energy to working on themselves). It would be like being the caretaker of a paralyzed person whose wellbeing is solely dependent on you.

[MrCastle]

My personal belief is that it isn't really different from other aspects of life. I don't think it's healthy to 'eat sleep and breathe' something, anything. For instance, if you were gunning for a particular position, you ignore your health, ignore your family, ignore your friends, don't bother that you're getting obese and sloppy, don't bother to socialize with anyone within the company or to take any time off to relax, but just tunnel-vision your work... you're not very likely to succeed in the long term.

 

Obviously, some things are more successfully tunnel-visioned than others, with work being OK (but still requiring some balance IMO), and dating being less OK, but the key issue is that working on yourself IS the key to being a good partner. Nobody wants to be with someone whose sole goal in life is to have a girlfriend, because not only is there immense pressure to fill all that void in their life, but they also tend to be extremely uninteresting and not attractive (because they're not devoting any energy to working on themselves). It would be like being the caretaker of a paralyzed person whose wellbeing is solely dependent on you.

 

Well, yeah. I mean other areas of your life will be affected, but the goal will be met. For example, the athlete thing. You push yourself, you give it your all, you improve your chances of making it pro. Sure, maybe your friendships and romantic relationships become strained as a result, but your goal of becoming an athlete has been met.

 

Dating is different. If you try hard, you more often than not do not benefit from doing everything and anything to be successful.

 

At least in other examples, you work hard, your chance to succeed improves, regardless of how other areas of your life hold up.

[Million.to.1]

Mr Castle... To be good at having an actual relationship does take dedication, hard-work, sacrifices, and all those 'goal' orientated things like other aspects of life.

I agree that having lot's of personal interests and a life outside of dating will indeed help you to get more dates, but that's just the start. That's like getting the job interview. You still have to get the job, get to know it, learn about it, put time and energy into it get better at it, be good at it for long enough before you're up for the promotion. .. and hopefully having fun while doing it!

 

Starting a relationship is easy. But it takes alot of effort to build a life with someone you love.

 

I think love takes just as much work as anything else in life. The more you put in, the more you get back.

[Els]

I don't really see the discrepancy. The best way to 'try hard' in dating is to work on yourself. You inadvertently found the best way by focusing on other aspects of your life. Trying doesn't necessarily mean bull-headed ramming.

[MrCastle]

Mr Castle... To be good at having an actual relationship does take dedication, hard-work, sacrifices, and all those 'goal' orientated things like other aspects of life.

I agree that having lot's of personal interests and a life outside of dating will indeed help you to get more dates, but that's just the start. That's like getting the job interview. You still have to get the job, get to know it, learn about it, put time and energy into it get better at it, be good at it for long enough before you're up for the promotion. .. and hopefully having fun while doing it!

 

Starting a relationship is easy. But it takes alot of effort to build a life with someone you love.

 

I think love takes just as much work as anything else in life. The more you put in, the more you get back.

 

Agreed, what I should have said was, with dating, I meant "casual sex with multiple women". I agree big time that relationships are no joke and require more work than some people choose to admit, or are willing to put in, which is why many are unsuccessful and why I am staying away from them for now.

[MrCastle]

I don't really see the discrepancy. The best way to 'try hard' in dating is to work on yourself. You inadvertently found the best way by focusing on other aspects of your life. Trying doesn't necessarily mean bull-headed ramming.

 

Work on yourself but for the sake of doing it for you.

 

When I tried "working on myself" for the sake of having sex, I failed.

 

When I said "screw it, I'm doing what I want, for myself", I saw success.

[Imajerk17]

You know, I see what you are saying but I'm not sure I agree with this.

 

I can think of a lot of ways putting effort into dating will work out.

 

--I put effort into planning the first date for one thing, because otherwise things will be left to chance, and we know how well that works out. Bad logistics such as rectangular tables where you are sitting across from each other the long way can screw you up. (A lot of places I'm telling you, the people who designed the seat layout have no clue or interest in helping along a first date.)

 

--If I am into someone I make returning their phone calls and texts quickly a higher priority. I do online dating and if I am into someone their email usually gets returned within 12 hours. And that's smart. Don't you like it when someone is going the extra effort for you?

 

--I put in the time and energy to learn good conversational skills and body language. From studying PUA to doing cold approaches to learning from each date I go on.

 

--And yes, the energy I put into other areas of my life carries over into the dating world. Stories of a life well-lived carry over into dating.

 

 

And I think "wanting it too bad" can hurt you in other areas of life. Ever freeze up in an exam and then the answer came to you 10 minutes after your exam was over? Ever see a basketball team "play really tight" and lose their lead in a big game? It's often because they're so scared of losing that this is what happens.

 

So I think there are more similarities than differences. It's really about both wanting it AND knowing truthfully you're prepared to get it. Smart preparations behind the scenes (studying, practicing hard, developing yourself into a compelling individual) and then relaxing when the big exam/game/date comes because you know you know the material well/are ready to win/are ready for the write person and you know how to show it, is really what it is all about. One guru calls it Deserving What You Want.

Edited December 21, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Els]

Work on yourself but for the sake of doing it for you.

 

When I tried "working on myself" for the sake of having sex, I failed.

 

When I said "screw it, I'm doing what I want, for myself", I saw success.

 

Ah, I see what you mean. Yes, it is slightly ironic in that sense. Like orgasming and sleeping, I suppose. The harder you try to focus on 'the goal', the less likely you are to succeed. But there are other ways to 'try'. Sometimes 'try' means 'try not to focus on it', I guess.

[plainjane79]

Yeah I don't understand this. There have been times when I'd try to game a girl and play cool so I'd ignore her texts. It wouldn't get me very far. Then there were times where I was legit busy and missed her message and she'd eat it up. I sometimes question if women really do have a sixth sense for smelling phoniness. But then that wouldn't explain why they get duped by the "bad boy" constantly.

 

I don't know if the situation is the same for you...but for me, when I was focusing on getting a guy and ignoring texts/calls, I wasn't really paying attention to much else. So when we DID talk, I was completely unable to talk about much of anything. I just wasn't focusing on reading the paper, training for a triathlon, watching a new movie, whatever. So when we DID talk, it was just blah.

 

When I had stuff to do and missed a call, I could call when I saw it and just be like "Hey! Saw you called....was out doing a 10 mile run...yeah I've got this sprint triathlon I'm training for in a month, you ever do a triathlon? etc. etc." Arguably interesting, care-free conversation ensues, without any guilt about lying/lack of genuine conversation material to make things boring or awkward.

[edgygirl]

My main question for you is: how can you be sure you'll know how to be in a relationship when that amazing girl you want comes along? Relationships are like everything in life, we need to train to become good at them. If you don't train, and only have fwb and ONS and whatnot, how will you know how to be a good partner when the special girl gets in the picture?

 

I know because I was like you, I put relationships in second place when I was younger, to develop my career, and I see that people who had more LTR than me knew how to navigate a real relationship better than I did when my time came. I regret a little my self righteousness in thinking I'd knew how to be a good partner when the time came. That's the problem with youth... we think we are so smart that we'll know how to do it all until life comes and slams you in the head.

 

I wish I wasn't so averse to being in a relationship when I was younger. I wished I learned more through experience. FWB doesn't give you that kind of experience. Just sayin'.

 

Agreed, what I should have said was, with dating, I meant "casual sex with multiple women". I agree big time that relationships are no joke and require more work than some people choose to admit, or are willing to put in, which is why many are unsuccessful and why I am staying away from them for now.

[plainjane79]

meh this is not true for me at all and for most girls I know. Every girl friend of mine that hasn't put any effort into dating is single and not meeting anyone. Might be our demographics.

 

I definitely think you've got to be aware that you're ready to be in a relationship and put yourself in situations that are conducive to finding one. For example, if I'm serious about finding a boyfriend, I'm probably going to choose Salsa Dancing over Girl's Knitting Circle as my Saturday evening self-improvement activity of choice. I'm also going to probably be going out to singles happy hours and signing up for a few dating sites as well...places where I can work on my social skills and meet new friends/business contacts while putting myself out there for Mr. Right to spot as well.

 

But if a person makes finding a relationship a PRIORITY, to the detriment of all other self improvement, it's probably not going to work out so well. The fun, carefree, interesting spirit that makes sought-after people so attractive seems forced and desperate in people who are doing every activity for the wrong reasons. Kind of have to focus on both as an extension of one another.

[El Brujo]

Back in my not so successful days, all I wanted was a girlfriend. It was my world. Dating a pretty girl, having sex, it was like oxygen for me. Oxygen I wasn't getting. Then as I matured, I realized it's insignificant and trivial to base your entire life around your romantic experiences (or lack thereof) and so I began to focus more on myself, other interests, etc.

 

And that's when the girls started coming.

 

How do we explain this dynamic? Why is it that the ones who try the hardest get the least amount of success and those that don't try, or don't think about it get all the success?

 

This is the opposite of everything else in life. Life teaches you to work hard and you will acheive your goals. You don't get what you want by slacking off. The harder you work, the better chances you have for success.

 

If you want to be an athlete, you have to train rigorously, punish your body. Push yourself to the limit. You don't sit at home watching a football game eating doritos and say "I want to be an athlete when I'm older".

 

If you want to move up in your job, you have to make sacrifices. Sit through every painfully boring meeting. Resist the urge to call out. Go the distance. You don't do a half ass job and move up the ladder.

 

Why is dating success so different? Do we just not like to see people working hard for it? Are we put off? Do we subconciously think there must be something wrong with people who have to try to be successful? What is this phenomenon?

 

Dating is SUPPOSED to be illogical and counterintuitive. Who'd want to date Mister Spock???

[zebracolors]

Work on yourself but for the sake of doing it for you.

 

When I tried "working on myself" for the sake of having sex, I failed.

 

When I said "screw it, I'm doing what I want, for myself", I saw success.

 

Without going into full detail of my life story, after 2 years in what I thought was a real relationship, and many more years of living in a metaphorical cave, ive decided to also stay away from serious relationships. I really feel like I'd feel, well, trapped. Even though I am 37, I feel like I need to make up for lost time, and there's still many men out there to meet, and experience to gain. Some of whom Ive already met, with some pleasant experiences, but also some unpleasant and awkward experiences. But while I work on getting my life in order, and my education I'm going to just meet people, make friends.

[sweetkiwi]

Is this like how when one guy is talking to me, three more approach. Or when a few are testing me the rest come out of the woodwork? Honestly i think most women have very natural game. At least i do. But when i actually like a guy Im a silly mumbling girl. I keep my cool but i forget all game.

[MrCastle]

My main question for you is: how can you be sure you'll know how to be in a relationship when that amazing girl you want comes along? Relationships are like everything in life, we need to train to become good at them. If you don't train, and only have fwb and ONS and whatnot, how will you know how to be a good partner when the special girl gets in the picture?

 

I know because I was like you, I put relationships in second place when I was younger, to develop my career, and I see that people who had more LTR than me knew how to navigate a real relationship better than I did when my time came. I regret a little my self righteousness in thinking I'd knew how to be a good partner when the time came. That's the problem with youth... we think we are so smart that we'll know how to do it all until life comes and slams you in the head.

 

I wish I wasn't so averse to being in a relationship when I was younger. I wished I learned more through experience. FWB doesn't give you that kind of experience. Just sayin'.

 

I believe that maturity and brains can cover up lack of experience.

 

I feel I'm at a point where I "get it". I'm not afraid of not having relationship experience. I'll learn on the fly.

[TheZebra]

Is this like how when one guy is talking to me, three more approach. Or when a few are testing me the rest come out of the woodwork? Honestly i think most women have very natural game. At least i do. But when i actually like a guy Im a silly mumbling girl. I keep my cool but i forget all game.

 

I feel ya. I can't even properly joke around. The next few hours are spent thinking about all of the things I normally would have said but was too dumbstruck to say. lol

[zebracolors]

Is this like how when one guy is talking to me, three more approach. Or when a few are testing me the rest come out of the woodwork? Honestly i think most women have very natural game. At least i do. But when i actually like a guy Im a silly mumbling girl. I keep my cool but i forget all game.

 

I feel ya. I can't even properly joke around. The next few hours are spent thinking about all of the things I normally would have said but was too dumbstruck to say. lol

 

 

You're so right Kiwi, this actually just happened to me recently with a guy at a restaurant Ive been crushing on for a while. Finally got a chance to talk to him, but wouldn't you know it, I don't know much Spanish, and he only knows very little English:o:laugh: And agreed Zebra, I show my sense of humor, but I am always thinking of things I could have said that would have been great...long after the moment has passed.

[suladas]

I believe that maturity and brains can cover up lack of experience.

 

I feel I'm at a point where I "get it". I'm not afraid of not having relationship experience. I'll learn on the fly.

 

I really doubt it, being smart only does so much in a relationship. It's something you can only learn with experience, and the older you get the more you are expected to know. A 20 year old with no dating experience is fine, a 30 year old is going to have some issues with it. A lot of people aren't willing to teach people or put up with people who don't know what they are doing. Being in your first relationship is a humbling experience, you learn a lot.