Do these men have personality disorders?

[egalew]

I understand that sometimes a man might stay in the marriage because of the kids, finances or religious reasons. But have you ever thought that the MM you're involved with may more serious emotional/psychological issues than the "average guy" (for lack of a better word)? Like narcissistic personality disorder?

 

Now that my affair is over, I see that my mm, while loving and supportive, is extremely self centered and absorbed. He also has a highly addictive personality, and and is a compulsive liar.

 

Bitter pill to swallow.

 

And your guy....

Edited December 19, 2012 by egalew
Grammatical errors

[promises]

I've been pondering this as well. There was some sort of extreme lack of empathy at times and then almost extreme empathy other times ... I don't know what that means

[Pierre]

Narcissism and cheating often go hand in hand.

 

Narcissists often appear as charming men, making them attractive while allowing them to get away with some unsavory antics under the veil of having such a "charismatic air" about them. Narcissists, when on the prowl for an extra-marital affair, will usually attract women who crave drama (i.e. The Mistress, or The Mistress in Training, *MIT*) as well as the woman who is a care-taker, the one who thinks she can 'fix him' and erase his negative traits. They also like to go for the hottest women they can find, because they believe such women will be insecure and therefore the most susceptible to their manipulative tactics!!

 

"Pillow Talk" with Sarah J. Symonds: Narcissism And The Cheating Married Man.

[carhill]

Welcome to LS

 

Mixed bag. Humans range the entire scale of sane to insane, healthy to disordered.

 

Further, their sexual proclivities can be discrete from their overall perspective on prosecuting life. One merely needs to look at the philandering US presidents for obvious guidance in such matters. Leaders of state and world, family men, cheaters. Three potentials, three compartments.

 

Men's brains are generally acknowledged to be structured and function differently than women's do, so male behavior and psychology is processed within the realm of men. Within that realm, there exists similar diseases/disorders but they generally manifest differently than in women.

 

Being self-centered and self-absorbed isn't necessarily disordered. A professional psychologist (or a team) would need to analyze behavior to make the call on that. Unhealthy and difficult to have a relationship with? Yeah, probably. Something to be aware of: Some people are 'loving' and 'supportive' to get what they want. It's transactional. How they behave otherwise that is defining, meaning when they have no wants from a particular person. The phrase I use to describe such people is 'their world is small and they fill it completely'. They will use social Astroglide, meaning socially approved behaviors and words, aka 'charm', to get what they want but otherwise it's all about them.

 

Most of the MW's I met who engaged in inappropriate sexual and emotional behaviors and who exhibited some of the signs you shared were/are also alcoholics.

 

Billions more to be served. My sympathies and best wishes in your healing.

[Spark1111]

There is a very high rate do PDs among afaires because most have an obsessive need for validation and attention.

 

The are NPD, BPD, Histrionic disorder and anti-social disorder.

 

Also, untreated bi-polars average about 14 affairs, usually during their manic cycles over the course of a marriage.

 

Not everyone with a PD has affairs. Many people in affairs can exhibit characteristics of PDs however.

 

Hard to tell without a professional diagnosis, but what would it matter? PDs are amongst the last people to seek treatment, and if they do, they are rare to change.

 

Why? It IS all about them and their pain and internal rage, confusion, and fears of abandonment.

 

Most can be extremely charming and intelligent and on their best day, seem empathetic. But they are a bottomless pit of need.

[promises]

Hmm..bi-polar.

[Spark1111]

Manic = high energy, high sexual energy, risktaking, compulsion, may spend too much, gamble, alcohol, seems strong, opinionated, self-assured.

 

Depressive- Sad, lonely, constant fatigue, possibly constant complaining, nobody loves me.

 

Treatment is best during depression. During the manic cycle, they are overly confident, almost arrogant, not prone to take advice, angry.

 

Statis (between cycling) a pretty nice person.

[rapt]

I can give you some perspective as the recovering MM.

 

I think most would agree that the A itself is a selfish act, for both parties (presuming they both know).

 

I think the addictive nature of the A also promotes the perpetuation of the selfish behavior. I know I was incredibly selfish to both my wife and my OW. It was not as apparent to me in the moment, but only in the retrospective.

 

I don't harbor a conscious resentment to women nor did I consciously go looking for an affair - I crossed a friendship boundary, in spite of what I previously felt were pretty strong principles against it (I have resisted previous temptations).

 

On the whole I don't think I am especially selfish or self-absorbed, but I do think that during the affair these qualities were amplified by the addiction and the need to perpetuate it.

[Pierre]

I can give you some perspective as the recovering MM.

 

I think most would agree that the A itself is a selfish act, for both parties (presuming they both know).

 

I think the addictive nature of the A also promotes the perpetuation of the selfish behavior. I know I was incredibly selfish to both my wife and my OW. It was not as apparent to me in the moment, but only in the retrospective.

 

I don't harbor a conscious resentment to women nor did I consciously go looking for an affair - I crossed a friendship boundary, in spite of what I previously felt were pretty strong principles against it (I have resisted previous temptations).

 

On the whole I don't think I am especially selfish or self-absorbed, but I do think that during the affair these qualities were amplified by the addiction and the need to perpetuate it.

 

Anyone can have an affair in the right situation. There is no loss of honor for that, we are humans. However, there are philanderers and folks that rationalize everything they do. Others are truly narcissistic and we have the spectrum here.

[LoveTKO]

I understand that sometimes a man might stay in the marriage because of the kids, finances or religious reasons. But have you ever thought that the MM you're involved with may more serious emotional/psychological issues than the "average guy" (for lack of a better word)? Like narcissistic personality disorder?

 

Now that my affair is over, I see that my mm, while loving and supportive, is extremely self centered and absorbed. He also has a highly addictive personality, and and is a compulsive liar.

 

Bitter pill to swallow.

 

And your guy....

 

 

So let me get this right........ now that your affair is over you have labeled him as someone afflicted with a personality disorder? Did you reach this diagnosis while you were having an affair or did it dawn on you when things went south with the relationship? If the affair resumes, or if he leaves his wife, will the diagnosis be placed on the back-burner, or will he be cured of his affliction?

[Radagast]

My counsellor considered me to be co-narcissist (also known as narcissist-codependent) but I'm not sure if that's classified as a personality disorder, or just a behavioural adaptation to a pathological relationship.

 

Co-narcissistic people... work hard to please others, defer to other’s opinions, worry about how others think and feel about them, are often depressed or anxious, find it hard to know their own views and experience, and take the blame for interpersonal problems. They fear being considered selfish if they act assertively. A high proportion of psychotherapy patients are co-narcissistic.

[jwi71]

I agree with the general sentiment of the board.

Some do and some don't.

I do believe that they do exhibit a higher than the norm (whatever the hell that is) rate of those diseases though. I will not quantify it as I don't know. I just think its higher.

 

Love my science there.

[neveragain34]

Funny that you post this today of all days. My exMM and I really got into it earlier and I told him he has narcissistic personality disorder and to get help.

 

With that being said, my research into his personality also uncovered some things about me I never thought of. I'm starting to wonder if I have Borderline Personality Disorder! Now that I read up on the different "B-types", my dysfunctional A makes sense. Something for the other OW out there to think about...

[Jeanie12]

Yes, I think they do have more issues than the average Joe!

I actually said to my MM 'you are either a pathological liar or the most selfish person I've ever met' I followed up with 'you've got more baggage than a 747', but that was just to see how he would respond. In an email to my MM before i stopped talking to him, I recounted to him the "12 Lies of <Name Here>" a la the 12 days of Christmas. The lies were indisputable and yet, he still somehow came out looking like a victim. So, do they have problems, YES. Does everyone? YES. It's how we handle them (and when we're strong enough to move on) that shows we can grow:rolleyes:

[Spark1111]

My counsellor considered me to be co-narcissist (also known as narcissist-codependent) but I'm not sure if that's classified as a personality disorder, or just a behavioural adaptation to a pathological relationship.

 

Itmeans you both had terrible childhoods in that their was a major emotional trauma, you were both were either emotional or physically abused or neglected, and the parents who were suppose to protect you and keep you save failed somehow on the job for your specific age.

 

PDs attract truamatized children. The allure is the subconscious need to save and protect each other, only you are much, much healthier than they are. It could take a lifetIme to realize that. Good luck getting away.

[Jeanie12]

Itmeans you both had terrible childhoods in that their was a major emotional trauma, you were both were either emotional or physically abused or neglected, and the parents who were suppose to protect you and keep you save failed somehow on the job for your specific age.

 

PDs attract truamatized children. The allure is the subconscious need to save and protect each other, only you are much, much healthier than they are. It could take a lifetIme to realize that. Good luck getting away.

 

Spark1111 what are your credentials?

[Radagast]

Itmeans you both had terrible childhoods in that their was a major emotional trauma, you were both were either emotional or physically abused or neglected, and the parents who were suppose to protect you and keep you save failed somehow on the job for your specific age.

 

PDs attract truamatized children. The allure is the subconscious need to save and protect each other, only you are much, much healthier than they are. It could take a lifetIme to realize that. Good luck getting away.

 

Thank you. My counselling did enable me to get away. I am now very happily remarried, and the trauma is definitely in my past.

[Mint Sauce]

I was tested during my affair (I was the MM), and came out negative on all typical disorders. During therapy, during and after the affair, it did become clear that I had been in an "emotional overload" situation for so long during my marriage, that I had partially shut down. Hence the lack of empathy, and the selfish behavior.

 

Affair fog is a common term here, but one may wonder whether the APs are not already in a fog before they enter the affair. Whether the fog is constant, i.e. a disorder, or temporary due to circumstances would then depend on the actual case.

[Spark1111]

Spark1111 what are your credentials?

 

Writer, educator and voracious reader; psychiatric studies and finding as of late.

[rapt]

On a lark, I took the Narcissist inventory here:

 

Take a personality test

 

I scored 15/40 which it said was the 62nd percentile - above average but not radically so. Apparently vanity is my biggest standout.

 

And now it's back to gazing at myself in the mirror.

[KathyM]

I think a lot of them could probably be diagnosed as NPD.

 

1. Requires excessive amount of admiration.

 

2. Lacks empathy.

 

3. Has a sense of entitlement.

 

4. Takes advantage of others.

 

5. Arrogance.

[Spark1111]

I think a lot of them could probably be diagnosed as NPD.

 

1. Requires excessive amount of admiration.

 

2. Lacks empathy.

 

3. Has a sense of entitlement.

 

4. Takes advantage of others.

 

5. Arrogance.

 

To a degree, self- love is mentally healthy. Certainly healthier than self-loathing!

 

SO even if not classically NPD,a very difficult diagnosis to make, by the way, MANY who engage in affairs will exhibit NPD traits during an affair.

[KathyM]

To a degree, self- love is mentally healthy. Certainly healthier than self-loathing!

 

SO even if not classically NPD,a very difficult diagnosis to make, by the way, MANY who engage in affairs will exhibit NPD traits during an affair.

Self love IS mentally healthy, but a narcissist has an EXCESSIVE need for admiration. All it takes is having five out of nine criteria for someone to be able to be diagnosed as having NPD. I didn't list the other four, since the ones I listed are typical of MM, and those five I listed would qualify him to be diagnosed with NPD. But it would have to be an engrained part of his personality. Long standing. Not just a few month stint with a character unlike his normal traits.

[Pierre]

Self love IS mentally healthy, but a narcissist has an EXCESSIVE need for admiration. All it takes is having five out of nine criteria for someone to be able to be diagnosed as having NPD. I didn't list the other four, since the ones I listed are typical of MM, and those five I listed would qualify him to be diagnosed with NPD. But it would have to be an engrained part of his personality. Long standing. Not just a few month stint with a character unlike his normal traits.

 

The symptom that seems to be more damaging in those having affairs is the lack of empathy. A bit of self love is harmless, but lack of empathy is deadly and both can be symptoms of NPD.

 

This board is full of OWs that openly express no guilt regarding the poor BW.

[Decorative]

My spouse was originally diagnosed as a borderline when he entered post affair counseling. A high functioning borderline, but a borderline, just the same. He has learned a huge amount of different coping skills since then, and works hard at staying healthy.